STOP Saying "Comprehensive Immigration Reform"

[Little-Acorn]

Your position disregards the reality that a system that does not keep up with changing times will be bypassed whether you want it to be or not. Half of people who are "illegal" came here legally. I know people who have had a hideous time adjusting their status after entering legally because the bureaucratic process is such a nightmare that they may have to apply (and repay fees) multiple times because their paperwork gets lost or they do not ever receive notices/requests for additional documentation that they allegedly were sent.

There is no need for their status to be "adjusted". If their visas are expired, they are supposed to have left the country. By staying, they are illegal aliens, and are subject to arrest and deportation. That's what should be done. ASAP.

Sure there is a need for their status to be adjusted--they come here for college on a student visa and get married,

If they marry an American citizen, then they get their green card in due course, pretty much automatically. Then five years later, they get their citizenship. No "adjustment" necessary beyond what already happens by law.

and then get their or graduate from medical school and want to practice medicine,

They can... just not in the U.S. They knew that going in. Again, no "adjustment" necessary. They are getting exactly what they signed up for. If they want to change their minds, they can go back to their countries after the current visa expires, and sign up for a permanent green card, and wait till it's issued. Again, they knew all this when they first came in.

or they want to go from being a permanent resident alien to a full-fledged citizen.

As I said, that happens pretty much automatically, five years after they get their Permanent Resident Alien card ("green card"). Again, no "adjustment" necessary.

Our country has had quotas for the number of people from different groups that are admitted to the country and given green cards, every year. The quotas are limited so that we don't get such a huge flood of people that they cannot assimilate into our culture. The reason this country lets foreigners in on a permanent basis, is so they can become Americans. Not so that they can turn parts of America into England, Mexico, Canada, or Iran.

They are expected to assimilate. That's why limited numbers are let in every year.

And that's what the current floods of illegal aliens is destroying.

 

[Agit8r]

Our present immigration laws are anachronisms from the age of eugenics.

 

[sameech]

There is no need for their status to be "adjusted". If their visas are expired, they are supposed to have left the country. By staying, they are illegal aliens, and are subject to arrest and deportation. That's what should be done. ASAP.

Sure there is a need for their status to be adjusted--they come here for college on a student visa and get married,

If they marry an American citizen, then they get their green card in due course, pretty much automatically. Then five years later, they get their citizenship. No "adjustment" necessary beyond what already happens by law.

and then get their or graduate from medical school and want to practice medicine,

They can... just not in the U.S. They knew that going in. Again, no "adjustment" necessary. They are getting exactly what they signed up for. If they want to change their minds, they can go back to their countries after the current visa expires, and sign up for a permanent green card, and wait till it's issued. Again, they knew all this when they first came in.

or they want to go from being a permanent resident alien to a full-fledged citizen.

As I said, that happens pretty much automatically, five years after they get their Permanent Resident Alien card ("green card"). Again, no "adjustment" necessary.

Our country has had quotas for the number of people from different groups that are admitted to the country and given green cards, every year. The quotas are limited so that we don't get such a huge flood of people that they cannot assimilate into our culture. The reason this country lets foreigners in on a permanent basis, is so they can become Americans. Not so that they can turn parts of America into England, Mexico, Canada, or Iran.

They are expected to assimilate. That's why limited numbers are let in every year.

And that's what the current floods of illegal aliens is destroying.

You clearly have little knowledge of how the system works if you think these things just happen "automatically" with "no adjustment necessary"

 

[Little-Acorn]

Sure there is a need for their status to be adjusted--they come here for college on a student visa and get married,

If they marry an American citizen, then they get their green card in due course, pretty much automatically. Then five years later, they get their citizenship. No "adjustment" necessary beyond what already happens by law.


They can... just not in the U.S. They knew that going in. Again, no "adjustment" necessary. They are getting exactly what they signed up for. If they want to change their minds, they can go back to their countries after the current visa expires, and sign up for a permanent green card, and wait till it's issued. Again, they knew all this when they first came in.

or they want to go from being a permanent resident alien to a full-fledged citizen.

