Stop-loss

[BrianH]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0489281/

I havn't seen this movie yet, but I'm not sure if I want to. Granted they can make whatever movie they want, but do you think that it's the right thing to do? What kind of message does this send to future generations of the military (WHICH WE NEED)? In a time where we definately need solutions to division, is this movie promoting solution or more division?

Should a military solider take it upon himself KNOW what he is getting into before he joins?

IMO, the U.S. military is volunteer force...U.S. soldiers should read all and know all about what they're getting in to. They should know the possibilities of what can happen in war-time, and know that they will not get a say in the decision making process (when or where) to go to war. I feel that if you join the Army, knowing good and well, that you may be sent to a war you don't agree with, or are not going to agree with it's policies, that you shouldn't join to begin with. I can't stand to see military officers, soldiers (which are few) trying to get out of what they volunteered for. They're not only bailing on they're country, but they're bailing on their friends in uniform. That's like joining a volunteer fire-department and then refusing to put out a fire when you see that it's burning down your high-school arch-enemy's house.

 

[dread]

One must take into consideration that this is hollywood and they have an agenda. Hollywood doesnt want anyone to know that there are plenty of youngsters who go willing into the miltary, know what is expected of them, and wouldnt change their choice for the world.

Point in case is my oldest. She is somewhat of a free spirit who loves painting and photography. Sassy and mouthy and not very good at taking orders without skulking all over the place. I noticed she had a penchant towards medicine and pushed her towards that career field. I also realized she wouldnt do so well in the Army ( like her parents) and would really tank if she went into the Marines. She we steered her towards the Navy. She went in as enlisted because like most kids her age she didnt know if she wanted this to be her future.

To our surprise she not only loved being a medic she flourished. She is being persued by a recruiter to go to officer canidate school and she is actually contemplating becoming a doctor and making the Navy a full twenty year career. Who would have thought?

She calls us weekly to tell us about her latest patient that she gets to lance or help work on in the emergency room. Her only regret is getting involved with a guy in 'A ' school and NOT signing up for Iraq. She feels she would have furthered her field experience if she had not choosen stateside. So now she is trying to get stationed at GITMO.

Her new boyfriend is schedualed to leave for BUD's in June as he wants desperatly to be a Navy Seal and all her friends have been signing up for new and more dangerous assignments as well.


These kids know what they are getting into and really want to help.

I guess different people have different ideas about what help is?

 

[Shogun]

yes.. we should probably ignore stop loss policies just like we ignore caskets returning from iraq. Indeed, crying about Hollywood's agenda given the failing agenda of bush fans is a real knee slapping joke.


at the end of the day, movies about stop loss policies are still more tangible than phantom wmds, the capture of OBL, that dreamy economy we heard about last summer, and republican political victories since 06.

 

[dread]

yes.. we should probably ignore stop loss policies just like we ignore caskets returning from iraq. Indeed, crying about Hollywood's agenda given the failing agenda of bush fans is a real knee slapping joke.


at the end of the day, movies about stop loss policies are still more tangible than phantom wmds, the capture of OBL, that dreamy economy we heard about last summer, and republican political victories since 06.

I am not a Bush fan....And you can go fuck yourself AND your ideals as they will NEVER amount to the service and dedication of those kids who are in the military of their own free will.

 

[eots]

and then many will have the experience scar them mentally forever ..some will come back with burned and disfigured faces..mutilated bodies..some wont come back at all...and for what purpose ? and to serve whom ?....
hey but your feel good "my sassy oldest "story was such better propaganda for recruitment wasn't it...

 

[BrianH]

yes.. we should probably ignore stop loss policies just like we ignore caskets returning from iraq. Indeed, crying about Hollywood's agenda given the failing agenda of bush fans is a real knee slapping joke.

at the end of the day, movies about stop loss policies are still more tangible than phantom wmds, the capture of OBL, that dreamy economy we heard about last summer, and republican political victories since 06.

