Squashing The Ignorance. Republican Health Care Plans Exposed

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Hey you edited.

The plan described in that article sounds almost as bad as pelosi's 1900+ page plan. I dont like it either.

They really need to start with clamping down on INS companies contractual obligations to their customers (this means they need to make it illegal for the companies, once they agree to extend you coverage, to deny you coverage if you get sick)

I mean how hard would it be to pass a bill which only deals with this one aspect. I guarantee 90% of americans would support a bill that did this and only this.

I'm not I responded here, you missed it because I missed your link as the response you quoted was made while you were editing the post.


WryCatcher your argument has a hole in it, how many democrat plans were put forth by the dem minority during that same time period in relation to health care? See what I mean neither side did squat after hillary got blocked by the republicans who were in control back then.

My question is very specific, your resonse is a red herring, and appears to be an effort to censor the queston too.
It appears the Republican Party is a shill for the health insurance industry and big pharma, they hope to kill reform, an action against the will of the majority of the American people. Sadly, this is also true for too many Democrats.

PS, the allegation that my argument "has a hole in it" has been exposed for what it is - partisan bull shit. Otherwise proof would have been offered. It was another example of the passive agressive style of a member of the conservative chic, hit and run.

Your initial question was the red herring which is why your argument had a huge hole in it. Your question is a red herring for the EXACT reason you called my response to it a red herring. I intentionally took the red herring you threw out there and threw it right back at you.




MajikMist I'm not ignoring you, I need a few minutes to go through your post and give you a decent response....and man i know my typing isn't perfect by try and edit some of those typos out of there, it makes it harder to read your post if you don't. Give me an hour and i'll respond. Is it ok with you if I edit in numbers to your post so i can respond to each question more accurately?

 

[SFC Ollie]

I thought the Idea was originally to make Health insurance more affordable, with the end result being that everyone or most people would have health insurance.

Unless i am totally on some other planet, the Health Care bills I've seen do not do anything towards that end result.

I see added taxes and penalties. I see more government offices and more Government control.

I see cuts in Medicare and maybe medicaid.

What I don't see is any insurance plans that will cost less.

Therefore, We all lose.

Take it all and burn it and start all over again; this time maybe keeping the goal in mind.

Unless of course the true goal was to take over control of the countries health care system. Then they have got that going along pretty good. USSA here we go.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I'm not I responded here, you missed it because I missed your link as the response you quoted was made while you were editing the post.


WryCatcher your argument has a hole in it, how many democrat plans were put forth by the dem minority during that same time period in relation to health care? See what I mean neither side did squat after hillary got blocked by the republicans who were in control back then.

My question is very specific, your resonse is a red herring, and appears to be an effort to censor the queston too.
It appears the Republican Party is a shill for the health insurance industry and big pharma, they hope to kill reform, an action against the will of the majority of the American people. Sadly, this is also true for too many Democrats.

PS, the allegation that my argument "has a hole in it" has been exposed for what it is - partisan bull shit. Otherwise proof would have been offered. It was another example of the passive agressive style of a member of the conservative chic, hit and run.

Your initial question was the red herring which is why your argument had a huge hole in it. Your question is a red herring for the EXACT reason you called my response to it a red herring. I intentionally took the red herring you threw out there and threw it right back at you.




MajikMist I'm not ignoring you, I need a few minutes to go through your post and give you a decent response....and man i know my typing isn't perfect by try and edit some of those typos out of there, it makes it harder to read your post if you don't. Give me an hour and i'll respond. Is it ok with you if I edit in numbers to your post so i can respond to each question more accurately?

"Your initial question was the red herring which is why your argument had a huge hole in it. Your question is a red herring for the EXACT reason you called my response to it a red herring. I intentionally took the red herring you threw out there and threw it right back at you. "

Sure you did. Thanks for sharing.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Below is the timeline of my exhange with you Wry Catcher

Now, I'm just asking, and I admit to not looking up any of those bills, but given:
The Republican Party controlled both houses of Congress from 1995 until 2007. And, the Republican's held the White House from 2001 until 2009.
How many bills, and how many of the listed bills, to reform health care in America were introduced when the Republicans were in power?