As I said, that happens pretty much automatically, five years after they get their Permanent Resident Alien card ("green card"). Again, no "adjustment" necessary.

Our country has had quotas for the number of people from different groups that are admitted to the country and given green cards, every year. The quotas are limited so that we don't get such a huge flood of people that they cannot assimilate into our culture. The reason this country lets foreigners in on a permanent basis, is so they can become Americans. Not so that they can turn parts of America into England, Mexico, Canada, or Iran.

They are expected to assimilate. That's why limited numbers are let in every year.

And that's what the current floods of illegal aliens is destroying.

You clearly have little knowledge of how the system works if you think these things just happen "automatically" with "no adjustment necessary"

In other words, you can't refute anything I said. But you hate it anyway, so you'll just imply there's something wrong with it somewhere, and hope someone believes you, eh?

What I described, is in fact the way the present laws work... at least, when we obey them.

It's the fact that we have frequently not obeyed our own laws (by letting in millions of illegal aliens without any significant effort to stem the flood), that has caused our present problems. If we had obeyed and enforced the laws that have been on the books for decades, we would not have the present "crisis".

Conditions in the countries the illegal aliens are coming from, are no different now than they were thirty years ago. In some cases there are different groups of thugs oppressing them today than were oppressing them back then. But their situation is not materially different. And thy have no more reason to come here now, than they did then (they had plenty of reason then and now, but no difference).

The only difference is, now America is far less vigilant. Back then, the foreign nationals didn't bother trying to crash the border, because they knew they would not succeed. Today, they know they likely WILL succeed... and so they come flooding across. And they find they are right, so they tell their friends that now is the time, and even more come.

Back then they knew America would not let them in, except by following the rules. Today, they know that America WILL let them in if they break the rules. That's the only difference in the situation today.

And that's all it takes.

 

[sameech]

If they marry an American citizen, then they get their green card in due course, pretty much automatically. Then five years later, they get their citizenship. No "adjustment" necessary beyond what already happens by law.


They can... just not in the U.S. They knew that going in. Again, no "adjustment" necessary. They are getting exactly what they signed up for. If they want to change their minds, they can go back to their countries after the current visa expires, and sign up for a permanent green card, and wait till it's issued. Again, they knew all this when they first came in.


As I said, that happens pretty much automatically, five years after they get their Permanent Resident Alien card ("green card"). Again, no "adjustment" necessary.

Our country has had quotas for the number of people from different groups that are admitted to the country and given green cards, every year. The quotas are limited so that we don't get such a huge flood of people that they cannot assimilate into our culture. The reason this country lets foreigners in on a permanent basis, is so they can become Americans. Not so that they can turn parts of America into England, Mexico, Canada, or Iran.

They are expected to assimilate. That's why limited numbers are let in every year.

And that's what the current floods of illegal aliens is destroying.

You clearly have little knowledge of how the system works if you think these things just happen "automatically" with "no adjustment necessary"

In other words, you can't refute anything I said. But you hate it anyway, so you'll just imply there's something wrong with it somewhere, and hope someone believes you, eh?

What I described, is in fact the way the present laws work... at least, when we obey them.

It's the fact that we have frequently not obeyed our own laws (by letting in millions of illegal aliens without any significant effort to stem the flood), that has caused our present problems. If we had obeyed and enforced the laws that have been on the books for decades, we would not have the present "crisis".

Conditions in the countries the illegal aliens are coming from, are no different now than they were thirty years ago. In some cases there are different groups of thugs oppressing them today than were oppressing them back then. But their situation is not materially different. And thy have no more reason to come here now, than they did then (they had plenty of reason then and now, but no difference).

The only difference is, now America is far less vigilant. Back then, the foreign nationals didn't bother trying to crash the border, because they knew they would not succeed. Today, they know they likely WILL succeed... and so they come flooding across. And they find they are right, so they tell their friends that now is the time, and even more come.

