Solid Physical Evidence of AGW.... Where is it?

it is not possible for a body to warm itself with its own radiation..

It's not warming "with its own radiation", it's warming because the solar radiation escapes more slowly.

Does solar radiation emit from the surface of the earth? I was under the impression that solar radiation was mostly in the UV and visible wavelengths and earth emits IR....is that not true? Energy emitting from the surface of the earth is earth's radiation...

A body can not warm itself with its own radiation...not even a perfect black body...which earth isn't...

Does solar radiation emit from the surface of the earth?

Why, no. It's first absorbed and then re-emitted as LWIR.
LWIR which escapes more slowly than the speed of light, because GHGs.

A body can not warm itself with its own radiation..

That's a nice strawman you got there......
LWIR which escapes more slowly than the speed of light, because GHGs.
then prove it. still waiting on that observed measurement.

then prove it.

You need proof that IR, absorbed by a GHG, leaves the Earth more slowly than IR
which immediately escapes the Earth at the speed of light?

Have you always been a moron?
You need proof that IR, absorbed by a GHG, leaves the Earth more slowly than IR
so the answer is no. got it.
Have you always been a moron?
not near as moronic as you!!!
 
The greenhouse effect warms the planet by slowing the release of IR, not trapping it forever. As you have noted, as the Earth's temperature has gone up, its OLR has increased. You seem to have missed the critical sup-phrase: "...as the Earth's temperature has gone up"

Actually it doesn't slow the release of IR because if it did, the predicted hot spot would be the inevitable result...there is no hot spot...and slowed cooling does not equal warming...it is not possible for a body to warm itself with its own radiation..if you believe it can, then show me the physical law that says as much.

Actually it doesn't slow the release of IR because if it did,

Every photon of IR that is absorbed by a GHG molecule, instead of instantly escaping into space, is slowed.

and slowed cooling does not equal warming

DERP!

it is not possible for a body to warm itself with its own radiation..

https://ladygeekgirl.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/startrekspockfascinating1.jpg

The greenhouse effect warms the planet by slowing the release of IR, not trapping it forever. As you have noted, as the Earth's temperature has gone up, its OLR has increased. You seem to have missed the critical sup-phrase: "...as the Earth's temperature has gone up"

Actually it doesn't slow the release of IR because if it did, the predicted hot spot would be the inevitable result...there is no hot spot...and slowed cooling does not equal warming...it is not possible for a body to warm itself with its own radiation..if you believe it can, then show me the physical law that says as much.

Actually it doesn't slow the release of IR because if it did,

Every photon of IR that is absorbed by a GHG molecule, instead of instantly escaping into space, is slowed.

and slowed cooling does not equal warming

DERP!

it is not possible for a body to warm itself with its own radiation..

. It's not warming "with its own radiation", it's warming because the solar radiation escapes more slowly. .

Come on Todd, anything that emits from CO2 is a neutral or COOLING process, then you say this confusion:

"it's warming because the solar radiation escapes more slowly. "

Not it means cooling down more slowly, there is no actual increase in warming at all since molecules don't generate any heat by itself. With an increase in CO2 molecules in the atmosphere is an increase in emission rate back to outer space.

I posted HERE that any increase in the postulated warm forcing of CO2 is more than countered by the system energy OUTFLOW from the planet. CO2 increase in the air isn't stopping the increased outflow of energy as clearly shown by Satellites.

Not it means cooling down more slowly,

Well, cooling more slowly, assuming no change in input, means warming.

With an increase in CO2 molecules in the atmosphere is an increase in emission rate back to outer space.

It has to absorb before it can emit.

What is warming while it is cooling down slower?
 
it is not possible for a body to warm itself with its own radiation..

It's not warming "with its own radiation", it's warming because the solar radiation escapes more slowly.

Does solar radiation emit from the surface of the earth? I was under the impression that solar radiation was mostly in the UV and visible wavelengths and earth emits IR....is that not true? Energy emitting from the surface of the earth is earth's radiation...

A body can not warm itself with its own radiation...not even a perfect black body...which earth isn't...

Does solar radiation emit from the surface of the earth?

Why, no. It's first absorbed and then re-emitted as LWIR.
LWIR which escapes more slowly than the speed of light, because GHGs.