WryCatcher your argument has a hole in it, how many democrat plans were put forth by the dem minority during that same time period in relation to health care? See what I mean neither side did squat after hillary got blocked by the republicans who were in control back then.

My question is very specific, your resonse is a red herring, and appears to be an effort to censor the queston too.
It appears the Republican Party is a shill for the health insurance industry and big pharma, they hope to kill reform, an action against the will of the majority of the American people. Sadly, this is also true for too many Democrats.

PS, the allegation that my argument "has a hole in it" has been exposed for what it is - partisan bull shit. Otherwise proof would have been offered. It was another example of the passive agressive style of a member of the conservative chic, hit and run.

Your initial question was the red herring which is why your argument had a huge hole in it. Your question is a red herring for the EXACT reason you called my response to it a red herring. I intentionally took the red herring you threw out there and threw it right back at you.

Sure you did. Thanks for sharing.

There it is so people reading can understand the full context of our little internet argument.

BTW Thank you for the -1 rep point, it was worth losing the 1 point to find out what kind of internet person you are.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

1) Since many of you didn't actually read those.. I would like someone preferably Pilfgram to explain how any of that is going to help real america and uninsured america??

2) Most of them are tax deductibles, discounts, and various other ways at making the rich and insurance companies richer.. They don't actually help the uninsured american..

3) So Pilgram? What is the rebuttlican plan?? Besided having their lips permanently glued to the ass of insurance.. Let's see some real answers..

4) How are you going to make healthcare available to those that can't afford it or are currently unemployed due to lay off's thanks to the Bush economy??

5) How are you going to persuade insurance companies to lower their costs and provide better care??

6) What regulations are you going to impose on insurance companies to prevent them from dropping coverage when someone gets sick??

7) What regulations are you going to impose on the insurance to prevent them from denying covarege due to a pre-existing condition??

So let's see it?? What are the answers from the rebuttlicans?? No more tax cuts and deductables.. We all know you morons hate to fund the government and don't want to pay taxes...

Personally, I think you all should just move to a deserted island.. You would all be dead in less then a year.. You would have no government cause you don't want to pay taxes.. You would all have guns cause you don't want gun control.. Which means than when someone is killed, enforciung the law, if you have any would be up to you.. Please send me what you would like your obiturary to say.. Nevermind, you all wouldn't have a news paper either.. You wouldn't want to pay the subsidies to them..

1) there are several specific republican bills adress the affordability of health care, here are my 3 favorites: HR198, HR544/3508, HR502 (you can just type HR and the Bill number into google followed by the word TEXT if you want to read what is in the bill)

As far as uninsured america gaining more access these are my 3 favorite proposed republican bills HR879, hr3218, hr3823

These bills seek to reduce the expense of health care to those who have it through tax deductions and tax exempt health savings account. The 2nd set of 3 bills would help the uninsured by extending financial help to those who make under 2x the poverty line

2) The tax deductions are for individuals and it is a deduction for their direct health care expenses. These deductions will not help poor people which is what HR879 was written to do, provide financial help to poorer families.

3) Read this post and the actual bills listed in the OP for your answer

4) see #2

5) HR502. It allows the purchase of insurance across state lines to increase competition to drive down prices. It does so in the same way that Obama and Pelosi have told us the public option would without creating a new beurocracy.

6) This one the Republicans do NOT have a good plan for. I personally think we should have a single bill that creates regulations requiring the insurance companies, once they agree to extend you coverage, to live up to their end of the contract and provide you the coverage no matter how sick you get. Even if you had a pre-existing condition. This can be done in one simple piece of legislation and if this is the ONLY thing in the legislation I can guarantee you 90% of americans would back the legislation. Like I said the republicans have no decent plan in this area.

7) see #6

This type of posting/behavior does not help create any kind of consensus. Speaking to me, or anyone else online, in this way typically will only push someone away from your statements. Many times this type of behavior can even discredit any valid points you may make within your post. I will continue to debate with you but leave the schoolyard insults at the door please.