Back then they knew America would not let them in, except by following the rules. Today, they know that America WILL let them in if they break the rules. That's the only difference in the situation today.

And that's all it takes.

Since you presented no facts, there is nothing to refute. The immigration system is far more complicated than country quotas and pretending that people automatically adjust as a matter of default in the law. There are caps on certain types of Visa's, Visa priorities, quota carry overs, and even when you are approved for entry, you still might have to stand in line over a decade if you are from China, Mexico/Central America, or the Philippines because all those caps and priorities keep the line from barely moving in a reasonable pace for those people because of the ability of someone to jump the line ahead of them.

I doubt you could even tell me who gets first priority for admission into the US without googling it.

 

[Vigilante]

 

[Little-Acorn]

You clearly have little knowledge of how the system works if you think these things just happen "automatically" with "no adjustment necessary"

In other words, you can't refute anything I said. But you hate it anyway, so you'll just imply there's something wrong with it somewhere, and hope someone believes you, eh?

What I described, is in fact the way the present laws work... at least, when we obey them.

It's the fact that we have frequently not obeyed our own laws (by letting in millions of illegal aliens without any significant effort to stem the flood), that has caused our present problems. If we had obeyed and enforced the laws that have been on the books for decades, we would not have the present "crisis".

Conditions in the countries the illegal aliens are coming from, are no different now than they were thirty years ago. In some cases there are different groups of thugs oppressing them today than were oppressing them back then. But their situation is not materially different. And thy have no more reason to come here now, than they did then (they had plenty of reason then and now, but no difference).

The only difference is, now America is far less vigilant. Back then, the foreign nationals didn't bother trying to crash the border, because they knew they would not succeed. Today, they know they likely WILL succeed... and so they come flooding across. And they find they are right, so they tell their friends that now is the time, and even more come.

Back then they knew America would not let them in, except by following the rules. Today, they know that America WILL let them in if they break the rules. That's the only difference in the situation today.

And that's all it takes.

The immigration system is far more complicated than country quotas and pretending that people automatically adjust as a matter of default in the law. There are caps on certain types of Visa's, Visa priorities, quota carry overs, and even when you are approved for entry, you still might have to stand in line over a decade if you are from China, Mexico/Central America, or the Philippines because all those caps and priorities keep the line from barely moving in a reasonable pace for those people because of the ability of someone to jump the line ahead of them.

I didn't say it was simple. And I didn't say it was "instant citizenship".

I said there were methods to get into this country, that worked. And I said there were limited numbers, and that it took a while.

And I said there were reasons for that: We let in hundreds of thousands, after background checks, medical checks etc., so they can assimilate into American society instead of simply turning parts of their country into English societies, Mexican societies, Canadian societies, Iranian societies etc.

The details can be debated, and even changed. But letting in wholesale millions as we are doing now (illegal aliens we don't stop and turn back) destroys those purposes, and violates U.S. laws. And it must stop, and the people who got in illegally, must be sent back, with a black mark on their record for violating U.S. immigration law, and they must wait their turn like all other immigrant candidates.

It's not the American way to go door to door searching for the illegal aliens who got in. Demanding, "Your papers, please!" is a little too KGB-like or Nazi-link, and will not be done. But any illegal alien who comes to the attention of law enforcement through other means (speeding ticket, domestic-disturbance call etc.) must be processed as the illegal alien he is, and deported.

So far no one in this forum has found any fault with this.

The idea of changing our laws that have been on the books for decades, when those laws are not what has caused the problem, is preposterous. In fact, it is merely a surreptitious way of letting the hordes of illegal aliens stay. That is unacceptable.

 

[sameech]

In other words, you can't refute anything I said. But you hate it anyway, so you'll just imply there's something wrong with it somewhere, and hope someone believes you, eh?

What I described, is in fact the way the present laws work... at least, when we obey them.

It's the fact that we have frequently not obeyed our own laws (by letting in millions of illegal aliens without any significant effort to stem the flood), that has caused our present problems. If we had obeyed and enforced the laws that have been on the books for decades, we would not have the present "crisis".