A body can not warm itself with its own radiation..

That's a nice strawman you got there......
A body can not warm itself with its own radiation..

That's a nice strawman you got there......


And all you have to do is prove a body can. go for it. why do you delay six years since I've been on the forum?

And all you have to do is prove a body can.

Prove a body can what?
use your imagination
 
The greenhouse effect warms the planet by slowing the release of IR, not trapping it forever. As you have noted, as the Earth's temperature has gone up, its OLR has increased. You seem to have missed the critical sup-phrase: "...as the Earth's temperature has gone up"

Actually it doesn't slow the release of IR because if it did, the predicted hot spot would be the inevitable result...there is no hot spot...and slowed cooling does not equal warming...it is not possible for a body to warm itself with its own radiation..if you believe it can, then show me the physical law that says as much.

Actually it doesn't slow the release of IR because if it did,

Every photon of IR that is absorbed by a GHG molecule, instead of instantly escaping into space, is slowed.

and slowed cooling does not equal warming

DERP!

it is not possible for a body to warm itself with its own radiation..

https://ladygeekgirl.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/startrekspockfascinating1.jpg

The greenhouse effect warms the planet by slowing the release of IR, not trapping it forever. As you have noted, as the Earth's temperature has gone up, its OLR has increased. You seem to have missed the critical sup-phrase: "...as the Earth's temperature has gone up"

Actually it doesn't slow the release of IR because if it did, the predicted hot spot would be the inevitable result...there is no hot spot...and slowed cooling does not equal warming...it is not possible for a body to warm itself with its own radiation..if you believe it can, then show me the physical law that says as much.

Actually it doesn't slow the release of IR because if it did,

Every photon of IR that is absorbed by a GHG molecule, instead of instantly escaping into space, is slowed.

and slowed cooling does not equal warming

DERP!

it is not possible for a body to warm itself with its own radiation..

. It's not warming "with its own radiation", it's warming because the solar radiation escapes more slowly. .

Come on Todd, anything that emits from CO2 is a neutral or COOLING process, then you say this confusion:

"it's warming because the solar radiation escapes more slowly. "

Not it means cooling down more slowly, there is no actual increase in warming at all since molecules don't generate any heat by itself. With an increase in CO2 molecules in the atmosphere is an increase in emission rate back to outer space.

I posted HERE that any increase in the postulated warm forcing of CO2 is more than countered by the system energy OUTFLOW from the planet. CO2 increase in the air isn't stopping the increased outflow of energy as clearly shown by Satellites.

Not it means cooling down more slowly,

Well, cooling more slowly, assuming no change in input, means warming.

With an increase in CO2 molecules in the atmosphere is an increase in emission rate back to outer space.

It has to absorb before it can emit.
dude, classic moron you are. :auiqs.jpg::auiqs.jpg:

folks now cooling slower is warming. :auiqs.jpg::auiqs.jpg::auiqs.jpg:
 
Imagine an empty water tank. Water goes in to the tank at a fixed rate. Water drains out at the bottom through a valve that can control the flow. The greater the depth of water in the tank, the greater the pressure and the faster water will flow out the drain. We let water flow in at its fixed rate and flow out through the valve at the bottom initially at a lesser rate.

Since water is coming in faster than it is leaving, the water level in the tank rises. But, as it rises, the rate of flow out the drain increases until at some specific depth, the pressure at the drain becomes great enough that the flow out equals the flow in and the level in the tank stabilizes.

Now we close the drain valve slightly. The rate of water leaving is once again less than the rate coming in. The water level in the tank begins to rise. As it rises, the flow out the drain increases until, once again, the flow out equals the flow in and the level of water in the tank stabilizes, now at a greater depth.

This is analogous to what happens in the Earth's atmosphere. Radiant energy from the sun enters the atmosphere. The Earth, like all matter, radiates infrared energy proportional to its temperature and this energy leaves the planet into space. In an equilibrium state, the power entering the atmosphere would equal the amount leaving. If we slow the rate at which energy leaves the planet, we will raise the equilibrium point; the planet will warm.
Imagine an empty water tank. Water goes in to the tank at a fixed rate. Water drains out at the bottom through a valve that can control the flow. The greater the depth of water in the tank, the greater the pressure and the faster water will flow out the drain. We let water flow in at its fixed rate and flow out through the valve at the bottom initially at a lesser rate.

