So you wanna claim to be a Libertarian do ya?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by PredFan, Mar 10, 2012.

  1. PredFan
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    PredFan Gold Member

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    I have been a Libertarian for at least 25 years. Longer, if you count the time I was a Libertarian without knowing there was such a thing.

    In the past 10 years I have seen tremendous growth in the party's ranks. especially among the young. At first, this was very encouraging. However, the more I talked to these people and the more I observed their actions, the more disappointed I've become. 90% of these new, young, libertarians are only here because they think that Ron paul is going to let them do drugs legally. the extent of their knowledge of the economy, and fiscal issues is that the stopping the war on drugs will reduce government spending.

    Many of the new Libertarians, also are aware that the LP promotes non-interventionalism, they like this idea too. "Don't die in a war, and you live to smoke more pot" sounds pretty good to them. They also love to point out how much money will be saved when we aren't fighting "over there".

    Too many times I see these people doing and saying the stupidest things in the name of the Libertarian Party. Throwing things at Sean hannity during the 2008 GOP convention is a prime example. It has been said many times and it's true, that sometimes Ron Paul's worst enemy is his supporters.

    The worst, in my opinion is their preference for the democrats over the GOP if they have to make the choice. I heard just last week, a person on a local libertarian talk show state that he's rather have Obama than rick Santorum. That's an exmaple of a person who is only a libertarian because of one or two issues, and listening to him, I'll bet he just wants to smoke pot unmolested. There is no way that a knowledgeable and rational libertarian would say such a thing. I have heard this same sentiment a few times before, and it's rediculous. Barack hussein Obama is the polar opposite of everything that the Libertarian Party stands for. no rational thinking libertarian can say that Rick Santorum is in the same category.

    It's great that our political clout is slowly increasing and although Ron Paul will never be POTUS, I hope I live to see a Libertarian in the White House. but you people need to really look at the Libertarian Party's platform and payattention to the WHOLE thing.

    And btw, Ron Paul, if he were to somehow get elected, would not be able to make drugs legal, not in any way shape or form. The POTUS is not Ceasar and he cannot just do whatever he wants to.
     
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  2. dblack
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    dblack Gold Member

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    Got ya beat by a few years, but no point in splitting hairs....

    I disagree. They're both pretty bad, but I'd consider Obama, if only slightly, less dangerous than Santorum.

    Not exactly sure what you're intent is for this thread, but I think I might be one of the people you're addressing, despite the fact that I'm not a recent adopter of the libertarian ideology. In fact, I do see greater hope for the libertarian cause among self-described liberals than with conservatives. Setting aside the actual policies of the Democrats and the Republicans, the most important difference between liberals and conservatives is in their attitude toward authoritarianism.

    While people of both leanings will support authoritarian policies, liberals will at least find some discomfort in the idea. Their problem is one of misunderstanding, in not realizing how their good intent is being used against them by unscrupulous leaders. Conservatives, on the other hand, will cheer for overbearing government when it suits their needs, or placates their fears. The reaction to 9/11 should have proven this to us if nothing else.

    In my view, conservatives are willing to play along with libertarian proposals when they add up to lower taxes or oppose social reform they don't like. But when it comes to real freedom, they don't really like it much. With liberals, the challenge is showing them that economic freedom is fundamental. Once they get that, they essentially ARE libertarians for the most part.
     
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  3. PredFan
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    PredFan Gold Member

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    I don't see how you could rationalize that statement. Unless you are a one-issue type Libertarian. you are irrationally afraid of Santorum's Theocratic Political beliefs. What exatly are you afraid of? Do you think that there is any even remote chance that a president alone can reverse Roe vs Wade? Do you think that he can again, all by himself, make contraceptives illegal? Obama otoh, already is taking away fiscal andpersonal liberties. we don't have to imagine a highly unlikely scenario for that. It's happening already. Obama is worse my multiple multiples.

    And liberals, especially progressives, are the MOST authoritarian.

    No they don't. They believe in government. They want the government controlling commerce, industry, finances, healthcare, and they want them providing entitlements of al kinds. They care very little that the same government that provides also restricts.

    This is true. As it is true of liberals. You do realize that the reaction to 9-11 was bi-partisan right?

    Even if I granted you that, and I don't, obama is not that kind of libveral. He isn't innocently mislead by the "powers that be". He knows full well what he is doing, and what he is doing is authoritarain in the extreme. For ANY libertarian to say thay they would support obama over Santorum or any GOP candidate is absurd in the extreme. Obama stands solidly behind everything that the Libertarian Party is against.
     
  4. PredFan
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    PredFan Gold Member

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    Obama has not stopped nation-building.
    Obama did not close Gittmo.
    Obama did not reduce our military presence.
    Obama did not reverse the Patriot Act.
    Obama did not stop the subsidizing of businesses and industries.
    Obama has increased the size of government.
    Obama does end-arounds of the Constitution.
     
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  5. uscitizen
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    uscitizen Senior Member

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    Many started claiming to be libertarians around the second Bush term.
    Just embaressed republicans mostly.
     
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  6. bripat9643
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    bripat9643 Diamond Member

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    You're exactly the kind of person he's talking about. Liberals are bootlicking servile toadies. The idea that they make better libertarians than conservatives is absurd. I've read your stuff, and you don't come off as any libertarian. You come off as a liberal. You're fan of big government. You support Obamacare. No one who supports Obama care has any justification to call himself a libertarian.

    ROFL. No they aren't. Liberals don't believe in economic or social freedom. Any claim that they do is utterly pretentious.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2012
  7. PredFan
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    PredFan Gold Member

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    Partisan hackery at it's finest, but not entirely untrue.

    During the first and second Bush term was when Ron Paul recognized what Bush was doing, and doing in the name of conservatism. It was that time that he pushed to get his message out, and his message began to resonate with people. Yes, some in the GOP, those who were unhappy with Bush's un-conservative actions, went to Dr.Paul.

    No Libertarian was happy with Bush, but compared to obama, Bush is a saint.
     
  8. AVG-JOE
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    AVG-JOE American Mutt Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

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    The reason I can't cast my libertarian vote for Romney or Santorum is that either one of them will put the interests of their respective religions ahead of the interests of the American people if push ever came to shove.

    As far as why libertarians gravitate toward democrats over republicans in general... Social Conservatism and fiscal irresponsibility is one hell of a lot scarier than social democracy and fiscal irresponsibility.

    :dunno: With both parties irresponsibly tied to their master-lobbyists with regard to government spending, the only comparison left for a young libertarian to make is on social issues, and republicans are desirous of far too much government control in our homes and bedrooms for a libertarian to stomach.
     
  9. PredFan
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    PredFan Gold Member

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    Hmm...I am not as familiar with his posts. It does seem suspicious that some one who claims to have been a Libertarian for that long could not possibly believe the crap he was spouting.
     
  10. nitroz
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    nitroz INDEPENDENTly ruthless

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    Well, I understand the gitmo situation.
    The goal of it is to not bring them to the US because if we did, they would be entitled to rights. So he tried to see if he could get any allied nations to take the prisoners, and they declined. So, gitmo is here to stay since they don't want to give the prisoners rights in any way.

    He reduced military presence in Iraq while we shifted more focus to Afghanistan in hopes of pulling out soon.
     

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