Suspected sex abuse of family? Please I need advice.

Discussion in 'Law and Justice System' started by JD_2B, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. JD_2B
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    JD_2B Little Vixen

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    OK look.. Here's the situation. I have certain female family members who are 6 and 8 years old, who are not my daughters, but are a closely related family member's daughters. I do not want to say to whom they belong, for anonymity's sake, but they are related to me. They do not live with me, but I used to see them regularly, until I recently brought up to this family member certain abuses that she has put on myself and my son, and the suspected sexual abuse happening to the little girls.

    The girls both obviously have a venereal disease. They have some sort of genital herpes. The mother (the person who I am related to the girls through) claims that the doctor said that they "have herpes, but it is not the kind you can get from contact". This was what she said after the oldest girl got the herpes. She had just turned 8 when she was diagnosed. The younger girl JUST turned 6, and was 5 years old, when she started showing symptoms, too, identical to the older girl's herpes symptoms, and just a few months after the older girl was diagnosed. I do not know if the youngest was ever diagnosed.

    The herpes sores appear high up on the inner thigh area, right along the edge of the labia major. You can see the sores when either girl is having an outbreak, and wears little girl short shorts, and sits down with their legs spread, playing dolls or a game or whatever. This is how I saw it. I also have seen them wearing bathing suits and the herpes is along the bikini line, of the inner thigh area, and right ON the bikini line, on the inside. I could see that when the girls are standing on the side of the pool, and I am IN the pool. (to clarify)

    Number one issue: How is it fucking possible that TWO girls could BOTH get herpes without contact, if such a condition exists, even???? You should know- neither of the girls have oral herpes, so there is no way that they could have transferred the sores from the mouth to their own genitals.

    Since Issue number one is so blatantly SCREAMING at me that they have been or are being sexually abused, then the real question is- AM I CRAZY HERE OR IS MY SUSPICION OF THIS TYPE OF ABUSE GOING ON RATIONAL??

    Here are the pros and cons that have made me hesitant to call police and ask for an investigation to be launched:

    I believe they are sexually abused because:


    They clearly have what is commonly known to be a sexually transmitted disease.
    The mother claimed that a doctor said it was not from contact, yet both of the girls have it.
    The father used to stand in the bathroom with them, while they took SHOWERS, with the oldest one until she turned 8, and the youngest one until after her 5th birthday. I think this is a bit old to have a person of the opposite sex in a room with someone when they are naked.
    The father's family has massive intimacy issues, which has trickled into the family, including the wife and kids. The father's parents (the girls' grandparents) have slept in separate beds for many years, and have always had a very hard time bonding with other adults who are not family, and even seem to have a difficult time bonding with other adult family as well, but on a lesser level. That part is hard to explain. The father has had major sexual desire issues with the mother (of the girls) for the duration of the marriage, causing her to consider divorce on several occassions. He just is not attracted to her. They even had a "schedule" of when they would have sex, on a certain date each month, to ensure that she could get laid. That schedule no longer exists, apparently, but from what she tells me, they still fight only about sex and money.
    The mother was in a relationship with a much older, married man, when she was 15. During this relationship, she was raped. I do not know if this happened just one time, or over a period of time, but I can make an educated guess that it was over a period of time that she was molested by this man. The reason I believe this, is because she told me, back then, for no reason at all, when she was telling me about the dysfunctional husband and wife relationship her "friend" had, (I didnt even know he and my her had that kind of relationship, but I suspected it then) that "his wife does not care if he has sex as long as he does not have an emotional relationship with someone else."
    She was always hanging out with him, and he at least once brought her flowers, and dressed in a suit and tie, to take her "bowling". We discussed this and she said that her mom just did not have any red flags go up over it, which we both thought was strange. She compared my red flag system to her mother's red flag system, and acted as though her (the girl's mother's) red flags were so much better than mine and her mother's. That was only recently. Personally, I don't think her red flags are worth their weight in salt, at this point, myself.
    Both parents are extremely untrusting (and always have been) of allowing the girls to spend alone time with any adults, friends, and this includes family.
    Both parents are overly sheltering, and do not discuss major issues that can affect kids, or good touch bad touch, or any of that stuff.
    The kids are constantly in trouble, and the mother refers to them as monsters sometimes, and at other times, will just discuss either one's personality traits as if they are too much to handle emotionally. She always blames the girls for getting migraines, and tells them that they are being brats, etc, if they do not communicate with her or each other in a tone she likes, or if they do not do something exactly as she tells them to do it.. I am talking REALLY specific stuff too. She will often hold them tightly, while basically chewing them out and dictating to them exactly what they need to say, in these exact words, etc. The mother is extremely sensitive, and just sends the girls to their rooms any time they get on her nerves whatsoever. She even locks them in there, for hours on end. If one of the girls does something like.. jumps into the pool after being told not to, the girl is sent to her room for the rest of the night, and the following day. This extended punishment has been going on since the girls were as young as 3 and 4, having all day punishment for something ridiculous, rather than the regular time out time, that works efficiently as well. She has a master's degree, and has extensive education and CEUs in child education and behavior, but none of it seems to apply to her own children. Now, look, I do not have a beef with children being grounded, but the time should fit the crime. This is just overly controlling and isolative behavior, on the mother's part, if you ask me.


