Strike for $15.00 an hour, Sub shop fires everybody

[thereisnospoon]

[

Joe is well aware of the fact that unions have been declining for a while. It's part of his bitterness, I would venture. Talk about bottom feeders, I'd venture further that at some point Joe "accumulated" his wealth as a union officer, paid union wages for sitting on his ass in some office while his brethren busted butt doing the hard work. Of course, as union membership waned, so did the trough of money the Joes had at their disposal.

Actually, never belonged to a union. My dad did, and he got decent pay and decent medical coverage (which came in handy when he died at 56 from the asbestos a rich corporate asshole told him was totally safe to work with.)

But as long as you brought it up, the decline of unions has been shared by a decline in the middle class. This really isn't a good thing, but you dumb assholes sit there with your guns and your bibles and keep voting for the guys who screw you.

And so did I until about six years ago. Now I know better. Some of you never learn.

Uneducated dolt....Back then nobody knew the dangers of asbestos exposure.
The middle class has been growing exponentially.
The gun and Bible card...Nice try.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Newsflash....The concept of 'fair' is so vague, it is impossible to define. It is a useless term.
The concept of wealth distribution or wealth inequality as it's being spun, is pure fallacy. The idea presupposes the notion that income and wealth must be equal. That we know is also impossible.And the argument that income and wealth can "be made more fair or equal, unless our government becomes totalitarian in function, is impossible.
I have no idea where this dream of income equality or wealth distribution comes from.
The system we have while not perfect, is the best in the world. The capitalist system 'does the best for the most'..
Like it or not we are all capitalists. We all want more for our labor and efforts.
Your greed for larger wages and compensation is no different than the business owner that wants his profit margin to be as large as possible and permissible.
Deal with THAT.

Most people have a pretty good bead on what's fair.

The real reason why most people aren't more outraged is because they have no idea how inequally wealth is distributed in this country.

 

[JoeB131]

[
Uneducated dolt....Back then nobody knew the dangers of asbestos exposure.
try.

THat's not true, either.

The companies that MANUFACTURED Asbestos knew it was carcinogenic.

Asbestos - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Widespread recognition of the occupational risks of asbestos in Britain was reported in 1924 by a Dr. Cooke, a pathologist, who introduced a case description of a 33-year-old female asbestos worker, Nellie Kershaw, with the following: "Medical men in areas where asbestos is manufactured have long suspected the dust to be the cause of chronic bronchitis and fibrosis ..."[72] Dr. Cooke then went on to report on a case in 1927 involving a 33-year-old male worker who was the only survivor out of ten workers in an asbestos carding room. In the report he named the disease "asbestosis".[73]


In 1930, the major asbestos company Johns-Manville produced a report, for internal company use only, about medical reports of asbestos worker fatalities.[78] In 1932, a letter from U.S. Bureau of Mines to asbestos manufacturer Eagle-Picher stated, in relevant part, "It is now known that asbestos dust is one of the most dangerous dusts to which man is exposed."[79]

In 1933, Metropolitan Life Insurance Co. doctors found that 29% of workers in a Johns-Manville plant had asbestosis.[78] Likewise, in 1933, Johns-Manville officials settled lawsuits by 11 employees with asbestosis on the condition that the employees' lawyer agree to never again "directly or indirectly participate in the bringing of new actions against the Corporation."[79] In 1934, officials of two large asbestos companies, Johns-Manville and Raybestos-Manhattan, edited an article about the diseases of asbestos workers written by a Metropolitan Life Insurance Company doctor. The changes downplayed the danger of asbestos dust.[79] In 1935, officials of Johns-Manville and Raybestos-Manhattan instructed the editor of Asbestos magazine to publish nothing about asbestosis.[79] In 1936, a group of asbestos companies agreed to sponsor research on the health effects of asbestos dust, but required that the companies maintain complete control over the disclosure of the results.[78]

In 1951, asbestos companies removed all references to cancer before allowing publication of research they sponsored.[81] In 1952, Dr. Kenneth Smith, Johns-Manville medical director, recommended (unsuccessfully) that warning labels be attached to products containing asbestos. Later, Smith testified: "It was a business decision as far as I could understand ... the corporation is in business to provide jobs for people and make money for stockholders and they had to take into consideration the effects of everything they did and if the application of a caution label identifying a product as hazardous would cut into sales, there would be serious financial implications."[82]