Water towers now?
 
The greenhouse effect warms the planet by slowing the release of IR, not trapping it forever. As you have noted, as the Earth's temperature has gone up, its OLR has increased. You seem to have missed the critical sup-phrase: "...as the Earth's temperature has gone up"

Actually it doesn't slow the release of IR because if it did, the predicted hot spot would be the inevitable result...there is no hot spot...and slowed cooling does not equal warming...it is not possible for a body to warm itself with its own radiation..if you believe it can, then show me the physical law that says as much.

Actually it doesn't slow the release of IR because if it did,

Every photon of IR that is absorbed by a GHG molecule, instead of instantly escaping into space, is slowed.

and slowed cooling does not equal warming

DERP!

it is not possible for a body to warm itself with its own radiation..

https://ladygeekgirl.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/startrekspockfascinating1.jpg

The greenhouse effect warms the planet by slowing the release of IR, not trapping it forever. As you have noted, as the Earth's temperature has gone up, its OLR has increased. You seem to have missed the critical sup-phrase: "...as the Earth's temperature has gone up"

Actually it doesn't slow the release of IR because if it did, the predicted hot spot would be the inevitable result...there is no hot spot...and slowed cooling does not equal warming...it is not possible for a body to warm itself with its own radiation..if you believe it can, then show me the physical law that says as much.

Actually it doesn't slow the release of IR because if it did,

Every photon of IR that is absorbed by a GHG molecule, instead of instantly escaping into space, is slowed.

and slowed cooling does not equal warming

DERP!

it is not possible for a body to warm itself with its own radiation..

. It's not warming "with its own radiation", it's warming because the solar radiation escapes more slowly. .

Come on Todd, anything that emits from CO2 is a neutral or COOLING process, then you say this confusion:

"it's warming because the solar radiation escapes more slowly. "

Not it means cooling down more slowly, there is no actual increase in warming at all since molecules don't generate any heat by itself. With an increase in CO2 molecules in the atmosphere is an increase in emission rate back to outer space.

I posted HERE that any increase in the postulated warm forcing of CO2 is more than countered by the system energy OUTFLOW from the planet. CO2 increase in the air isn't stopping the increased outflow of energy as clearly shown by Satellites.

Not it means cooling down more slowly,

Well, cooling more slowly, assuming no change in input, means warming.

With an increase in CO2 molecules in the atmosphere is an increase in emission rate back to outer space.

It has to absorb before it can emit.
It has to absorb before it can emit

cool!!!
 
7
Imagine an empty water tank. Water goes in to the tank at a fixed rate. Water drains out at the bottom through a valve that can control the flow. The greater the depth of water in the tank, the greater the pressure and the faster water will flow out the drain. We let water flow in at its fixed rate and flow out through the valve at the bottom initially at a lesser rate.

Since water is coming in faster than it is leaving, the water level in the tank rises. But, as it rises, the rate of flow out the drain increases until at some specific depth, the pressure at the drain becomes great enough that the flow out equals the flow in and the level in the tank stabilizes.

Now we close the drain valve slightly. The rate of water leaving is once again less than the rate coming in. The water level in the tank begins to rise. As it rises, the flow out the drain increases until, once again, the flow out equals the flow in and the level of water in the tank stabilizes, now at a greater depth.

This is analogous to what happens in the Earth's atmosphere. Radiant energy from the sun enters the atmosphere. The Earth, like all matter, radiates infrared energy proportional to its temperature and this energy leaves the planet into space. In an equilibrium state, the power entering the atmosphere would equal the amount leaving. If we slow the rate at which energy leaves the planet, we will raise the equilibrium point; the planet will warm.
This is analogous to what happens in the Earth's atmosphere. Radiant energy from the sun enters the atmosphere. The Earth, like all matter, radiates infrared energy proportional to its temperature and this energy leaves the planet into space. In an equilibrium state, the power entering the atmosphere would equal the amount leaving. If we slow the rate at which energy leaves the planet, we will raise the equilibrium point; the planet will warm.

what's warming? input is input. sun isn't hotter, the incoming IR isn't hotter, there isn't more sunlight. You're not getting in more IR. therefore, one can't be warmer than what one gets in. explain what is getting warmer? Are you suggesting that their is a build up of IR on the surface somewhere? Oh, that's that unobserved stuff you still can't explain.
 
