Taliban Declares Victory

[High_Gravity]

Taliban Declares Victory, as Fighting Goes On

KABUL, Afghanistan — Mullah Muhammad Omar, the Taliban’s one-eyed leader, seems to have taken a page from George W. Bush’s playbook.

Just as the former president declared “mission accomplished” in Iraq years before the war there ended, the Taliban made their own victory declaration this weekend, even though roughly 130,000 coalition troops were still fighting in Afghanistan — and keeping the Afghan government firmly in power.

No matter, suggested the Taliban, which calls itself the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, in a statement bluntly titled: “Formal Proclamation of Islamic Emirate’s Victory.” The American push to open talks is proof that the insurgents are winning, the Taliban reasoned.

“It is but sheer determination, religious and ideological adherence and unequalled sacrifices displayed by true Afghan Mujahid nation for the last decade that today regional and world powers are after to reach mutual understanding about the country,” the statement said in the Taliban’s typically fractured English.

The coalition declined to comment on the Taliban’s statement.

Most American and Afghan officials would surely dispute the Taliban’s logic. But taken as a statement of intent, the Taliban’s declaration offers an instructive glimpse into their thinking. For them, a seat across the table from the Americans – and, if a settlement is reached, a formal role in the Afghan government — may be the victory they’ve been fighting for.

That fight looks set to go on for at least a few more years. The combat role for the American-led coalition is not set to conclude until the end of 2014, and Western officials say they expect trainers and special operations to remain in Afghanistan for years afterward. In the meantime, both the Taliban and the coalition have made it clear they plan to keep fighting, even as they start talking.

Few here believe the Taliban, armed mostly with rifles, rocket-propelled grenades and roadside bombs, have any chance of overcoming the foreign and Afghan forces arrayed against them. Even former Taliban officials who now live in Kabul but maintain contact with their former compatriots say the insurgents know an outright victory on the battlefield is a near impossibility in the foreseeable future.

Rather, they say, the Taliban have been fighting for precisely what is now unfolding: the opening of talks as a prelude to the withdrawal of American and allied troops. The Americans, for their part, say they’ve been fighting for the same.

But for the Taliban, the move toward talks nonetheless appears to be a chance to take a rhetorical victory lap and score a few propaganda points with ordinary Afghans, the vast majority of whom are tired of war and more inclined to see the talks as a sign of American weakness and insurgent strength than the other way around.

That is sentiment the Taliban are eager to promote, as evidenced by their statement, which was posted on their official Web site late Sunday in English and Pashto, one of Afghanistan’s major languages. It was the first time the Taliban were known to have declared victory, although they have been predicting it for years. The statement is signed with only the name “Khapalwak,” though the content for the Web site is believed to be approved at the highest levels of the group.

“The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan showed it openly to the world that it is a well-organized political power besides being a military power,” the statement said. “The invading countries of Afghanistan are compelled to review their policies by looking into the military and political determination, unity, organization and unshakeable stance of the Islamic Emirate.”

The Taliban held up the choice of Qatar as the location for the talks, and for an office, soon to be opened, for the insurgents, as added evidence that it was winning the war in Afghanistan.

President Hamid Karzai’s government — often referred to by the insurgents as a “stooge” or “puppet” administration — wanted the office to be in Saudi Arabia or Turkey and only reluctantly agreed to Qatar under pressure from the Americans. “But Qatar having balance relations with all sides and a prestigious status in the Islamic world is the most appropriate place for this kind of office,” the statement said.

There is, however, one issue not addressed in the statement: Are the Taliban sincere about negotiating an end to the war in Afghanistan? Or are they just waiting for 2014, thinking they can eventually overcome Afghan forces once most of the foreign troops are gone?

Taliban Declares Victory, as Fighting Goes On - NYTimes.com

 

[Katzndogz]

Did they not demand that our soldiers be punished for pissing on Taliban bodies? And Hillary profusely apologized and promised swift and severe punishment. Is not obama engaging in peace talks and negotiations with them?

From their point of view, they have surely won.

 

[High_Gravity]

Did they not demand that our soldiers be punished for pissing on Taliban bodies? And Hillary profusely apologized and promised swift and severe punishment. Is not obama engaging in peace talks and negotiations with them?

From their point of view, they have surely won.

Their organization is in tact and they didn't have to change any of their radical backwards policies or give up anything, yes they did win.

