Some Army Officers may face charges for not Reporting Abu Nidal

[Contessa_Sharra]

Just heard this on the news but can't seem to find it on the web.

This might just light a fire under those adopting a laissez-faire attitude over eratic behavior.....

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

Army Officers May be Punished for Ft. Hood - CBS News

Official Tells AP up to 8 Officers Face Inquiry, Possible Punishment for Missing Signs of Hasan's Mindset

(AP) Pentagon inquiry into the case of the alleged Fort Hood shooter could lead to punishment of up to eight Army officers, a U.S. official said late Thursday.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates was expected to refer findings on the officers to the Army for further inquiry and possible punishment. The report on what went wrong in the case of Army Maj. Nidal Hasan, who is accused in the shootings, is expected to be released Friday.

The official said a Pentagon inquiry finds fault with five to eight supervisors who knew or should have known about the shortcomings and erratic behavior of the shooting suspect. Hasan is accused of killing 13 people at the Texas Army base on Nov. 5.


The officers supervised Hasan when he was a medical student and during his early work as an Army psychiatrist at Walter Reed Army Medical Center.

The official described the confidential report on condition of anonymity because it has not been made public.

According to information gathered during the internal Pentagon review and obtained by The Associated Press last week, Hasan's strident views on Islam became more pronounced as his training progressed. Worries about his competence also grew, yet his superiors continued to give him positive performance evaluations that kept him moving through the ranks. That led to his eventual assignment at Fort Hood.

Recent statistics show the Army rarely blocks junior officers from promotion, especially in the medical corps.

 

[Gunny]

It's called scapegoats. Somebody has to pay. Let's trim down those retirement checks. The military mentality sucks. Spend too much time eating our own to appease bleeding fucking heart liberals.

 

[California Girl]

It's called scapegoats. Somebody has to pay. Let's trim down those retirement checks. The military mentality sucks. Spend too much time eating our own to appease bleeding fucking heart liberals.

Do you seriously think that Contessa is gonna actually get the point your making?

 

[Gunny]

It's called scapegoats. Somebody has to pay. Let's trim down those retirement checks. The military mentality sucks. Spend too much time eating our own to appease bleeding fucking heart liberals.

Do you seriously think that Contessa is gonna actually get the point your making?

She hasn't since she joined. She's one of those "in-dull-ectually" elite types.

 

[California Girl]

It's called scapegoats. Somebody has to pay. Let's trim down those retirement checks. The military mentality sucks. Spend too much time eating our own to appease bleeding fucking heart liberals.

Do you seriously think that Contessa is gonna actually get the point your making?

She hasn't since she joined. She's one of those "in-dull-ectually" elite types.

I think she must be really, really 'vertically challenged', since points often sail right over her head.

 

[Granny]

If you all will remember, back when this incident occurred there was a good deal said about fear in the brass of "political correctness" possibly leading to claims of religious and/or ethnic discrimination as part of the problem with not taking serious steps toward dealing with this guy's escalating erratic behavior. It seems like nothing is being said about "political correctness" playing a part in the inaction of superior officers in promotions, transfers, etc.

That doesn't relieve the brass. They should have said, "Screw political correctness; lives are at stake; we have a problem psychiatrist on our hands; we need to act now." Things being what they are the general public may never know all the results of the Pentagon reports or what the Commission overseeing the investigation was told.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

If you all will remember, back when this incident occurred there was a good deal said about fear in the brass of "political correctness" possibly leading to claims of religious and/or ethnic discrimination as part of the problem with not taking serious steps toward dealing with this guy's escalating erratic behavior. It seems like nothing is being said about "political correctness" playing a part in the inaction of superior officers in promotions, transfers, etc.

That doesn't relieve the brass. They should have said, "Screw political correctness; lives are at stake; we have a problem psychiatrist on our hands; we need to act now." Things being what they are the general public may never know all the results of the Pentagon reports or what the Commission overseeing the investigation was told.