There are two main scenarios to think about with the CO2 greenhouse effect.

The first is CO2 present, or CO2 not present.

The second scenario is what changes with an increase or decrease of CO2 concentration.

I think it is obvious that the presence of CO2 has a dramatic impact on the escape of infrared energy in the 15 micron band. All surface 15 micron radiation is absorbed to extinction. Undeniable.

The much trickier question is what happens, and where, as the CO2 concentration goes from 250 to 500 parts per million.

The CO2 induced hotspot is at roughly 2 metres at STP. Surface temperature is actually atmospheric temperature measured at 1.5 metres.

The emission height for CO2 radiation is quite high in the atmosphere where it is cold, therefore there is little available energy to convert into 15 micron radiation . The amount energy escaping to space is proportional to the temperature from where it is leaving from! The temperature profile of the atmosphere is not linear although the emissions height is still in an area that does show a stable lapse rate.
 
Imagine an empty water tank. Water goes in to the tank at a fixed rate. Water drains out at the bottom through a valve that can control the flow. The greater the depth of water in the tank, the greater the pressure and the faster water will flow out the drain. We let water flow in at its fixed rate and flow out through the valve at the bottom initially at a lesser rate.

Since water is coming in faster than it is leaving, the water level in the tank rises. But, as it rises, the rate of flow out the drain increases until at some specific depth, the pressure at the drain becomes great enough that the flow out equals the flow in and the level in the tank stabilizes.

Now we close the drain valve slightly. The rate of water leaving is once again less than the rate coming in. The water level in the tank begins to rise. As it rises, the flow out the drain increases until, once again, the flow out equals the flow in and the level of water in the tank stabilizes, now at a greater depth.

This is analogous to what happens in the Earth's atmosphere. Radiant energy from the sun enters the atmosphere. The Earth, like all matter, radiates infrared energy proportional to its temperature and this energy leaves the planet into space. In an equilibrium state, the power entering the atmosphere would equal the amount leaving. If we slow the rate at which energy leaves the planet, we will raise the equilibrium point; the planet will warm.


The problem with your mind experiment is that the valve at the top of the atmosphere hasn't closed any at all...more IR is escaping at the top of the atmosphere...if it weren't, then the hot spot claimed by the greenhouse hypothesis would be in evidence...there is no warming due to CO2...
 
Imagine an empty water tank. Water goes in to the tank at a fixed rate. Water drains out at the bottom through a valve that can control the flow. The greater the depth of water in the tank, the greater the pressure and the faster water will flow out the drain. We let water flow in at its fixed rate and flow out through the valve at the bottom initially at a lesser rate.

Since water is coming in faster than it is leaving, the water level in the tank rises. But, as it rises, the rate of flow out the drain increases until at some specific depth, the pressure at the drain becomes great enough that the flow out equals the flow in and the level in the tank stabilizes.

Now we close the drain valve slightly. The rate of water leaving is once again less than the rate coming in. The water level in the tank begins to rise. As it rises, the flow out the drain increases until, once again, the flow out equals the flow in and the level of water in the tank stabilizes, now at a greater depth.

This is analogous to what happens in the Earth's atmosphere. Radiant energy from the sun enters the atmosphere. The Earth, like all matter, radiates infrared energy proportional to its temperature and this energy leaves the planet into space. In an equilibrium state, the power entering the atmosphere would equal the amount leaving. If we slow the rate at which energy leaves the planet, we will raise the equilibrium point; the planet will warm.

Good example.

No....it's a shitty example, but it is good enough to fool him..and apparently good enough to fool you. In the case of the atmosphere, the valve at the top isn't closing...More IR, not less is escaping at the top of the atmosphere...if there were less escaping, then the hot spot that the greenhouse hypothesis predicted would be in evidence...it isn't there because CO2 isn't causing any warming...


erbsceres-vs-uah1.png
 
Imagine an empty water tank. Water goes in to the tank at a fixed rate. Water drains out at the bottom through a valve that can control the flow. The greater the depth of water in the tank, the greater the pressure and the faster water will flow out the drain. We let water flow in at its fixed rate and flow out through the valve at the bottom initially at a lesser rate.