 

[Maple]

How many new health care threads are going to keep containing the lie that Republicans have no health insurance reform plans?

Seriously you people need to be mugged by the truth.

Curious question, have you bothered to read all of those bills or are you just saying "Republicans have a plan! I win!"?

Because they have shit like this:

GOP Alternative Will Not Bar Discrimination Based On Pre-Existing Conditions – Talk Radio News Service

Have you read the 1990 pages of the dems version of health care reform????????????? I win now.

 

[Maple]

I thought the Idea was originally to make Health insurance more affordable, with the end result being that everyone or most people would have health insurance.

Unless i am totally on some other planet, the Health Care bills I've seen do not do anything towards that end result.

I see added taxes and penalties. I see more government offices and more Government control.

I see cuts in Medicare and maybe medicaid.

What I don't see is any insurance plans that will cost less.

Therefore, We all lose.

Take it all and burn it and start all over again; this time maybe keeping the goal in mind.

Unless of course the true goal was to take over control of the countries health care system. Then they have got that going along pretty good. USSA here we go.

I could not agree more, The CBO came out and stated that this bill will be well over the 1 trillion dollar mark and it still does not include the doctor legislation which is another 250 billion. It still won't cover EVERYONE, it's going to cause the cost of our health care to go through the roof, it will not reduce costs.

Burn the damn thing, it will make a nice warm fire for someone and start over with step by step details to control costs, make insurance more affordable so more people can purchase it, maintain quality etc. All of this can be done through legislation.

 

[Maple]

Now, I'm just asking, and I admit to not looking up any of those bills, but given:
The Republican Party controlled both houses of Congress from 1995 until 2007. And, the Republican's held the White House from 2001 until 2009.
How many bills, and how many of the listed bills, to reform health care in America were introduced when the Republicans were in power?

HSA's ( Health savings accounts) these are pre-tax dollars, they are totally portable plans, you own it, and if you do not use it you can roll it into a 401k. These are great high deductible plans that covers catastrophic loses. They were introduced in 2005 and many small business's enjoy the benefits of these plans today. Bush did this.

Bush also worked hard to get tort reform but at the time he had to deal with a democratic controlled congress who wants nothing to do with tort reform, because the TRAIL LAWYER LOBBYISTS are huge contributors to democratic campaigns.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Now, I'm just asking, and I admit to not looking up any of those bills, but given:
The Republican Party controlled both houses of Congress from 1995 until 2007. And, the Republican's held the White House from 2001 until 2009.
How many bills, and how many of the listed bills, to reform health care in America were introduced when the Republicans were in power?

HSA's ( Health savings accounts) these are pre-tax dollars, they are totally portable plans, you own it, and if you do not use it you can roll it into a 401k. These are great high deductible plans that covers catastrophic loses. They were introduced in 2005 and many small business's enjoy the benefits of these plans today. Bush did this.

Bush also worked hard to get tort reform but at the time he had to deal with a democratic controlled congress who wants nothing to do with tort reform, because the TRAIL LAWYER LOBBYISTS are huge contributors to democratic campaigns.

I was going to use that if this line of debate kept up in the same tone it has for the last few posts

 

[MajikMyst]

So??? Other than? HR198, HR544/3508, HR502 and other such meaningless answers.. You have none..

But I will give you the benefit of the doubt.. Please explain in plain and simple english, not code and not anything that requires translations..

What is the republican answer for insuring the 45 million or so unisnured?? In simple english..

Many of the uninsured can't afforf premiums but have a job.. Take someone that works at target or any other job that is barely above minimum wage? Some making that much can't really afford about $100 dollars a month for insurance which ultimately is going to suck and require them to pay a deductable of say $500 dollars before the insurance even pays a penny..

So here you have a worker that doesn't make enough to live on thier own, can't afford the deductable let alone the premiums.. Such is the reality if every entry level worker in America.. Which is about 70% of the work force..

How are republicans going to help those people??