In 1953, National Gypsum's safety director wrote to the Indiana Division of Industrial Hygiene, recommending that acoustic plaster mixers wear respirators "because of the asbestos used in the product." Another company official noted that the letter was "full of dynamite" and urged that it be retrieved before reaching its destination. A memo in the files noted that the company "succeeded in stopping" the letter, which "will be modified."[83]

 

[thereisnospoon]

[

Joe might have been paid to work 70 hrs. but defiantly only worked much less like maybe 7
there is no way people like him are worth there salt .
He has no understanding that a job is the byproduct of a business and not the other way around.
No complaining union workers does. There are many good people who can advance in there skill or trade thru Deeds but collective bargaining holds them back--and were feasible the good ones branch off and start there own business.
I started as a Union construction worker in the 60's--went to war and came back to same career--(notice I said career something minimum wage advocates do not understand) back in Union and 4 years later started my own construction company.
I have recently retired and my 4 sons run the company. Trust me I had more than one disagreement with employee's that believe the business I started was there's.
Well my sons have not signed the new collective bargaining agreement because the construction business is so messed up right now there is no room for the unions greed--they want raises in this economy (avg worker get $40.00 per hr plus bennies)
If workers are worth their salt than right to work laws should be mandated by the federal government . And minimum wage would go away as you would get paid what you are worth.

Need this in schools also.

But here's the thing. WHY is the construction business so bad right now, dumbass?

Oh, could it be that after decades of union busting, outsourcing, not letting the minimum wage keep up with inflation, and so on, no one can afford to buy houses anymore? Especially when there are still so many foreclosed properties glutting the market...

Because dumb idiots really don't understand- CONSUMER DEMAND drives the economy, NOT the beneficience of business owners sniffing their own flatulence.

Unions SCREWED the construction business. That's why so few union jobs exist anymore.
Outsourcing...You do not know the definition of the term.
Tell me Joe, how does one outsource the guy that assembles the forms for concrete pouring?
How does one outsource the installation of glass in a sky scraper?

I will make it simple for you...
Auto parts.
When Ford hires a company to manufacture their transmissions, that is outsourcing. When the transmission manufacturer hires a company to make certain transmission parts, that is outsourcing.
You lefties have somehow decided that outsourcing and 'off shoring' are one in the same. FALSE.
Outsourcing actually CREATES jobs. They may not be the high paying union jobs you covet, but these companies provide employment opportunities that if kept in house, would not exist.
Where is it written that home ownership is an entitlement?
Our federal government with it's less than brilliant attempt to manipulate the housing marketplace with CRA and a host of other schemes, created the largest housing crash in the history of the nation.
Let's face it, there is a large sector of the population that should never enter into home ownership. Now that credit has been properly tightened, the marketplace will be permitted to stabilize.
BTW, I look around and I cannot see anything wrong with the construction business.

 

[JoeB131]

[


Joe, I voted for a Democrat in 2008, I wrote him in, because McCain was a phony and Obama made a lot of promises he couldn't keep.

I know several that have sued former employers and won, my take is again you are full of shit.

Healthcare, I pay more, have the same deductible, how is this helpful?

Wrong again dumbshit, I don't listen to right wing radio, if I listen to it, it is usually sports stations. Political talk radio on the right and the left are pretty lame.

Didn't expect a dumbshit such as yourself to understand much, and you have not backed anything up, it is just a dumbshits opinion, and you are the biggest fucking dumbshit I know. As far as being a libertarian, wrong again asswipe.

I vote for a lot of different party's, I run conservative, unlike yourself, the died in wool liberal in denial.

I realize my first mistake is trying to discuss anything with you, you are way to fucking stupid to even discuss simple political views.

Enjoy your two part time jobs at McDonalds and Taco Bell.

So which "Democrat" did you write in, guy? Lyndon LaRouche?

Like I said, the Grown-Ups are talking, you can go back to the Kiddie Table.

To the point, it probably would have been difficult to sue them because a few weeks after they let me go, they ended up letting 40% of their employees go- mostly the long term ones. They could have legitimately argued economic need. But they knew what they did was wrong.