Conditions in the countries the illegal aliens are coming from, are no different now than they were thirty years ago. In some cases there are different groups of thugs oppressing them today than were oppressing them back then. But their situation is not materially different. And thy have no more reason to come here now, than they did then (they had plenty of reason then and now, but no difference).

The only difference is, now America is far less vigilant. Back then, the foreign nationals didn't bother trying to crash the border, because they knew they would not succeed. Today, they know they likely WILL succeed... and so they come flooding across. And they find they are right, so they tell their friends that now is the time, and even more come.

Back then they knew America would not let them in, except by following the rules. Today, they know that America WILL let them in if they break the rules. That's the only difference in the situation today.

And that's all it takes.

The immigration system is far more complicated than country quotas and pretending that people automatically adjust as a matter of default in the law. There are caps on certain types of Visa's, Visa priorities, quota carry overs, and even when you are approved for entry, you still might have to stand in line over a decade if you are from China, Mexico/Central America, or the Philippines because all those caps and priorities keep the line from barely moving in a reasonable pace for those people because of the ability of someone to jump the line ahead of them.

I didn't say it was simple. And I didn't say it was "instant citizenship".

I said there were methods to get into this country, that worked. And I said there were limited numbers, and that it took a while.

And I said there were reasons for that: We let in hundreds of thousands, after background checks, medical checks etc., so they can assimilate into American society instead of simply turning parts of their country into English societies, Mexican societies, Canadian societies, Iranian societies etc.

The details can be debated, and even changed. But letting in wholesale millions as we are doing now (illegal aliens we don't stop and turn back) destroys those purposes, and violates U.S. laws. And it must stop, and the people who got in illegally, must be sent back, with a black mark on their record for violating U.S. immigration law, and they must wait their turn like all other immigrant candidates.

It's not the American way to go door to door searching for the illegal aliens who got in. Demanding, "Your papers, please!" is a little too KGB-like or Nazi-link, and will not be done. But any illegal alien who comes to the attention of law enforcement through other means (speeding ticket, domestic-disturbance call etc.) must be processed as the illegal alien he is, and deported.

So far no one in this forum has found any fault with this.

The idea of changing our laws that have been on the books for decades, when those laws are not what has caused the problem, is preposterous. In fact, it is merely a surreptitious way of letting the hordes of illegal aliens stay. That is unacceptable.

Yes we shouldn't change the age-old Weiner Rule. Yes, Anthony Weiner of sexting fame is the reason Supermodels get H1B visa priority. That serves our nation well and has since the beginning of time

 

[Little-Acorn]

If they marry an American citizen, then they get their green card in due course, pretty much automatically. Then five years later, they get their citizenship. No "adjustment" necessary beyond what already happens by law.


They can... just not in the U.S. They knew that going in. Again, no "adjustment" necessary. They are getting exactly what they signed up for. If they want to change their minds, they can go back to their countries after the current visa expires, and sign up for a permanent green card, and wait till it's issued. Again, they knew all this when they first came in.


As I said, that happens pretty much automatically, five years after they get their Permanent Resident Alien card ("green card"). Again, no "adjustment" necessary.

Our country has had quotas for the number of people from different groups that are admitted to the country and given green cards, every year. The quotas are limited so that we don't get such a huge flood of people that they cannot assimilate into our culture. The reason this country lets foreigners in on a permanent basis, is so they can become Americans. Not so that they can turn parts of America into England, Mexico, Canada, or Iran.

They are expected to assimilate. That's why limited numbers are let in every year.

And that's what the current floods of illegal aliens is destroying.

You clearly have little knowledge of how the system works if you think these things just happen "automatically" with "no adjustment necessary"

In other words, you can't refute anything I said. But you hate it anyway, so you'll just imply there's something wrong with it somewhere, and hope someone believes you, eh?

What I described, is in fact the way the present laws work... at least, when we obey them.