Tell me how you are going to lower premiums and deductables at the same time increase coverage and quality of care??

Tell us what the republican plan is?

How are you going to get insurance companies to not deny someone insurance because they have a sun tan calling it a pre-existing condition?

You don't need numbers here.. Tell us what the plan is to provide america with healthcare?

Becasue if you can't then the other answer is the truth.. Republicans want you die quickly or not get sick..

This issue doesn't get any simplier than this..

 

[Zander]

Get your own insurance. That is the Republican plan. Gotta problem with that? Too bad! It is not the governments job to take care of your every need. Want free health care? Go on welfare, get a government job, or move to another country. Take personal responsibility for your own lives.

 

[Claudette]

Jesus. Doesn't anyone in Congress have any common sense? Fix the problem, Cost, not remake the whole system with the Govt controlling 6% of our economy. Does anyone here really want the Govt controlling healthcare in this country? The Govt that can't do anything right. The Govt that turns everything into a giant expensive cluster****.

If they pass healthcare what next?? We already have Govt run auto companies. Govt run banks and Tzars all over the place. They will tell us what we can eat. What kind of car we need to drive and if that cap and trade bs passes just watch your energy bill go sky high along with the cost of everything else.

Seriously. The American people better wake up and smell the coffee or we will have no freedoms left in this country at all. You will have the Govt in every aspect of your life not just healthcare.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

So??? Other than? HR198, HR544/3508, HR502 and other such meaningless answers.. You have none..

But I will give you the benefit of the doubt.. Please explain in plain and simple english, not code and not anything that requires translations..

What is the republican answer for insuring the 45 million or so unisnured?? In simple english..

Many of the uninsured can't afforf premiums but have a job.. Take someone that works at target or any other job that is barely above minimum wage? Some making that much can't really afford about $100 dollars a month for insurance which ultimately is going to suck and require them to pay a deductable of say $500 dollars before the insurance even pays a penny..

So here you have a worker that doesn't make enough to live on thier own, can't afford the deductable let alone the premiums.. Such is the reality if every entry level worker in America.. Which is about 70% of the work force..

How are republicans going to help those people??

Tell me how you are going to lower premiums and deductables at the same time increase coverage and quality of care??

Tell us what the republican plan is?

How are you going to get insurance companies to not deny someone insurance because they have a sun tan calling it a pre-existing condition?

You don't need numbers here.. Tell us what the plan is to provide america with healthcare?

Becasue if you can't then the other answer is the truth.. Republicans want you die quickly or not get sick..

This issue doesn't get any simplier than this..

I just answered your questions in this post http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...-health-care-plans-exposed-3.html#post1677931 but i understand that the language in the bills can be difficult to read. Here are 2 videos that may be easier to understand.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRJJRTT4HUA&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - A health care plan for America[/ame]


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7JECnTm9P4&feature=channel[/ame]

 

[MajikMyst]

Get your own insurance. That is the Republican plan. Gotta problem with that? Too bad! It is not the governments job to take care of your every need. Want free health care? Go on welfare, get a government job, or move to another country. Take personal responsibility for your own lives.

So.. Die quickly is the answer..

And as a tax payer.. The governments job is whatever I tell it to do..

But hey.. By your position, we don't need a military eithe.. No police, no fire department, no highway system..

Your answer is DIE QUICKLY!

Nobody as asking for free healthcare.. But thanks for the ignorance on your part..

 

[MajikMyst]

Pilgrim? Do you know how to type??

Write it your freaken self!! Asnwer the damn questions!! Support your position with your own words!! Don't give someone some obscure link to a bunch of gargbage..

Answer the damn questions!!

If you can't then just admit it!!

What ideas do republicans have that will ACTUALLY cut costs and make healthcare more affordable for everyone??

I don't want to see tax breaks and deductables.. And if that is your answer then you have none!!

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Pilgrim? Do you know how to type??

Write it your freaken self!! Asnwer the damn questions!! Support your position with your own words!! Don't give someone some obscure link to a bunch of gargbage..

Answer the damn questions!!

