Soviet Union

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Lucky C, May 5, 2004.

  1. Lucky C
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    Lucky C Guest

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    Hi,

    Sorry if this is posted in the wrong place, but I'm looking for opinions from all sides of the political spectrum as to why the soviet union (specifically Poland) collapsed in 1989. I need this information for a university assignment so please give me your intelligent opinions.

    Thanks
     
  2. insein
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    insein Senior Member

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    The soviet structure was socialist by nature and communist in practice. Meaning the government takes all the peoples money under the guise that the state is the one true ruler. All the money was put into the Cold War. They built rockets and tanks and guns instead of schools and farms. The living standards were deplorable.

    If left uncontested by America and Reagan, the SU would have expanded and gathered more people to sustain itself for a longer period of time. It would have ultimately failed due to its flawed governmental structure, but Reagan's willingness to combat the SU instead of appeasing it brought about its destruction much quicker.

    Capitalism and the Republic of America were capable of having sustained schools, food and living standards while competing in an arms race due to its free market economy. The closed market of the SU where all money goes to the state and is redistributed by the state creates dependancy on the state to provide everything and eliminates the independance and motiviation of the individual to achieve better standards for themselves. Why do they need to work harder when the state provides everything? So why waste more energy then the next guy? That is the inherant flaw in socialism and communism.
     
  3. DKSuddeth
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    DKSuddeth Senior Member

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    It's not a flaw in socialism or communism, its a flaw in human nature.
     
  4. rtwngAvngr
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    rtwngAvngr Guest

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    The flaw is in the system which denies human nature, not human nature.

    "communism is perfect, we are flawed" --bullshit
     
  5. DKSuddeth
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    DKSuddeth Senior Member

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    I stand by what I said. It's a flaw in human nature, not the system.

    No system is perfect, including ours, despite the fact that you wish it to be.
     
  6. rtwngAvngr
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    Self interest is a flaw in human nature?
    Stand by it. You're on sinking ground.

    Socialism and communism are idiotic in that they ignore the fact that people are motivated by self interest; ours does not, it is better. It has been proven better by any objective measure. Standard of living, rate of growth, environmental impact, ability to raise an army, technological innovation on and on.
     
  7. DKSuddeth
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    DKSuddeth Senior Member

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    in other words - BLAH BLAH BLAH.

    you are still handicapped with the inability to see more than one facet of the gem.

    Humans are flawed, you can't deny it honestly.

    greed, hate, spite, envy. These are all a part of human nature which leaves us flawed. It is these flaws which cause all systems to be imperfect, including ours.
     
  8. insein
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    insein Senior Member

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    Humans are flawed and there in lies the flaw of socialism and communism to deny the existence of our fallability. Socialism ignores this flaw and sees humanity as genuinely good. This is an ultimate irony since Communist and Socialist regimes usually end up being led by the worst examples of humanity.

    People are selfish by nature. Your personal survival or survival of your offspring and mate is the ultimate goal by anyone. So if you live in a society where you are supposedly taken care of by the state, then there is no need to work as hard as you would if you were the one providing.
     
  9. Hobbit
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    Hobbit Senior Member

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    Okay, first off:

    Yes, humans are imperfect. However, humans have been imperfect for thousands of years of recorded history, and any system that assumes they aren't is guilty of stupidity.

    Capitalism isn't perfect. Many people slip through the cracks. However, it's a lot better than communism.

    Now, for your project.

    Communism was a failed regime since it was an oppressive regime in which the individual had no rights. Communism was a socialist government in which the state was charged with the distribution of all resources and the assignmet of jobs. You did what you were best at, period. This lack of individual freedom, combined with the overall selfishness and inneffectuality of the government, caused the people to object and rebel, eventually resulting in the downfall of the system. Even in a repressive regime, capitalism is a far superior economic system, as all people have a hope that they can rise above poverty, even if it's a futile hope.
     
  10. rtwngAvngr
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    http://www.yale.edu/yrb/summer01/review02.htm

    "Singer’s argument boils down to this: the left will be better able to achieve its social and political agenda if it acknowledges and incorporates a more accurate understanding of human nature into its worldview. He believes that the best tool we have to unravel the mysteries of our common behavior is sociobiology, and that if the left doesn’t embrace the science and what it can tell us, leftist ideology will necessarily be flawed, perhaps tragically so."

    “To be blind to the facts about human nature is to risk disaster,” writes Singer. So what does he believe are the left’s major misunderstandings about human nature that Darwin can correct?_ First and foremost is the left’s belief in the great plasticity of human behavior. Marxism is based on the notion that human nature is the product of an “ensemble of the social relations” and is therefore highly malleable. This malleability, according to Singer, dominates the left’s worldview and goes back all the way to Locke and his idea of the mind as a “white Paper, void of all characters, without any ideas.”_ The standard social science model, which dominates the left’s ideology and owes itself to Locke’s notion of a tabula rasa, views human nature, as Emile Durkheim put it, as “merely the indeterminate material that the social factor molds and transforms.” In essence, the standard social science model doesn’t believe in an inherent human nature beyond the most rudimentary biological constraints.

    The idea of man’s malleability, present in both Marxist ideology and the standard social science model, leads to a belief in the inherent equality of men, and to a faith in education as the great panacea. According to Singer, it is also behind the left’s dream of a perfect human being living in a perfectly utopian society. But, Singer warns, a Darwinian acknowledgement of the many relatively fixed aspects of human nature tells us that man is not perfectible, and neither are his societies. One of the great errors of Marxism was its confidence that hierarchies could be abolished in an egalitarian revolution. Singer believes that if the left had only possessed a Darwinian understanding that the formation of hierarchies is inherent in human nature, the authoritarian horrors of Stalinism might have been prevented.
     

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