(That's great Dread, that's good that she's interested in that. I've always wanted to be in the military but was disqualified for health reasons. I was cleared to go to MEPS to enlist and went through the whole process, however, when we had to strip to our underwear, the Doc noticed the scars on my chest and disqualified me. Sucks...but I guess it happened for a reason.)




I'm not going to start an argument about this, because I'm not really sure how I feel about the movie yet, havn't seen it.

I don't have full knowledge about the Stop-Loss policy, but from what I gather, it's been around since the Vietnam War, and that soldiers are well aware of the stop-loss policy before they join. And IMO, I feel that if they don't know about the stop-loss policy, then it's their own fault for not doing their homework on the military before they joined. If I like everything about a town except the fact that 90% of the population are sex-offenders, I'm not moving there. To me, if that's something they don't want to risk, they shouldn't join.

Part of the problem, is I think we have a large amount of soldiers that are enlisting to make money for college and that's it.

 

[dread]

and then many will have the experience scar them mentally forever ..some will come back with burned and disfigured faces..mutilated bodies..some wont come back at all...and for what purpose ? and to serve whom ?....
hey but your feel good "my sassy oldest "story was such better propaganda for recruitment wasn't it...

That's only because my daughter...Hell both my girls have more intestinal fortitude than your punk ass. God you are fuckin wuss! What with your pussy scared ass you might as well not bother to go on living. Do yourself a favor and quit while you are ahead.

 

[Shogun]

I am not a Bush fan....And you can go fuck yourself AND your ideals as they will NEVER amount to the service and dedication of those kids who are in the military of their own free will.

in turn, their service and dedication becomes personal regretful avoidance once stop loss policies are ignored by the likes of you.


you can go fuck YOURSELF with your silly little overcompensation of troop support that has about as much impact as W bumper stickers have on phantom wmds.

 

[rayboyusmc]

Hollywood doesnt want anyone to know that there are plenty of youngsters who go willing into the miltary, know what is expected of them, and wouldnt change their choice for the world.

What bullshit. Hollywood doesn't give a flying fuck what people believe about the military. Just like the right, it's all about making money.

 

[BrianH]

and then many will have the experience scar them mentally forever ..some will come back with burned and disfigured faces..mutilated bodies..some wont come back at all...and for what purpose ? and to serve whom ?....
hey but your feel good "my sassy oldest "story was such better propaganda for recruitment wasn't it...

Agreed this war is bogus, but the fact that you can run your mouth or even express your view (or fingers) is testiment to the men and women who served. It's a good thing you're not from Iraq, you'd already have been tortured and killed in one of Saddams palaces.

Like I've said a thousand times, the troops don't decide on where they want to go. They give their lives for you regardless of whether or not they're involved in a bogus war. They gave it up with the prospect of protecting your precious freedom of speech and all of the conspiracy crap that comes out of your mouth. If we were really in a fascist state like you suppose, the NSA would be knocking at your door right now.

 

[Shogun]

(That's great Dread, that's good that she's interested in that. I've always wanted to be in the military but was disqualified for health reasons. I was cleared to go to MEPS to enlist and went through the whole process, however, when we had to strip to our underwear, the Doc noticed the scars on my chest and disqualified me. Sucks...but I guess it happened for a reason.)




I'm not going to start an argument about this, because I'm not really sure how I feel about the movie yet, havn't seen it.

I don't have full knowledge about the Stop-Loss policy, but from what I gather, it's been around since the Vietnam War, and that soldiers are well aware of the stop-loss policy before they join. And IMO, I feel that if they don't know about the stop-loss policy, then it's their own fault for not doing their homework on the military before they joined. If I like everything about a town except the fact that 90% of the population are sex-offenders, I'm not moving there. To me, if that's something they don't want to risk, they shouldn't join.