Healthcare, I pay more, have the same deductible, how is this helpful?

Well, to start with, your insurance company can't claim your cancer was a "Pre-existing condition" because you had acne when you were 16. Nor can they cap you out when your health needs exceed the limits of your policy.

"died in wool liberal "

No, guy, it's DYED in the Wool, like you are dying a fabric, not as if your life has expired...

But I'm a pragmatist. I voted Republican when they were not run by crazy people. When they didn't run presidential candidates who though they were wearing Magic Underwear and putting adjectives in front of the word "Rape".

 

[Papageorgio]

[


Joe, I voted for a Democrat in 2008, I wrote him in, because McCain was a phony and Obama made a lot of promises he couldn't keep.

I know several that have sued former employers and won, my take is again you are full of shit.

Healthcare, I pay more, have the same deductible, how is this helpful?

Wrong again dumbshit, I don't listen to right wing radio, if I listen to it, it is usually sports stations. Political talk radio on the right and the left are pretty lame.

Didn't expect a dumbshit such as yourself to understand much, and you have not backed anything up, it is just a dumbshits opinion, and you are the biggest fucking dumbshit I know. As far as being a libertarian, wrong again asswipe.

I vote for a lot of different party's, I run conservative, unlike yourself, the died in wool liberal in denial.

I realize my first mistake is trying to discuss anything with you, you are way to fucking stupid to even discuss simple political views.

Enjoy your two part time jobs at McDonalds and Taco Bell.

So which "Democrat" did you write in, guy? Lyndon LaRouche?

Like I said, the Grown-Ups are talking, you can go back to the Kiddie Table.

To the point, it probably would have been difficult to sue them because a few weeks after they let me go, they ended up letting 40% of their employees go- mostly the long term ones. They could have legitimately argued economic need. But they knew what they did was wrong.

Healthcare, I pay more, have the same deductible, how is this helpful?

Well, to start with, your insurance company can't claim your cancer was a "Pre-existing condition" because you had acne when you were 16. Nor can they cap you out when your health needs exceed the limits of your policy.

"died in wool liberal "

No, guy, it's DYED in the Wool, like you are dying a fabric, not as if your life has expired...

But I'm a pragmatist. I voted Republican when they were not run by crazy people. When they didn't run presidential candidates who though they were wearing Magic Underwear and putting adjectives in front of the word "Rape".

Fuck off! I'm done with the liberal victim BS you spew.

Poor little Joey has to work in fast food cuz he lost his job because of big bad corporate America.

 

[JoeB131]

[


Outsourcing...You do not know the definition of the term.
Tell me Joe, how does one outsource the guy that assembles the forms for concrete pouring?
How does one outsource the installation of glass in a sky scraper?

I will make it simple for you...
Auto parts.
When Ford hires a company to manufacture their transmissions, that is outsourcing. When the transmission manufacturer hires a company to make certain transmission parts, that is outsourcing.
You lefties have somehow decided that outsourcing and 'off shoring' are one in the same. FALSE.
Outsourcing actually CREATES jobs. They may not be the high paying union jobs you covet, but these companies provide employment opportunities that if kept in house, would not exist.
Where is it written that home ownership is an entitlement?
Our federal government with it's less than brilliant attempt to manipulate the housing marketplace with CRA and a host of other schemes, created the largest housing crash in the history of the nation.
Let's face it, there is a large sector of the population that should never enter into home ownership. Now that credit has been properly tightened, the marketplace will be permitted to stabilize.
BTW, I look around and I cannot see anything wrong with the construction business.

Guy, you are missing th epoint of the conversation.

Most working people can't afford houses right now. Their jobs don't pay enough and the bankers screwed them over.

That's why we have houses that never rose above the foundations.

 

[JoeB131]

Fuck off! I'm done with the liberal victim BS you spew.

Yes, do scamper off with your tail between your legs...

 

[Papageorgio]

Fuck off! I'm done with the liberal victim BS you spew.

Yes, do scamper off with your tail between your legs...

No, I just know when you deal with people as stupid as you. I am wasting my time, and if you are at work, you are stealing time. Take care poor little fired guy.

