So you wanna claim to be a Libertarian do ya?

[PredFan]

I have been a Libertarian for at least 25 years. Longer, if you count the time I was a Libertarian without knowing there was such a thing.

In the past 10 years I have seen tremendous growth in the party's ranks. especially among the young. At first, this was very encouraging. However, the more I talked to these people and the more I observed their actions, the more disappointed I've become. 90% of these new, young, libertarians are only here because they think that Ron paul is going to let them do drugs legally. the extent of their knowledge of the economy, and fiscal issues is that the stopping the war on drugs will reduce government spending.

Many of the new Libertarians, also are aware that the LP promotes non-interventionalism, they like this idea too. "Don't die in a war, and you live to smoke more pot" sounds pretty good to them. They also love to point out how much money will be saved when we aren't fighting "over there".

Too many times I see these people doing and saying the stupidest things in the name of the Libertarian Party. Throwing things at Sean hannity during the 2008 GOP convention is a prime example. It has been said many times and it's true, that sometimes Ron Paul's worst enemy is his supporters.

The worst, in my opinion is their preference for the democrats over the GOP if they have to make the choice. I heard just last week, a person on a local libertarian talk show state that he's rather have Obama than rick Santorum. That's an exmaple of a person who is only a libertarian because of one or two issues, and listening to him, I'll bet he just wants to smoke pot unmolested. There is no way that a knowledgeable and rational libertarian would say such a thing. I have heard this same sentiment a few times before, and it's rediculous. Barack hussein Obama is the polar opposite of everything that the Libertarian Party stands for. no rational thinking libertarian can say that Rick Santorum is in the same category.

It's great that our political clout is slowly increasing and although Ron Paul will never be POTUS, I hope I live to see a Libertarian in the White House. but you people need to really look at the Libertarian Party's platform and payattention to the WHOLE thing.

And btw, Ron Paul, if he were to somehow get elected, would not be able to make drugs legal, not in any way shape or form. The POTUS is not Ceasar and he cannot just do whatever he wants to.

 

[dblack]

I have been a Libertarian for at least 25 years. Longer, if you count the time I was a Libertarian without knowing there was such a thing....

Got ya beat by a few years, but no point in splitting hairs....

The worst, in my opinion is their preference for the democrats over the GOP if they have to make the choice. I heard just last week, a person on a local libertarian talk show state that he'd rather have Obama than rick Santorum. That's an exmaple of a person who is only a libertarian because of one or two issues, and listening to him, I'll bet he just wants to smoke pot unmolested. There is no way that a knowledgeable and rational libertarian would say such a thing. I have heard this same sentiment a few times before, and it's ridiculous. Barack hussein Obama is the polar opposite of everything that the Libertarian Party stands for. no rational thinking libertarian can say that Rick Santorum is in the same category.

I disagree. They're both pretty bad, but I'd consider Obama, if only slightly, less dangerous than Santorum.

It's great that our political clout is slowly increasing and although Ron Paul will never be POTUS, I hope I live to see a Libertarian in the White House. but you people need to really look at the Libertarian Party's platform and payattention to the WHOLE thing.

And btw, Ron Paul, if he were to somehow get elected, would not be able to make drugs legal, not in any way shape or form. The POTUS is not Ceasar and he cannot just do whatever he wants to.

Not exactly sure what you're intent is for this thread, but I think I might be one of the people you're addressing, despite the fact that I'm not a recent adopter of the libertarian ideology. In fact, I do see greater hope for the libertarian cause among self-described liberals than with conservatives. Setting aside the actual policies of the Democrats and the Republicans, the most important difference between liberals and conservatives is in their attitude toward authoritarianism.

While people of both leanings will support authoritarian policies, liberals will at least find some discomfort in the idea. Their problem is one of misunderstanding, in not realizing how their good intent is being used against them by unscrupulous leaders. Conservatives, on the other hand, will cheer for overbearing government when it suits their needs, or placates their fears. The reaction to 9/11 should have proven this to us if nothing else.

In my view, conservatives are willing to play along with libertarian proposals when they add up to lower taxes or oppose social reform they don't like. But when it comes to real freedom, they don't really like it much. With liberals, the challenge is showing them that economic freedom is fundamental. Once they get that, they essentially ARE libertarians for the most part.

 

[PredFan]

I disagree. They're both pretty bad, but I'd consider Obama, if only slightly, less dangerous than Santorum.

I don't see how you could rationalize that statement. Unless you are a one-issue type Libertarian. you are irrationally afraid of Santorum's Theocratic Political beliefs. What exatly are you afraid of? Do you think that there is any even remote chance that a president alone can reverse Roe vs Wade? Do you think that he can again, all by himself, make contraceptives illegal? Obama otoh, already is taking away fiscal andpersonal liberties. we don't have to imagine a highly unlikely scenario for that. It's happening already. Obama is worse my multiple multiples.