It's the fact that we have frequently not obeyed our own laws (by letting in millions of illegal aliens without any significant effort to stem the flood), that has caused our present problems. If we had obeyed and enforced the laws that have been on the books for decades, we would not have the present "crisis".

Conditions in the countries the illegal aliens are coming from, are no different now than they were thirty years ago. In some cases there are different groups of thugs oppressing them today than were oppressing them back then. But their situation is not materially different. And thy have no more reason to come here now, than they did then (they had plenty of reason then and now, but no difference).

The only difference is, now America is far less vigilant. Back then, the foreign nationals didn't bother trying to crash the border, because they knew they would not succeed. Today, they know they likely WILL succeed... and so they come flooding across. And they find they are right, so they tell their friends that now is the time, and even more come.

Back then they knew America would not let them in, except by following the rules. Today, they know that America WILL let them in if they break the rules. That's the only difference in the situation today.

And that's all it takes.

Interesting. No one in the forum has been able to refute anything pointed out here... or is even interested in trying, apparently. The closest anyone comes, is to announce that the facts are not facts... but with no particulars given or specific evidencs presented.

It looks like, once they enter a "Clean Debate Zone" where namecalling, insults, and personal attacks are forbidden, the liberals suddenly have very little to say at all.

Is the debate on any need for "comprehensive immigration reform" over?

 

[sameech]

You clearly have little knowledge of how the system works if you think these things just happen "automatically" with "no adjustment necessary"

In other words, you can't refute anything I said. But you hate it anyway, so you'll just imply there's something wrong with it somewhere, and hope someone believes you, eh?

What I described, is in fact the way the present laws work... at least, when we obey them.

It's the fact that we have frequently not obeyed our own laws (by letting in millions of illegal aliens without any significant effort to stem the flood), that has caused our present problems. If we had obeyed and enforced the laws that have been on the books for decades, we would not have the present "crisis".

Conditions in the countries the illegal aliens are coming from, are no different now than they were thirty years ago. In some cases there are different groups of thugs oppressing them today than were oppressing them back then. But their situation is not materially different. And thy have no more reason to come here now, than they did then (they had plenty of reason then and now, but no difference).

The only difference is, now America is far less vigilant. Back then, the foreign nationals didn't bother trying to crash the border, because they knew they would not succeed. Today, they know they likely WILL succeed... and so they come flooding across. And they find they are right, so they tell their friends that now is the time, and even more come.

Back then they knew America would not let them in, except by following the rules. Today, they know that America WILL let them in if they break the rules. That's the only difference in the situation today.

And that's all it takes.

Interesting. No one in the forum has been able to refute anything pointed out here... or is even interested in trying, apparently. The closest anyone comes, is to announce that the facts are not facts... but with no particulars given or specific evidencs presented.

It looks like, once they enter a "Clean Debate Zone" where namecalling, insults, and personal attacks are forbidden, the liberals suddenly have very little to say at all.

Is the debate on any need for "comprehensive immigration reform" over?

Well since you still seem to think that being married to a US citizen makes you "automatic" and disregard that there are two sides to the whole immigration system FB & EB's and one still has to apply just like everybody else even if you are married to a US citizens, then sure, it is hard to refute the ignorance you spew as fact.

 

[Little-Acorn]

Well since you still seem to think that being married to a US citizen makes you "automatic" and disregard that there are two sides to the whole immigration system FB & EB's and one still has to apply just like everybody else even if you are married to a US citizens, then sure, it is hard to refute the ignorance you spew as fact.

Or they bring up absurdly trivial details, easily taken care of (of course they have to fill out papers to get their pretty-much-automatic green cards), to pretend they have some point.

It's the fact that we have frequently not obeyed our own laws (by letting in millions of illegal aliens without any significant effort to stem the flood), that has caused our present problems. If we had obeyed and enforced the laws that have been on the books for decades, we would not have the present "crisis".