 

[thereisnospoon]

[

Answer to your question and straight to the point---Present government has no idea what to do to restart prosperity--unions aren't busted just not needed.
I submit consumer demand is at a all time high right now and government is in the way.

You can submit that, but it would be fucking retarded.

Sorry, man, I'm out there on the front lines. Job #2 that I'm going to leave for in about an hour is selling people a home improvement product they need, but most of them really can't afford it right now. Or at least they don't think they can afford it.

Every day driving to job #1, there were these unfinished McMansions they started on when the economy went bust and just left there... they sat unfinished for 5 years before work started on them again.

And, yeah, the fact that the good union job has vanished, is the problem.

We've probably generated enough wealth to put everyone back to work, but the fact is, 93% of the wealth created in the "recovery" has gone to the top 1%. That's just screwed up.

Oh yawn yawn yawn..
Let me tell you a story about "good union work"..
In Upstate NY, a computer chip maker proposed a plant that when fully operational, would employ about 1,000 people. Now these jobs were for the technically advanced. This was no factory for the uneducated. The story in the Albany Times Union quoted a union boss using that very term. He said this plant would provide "good union work"...Not "good jobs"...Good "union" jobs...Sheesh.
Quite frankly the unions cared only about the unions. Labor collectives are businesses. And the primary function of a union is to increase membership. More members equals more revenue for the union's coffers. And nicer homes and cars for wealthy union delegates.
Being a union State, New York has major issues attracting businesses such as this.
Before so much as a shovel of dirt was turned, union leaders stepped in and began their attempts as claiming their turf.
From construction to operation, unions behaved like vultures. They went to the company and made demands that the entire operation from construction to operation HAD to be union.
The company saw their costs go through the roof. Even the Town government got in on the act. Every Town official from the inspectors to the planning commission had their hand stuck out.
The company abandoned the project shortly after construction on infrastructure started.
Nice going.
Here's the rub. The company was going to pay wages equivalent or even slightly above the local union scale. Idiots( the unions)..
So they got nothing. The property is still vacant.

BTW, union rank and file cannot ordinarily afford a "Mc Mansion" so the absence of 'good union work' is of no consequence.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Actually paying non union labor makes construction more affordable not less.

No, it doesn't, because no one can afford what is being sold, dumbass.

Funny that statement. People buy shit all the time People buy homes all the time, people put additions on existing homes all the time.

Are you telling me that no one can afford these things unless they are in a union?

Henry Ford once said, "If my employees can't afford to buy the cars they are building,

the other thing you don't get is that labor is really a very small part of the pie. Materials, sales commissions, land value, are all much bigger factors

.

In general labor almost always equals the cost of materials. Land value is only an issue if you are using the value of the land as collateral. In most cases the hous and the land are counted in the value.

What it costs to build a house really is far less than what the house is selling for. Which is why a house of the exact same design in Evanston, IL is going to cost a lot more than the same design in Justice, IL.

You've never built a house have you?

regional variations aside if you build a house on spec you can expect to profit only about 8%- 10 %.

So it 's really not that much less. And if you are paying more for labor costs as in union everything then you'll either have to charge more or make less profit.

Have you ever employed union tradesmen? I have.

The idiot electrician wouldn't cut a piece of strapping so as to hang a light on the center line of a window so he hung them all off center because and I quote, "I don't cut strapping that's the carpenters job"

Where as my non union electrician did the job the right way even if he had to cut a 2 foot long piece of strapping so the light was installed correctly.

That is why union labor sucks.