    The girls:
    Are both extremely willing to go along with what the parents tell them to do. Very submissive.
    Sometimes sleep in the parent's room. Used to do it every night, on little inflatable sleeping bags on the floor, because they "had nightmares".
    The youngest girl has recently been discussing her boody, (her bottom) and likes to play hiding games with my son after pool time, by hiding very closely under a towel with him. She seems normal overall, but she giggles a lot about certain body features. She has never tried to expose herself to me or my son, or acted in an overly sexual way. Neither of them have. Well, no that is not true- I believe she flashed her panties to me once or twice, which was uncharacteristic, because she never did that before.
    She does, however, throw a LOT of temper tantrums, and usually these are in correlation with her doing something independently, which any other 5 year old would be fully allowed and capable of doing, but that her parents won't let her do. She gets in trouble for trying to do stuff on her own, without asking (basic stuff, I mean, using SCISSORS, even, even the 8 year old gets in trouble for trying to cut paper. Or, just for being tired, and being whiny, which the mother claims gives her a migraine. Like, umm.. If they try to turn on the Wii by themselves. They know how to do it- when they learned how, they would get in trouble- not because they weren't allowed to play the wii, but because the mother wanted to be in charge of pushing the button. They would get into big trouble for that. It's just very controlling and very negative, all around.

    Oh and the girls seem to be really overly cautious around adults. That part is wierd, too. They act like they are scared of adults, sometimes. I don't know what to think about that.

    The mother has cut me off from the family, after I brought up the suspicion that there may be sexual activity going on, abusing the girls. I did not say who I suspect- I do not know who to suspect. I also brought up the past 10 years of abuse she has put me through. Lots of power and control from her, but I cant go into details of what and why for anonymity sake.


    Why I am not sure or feel like I am being deceived.. but am just needing to analyze these issues further before reporting anything:

    I was allowed to go with the mother and the girls to a dermatologist appointment one time. The mother claimed that it was to treat the herpes.
    I was not in the treatment room, just sitting out in the waiting area, with the daughter that had not yet shown symptoms. For all I know, the older one could have been going in to have a mole removed or something. Still..
    I figured that if the dermatologist saw her while she had that herpes, then maybe it is not from contact, really.. But then the other daughter had the same symptoms. So you can see why I doubt that this is a non-contact transmittable form of herpes.

    Again, besides flashing the panties, and discussing her bottom, in the youngest girl, there is no other overtly sexual behavior in the girls indicating that they are sexually abused. I just think that the behavior that shows them being (99% of the time) overly submissive with the parents, is a sign in and of itself.

    What should I do.. What should I think??
    I do not want to just blow this whole thing off. The mother has gone a few weeks without talking to me before, when I have let her know that she will no longer be allowed to abuse me, or if I told her she was being abusive to me.. And I KNOW that was true.
    So, the fact that she has now gone two months, and included one of the girls' birthdays, and Christmas and Thanksgiving, as well, makes me think that something is seriously wrong. She even went so far as to tell my son that HE could come over, but I can not. What a bitch.

    Any advice is appreciated. I really REALLY do not want to be codependent on abusers anymore, and I do not want those little girls to be in a damaging or dangerous situation. Thanks in advance for your advice. Yes I am looking for legal advice. I could care less about relationship advice. Please skip that part. Thanks.
     
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  2. Si modo
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    Si modo Diamond Member

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    KISS ... Report it to the authorities and give just the facts. The rest is irrelevant.

    Any 'friendship' with the mother takes a far back seat to the children's welfare.

    And, if the children went to a physician and if they do have herpes, the physician likely reported it, too.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2009
  3. Truthmatters
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    Truthmatters BANNED

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    Research the non contact herpies aspect.