If you can't then just admit it!!

What ideas do republicans have that will ACTUALLY cut costs and make healthcare more affordable for everyone??

I don't want to see tax breaks and deductables.. And if that is your answer then you have none!!

From your previous response I thought you had trouble understanding what I was saying to you. Here let me try another way


H.R. 2607: Small Business Healthcare Fairness Act would expand access to health coverage by creating Small Business Health Plans. These would allow small businesses to band together through associations to pool their risk.

H.R. 3218 Improving Health Care for All Americans Act would provide tax equity to individuals buying health insurance. It would also create expanded options for the purchase of low-cost health care from new pooling mechanisms.

H.R. 3821 Improved Employee Access to Health Insurance Act would prohibit states from enacting laws which keep employers from ‘auto-enrolling’ employees in currently offered health benefit plans, provided the employee has the option to opt out with no penalty. Research suggests that auto-enrollment mechanisms, by overcoming inertia and complexity, could increase coverage levels dramatically. In contrast to a federal mandate that all Americans must purchase insurance or face fines, the approach taken in this bill would protect individuals’ ability to make their own health care decisions.

H.R. 3822: Improved Access to Employer Financed Health Insurance Act would allow employers who do not offer insurance to provide tax-free defined contributions to workers’ individually purchased insurance policies. Further, it would reform existing rules governing insurance markets that make it difficult for employers to help their workers buy health insurance on the individual market.

H.R. 3823: Medicaid and SCHIP Beneficiary Choice Improvement Act would provide all Americans on Medicaid and SCHIP the ability to use premium assistance to purchase private insurance instead of participating in the government-run option.

H.R. 3824: Expanded Health Insurance Options Act would authorize states to form regional compacts that will govern the sale of health insurance, which will increase the size of insurance pool and reduce premiums by spreading risk among a larger number of participants.

H.R. 3887: Health Insurance Access for Young Workers and College Students Act would require that insurance companies continue to cover dependents up to age 25. In the age group 19-24, 30 percent are uninsured (about 7.3 million) and this bill will target that key population.

H.R. 1086: HEALTH Act – this medical liability reform bill utilizes caps to help bring down costs. This bill will prevent double recoveries and limits the number of years plaintiffs can file suit.

H.R. 3002: Patients Act would protect patients by prohibiting the use of data obtained from comparative effectiveness research to deny coverage of items or services under Federal Health Care programs. This basically prevents the rationing of care.

 

[MajikMyst]

Pilgram, listen to your own videos!! He he is spouting garbage.. No real ideas!!

He never says HOW he is going to do anything he says or WHY is right about anything..

Every nation that has a government controled health plan is kicking our ass on almost every statistic that you can measure quality healthcare by..

How are you going to lower cost?? How are you going to promote competition? How are you going to prevent denials of coverage for such things as pre-existing conditions or simply getting sick...

Show me some real answers.. You think about this!! You write it!!

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Pilgram, listen to your own videos!! He he is spouting garbage.. No real ideas!!

He never .. says HOW he is going to do anything he says or WHY is right about anything

Every nation that has a government controled health plan is kicking our ass on almost every statistic that you can measure quality healthcare by..

How are you going to lower cost?? How are you going to promote competition? How are you going to prevent denials of coverage for such things as pre-existing conditions or simply getting sick...

Show me some real answers.. You think about this!! You write it!!

To me those are real answers to you they are "garbage"

For me the Obama/Pelosi bill that just passed is "garbage" and has no real answers. It leaves millions uninsured, raises the cost of insurance coverage on all americans, and takes away our rights to choose what kind of coverage we want to buy.

We see the situation very differently. I already answered those questions more than one time. I will answer one last time

Tort Reform to lower operating costs for the care end

Ability to purchase across state lines to lower cost through competition(promotes competition in the EXACT same way that the public option is said too without creating a new beurocracy),

Create new legislation about pre-existing conditions on its own, not wrapped up with a bunch of other items

Create new legislation to prevent denial of coverage under the contract insurance companies agree to when they extend you competition, on its own also.