Not exactly sure what you're intent is for this thread, but I think I might be one of the people you're addressing, despite the fact that I'm not a recent adopter of the libertarian ideology. In fact, I do see greater hope for the libertarian cause among self-described liberals than with conservatives. Setting aside the actual policies of the Democrats and the Republicans, the most important difference between liberals and conservatives is in their attitude toward authoritarianism.

And liberals, especially progressives, are the MOST authoritarian.

While people of both leanings will support authoritarian policies, liberals will at least find some discomfort in the idea.

No they don't. They believe in government. They want the government controlling commerce, industry, finances, healthcare, and they want them providing entitlements of al kinds. They care very little that the same government that provides also restricts.

Conservatives, on the other hand, will cheer for overbearing government when it suits their needs, or placates their fears. The reaction to 9/11 should have proven this to us if nothing else.

This is true. As it is true of liberals. You do realize that the reaction to 9-11 was bi-partisan right?

I In my view, conservatives are willing to play along with libertarian proposals when they add up to lower taxes or oppose social reform they don't like. But when it comes to real freedom, they don't really like it much. With liberals, the challenge is showing them that economic freedom is fundamental. Once they get that, they essentially ARE libertarians for the most part.

Even if I granted you that, and I don't, obama is not that kind of libveral. He isn't innocently mislead by the "powers that be". He knows full well what he is doing, and what he is doing is authoritarain in the extreme. For ANY libertarian to say thay they would support obama over Santorum or any GOP candidate is absurd in the extreme. Obama stands solidly behind everything that the Libertarian Party is against.

 

[PredFan]

Obama has not stopped nation-building.
Obama did not close Gittmo.
Obama did not reduce our military presence.
Obama did not reverse the Patriot Act.
Obama did not stop the subsidizing of businesses and industries.
Obama has increased the size of government.
Obama does end-arounds of the Constitution.

 

[uscitizen]

Many started claiming to be libertarians around the second Bush term.
Just embaressed republicans mostly.

 

[bripat9643]

Not exactly sure what you're intent is for this thread, but I think I might be one of the people you're addressing, despite the fact that I'm not a recent adopter of the libertarian ideology. In fact, I do see greater hope for the libertarian cause among self-described liberals than with conservatives. Setting aside the actual policies of the Democrats and the Republicans, the most important difference between liberals and conservatives is in their attitude toward authoritarianism.

While people of both leanings will support authoritarian policies, liberals will at least find some discomfort in the idea. Their problem is one of misunderstanding, in not realizing how their good intent is being used against them by unscrupulous leaders. Conservatives, on the other hand, will cheer for overbearing government when it suits their needs, or placates their fears. The reaction to 9/11 should have proven this to us if nothing else.

You're exactly the kind of person he's talking about. Liberals are bootlicking servile toadies. The idea that they make better libertarians than conservatives is absurd. I've read your stuff, and you don't come off as any libertarian. You come off as a liberal. You're fan of big government. You support Obamacare. No one who supports Obama care has any justification to call himself a libertarian.

In my view, conservatives are willing to play along with libertarian proposals when they add up to lower taxes or oppose social reform they don't like. But when it comes to real freedom, they don't really like it much. With liberals, the challenge is showing them that economic freedom is fundamental. Once they get that, they essentially ARE libertarians for the most part.

ROFL. No they aren't. Liberals don't believe in economic or social freedom. Any claim that they do is utterly pretentious.

 

[PredFan]

Many started claiming to be libertarians around the second Bush term.
Just embaressed republicans mostly.

Partisan hackery at it's finest, but not entirely untrue.

During the first and second Bush term was when Ron Paul recognized what Bush was doing, and doing in the name of conservatism. It was that time that he pushed to get his message out, and his message began to resonate with people. Yes, some in the GOP, those who were unhappy with Bush's un-conservative actions, went to Dr.Paul.

No Libertarian was happy with Bush, but compared to obama, Bush is a saint.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The reason I can't cast my libertarian vote for Romney or Santorum is that either one of them will put the interests of their respective religions ahead of the interests of the American people if push ever came to shove.

As far as why libertarians gravitate toward democrats over republicans in general... Social Conservatism and fiscal irresponsibility is one hell of a lot scarier than social democracy and fiscal irresponsibility.

With both parties irresponsibly tied to their master-lobbyists with regard to government spending, the only comparison left for a young libertarian to make is on social issues, and republicans are desirous of far too much government control in our homes and bedrooms for a libertarian to stomach.

 

[PredFan]

Not exactly sure what you're intent is for this thread, but I think I might be one of the people you're addressing, despite the fact that I'm not a recent adopter of the libertarian ideology. In fact, I do see greater hope for the libertarian cause among self-described liberals than with conservatives. Setting aside the actual policies of the Democrats and the Republicans, the most important difference between liberals and conservatives is in their attitude toward authoritarianism.

