Supreme Court here we come....

Discussion in 'Healthcare/Insurance/Govt Healthcare' started by Navy1960, Dec 19, 2009.

  1. Navy1960
    Offline

    Navy1960 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    Messages:
    5,821
    Thanks Received:
    1,188
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Arizona
    Ratings:
    +1,189
    A mandate requiring all individuals to purchase health insurance would be an unprecedented form of federal action. The government has never required people to buy any good or service as a condition of lawful residence in the United States. An individual mandate would have two features that, in combination, would make it unique. First, it would impose a duty on individuals as members of society. Second, it would require people to purchase a specific service that would be heavily regulated by the federal government. CBO 1994

    This statement from a 1994 Congressional Budget Office Memorandum remains true today. Yet, all of the leading House and Senate health-care reform bills being debated in Congress require Americans to either secure or purchase health insurance with a particular threshold of coverage, estimated by CBO to cost up to $15,000 per year for a typical family.[2] This personal mandate to enter into a contract with a private health insurance company is enforced through civil and criminal tax penalties in section 501 of the House bill[3] and with a freestanding mandate and equally questionable civil tax penalties in sections 501 and 513 of the pending Senate bill.[4]

    The purpose of this compulsory contract, coupled with the arbitrary price ratios and controls, is to require many people to buy artificially high-priced policies to subsidize coverage for others as well as an industry saddled with other government costs and regulations. Congress lawfully could enact a general tax to pay for these subsidies or it could create a tax credit for those who buy health insurance, but that would require Congress to "pay for" or budget for the subsidies in a conventional manner. The sponsors of the current bills are attempting, through the personal mandate, to keep the transfers entirely off budget or--through the gimmick of unconstitutional taxes or penalties they dub "shared responsibility payments"--make these transfers appear to be revenue-enhancing.
    Why the Personal Mandate to Buy Health Insurance Is Unprecedented and Unconstitutional


    For those of you who believe that this bill that is being called healthcare reform represents reform you are sadly mistaken. In fact it even violates one of the platforms of the very party who's intent it is to pass it. Further, after many months of painting the insurance companies as the villans they are about to succeed in enriching those very same insurance companies with several million new customers with mandates to purchase insurance. The problem though is that these mandates will lead to several constitutional challenges and according to many it will not pass that test. If that is so then the entire concept of this healthcare bill will collapse.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 2
  2. Jon
    Offline

    Jon The CPA

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Messages:
    8,101
    Thanks Received:
    1,276
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Fayetteville, AR
    Ratings:
    +1,281
    I, for one, am glad that the Supreme Court will see through this garbage. The very idea behind free market economies is that consumers can choose not to participate. This violates the rights of the American people and jeopardizes the principles on which we have built our society. It's a crying shame that people are actually supporting this.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  3. Navy1960
    Offline

    Navy1960 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    Messages:
    5,821
    Thanks Received:
    1,188
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Arizona
    Ratings:
    +1,189
    One other thing of note here Jon, is the very mandates that are in the bill will result in an economic windfall for the very insurance companies that many have spent the last several months turning into villans. I fail to understand how supporters of this bill cannot see the simple truth of a bill that mandates that as a matter of citizenship people will now be required to purchase a service from a private company. If this does not violate all the principles this nation was founded upon I do not know what does.
     
  4. Big Fitz
    Offline

    Big Fitz User Quit *****

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Messages:
    16,917
    Thanks Received:
    2,473
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +2,475
    This could get very ugly. I have no faith that P-BO and company won't threaten to pack the court either. Worked for FDR after all.
     
  5. Navy1960
    Offline

    Navy1960 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    Messages:
    5,821
    Thanks Received:
    1,188
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Arizona
    Ratings:
    +1,189
    I had a thread on this a while back , when someone asked me how, this would ever end up in court, and here is one way it will.

    STATE CAPITOL, PHOENIX (June 22, 2009) – Today by a vote of 18-11, the Arizona Senate passed HCR2014: The Healthcare Freedom Act, which will refer a constitutional amendment to ballot to prevent citizens from being compelled to join a government-run healthcare system. The measure will also guarantee the right to purchase private health insurance.

    AZ Healthcare Freedom Act on way to Ballot : Nancy Barto - State Representative

    As soon as something like this becomes law, then the lawsuits will start at least here which will eventually draw in several other states that are considering like legislation. This is just one method, that does not include those states that can make the case that other states are treated differently under the 16th Amendment than they are. As I said, this bill is filled with issues that are going to be a big problem for it in court, and I suspect it's authors already know that.
     
  6. Harry Dresden
    Online

    Harry Dresden Latinum, Plantinum,Silver,Gold Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2008
    Messages:
    52,086
    Thanks Received:
    6,960
    Trophy Points:
    1,860
    Location:
    Nv.
    Ratings:
    +13,699
    in my state you are required to have car ins.....whats the difference here?
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  7. WillowTree
    Online

    WillowTree Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    68,193
    Thanks Received:
    10,175
    Trophy Points:
    2,030
    Ratings:
    +14,770
    you aren't mandated to own a car! You can't not own your body!
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 2
  8. saveliberty
    Offline

    saveliberty Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    42,206
    Thanks Received:
    6,142
    Trophy Points:
    1,830
    Ratings:
    +20,156
    The Senate's version is still different than the House's. In reconciliation I would guess the penalty will be dropped for the reason of challenges in court. A softer abortion language will seep in and maybe even the Medicare expansion. Reconciliation bills are not subject to filibuster. You just need the majority vote to pass.
     
  9. Big Black Dog
    Offline

    Big Black Dog Gold Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    22,927
    Thanks Received:
    5,114
    Trophy Points:
    260
    Ratings:
    +5,749
    There is going to come a time, and it's coming real soon, that the government will be collecting taxes for this Health Care Reform crap. They will start collecting the taxes long before this case is heard in the Supreme Court. I would just like to know if I will be paid interest for the taxes the government collected illegally to fund this nonsense when they return my tax money to me.
     
  10. WillowTree
    Online

    WillowTree Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    68,193
    Thanks Received:
    10,175
    Trophy Points:
    2,030
    Ratings:
    +14,770
    Are you kidding BBD? they will collect it and spend it just like they did social security. that's the only reason social security is in trouble cause the assholes "borrowed" the funds and neglected to pay them back.
     

Share This Page