Solar panels, tariffs, and politics

task0778

Diamond Member
Mar 10, 2017
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Texas hill country
As you may have noticed in your neighborhood, rooftop solar panels are gaining popularity. People and businesses like them because they save money and help the environment at the same time.

Installing those panels is a growing business. Making them isn’t, at least for American companies. They have been unable to compete with low-cost panels imported from China.

In September, the US International Trade Commission ruled that US solar panel manufacturers had been seriously injured by foreign competition. The decision came in response to a complaint filed by bankrupt Georgia-based company Suniva.

In an October 31 follow-up ruling, the ITC recommended President Trump impose up to 35% tariffs on imported solar panels. The president will make a final decision.

We don’t know what Trump will do, but the more interesting part is why Chinese solar panels have this cost advantage.

It turns out, the US government actually paid the Chinese huge subsidies to make the same solar panels it now says are unfair competition.

Say what?

Back in January 2009, when President Obama came into office, he pledged to revive the recession-afflicted economy with a fiscal stimulus plan.

Congress obliged by passing the $787 billion American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, which, among other things, gave a generous tax credit to clean-energy companies.

These were supposed to be American companies using American-made components. While that’s mostly what happened, a few companies found a loophole. International Business Times reported on it last week.

To earn the tax credits, projects had to be based in the U.S., and a “Buy America” clause was included to boost domestic manufacturing. But the clause had a loophole: It would be waived if “the relevant manufactured goods are not produced in the United States in sufficient and reasonably available quantities.” Because of the relatively small solar manufacturing capacity in the U.S., domestic solar installation companies receiving stimulus money would be allowed to purchase panels from overseas, undercutting U.S. manufacturers.

But that’s not all — while roughly 70 percent of the grant recipients were American companies, there were at least 17 foreign-based companies receiving 48C tax credits that had already arranged for solar or wind manufacturing operations in low-wage nations, according to a 2010 report from a project of the BlueGreen Alliance Foundation, an environmental nonprofit. Six U.S. companies that were awarded tax credits, including First Solar and Sun Power, already had manufacturing operations in low-wage, East Asian countries such as China, Malaysia and the Philippines.

So instead of boosting US solar manufacturing, the government essentially paid companies to import them from abroad.

That wasn’t entirely crazy: lower prices led more homeowners and businesses to buy solar panels. That meant more jobs installing them, but it also gave foreign manufacturers an edge over US companies.

What customers didn’t know was that their imported panels might actually create more of the same greenhouse gases they wanted to reduce.

Say what?

Some of the Asian countries making solar panels for US customers are not particularly “green.” They burn a lot of coal to make the electricity that powers the solar-panel factories.

Solar panels are bulky and heavy, and those made in Asia come to the US on diesel-burning cargo ships. Portions of these panels even cross the Pacific twice.

Asian manufacturers import polysilicon, an important raw material, from mines in the United States. Then the same polysilicon comes back to the US in completed panels.

Experts interviewed by IBT estimate it takes about nine years for an imported solar panel installed on a US roof to recover the greenhouse gas emissions involved in manufacturing and transporting it.

That’s a problem when one of your key selling points is that your product helps protect the environment.
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Tariffs or not, solar-panel manufacturing will probably return to the US anyway. Trade sanctions will just speed it up by a few years. Cheap Asian labor no longer has the competitive advantage it used to have.

(not to mention the increased transportation costs.)

Factory robots don’t care where you put them. They cost about the same and work equally hard on either side of the Pacific.

As automation continues, I think we’ll see manufacturing of all kinds move closer to the customer. Speed is replacing scale as the differentiator. Today’s businesses must respond to customers faster than ships can cross the ocean.

Tariffs on Your Roof
 
I like solar power.

But it should be used wisely.

At a remote location where having power lines installed cost big bucks it's great.

On a home you intend to live in for 20 years it's incredible - provided your state/city allows "net metering" AND (not "if") you have some on site storage. Lemme 'splain:

Without on site storage (these days that still means batteries) you SELL power to the utilities by sunlight day. You BUY power from the utilities by night or on dark days. Right now various subsidies make that profitable. The subsidies are already being phased out.

With storage and where net metering is allowed you first charge your batteries THEN ykou peddle power to the utility and it's all gravy. You almost never have to buy any power from the utility provided you set up enough storage to get you through the typical night. If you've engaged in a little overkill on storage you're equipped to deal with a day or more of zero power - as after a big storm that rips down overhead wires. If you live in an area where that shit is common then what might seem like excessive storage, with a plan to reduce usage in a storm situation, you can get by for several days even if they're dank and cooudy.

But you can't take your solar panels with you. So if you think you may move in the foreseeable future it's a loser. You'll get a small premium price for the house when you sell it but you will NOT recover the costs of the solar installation.

From experience do I speak.
 
So here's the basic problem: if Trump imposes tariffs on foreign made solar panels, that helps US panel makers and one would think the greenies would like it too cuz of less environmental pollution. But - tariffs also mean higher prices in the US for consumers who want to put solar panels on their houses or the gov't has to subsidize those panels in some way. Winners and losers, I hate subsidies.

But, how do you like the fact that our gov't was subsidizing China and other countries to make the solar panels that undercut our own solar companies prices? AND we were hurting the environment in the process?
 
Solar panels do not work very well except in certain areas, so in my area solar panels are pretty much worthless.

Solar technology still requires petroleum to make them.

They are not the answer to anyone except those living in tropical zones with plenty of sun light!

Two Solar Companies Got Big Subsidies From Obama. Now They Want Protective Tariffs From Trump.

Solar energy is making a lot of progress in bringing the costs down and the efficiency up in recent years, and I'd expect that to continue. For now there are places where solar panels don't make a lot of sense, but they do in a lot of places west of the Mississippi, especially if and when advances in power storage allow the energy from the panels to be saved and used after dark. We ain't there now but I suspect we will be at some point down the road. And whatever energy we get from solar and other renewables is less energy the national power grid needs from other sources.
 
You know, Musk donated a solar array to a hospital in PR.

They think it's a great thing. Hopefully, more people around that area will see the advantage of solar and start installing it instead of the outdated power supply they had.

Solar makes good sense for islands, because then they don't have to ship oil and coal in to make power.
 
So here's the basic problem: if Trump imposes tariffs on foreign made solar panels, that helps US panel makers and one would think the greenies would like it too cuz of less environmental pollution. But - tariffs also mean higher prices in the US for consumers who want to put solar panels on their houses or the gov't has to subsidize those panels in some way. Winners and losers, I hate subsidies.

But, how do you like the fact that our gov't was subsidizing China and other countries to make the solar panels that undercut our own solar companies prices? AND we were hurting the environment in the process?
The Obama administration imposed tariffs on Chinese solar panels back in 2012. The Chinese responded with tariffs on US polysilicon which is used in the manufacturing of solar cells. And so it goes.
 

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