Conditions in the countries the illegal aliens are coming from, are no different now than they were thirty years ago. In some cases there are different groups of thugs oppressing them today than were oppressing them back then. But their situation is not materially different. And thy have no more reason to come here now, than they did then (they had plenty of reason then and now, but no difference).

The only difference is, now America is far less vigilant. Back then, the foreign nationals didn't bother trying to crash the border, because they knew they would not succeed. Today, they know they likely WILL succeed... and so they come flooding across. And they find they are right, so they tell their friends that now is the time, and even more come.

Back then they knew America would not let them in, except by following the rules. Today, they know that America WILL let them in if they break the rules. That's the only difference in the situation today.

And that's all it takes.

 

[sameech]

Well since you still seem to think that being married to a US citizen makes you "automatic" and disregard that there are two sides to the whole immigration system FB & EB's and one still has to apply just like everybody else even if you are married to a US citizens, then sure, it is hard to refute the ignorance you spew as fact.

Or they bring up absurdly trivial details, easily taken care of (of course they have to fill out papers to get their green cards), to pretend they have some point.

It's the fact that we have frequently not obeyed our own laws (by letting in millions of illegal aliens without any significant effort to stem the flood), that has caused our present problems. If we had obeyed and enforced the laws that have been on the books for decades, we would not have the present "crisis".

Conditions in the countries the illegal aliens are coming from, are no different now than they were thirty years ago. In some cases there are different groups of thugs oppressing them today than were oppressing them back then. But their situation is not materially different. And thy have no more reason to come here now, than they did then (they had plenty of reason then and now, but no difference).

The only difference is, now America is far less vigilant. Back then, the foreign nationals didn't bother trying to crash the border, because they knew they would not succeed. Today, they know they likely WILL succeed... and so they come flooding across. And they find they are right, so they tell their friends that now is the time, and even more come.

Back then they knew America would not let them in, except by following the rules. Today, they know that America WILL let them in if they break the rules. That's the only difference in the situation today.

And that's all it takes.

There is no crisis now. It is just election year pandering.

 

[Avorysuds]

Everyone should STOP saying the term "Comprehensive Immigration Reform". It is a ridiculous, meaningless expression, only designed to cover up what it really is talking about - namely, LEGALIZATION for illegal aliens. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever why the USA's 12 million or so illegal aliens should be legalized, and there is every reason for them to be deported.

If anyone doesn't know why they should be deported, they can go back to the 3rd grade right now. The list of Harms of Immigration is a long one >> http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/349938-immigration-is-destroying-america.html

In addition, the talk of amnesty, legalization, comprehensive immigration reform, or whatever word you like, is a major factor in inspiring the current Latin American migrants to come here. All those who have been speaking out in support of this, and using the term ""Comprehensive Immigration Reform" are directly to blame for for the current tidal wave of migrants streaming into the US southern border,as well as those who have arrived in the past, and those who come here in the future.

Ignorant, hateful nonsense.

Comprehensive immigration reform is the only viable way to address both the issue of undocumented immigrants in the United States and immigrants seeking access to the United States.

Comprehensive immigration reform should include provisions to afford those undocumented due process of the law in accordance with the 14th Amendment, to allow for a determination as to whether or not claims of refugee or asylee status are valid, and that the determinations are made in a timely manner. Once a determination has been made in a court of law that a given undocumented immigrant is in the country illegally, the law should ensure that those subject to deportation are removed from the country in an efficient and humane manner.

Comprehensive immigration reform needs to streamline current immigration laws to ensure they're consistently applied, are fair and appropriate, and respect the rights and dignity of all persons subject to those laws.

While the OP is a bit aggressive he is not being hateful or ignorant.

I have for a long time not like the word "comprehensive" because it's used to basically claim by politicians that their plan is solid and that anyone opposing their plan wants a chaotic immigration reform.

Fact is, the idea of legalization 12 million people is retarded. It will be more retarded than Obamacare and over a longer period of time. The costs will be incredible and it still in now way deals with NEW illegal immigrants... All you would be doing is trying to reset the clock to 0.

 

[Vigilante]

 

[Vigilante]