 

[SillyWabbit]

Did anyone not see this coming?
News flash: everyone who's tried to control Afghanistan--and who's not from there--gets their ass kicked.
"Thanks for coming fellas. Thanks for the weapons. We can use them on the next bunch of assholes who try to fuck with us. Thanks again. Peace "

 

[Katzndogz]

The last civilization imposed on Afghanistan was Alexander the Great. He did it by killing everyone until they shaped up.

 

[High_Gravity]

The last civilization imposed on Afghanistan was Alexander the Great. He did it by killing everyone until they shaped up.

Staying there to rebuild their fucking country was a mistake, they are not interested in the advancements we could have given them, they are perfectly fine living in mud huts, fucking goats and beating the living shit out of their women.

 

[Katzndogz]

They could have stayed there just like that forever, had they just stayed in Afghanistan and not become a training ground for terrorist distribution.

The mistake was in assuming that the people wanted to use the democratic process for electing leadership for the same bests interests that we think are best interests.

 

[Sunni Man]

The Afghans have been fighting invaders for millinia.

Long before they embraced Islam as their religion.

It is in their DNA

We are just the most recent in a long line of invaders who found out the hard way that Afghans will always refuse to be subdued or occupied.

They should be admired for their courage and adherence to their cultural past.

 

[Katzndogz]

There isn't a whole lot to be proud of as far as cultural past goes. They have no art, music, inventions, philosophies or anything else that would speak to "culture". They have some creative ways of bloodletting.

This doesn't mean that someone has the right to march in there and impose an alien and unwanted civilization on them. Because whatever they practice as a culture is so barbaric it is incumbent on other countries to protect themselves from the spread of cultural murder. Afghanistan needs more than non-interference, it needs or perhaps a better statement would be that others need Afghanistan to be in quarantine.

 

[Sunni Man]

There isn't a whole lot to be proud of as far as cultural past goes. They have no art, music, inventions, philosophies or anything else that would speak to "culture".

You just made on of the all time dumest posts at USMB

Afghanistan has a long history of arts and culture.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRpIFIYix9g]Afghani Music Melody of Rubab instrument (Attan Traditional Dance Melody) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Katzndogz]

You are not aware that the Taliban prohibited both music and art.

Okay, but no Afghanistan has never had noteworthy art or music although the people were at one time capable of making sounds and rudimentary pictures. They certainly aren't noted for that any longer.

Don't feel bad. The same circumstance existed among the Natives of America. The Hopi and Navajo have always been noted for their magnificent works of art. The Mohawk and the Blackfoot not so much, even though the Mohawk and Blackfoot made pots and wove blankets, they were in no way "art".

Afghanistan is toxic, its people are infectious. They need to be left alone in quarantine.

 

[Sunni Man]

You are not aware that the Taliban prohibited both music and art.

The Taliban are against Western art and music.

Not traditional Afghan art and music.

They do not want trash like Lady Gaga and pornography polluting their country.

And I don't blame them one bit for not wanting it poisoning peoples minds.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The Afghans have been fighting invaders for millinia.

Long before they embraced Islam as their religion.

It is in their DNA

We are just the most recent in a long line of invaders who found out the hard way that Afghans will always refuse to be subdued or occupied.

They should be admired for their courage and adherence to their cultural past.

If your officer's dead and the sergeants look white,
Remember it's ruin to run from a fight:
So take open order, lie down, and sit tight,
And wait for supports like a soldier.
Wait, wait, wait like a soldier . . .

When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
So-oldier of the Queen!
Rudyard Kipling

 

[Katzndogz]

Inside the Taliban

The Taliban banned music and dancing, shut down movie theaters and television stations, destroyed public works of art that depicted living beings, and forbade the consumption of alcoholic beverages. Men were ordered to grow full, untrimmed beards (in accordance with orthodox Islam) and were rounded up and beaten with sticks in an effort to force prayer in the mosques. The Taliban strongly enforced the ancient custom of purdah, the veiling and seclusion of women from men. Women were ordered to cover themselves from head to toe in burkas (long, tentlike veils). Girls’ schools were closed, and women were forbidden to work outside their homes. As a result, hospitals lost almost all their staffs and children in orphanages were abandoned. In a country where hundreds of thousands of men had been killed in warfare, widows found themselves unable to work to provide basic necessities for their families.