Part of the problem, is I think we have a large amount of soldiers that are enlisting to make money for college and that's it.

yea THINK? it's not military wartime policy that recruiters use to lure kids into service, is it? How many recruits think about stop loss policies while whupping some ass on the latest Force of One video game? If anything, a movie like this will inform more potential recruits of the very real possibility of stop loss that that is EXACTLY what people who would rail against the movie doesn't want to happen.


Like I said.. it's just like ignoring the caskets of dead soldiers coming home from iraq since the facade of winning has been going on for a couple years now.

 

[dread]

in turn, their service and dedication becomes personal regretful avoidance once stop loss policies are ignored by the likes of you.


you can go fuck YOURSELF with your silly little overcompensation of troop support that has about as much impact as W bumper stickers have on phantom wmds.

They know FULL well about stop loss policies seeing as they live it you piece of shit.

You are just like Taoman.....

"You know fuckin jack SHIT about what a military person does.

You have NOT been in the military. And talking to disaffected, lazy mother fuckers, who have been,to gleen your stupid ass information,of what does and doesnt happen in the military, doesnt fuckin qualify!"

 

[BrianH]

yea THINK? it's not military wartime policy that recruiters use to lure kids into service, is it? How many recruits think about stop loss policies while whupping some ass on the latest Force of One video game? If anything, a movie like this will inform more potential recruits of the very real possibility of stop loss that that is EXACTLY what people who would rail against the movie doesn't want to happen.


Like I said.. it's just like ignoring the caskets of dead soldiers coming home from iraq since the facade of winning has been going on for a couple years now.

I don't know about ignoring the caskets of the dead. Most of us know that they're coming in. I think ignoring caskets is an element of war that you must avoid. If we had not ignored caskets coming in from WWII or WWI, the U.S. citizen would be having a fit, just like the Vietnam days with naming the casualties on the news. (Still do that today, but not as bad).

I agree that it'll make potential recruits aware of the Stop-loss policy. I don't have a problem with the movie being released, I just was curious if it would do more harm than good or vice-versa........

 

[dread]

What bullshit. Hollywood doesn't give a flying fuck what people believe about the military. Just like the right, it's all about making money.

BULLSHIT! Maybe your age has demented your brain because you are sooo out of touch with reality. Hollywood has all kinds of agendas. Like making the world go green. Hating America...Hating the military.


And if you cant see that then there is no help for you. How many movies have you seen supporting the war? How many movies have come out vilifying the war AND the military. And yet interestingly enough all those anti war films seem to tank.


So much for your hypothesis that they are all about making money.

 

[manifold]

I heard that there is currently 75,000 stop-loss troops serving in Iraq.

I understand the need for the policy. But it's just one more example of the Bush administration abusing every power at it's disposal.

Just wars have never required conscription of any kind. Just sayin...

 

[Shogun]

They know FULL well about stop loss policies seeing as they live it you piece of shit.

You are just like Taoman.....

"You know fuckin jack SHIT about what a military person does.

You have NOT been in the military. And talking to disaffected, lazy mother fuckers, who have been,to gleen your stupid ass information,of what does and doesnt happen in the military, doesnt fuckin qualify!"

CLEARLY, they know about stop loss policies.. which is why we DONT see a social reaction to such policies leading to lowing the standards for recruitment, eh?


The Army's recruiting sucess was not without price. During Fiscal Year 2007, only 79 percent of the new recruits entering the Army possessed a high school diploma. The DOD standard is that at least 90 percent of new recruits should have a high school diploma. The other services met or exceeded the 90 percent goal.

The Army also approved more criminal history waivers than they have in years past. About 15 percent of new recruits required a criminal history waiver. 87 percent of those approved waivers were because of misdemeanor convictions, and the remainder for more serious offenses, including felonies.
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/07recruiting.htm



but hey.. don't let facts get in your way of cussing at me as if such a thing makes me flinch.

*yawn*


Trust me, pussy... you are not the only person in america with family in the military. I realize that you re probably the type to sacrifice your kid on the alter of your personal political ego but we can all trow profanity around. Try making your case without looking like a fucking ignorant cocksheath.