EDIT: In the future if you are going to question my ability to type you really should learn how to type my name properly, it leaves you wide open for childish attacks.

 

[MajikMyst]

Pilgrim? Do you know how to type??

Write it your freaken self!! Asnwer the damn questions!! Support your position with your own words!! Don't give someone some obscure link to a bunch of gargbage..

Answer the damn questions!!

If you can't then just admit it!!

What ideas do republicans have that will ACTUALLY cut costs and make healthcare more affordable for everyone??

I don't want to see tax breaks and deductables.. And if that is your answer then you have none!!

From your previous response I thought you had trouble understanding what I was saying to you. Here let me try another way


H.R. 2607: Small Business Healthcare Fairness Act would expand access to health coverage by creating Small Business Health Plans. These would allow small businesses to band together through associations to pool their risk.

Does nothing to provide healthcare to those that don't have it, or make it more affordable to those that don't have healthcare..

H.R. 3218 Improving Health Care for All Americans Act would provide tax equity to individuals buying health insurance. It would also create expanded options for the purchase of low-cost health care from new pooling mechanisms.

Again, does nothing except provide a tax cut..

H.R. 3821 Improved Employee Access to Health Insurance Act would prohibit states from enacting laws which keep employers from ‘auto-enrolling’ employees in currently offered health benefit plans, provided the employee has the option to opt out with no penalty. Research suggests that auto-enrollment mechanisms, by overcoming inertia and complexity, could increase coverage levels dramatically. In contrast to a federal mandate that all Americans must purchase insurance or face fines, the approach taken in this bill would protect individuals’ ability to make their own health care decisions.

Does nothing to prevent health insurance from denying coverage or canceling a policy..

H.R. 3822: Improved Access to Employer Financed Health Insurance Act would allow employers who do not offer insurance to provide tax-free defined contributions to workers’ individually purchased insurance policies. Further, it would reform existing rules governing insurance markets that make it difficult for employers to help their workers buy health insurance on the individual market.

Oh look!! Another tax cut..

H.R. 3823: Medicaid and SCHIP Beneficiary Choice Improvement Act would provide all Americans on Medicaid and SCHIP the ability to use premium assistance to purchase private insurance instead of participating in the government-run option.

So here is a program to help buy private insurance?? Wow!! Can anyone say die quickly??

H.R. 3824: Expanded Health Insurance Options Act would authorize states to form regional compacts that will govern the sale of health insurance, which will increase the size of insurance pool and reduce premiums by spreading risk among a larger number of participants.

This possibly has potential.. Question is does it have any teeth and how will it work??

H.R. 3887: Health Insurance Access for Young Workers and College Students Act would require that insurance companies continue to cover dependents up to age 25. In the age group 19-24, 30 percent are uninsured (about 7.3 million) and this bill will target that key population.

Here is the conservative buzz word?? Who pays for it?? Parents??

H.R. 1086: HEALTH Act – this medical liability reform bill utilizes caps to help bring down costs. This bill will prevent double recoveries and limits the number of years plaintiffs can file suit.

How much is your dead mother worth?? How bout we charge doctors with a crime when they screw up and kill someone and we can simply get rid of law suits all together.. I would be nice to see a doc in prison for killing someone instead of paying a family millions..

H.R. 3002: Patients Act would protect patients by prohibiting the use of data obtained from comparative effectiveness research to deny coverage of items or services under Federal Health Care programs. This basically prevents the rationing of care.

This is meaningless.. Who is on federal health care?? Just seniors on medicare.. Which don't get denied anyways.. Only in the private sector is there rationing of care..

So a whole lot of nothing if you ask me..

Again still no answer on how to cover the 45 million uninsured..

 

[MajikMyst]

There you go.. No real answers..

Still haven't addressed the 45 million uninsured.. Still haven't addressed pre-existing conditions.. Stil haven't addressed over all cost to consumers.. Still haven't addressed competition to drive cost down..

Public option takes care of all of the above.. Slicker than snot!!

So what is you answer??

Another tax cut??