The Taliban religious police enforced the new rules and punished anyone found disobeying. They inflicted many of the punishments on the spot, usually ruthlessly, without offering the offender any sort of judicial hearing. The Taliban allowed public beatings and stonings, sometimes fatal, of women who violated the dress code or were escorted by men not related to them. Any person found not praying at the required times was imprisoned. The Taliban leaders also mandated specific punishments for other types of crimes. They made murder, adultery, and drug dealing punishable by death, and theft punishable by amputation of the hand. Many of the Taliban laws and punishments alarmed human-rights groups and provoked worldwide condemnation.

 

[High_Gravity]

There isn't a whole lot to be proud of as far as cultural past goes. They have no art, music, inventions, philosophies or anything else that would speak to "culture". They have some creative ways of bloodletting.

This doesn't mean that someone has the right to march in there and impose an alien and unwanted civilization on them. Because whatever they practice as a culture is so barbaric it is incumbent on other countries to protect themselves from the spread of cultural murder. Afghanistan needs more than non-interference, it needs or perhaps a better statement would be that others need Afghanistan to be in quarantine.

Actually Afghanistan wasn't always like this, before the Soviets invaded they had a pretty nice culture there. Women were not required to cover from head to toe and they were allowed to work and go to school alongside men.

Once the Soviets invaded and Afghanistan was flooded with Islamic Militants from around the globe, the culture in the country completely changed. They have been at war for almost 30 years straight.

 

[High_Gravity]

You are not aware that the Taliban prohibited both music and art.

The Taliban are against Western art and music.

Not traditional Afghan art and music.

They do not want trash like Lady Gaga and pornography polluting their country.

And I don't blame them one bit for not wanting it poisoning peoples minds.

Actually the Taliban don't allow ANY art or music, they consider it haram and a distraction from Islam.

 

[Sunni Man]

You are not aware that the Taliban prohibited both music and art.

The Taliban are against Western art and music.

Not traditional Afghan art and music.

They do not want trash like Lady Gaga and pornography polluting their country.

And I don't blame them one bit for not wanting it poisoning peoples minds.

Actually the Taliban don't allow ANY art or music, they consider it haram and a distraction from Islam.

Islam allows music played on certain instruments and art that does not display people or animals.

If the Taliban disallows these then they do not know their religion.

 

[High_Gravity]

The Taliban are against Western art and music.

Not traditional Afghan art and music.

They do not want trash like Lady Gaga and pornography polluting their country.

And I don't blame them one bit for not wanting it poisoning peoples minds.

Actually the Taliban don't allow ANY art or music, they consider it haram and a distraction from Islam.

Islam allows music played on certain instruments and art that does not display people or animals.

If the Taliban disallows these then they do not know their religion.

Thats the thing, the Taliban are not following Islam the right way, if anything they make it look bad and people think all Muslims are like this. Most Muslim countries have no problem with art or music.

 

[High_Gravity]

Taliban Will Control Afghanistan With Support From Pakistan, Says Leaked Report

KABUL, Feb 1 (Reuters) - The U.S. military said in a secret report the Taliban, backed by Pakistan, are set to retake control of Afghanistan after NATO-led forces withdraw from the country, raising the prospect of a major failure of western policy after a costly war.

Lieutenant Colonel Jimmie Cummings, a spokesman for the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force, confirmed the existence of the document, reported by Britain's Times newspaper and the BBC. But he said it was not a strategic study.

"The classified document in question is a compilation of Taliban detainee opinions," he said. "It's not an analysis, nor is it meant to be considered an analysis."

Nevertheless, it could be interpreted as a damning assessment of the war, now dragging into its eleventh year and aimed at blocking a Taliban return to power.

It could also be seen as an admission of defeat and could reinforce the view of Taliban hardliners that they should not negotiate with the United States and President Hamid Karzai's unpopular government while in a position of strength.

The U.S. military said in the document Pakistan's powerful Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) security agency was assisting the Taliban in directing attacks against foreign forces.

The allegation drew a strong response from Pakistani Foreign Ministry spokesman Abdul Basit. "This is frivolous, to put it mildly," he told Reuters. "We are committed to non-interference in Afghanistan."

The Times said the "highly classified" report was put together by the U.S. military at Bagram air base in Afghanistan for top NATO officers last month.

Large swathes of Afghanistan have been handed back to Afghan security forces, with the last foreign combat troops due to leave by the end of 2014.