Since water is coming in faster than it is leaving, the water level in the tank rises. But, as it rises, the rate of flow out the drain increases until at some specific depth, the pressure at the drain becomes great enough that the flow out equals the flow in and the level in the tank stabilizes.

Now we close the drain valve slightly. The rate of water leaving is once again less than the rate coming in. The water level in the tank begins to rise. As it rises, the flow out the drain increases until, once again, the flow out equals the flow in and the level of water in the tank stabilizes, now at a greater depth.

This is analogous to what happens in the Earth's atmosphere. Radiant energy from the sun enters the atmosphere. The Earth, like all matter, radiates infrared energy proportional to its temperature and this energy leaves the planet into space. In an equilibrium state, the power entering the atmosphere would equal the amount leaving. If we slow the rate at which energy leaves the planet, we will raise the equilibrium point; the planet will warm.
Imagine an empty water tank. Water goes in to the tank at a fixed rate. Water drains out at the bottom through a valve that can control the flow. The greater the depth of water in the tank, the greater the pressure and the faster water will flow out the drain. We let water flow in at its fixed rate and flow out through the valve at the bottom initially at a lesser rate.

Water towers now?

In cricks example, he says that if you want to increase the water level in the tank, you have to close the valve so that the water level will increase...the problem with his mind model is that the "valve" at the top of the atmosphere isn't closing...more IR is escaping from the top of the atmosphere..not less as his model suggests... If less IR were escaping at the top of the atmosphere, then the hot spot that the greenhouse hypothesis predicts would be there for everyone to see....it isn't.

erbsceres-vs-uah1.png
 
7
Imagine an empty water tank. Water goes in to the tank at a fixed rate. Water drains out at the bottom through a valve that can control the flow. The greater the depth of water in the tank, the greater the pressure and the faster water will flow out the drain. We let water flow in at its fixed rate and flow out through the valve at the bottom initially at a lesser rate.

Since water is coming in faster than it is leaving, the water level in the tank rises. But, as it rises, the rate of flow out the drain increases until at some specific depth, the pressure at the drain becomes great enough that the flow out equals the flow in and the level in the tank stabilizes.

Now we close the drain valve slightly. The rate of water leaving is once again less than the rate coming in. The water level in the tank begins to rise. As it rises, the flow out the drain increases until, once again, the flow out equals the flow in and the level of water in the tank stabilizes, now at a greater depth.

This is analogous to what happens in the Earth's atmosphere. Radiant energy from the sun enters the atmosphere. The Earth, like all matter, radiates infrared energy proportional to its temperature and this energy leaves the planet into space. In an equilibrium state, the power entering the atmosphere would equal the amount leaving. If we slow the rate at which energy leaves the planet, we will raise the equilibrium point; the planet will warm.
This is analogous to what happens in the Earth's atmosphere. Radiant energy from the sun enters the atmosphere. The Earth, like all matter, radiates infrared energy proportional to its temperature and this energy leaves the planet into space. In an equilibrium state, the power entering the atmosphere would equal the amount leaving. If we slow the rate at which energy leaves the planet, we will raise the equilibrium point; the planet will warm.

what's warming? input is input. sun isn't hotter, the incoming IR isn't hotter, there isn't more sunlight. You're not getting in more IR. therefore, one can't be warmer than what one gets in. explain what is getting warmer? Are you suggesting that their is a build up of IR on the surface somewhere? Oh, that's that unobserved stuff you still can't explain.

It all comes down to the claim that the earth can warm itself with its own radiation...I would like to see the physical law that states such nonsense is possible.
 
Wrong. LWIR is increasing because the temperature of the planet is increasing. Flow out the drain line would increase as the depth of water in the tank increased.

Your sideshow with warming with your own radiation is more nonsense. Let's see the law that says you cannot. BTW, the Earth's radiation is that leaving the atmosphere for space. The surface's radiation warms the atmosphere as it does by conduction and convection. The atmosphere warms the surface in return, by radiation, conduction and convection. So your latest complaint besides being nonsensical bullshit, doesn't even fit the scenario.
 