    If they have cut you out of their lives and you still think they are being abused then what have you to lose by reporting your suspicions?
     
  4. strollingbones
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    strollingbones Diamond Member

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    herpes simplex 1 or cold sores can be spread....by touching your lips or the open sore on your lip and then your gential...but the doctors should have taken action if there is involvement of herpes simplex 2...the veneral one
     
  5. xotoxi
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    xotoxi Platinum Member

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    Correct. They may have HSV 1 (oral herpes), but it should not be appearing down in their nether regions.

    Additionally, there is no way to determine HSV1 from HSV2 unless a blood test was done.

    This needs to be reported...you should report it.

    The physician should have reported. If he did not, he is in SERIOUS trouble.
     
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  6. JenyEliza
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    JenyEliza Princess of Rhetoric

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    :eusa_hand::eusa_hand::eusa_hand::eusa_hand:

    While I have absolutely NO doubt you are a kind and very loving aunt, I think your hysteria is showing here.

    #1. A DOCTOR (a REQUIRED abuse reporter) has diagnosed these girls with herpees simplex virus. He DID NOT see fit to REPORT abuse here--and he could lose his license if he didn't report suspected abuse, so obviously he sees a situation you don't.

    #2. There IS a herpes simplex virus you can get "down there" that is NOT genital herpes. If either girl had a cold sore on her lip and then touched HER OWN nether regions before washing her hands, she could have easily transmitted the virus "down there".

    #3. These girls are two years apart. Probably share a room (me and my 2 years younger sister did). She came down with pin worms. So did I. Nobody abused us. Close proximity breeds disease with young children.

    Auntie, you need to STEP OFF before you ruin these little girls' lives, having them taken from their parent(s) and put in child services foster care. Beyond that you will destroy what little relationship you have left with their mother, and after the investigation concludes you'll never see these children again when they are returned home.

    I promise you that will be the ONLY outcome of any "investigation" you launch.

    I know. I have seen a similar scenario played out in my own family--DFACS concluded NO abuse took place, closed the case and the mother and children involved haven't spoken to the reporter in years. It's been almost 5 years since the reporter has even had a PICTURE of these children.

    So tread carefully before you go there. :eusa_hand::eusa_hand::eusa_hand::eusa_hand:
     
  7. Liability
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    Liability Locked Account. Supporting Member

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    Report it.

    Seriously. It sucks to have to do so. It will probably cause an uproar and maybe damage relationships. But, in the end, what else can you do consistent with morality and the needs of the near-defenseless kids?
     
  8. JenyEliza
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    JenyEliza Princess of Rhetoric

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    #1. Any good pediatrician worth his/her salt would have done a blood test to determine which type HSV these girls have. And had they had HSV2, he would have reported it. Doctors, nurses, school teachers, daycare workers, are REQUIRED REPORTERS. He/she knows that.

    #2. Obviously the doctor didn't find any reason to report (ie, HSV1 turned up in the test). Or he/she would have reported.

    #3. If either girl had a cold sore on her lip, fiddled with it with her hands and then touched her nether regions without washing first, the virus would easily be transferred to the inner thigh/labia. Such as when WIPING when going to the bathroom. Or just plain touching herself because she's discovered it feels good.

    You're giving poor advice here, Doc. Advice that has the potential to needlessly destroy a family.

    I'm guessing the OP is the Auntie of these girls and thinks she knows better how to raise them than her sister.

    I'm also guessing the girls' mother is a single parent.

    PERFECT target to retaliate against for whatever her past "transgressions" against Auntie are.

    Single mothers are INSTANT suspects when it comes to abuse/neglect allegations. They are perceived to be guilty until proven innocent and UNABLE to safely/successfully raise children on their own.

    It's a FALSE perception by a long shot....but no matter, it exists and people like the OP use it to wound their intended target--the Mom, by using her children against her. Its a very common tactic.

    Tread carefully here. CHILDREN'S LIVES are at stake. Taking children away from a loving parent for no reason is CRUEL and DAMAGING to their young lives. Especially when the children have only one parent raising them.

    :eusa_hand:
     
  9. Sarah G
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    Sarah G When Nothing Goes Right, Go Left Supporting Member

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    Well the first thing you do of course, is to come on a political message board and talk about your suspicions... :cuckoo:
     
  10. JenyEliza
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    JenyEliza Princess of Rhetoric

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    Bad advice, Liability. :eusa_hand:
     

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