 

[Shogun]

I don't know about ignoring the caskets of the dead. Most of us know that they're coming in. I think ignoring caskets is an element of war that you must avoid. If we had not ignored caskets coming in from WWII or WWI, the U.S. citizen would be having a fit, just like the Vietnam days with naming the casualties on the news. (Still do that today, but not as bad).

I agree that it'll make potential recruits aware of the Stop-loss policy. I don't have a problem with the movie being released, I just was curious if it would do more harm than good or vice-versa........

hey.. there are more products of W stickers and sabre rattling than giving a war the fluffy packaging that makes it easier to sell to the American population. Comparing iraq to WW2 is about as stupid as the domino theory, too.

As for weather such a movie does more harm than good, if pussies like dread were so convicted of the necessity of such a human sacrifice now as he was in 04 then this kind of info wouldn't matter to him. As it is, the creeping validity of this erronious war, and stop loss policies thereof, IS being reflected in recruitment even if pussies like dread can wrap themselves up in a flag and pretend that "i support the military" car magnets really mean anything to anyone besides the chinese kid making 2 cents off of each one he makes.


<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/H-igc3f8fcI&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/H-igc3f8fcI&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

 

[eots]

That's only because my daughter...Hell both my girls have more intestinal fortitude than your punk ass. God you are fuckin wuss! What with your pussy scared ass you might as well not bother to go on living. Do yourself a favor and quit while you are ahead.

the military is hardly the definitive test of intestinal fortitude..especialy the navy..I was a deep-sea commercial diver for many years and a commercial fishermen spending up to 40 days at a time at sea in a 50 ft boat..I have been involved in extremely dangerous successfully rescues at sea...i worked for several years in private security and during that time made arrest on two separate occasions of violent criminals that had assaulted someone on my patrol..and yes... my punk ass toured the nation in a punk rock band a played ever sleazy dive ...I'm not scared of much..and living is a lot of fun..so i will keep on truckin..besides have a 18 yr old daughter..a 20 yr old son that still live with me and a two yr old boy im taking care of while mom (who is beautiful and 15 years younger than me) finishes university...

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I heard that there is currently 75,000 stop-loss troops serving in Iraq.

I understand the need for the policy. But it's just one more example of the Bush administration abusing every power at it's disposal.

Just wars have never required conscription of any kind. Just sayin...

So WW2 had no stop loss? No conscription? Are you stupid? In WW2 not only were you IN for the duration you served continously AT the front, there was no state side rotation num nuts. You got off the line only if your unit got assigned off the line. But do tell us all about your great grasp of military history.

 

[BrianH]

hey.. there are more products of W stickers and sabre rattling than giving a war the fluffy packaging that makes it easier to sell to the American population. Comparing iraq to WW2 is about as stupid as the domino theory, too.

As for weather such a movie does more harm than good, if pussies like dread were so convicted of the necessity of such a human sacrifice now as he was in 04 then this kind of info wouldn't matter to him. As it is, the creeping validity of this erronious war, and stop loss policies thereof, IS being reflected in recruitment even if pussies like dread can wrap themselves up in a flag and pretend that "i support the military" car magnets really mean anything to anyone besides the chinese kid making 2 cents off of each one he makes.


<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/H-igc3f8fcI&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/H-igc3f8fcI&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

Shog, ease up, you're getting way to worked up over a movie....

First off, I never said Iraq was similar to WWII.....I said that "showing" and calling attention to caskets is something the military doesn't want done, because of moral in the soldiers as well as the citizens.

I compared the effect of ignoring caskets between WWII, Vietnam, and Iraq. In Vietnam, every night they would announce the dead on television, this made the citizens see the effects and results first hand, turning their tide against the war. I garauntee that if Vietnam had equal press as WWII and WWI, there would have been a hell of a lot more support for it. (I'm not saying that it's right, but it's true)

Would the U.S. have elected a president in a wheel-chair? Makes you wonder what ignoring and not showing something will do.