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There are two main scenarios to think about with the CO2 greenhouse effect.

The first is CO2 present, or CO2 not present.

The second scenario is what changes with an increase or decrease of CO2 concentration.

I think it is obvious that the presence of CO2 has a dramatic impact on the escape of infrared energy in the 15 micron band. All surface 15 micron radiation is absorbed to extinction. Undeniable.

The much trickier question is what happens, and where, as the CO2 concentration goes from 250 to 500 parts per million.

The CO2 induced hotspot is at roughly 2 metres at STP. Surface temperature is actually atmospheric temperature measured at 1.5 metres.

The emission height for CO2 radiation is quite high in the atmosphere where it is cold, therefore there is little available energy to convert into 15 micron radiation . The amount energy escaping to space is proportional to the temperature from where it is leaving from! The temperature profile of the atmosphere is not linear although the emissions height is still in an area that does show a stable lapse rate.

There is a third more likely scenario...there is no radiative greenhouse effect as described by climate science...a body can't warm itself with its own radiation.
 
Wrong. LWIR is increasing because the temperature of the planet is increasing. Flow out the drain line would increase as the depth of water in the tank increased.

So where is the inevitable hot spot that would be the result of energy being slowed in the atmosphere? And which physical law says that a body can warm itself with its own radiation?
 
Imagine an empty water tank. Water goes in to the tank at a fixed rate. Water drains out at the bottom through a valve that can control the flow. The greater the depth of water in the tank, the greater the pressure and the faster water will flow out the drain. We let water flow in at its fixed rate and flow out through the valve at the bottom initially at a lesser rate.

Since water is coming in faster than it is leaving, the water level in the tank rises. But, as it rises, the rate of flow out the drain increases until at some specific depth, the pressure at the drain becomes great enough that the flow out equals the flow in and the level in the tank stabilizes.

Now we close the drain valve slightly. The rate of water leaving is once again less than the rate coming in. The water level in the tank begins to rise. As it rises, the flow out the drain increases until, once again, the flow out equals the flow in and the level of water in the tank stabilizes, now at a greater depth.

This is analogous to what happens in the Earth's atmosphere. Radiant energy from the sun enters the atmosphere. The Earth, like all matter, radiates infrared energy proportional to its temperature and this energy leaves the planet into space. In an equilibrium state, the power entering the atmosphere would equal the amount leaving. If we slow the rate at which energy leaves the planet, we will raise the equilibrium point; the planet will warm.

Good example.

No....it's a shitty example, but it is good enough to fool him..and apparently good enough to fool you. In the case of the atmosphere, the valve at the top isn't closing...More IR, not less is escaping at the top of the atmosphere...if there were less escaping, then the hot spot that the greenhouse hypothesis predicted would be in evidence...it isn't there because CO2 isn't causing any warming...


erbsceres-vs-uah1.png

Link for the chart?
 
It is now time for the alarmists to provide SOLID, PHYSICAL, EMPIRICALLY observed and verified evidence.... Where is it?

How about solid, physical, verifiable evidence that you have a high school diploma?
You apparently didn't make it past the 6th grade... SO you keep touting your AGW but you provide no empirical evidence of it.. Yet natural variation dwarfs what you think is man caused... Funnier still is how you managed to stop natural variation and ensure that everything that is happening is man caused...
 
Leave off you idiotic crap about warming - unless you can produce a law that says you cannot. And you'd best tell all those folks using mylar 'space' blankets to keep people warm in disasters.

As for a tropospheric hot spot:

Tropospheric Hot Spot Predicted In Global Warming Models Detected

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2012JD018658

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2005JD006594
holy choke on my puke batman.

"The discovery was made by extending an existing data record and removing artifacts caused by station moves and instrument changes. This revealed real changes in temperature as opposed to the artificial changes generated by alterations to the way the data was collected. No climate models were used in the process that revealed the tropospheric hotspot. The researchers instead used observations and combined two well-known techniques -- linear regression and Iterative Universal Kriging." that's called manipulation. At its finest.
 

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