But many Afghans doubt their security forces will be able to take firm control of one of the world's most volatile countries once foreign combat troops leave.

The document may leave some policy makers in Washington wondering whether the war was worth the steep cost in human lives and funding.

As of late January, 1,889 U.S. soldiers had been killed in Afghanistan in a conflict launched after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks that has drained almost half a trillion dollars from U.S. coffers.

"The unfortunate reality is that this is a failure of the allied strategy in Afghanistan. They have not been able to achieve the goals they set out to achieve," said Mahmud Durrani, a former Pakistan army general and ambassador to Washington.

Fresh accusations of Pakistani collusion with the Taliban will likely further strain ties between Western powers and Islamabad, which has long denied backing militants seeking to topple the U.S.-backed government in Kabul.

Critics say Pakistan uses militant groups as proxies to counter the growing influence of rival India in Afghanistan. The belief that Pakistan supports the insurgents is widely held in Afghanistan.

"It is obvious that the Taliban get support from Pakistan, but I don't think that as soon as foreign troops leave they will return to power," said Afghan telecommunications worker Farid Ahmad Totakhil.

"It would be a mistake now for the international community to leave Afghanistan, and drop us in a dark ocean," he said.

Pakistani Foreign Minister Hina Rabbani Khar was visiting Kabul on Wednesday on a mission to repair strained and to meet Karzai to discuss possible peace talks with the Taliban.

Taliban Will Control Afghanistan With Support From Pakistan, Says Leaked Report

 

[High_Gravity]

Afghanistan War: NATO Ministers Mull Drawdown

BRUSSELS — NATO's top official joined the U.S. and France on Thursday in calling for Afghan forces to take the lead in all combat operations by mid-2013, while continuing to assist them in fighting the Taliban.

Both U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta and French President Nicolas Sarkozy have suggested in recent days that the coalition should gradually transition out of combat in 2013. Government forces are supposed to assume responsibility for the war at the end of 2014, when the coalition is expected to end its participation in the war.

The 2014 date was adopted by NATO leaders at a summit in Lisbon in Nov. 2010. Until now, it was widely assumed that coalition forces would remain in a combat role until the end of 2014.

Speaking to reporters before a two-day meeting of NATO defense ministers, NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said Afghanistan remains the alliance's top operational priority, and that the coalition has been making progress in the war.

He said transition to Afghan security control, which started last year, will continue through mid-2013 with the Afghan army and police gradually taking the lead in all regions of the country.

"From that time the Afghan security forces are in the lead all over Afghanistan, and from that time the role of our troops will gradually change from combat to support," he said.

This process will conclude at the end of 2014, when government forces are scheduled to assume full responsibility for security in the entire country, Fogh Rasmussen said. The allies are working on the details of a longterm partnership with Afghanistan, he said.

"But Afghans wil not be left alone at the end of the transition process. We are committed to providing support to Afghanistan through transition and beyond," Fogh Rasmussen said.

Speaking to reporters on the flight to Brussels, Panetta said: "Hopefully by the mid to latter part of 2013 we'll be able to make a transition from a combat role to a training, advise and assist role."

He added that this "doesn't mean we're not going to be combat-ready," but rather that the U.S. and other international forces will no longer be in "the formal combat role we're in now."

In Britain, the government said the previously agreed timetable on handing over security responsibilities to Afghan forces was not being speeded up.

"The agreed (NATO) strategy has not changed," Prime Minister David Cameron's spokesman Steve Field told reporters Thursday in London. "Under the agreed strategy, it is envisaged that (British and NATO) forces will continue to operate in a combat role in 2014."

The ministerial meeting comes a day after a secret NATO report was leaked to the media suggesting that insurgent morale remains extremely high after more than a decade of war and that the Taliban remain confident they will defeat the coalition.

It also follows a series of attacks by members of Afghan forces on NATO troops or advisers. The repeated attacks have prompted worries about the degree of Taliban infiltration in the ranks of the national army and police, as they rapidly expand to meet the 2014 target for Afghan forces to take over security and most international troops to leave.

There have been at least 35 attacks on international troops since 2007 by Afghan soldiers, police or insurgents wearing their uniforms, according to a tally by The Associated Press. The number rose sharply last year to 17, up from six in 2010.

Afghanistan War: NATO Ministers Mull Drawdown