I have a couple "union labor sucks" stories..
For a short time I actually worked in union paint shop.
We were working in building that was being remodeled.
During one week, we had two snow storms which made commuting a chore. Not a lot of work got done that week. Finally we were able to get things going again.
Anyway, we wanted to catch up. So my foreman went to the electrical foreman and asked if we could stay past 3:30..Yeah, can ya believe that. The work day ended at 3 freakin thrity..The electrician's foreman first said no. Then he said he would ask one of his guys to stay and turn off the lights when we were through. Imagine that! You needed an electrician to flip a couple switches...Our company would have to pay 4 hours at time and a half so the "switch flipper" could sit on his ass and read the comics, just so he could flip a fuckin switch. Our foreman said forget it.
I worked at a data communications company. we did it all. We ran cable set up computer networks, etc. We got a contract to work at the Asbury Park( NJ) Press building. Now as many people know, newspaper people in the northeast are represented by a number of unions. so this is a "union" building. We were non union.
The rules we had to follow were frightening.
We could pull cable to the doorway of the 'telephone room'. Because we were non union, we could not enter the room. We had to drop the cabling out side the room. And on the other end, we could bring all the cables to the location of the main frame and the terminals, but could not do the terminations. We could set the terminals but, now get this, we were not allowed to remove the terminals from their respective cartons. The dock workers had to do that. And if they were not around, oh don't dare go get one. They would flip out. "I'll get there when I get there"...These jagoffs were always out to lunch or on their union mandated coffee break.
UGH....Yep..Unions SUCK ....Sideways.

 

[JoeB131]

Fuck off! I'm done with the liberal victim BS you spew.

Yes, do scamper off with your tail between your legs...

No, I just know when you deal with people as stupid as you. I am wasting my time, and if you are at work, you are stealing time. Take care poor little fired guy.

Naw, man, I'm done with today's silliness of expecting me to make sales in a store when we have six inches of new snow...

But you are whining like a beaten dog, I get that.. Of course, being a little toady of the Plutocrats, you probably do that a lot.

 

[JoeB131]

[

I have a couple "union labor sucks" stories..
For a short time I actually worked in union paint shop.
We were working in building that was being remodeled.
During one week, we had two snow storms which made commuting a chore. Not a lot of work got done that week. Finally we were able to get things going again.
Anyway, we wanted to catch up. So my foreman went to the electrical foreman and asked if we could stay past 3:30..Yeah, can ya believe that. The work day ended at 3 freakin thrity..The electrician's foreman first said no. Then he said he would ask one of his guys to stay and turn off the lights when we were through. Imagine that! You needed an electrician to flip a couple switches...Our company would have to pay 4 hours at time and a half so the "switch flipper" could sit on his ass and read the comics, just so he could flip a fuckin switch. Our foreman said forget it.
I worked at a data communications company. we did it all. We ran cable set up computer networks, etc. We got a contract to work at the Asbury Park( NJ) Press building. Now as many people know, newspaper people in the northeast are represented by a number of unions. so this is a "union" building. We were non union.
The rules we had to follow were frightening.
We could pull cable to the doorway of the 'telephone room'. Because we were non union, we could not enter the room. We had to drop the cabling out side the room. And on the other end, we could bring all the cables to the location of the main frame and the terminals, but could not do the terminations. We could set the terminals but, now get this, we were not allowed to remove the terminals from their respective cartons. The dock workers had to do that. And if they were not around, oh don't dare go get one. They would flip out. "I'll get there when I get there"...These jagoffs were always out to lunch or on their union mandated coffee break.
UGH....Yep..Unions SUCK ....Sideways.

Well, you know what, I've seen the OTHER extreme, where people were penalized for refusing to do work they were not qualified to do.

I've saw a guy who was not given a decent raise because he didn't want to drive a truck when he was hired to be a warehouseman. He wasn't qualified to drive a truck and should never have been asked to do it.

I've seen a co-worker fired because she brought her life-partner to the Company holiday party. Oh, yeah, her life partner happened to be a woman who wore a suit.

I personally got put into a position set to eliminate itself because I ran up too many medical bills.

Now, would you get an argument from me that some unions abuse the union privilage? Nope. I've seen that, too.

But frankly, I'd take the side of working folks over management in most cases.

 

[thereisnospoon]

[]

So you must of got a huge payoff after you sued them for illegally firing you.

are you intentionally being a retard? You do realize how difficult it is to sue an employer, right?

Again the big picture has been missed, but I figured it would. You really think the middle class is better off with this health care, and the reason we don't have single payer is the Democrats screwed it up, they had the votes to do what they wanted and failed. Insurance companies.

I think the middle class is better off in that a lot of people who thought they were insured by were being ripped off by the Insurance companies won't be anymore.




No, guy, it was really only about 20 years in the making... 20 years of deregulation and free trade. But you are kind of retarded and get your thinking from Hate Radio, so you can be excused.