A real Marine said that in the Marine Corps those in command are responsible when those under their direct supervision fuck up. Apparently the Army does not function that way. That is pretty pathetic, It seems that in the Army, the higher ups never have any responsibility for what goes on. There does seem to be a pattern here.... The Army command structure is full of liars.... They lied on Abu Ninal's fitness reports, they lied about Abu Ghra'aib, they lied about Jessica Lynch, and they lied about Pat Tillman....

It appears that lying is what they do....

however:

907. ART. 107. FALSE STATEMENTS

Any person subject to this chapter who, with intent to deceive, signs any false record, return, regulation, order, or other official document, knowing it to be false, or makes any other false official statement knowing it to be false, shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

Uniform Code of Military Justice

ART. 132. FRAUDS AGAINST THE UNITED STATES
Any person subject to this chapter--

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular](1) who, knowing it to be false or fraudulent-- [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular](A) makes any claim against the United States or any officer thereof; or [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular](B) presents to any person in the civil or military service thereof, for approval or payment, any claim against the United States or any officer thereof; [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular](2) who, for the purpose of obtaining the approval, allowance, or payment of any claim against the United States or any officer thereof [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular](A) makes or uses any writing or other paper knowing it to contain false or fraudulent statements; [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular](B) makes any oath to any fact or to any writing or other paper knowing the oath to be false; or [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular](C) forges or counterfeits any signature upon any writing or other paper, or uses any such signature knowing it to be forged or counterfeited; [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular](3) who, having charge, possession, custody, or control of any money, or other property or the United States, furnished or intended for the armed forces thereof, knowingly delivers to any person having authority to receive it, any amount thereof less than that for which he receives a certificate or receipt; or [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular](4) who, being authorized to make or deliver any paper certifying the receipt of any property of the United States furnished or intended for the armed forces thereof, makes or delivers to any person such writing without having full knowledge of the truth of the statements therein contained and with intent to defraud the United States; [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]shall, upon conviction, be punished as a court-martial may direct. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]933. ART. 133. CONDUCT UNBECOMING AN OFFICER AND A GENTLEMAN [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Any commissioned officer, cadet, or midshipman who is convicted of conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman shall be punished as a court-martial may direct. [/FONT]


UCMJ

Between the three areas there ought to be enough to send a message to those supposedly directly supervising others....

 

[California Girl]

Never, ever take seriously a post by someone who needs to use colors and bold to make sure their 'point' gets across.

 

[California Girl]

If you all will remember, back when this incident occurred there was a good deal said about fear in the brass of "political correctness" possibly leading to claims of religious and/or ethnic discrimination as part of the problem with not taking serious steps toward dealing with this guy's escalating erratic behavior. It seems like nothing is being said about "political correctness" playing a part in the inaction of superior officers in promotions, transfers, etc.

That doesn't relieve the brass. They should have said, "Screw political correctness; lives are at stake; we have a problem psychiatrist on our hands; we need to act now." Things being what they are the general public may never know all the results of the Pentagon reports or what the Commission overseeing the investigation was told.

It's very easy to sit in judgement of those who were in the position to make the calls than it is to be the person making the call. What allowed this tragedy? Political correctness. But as always, the idiots are happy to blame the military.

 

[Toome]

Agree with most in here that say this is nothing but Monday Morning Quarterbacking and a matter of rounding up the usual suspects to make scapegoats out of them. It will be interesting to see how much of this actually sticks. The UCMJ is open to interpretation IF a case can be made on dereliction of duty by the supervisors. We'll see what happens.

Otherwise, to the genius who thinks this is typical of the entire United States Army: this is the Medical Service Corps we're talking about here. If this was an Infantry officer who got through the system, then, maybe, perhaps you'd have a point. However, the reality is that the medical service corps, JAG, chaplains and a couple of other officer specialties are rated differently than the rest of the Army. That's an economic reality of life, and I think it pretty much applies across the board in all military services even if some folks wish to ignore certain realities. Not defending it; just selling it like it was sold to me.

The reality is that if anyone had taken any serious action against Hasan, my bet is that he would have become the poster boy on how prejudiced the Army is towards its Muslim soldiers.

 

[Granny]

I think Charred Sierra (or whatever) misunderstands the military. My general impression has always been (right or wrong) that there's the military - Army, Navy, Air Force and then there's the Marines!

God love them all - no matter what branch of service they are in they all have a job to do and for the very most part they do it very well. They all deserve our respect and thanks regardless of branch, rank or MOS.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The brass is doing the right thing with the investigation, and any who does not think they should investigate is playing politics with our warriors' lives.

Let's wait and see before we condemn anybody other than Major Hassan right now, gang, but let's not be foolish enough to say that we should ignore evidence (if it exists) that the killer manifested mental illness or terroristic sympathy to which the chain of command alerted then did not report.

Let's not politicize this.

 

[Big Black Dog]

Somebody had to be blamed and political correctness wouldn't lay the blame where it belonged, i.e., another muslim terrorist. Wonder how long it will be before people see the muslim terrorist for what they are? They are melting into just about every nook and cranny of American life with the sole purpose of destroying us from within. We don't do anything because it just isn't politically correct to question someone about their religion unless, of course, it's a Christian being questioned. Nobody wants to address the muslim movement within this country. Fine. In 10 years or so, when you are looking back and wondering just what happened to America, ask yourself, "Was I one of those dumb assed politically correct liberal lefties?"

 

[JakeStarkey]

BBD, that is a hasty generalization.

We have Sunnis in our southern town who (1) hate Israel, (2) make all league in football, and (3) go to Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana State University, et al, to become capitalists, home owners, and taxpayers.

Yep, they all are infiltrating our southern heritage as stealth football players in order to undermine the great game.

That makes as much sense as what you wrote.

 

[Toome]

The brass is doing the right thing with the investigation, and any who does not think they should investigate is playing politics with our warriors' lives.

Let's wait and see before we condemn anybody other than Major Hassan right now, gang, but let's not be foolish enough to say that we should ignore evidence (if it exists) that the killer manifested mental illness or terroristic sympathy to which the chain of command alerted then did not report.

Let's not politicize this.

I agree. And it works both ways. The standard should be based on what was known at the time and whether or not it was reasonable to expect someone to connect the dots. I'm afraid what's happening is that some folks are rushing to judgment because of what we ALREADY know, after the fact. Otherwise, we open a Pandora's Box to unreasonable treatment of our troops. They are already subject to certain restrictions that would not apply in the civilian world; things that people who have never donned the uniform would understand. Example: if you live on-post, some CSM with a hair up his ass can direct you to cut your lawn if the grass appears to be too high. That CSM has the UCMJ authority to issue those orders and the backing to make them stick. While I admit this is an extreme example, my point is that an effort to use performance evaluations as a basis for catching would-be terrorists is more than likely to penalize officers and NCOs for promotion if they dare to speak out on ANY issue. That's the blowback.

I think that Hasan perhaps, maybe, possibly could have been drummed out of the medical service corps based on his OERs. That doesn't mean he would not have committed his crime. He could have easily strolled into a Walmart to commit his deed.

As for the rest of it: I don't believe there were enough dots to connect for the FBI to arrest Hasan as a potential terrorist. Perhaps they might have interviewed him to inquire about his affiliation with certain religious groups, but that's it.

If I decide to visit a jihadi web-site because I just happen to be curious about what all the fuss is about, I should not have to worry about a couple of FBI special agents knocking at my front door. Some in here will say that's what I get for visiting a jihadi web-site. And when we start thinking like that, we are no longer thinking like Americans.

It's a very contentious issue filled with all sorts of trapdoors. If the Pentagon ends up killing the careers of any of Hasan's superior officers, it will open a can of worms that will do more harm than good.