Nope, the screwing over was by big corporations, guy. Sorry. I mean I know you have the Hate Radio "Gummit Bad" gene in you, but really, you haven't backed up a thing you've said yet.

Tax cuts aren't the only problem but that's all you see me post. We need to cut spending, we need to cut taxes, we need to control our spending. Obama has also sold you out to corporate America, we are printing more money than ever and it is helping the rich, not the middle class. We didn't go to single payer because insurance companies bought Democrats. We didn't prosecute because Democrats we're be holding to the finance industry. That Bush did nothing is irrelevant. He took easy roads also.

Yawn...yeah, yo heard it from Rush. QE bad.

I agree, that Obama should have pushed for Single Payer and he should have prosecuted the shit out of Wall Street. He didn't. He was trying to "Get Along".

I haven't voted For a Republican President for two elections, so I have taken the glasses off and see that what we have now is a mess, and no one on the political landscape has the balls to do what needs to be done. It will hurt America for a few years but it would correct so many problems.

You voted for the status quo, that makes you the stupid fuck.

Oh, am I talking to a LiberTARDian, here? Because, frankly, you guys need to go back to the political Kiddie Table and let the grownups talk.

Your talking points are truly stuff of magic.

 

[Papageorgio]

[]

So you must of got a huge payoff after you sued them for illegally firing you.

are you intentionally being a retard? You do realize how difficult it is to sue an employer, right?




I think the middle class is better off in that a lot of people who thought they were insured by were being ripped off by the Insurance companies won't be anymore.




No, guy, it was really only about 20 years in the making... 20 years of deregulation and free trade. But you are kind of retarded and get your thinking from Hate Radio, so you can be excused.




Nope, the screwing over was by big corporations, guy. Sorry. I mean I know you have the Hate Radio "Gummit Bad" gene in you, but really, you haven't backed up a thing you've said yet.





Yawn...yeah, yo heard it from Rush. QE bad.

I agree, that Obama should have pushed for Single Payer and he should have prosecuted the shit out of Wall Street. He didn't. He was trying to "Get Along".

I haven't voted For a Republican President for two elections, so I have taken the glasses off and see that what we have now is a mess, and no one on the political landscape has the balls to do what needs to be done. It will hurt America for a few years but it would correct so many problems.

You voted for the status quo, that makes you the stupid fuck.

Oh, am I talking to a LiberTARDian, here? Because, frankly, you guys need to go back to the political Kiddie Table and let the grownups talk.

Your talking points are truly stuff of magic.

No kidding, he has no touch with reality.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Again, a capitalist is a parasite that has convinced you he's a vital organ.

No....YOU are the parasite. You look for a host, make demands of the host's resources and offer nothing in return.

Guy, I work 70 hours a week on two jobs. You guys are laughable..

Trolling message boards and selling ditch-weed-quality pot do NOT count as "jobs", boy.

 

[JoeB131]

No....YOU are the parasite. You look for a host, make demands of the host's resources and offer nothing in return.

Guy, I work 70 hours a week on two jobs. You guys are laughable..

Trolling message boards and selling ditch-weed-quality pot do NOT count as "jobs", boy.

Guy, you need to stop talking about what you are doing at the Truck Stop.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Guy, I work 70 hours a week on two jobs. You guys are laughable..

Trolling message boards and selling ditch-weed-quality pot do NOT count as "jobs", boy.

Guy, you need to stop talking about what you are doing at the Truck Stop.

We're gonna let you have this sandbox all to yourself.

 

[JoeB131]

Trolling message boards and selling ditch-weed-quality pot do NOT count as "jobs", boy.

Guy, you need to stop talking about what you are doing at the Truck Stop.

We're gonna let you have this sandbox all to yourself.

Hey, I just found it interesting that Jack-axle know so much about "ditch quality weed".

 

[Jarlaxle]

Guy, I work 70 hours a week on two jobs. You guys are laughable..

Trolling message boards and selling ditch-weed-quality pot do NOT count as "jobs", boy.

Guy, you need to stop talking about what you are doing at the Truck Stop.

Only thing I ever do at a truck stop is fuel up my bus and buy a cup of high-octane coffee. Stop projecting.