While people of both leanings will support authoritarian policies, liberals will at least find some discomfort in the idea. Their problem is one of misunderstanding, in not realizing how their good intent is being used against them by unscrupulous leaders. Conservatives, on the other hand, will cheer for overbearing government when it suits their needs, or placates their fears. The reaction to 9/11 should have proven this to us if nothing else.

You're exactly the kind of person he's talking about. Liberals are bootlicking servile toadies. The idea that they make better libertarians than conservatives is absurd. I've read your stuff, and you don't come off as any libertarian. You come off as a liberal. You're fan of big government. You support Obamacare. No one who supports Obama care has any justification to call himself a libertarian.

In my view, conservatives are willing to play along with libertarian proposals when they add up to lower taxes or oppose social reform they don't like. But when it comes to real freedom, they don't really like it much. With liberals, the challenge is showing them that economic freedom is fundamental. Once they get that, they essentially ARE libertarians for the most part.

ROFL. No they aren't. Liberals don't believe in economic or social freedom. Any claim that they do is utterly pretentious.

Hmm...I am not as familiar with his posts. It does seem suspicious that some one who claims to have been a Libertarian for that long could not possibly believe the crap he was spouting.

 

[nitroz]

Obama has not stopped nation-building.
Obama did not close Gittmo.
Obama did not reduce our military presence.
Obama did not reverse the Patriot Act.
Obama did not stop the subsidizing of businesses and industries.
Obama has increased the size of government.
Obama does end-arounds of the Constitution.

Well, I understand the gitmo situation.
The goal of it is to not bring them to the US because if we did, they would be entitled to rights. So he tried to see if he could get any allied nations to take the prisoners, and they declined. So, gitmo is here to stay since they don't want to give the prisoners rights in any way.

He reduced military presence in Iraq while we shifted more focus to Afghanistan in hopes of pulling out soon.

 

[nitroz]

The reason I can't cast my libertarian vote for Romney or Santorum is that either one of them will put the interests of their respective religions ahead of the interests of the American people if push ever came to shove.

Aren't Santorum and Romney trying to do that?

Thats why they shouldn't be in politics.

 

[nitroz]

I also love how alot of this hate for the unconstitutional laws is going to Obama. Shouldn't we direct that anger to Congress aswell? They are the ones who pass the damn laws!

 

[uscitizen]

Many started claiming to be libertarians around the second Bush term.
Just embaressed republicans mostly.

Partisan hackery at it's finest, but not entirely untrue.

During the first and second Bush term was when Ron Paul recognized what Bush was doing, and doing in the name of conservatism. It was that time that he pushed to get his message out, and his message began to resonate with people. Yes, some in the GOP, those who were unhappy with Bush's un-conservative actions, went to Dr.Paul.

No Libertarian was happy with Bush, but compared to obama, Bush is a saint.

And yet Paul runs as a Republican?

 

[uscitizen]

I also love how alot of this hate for the unconstitutional laws is going to Obama. Shouldn't we direct that anger to Congress aswell? They are the ones who pass the damn laws!

Naah those laws have to be passed by the republican controlled house.

 

[nitroz]

I also love how alot of this hate for the unconstitutional laws is going to Obama. Shouldn't we direct that anger to Congress aswell? They are the ones who pass the damn laws!

Naah those laws have to be passed by the republican controlled house.

Doesn't matter. We need to hold those accountable responsible for their actions.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Many started claiming to be libertarians around the second Bush term.
Just embaressed republicans mostly.

Partisan hackery at it's finest, but not entirely untrue.

During the first and second Bush term was when Ron Paul recognized what Bush was doing, and doing in the name of conservatism. It was that time that he pushed to get his message out, and his message began to resonate with people. Yes, some in the GOP, those who were unhappy with Bush's un-conservative actions, went to Dr.Paul.

No Libertarian was happy with Bush, but compared to obama, Bush is a saint.

I disagree. Bush was a total sell out - willing to do anything for the social conservatives who want total control of our lives outside of work, and working hard to find more ways for his friends to raid the treasury with his war and medicare spending.

Obama is ineffectual as a leader - the prime example being a call for an end to tax favoritism in one industry while promoting tax favoritism in another, when fair and simple taxes for all with no favoritism is the answer - but at least he continues to call 'bullshit!' on the corporate bullshitters when he speaks.

 

[uscitizen]

I also love how alot of this hate for the unconstitutional laws is going to Obama. Shouldn't we direct that anger to Congress aswell? They are the ones who pass the damn laws!

Naah those laws have to be passed by the republican controlled house.

Doesn't matter. We need to hold those accountable responsible for their actions.

some of we less partisan ones do.
I blame most of our current woes on past congresses.
Many just blame it all on one party in congress or the current president.

 

[PredFan]

The reason I can't cast my libertarian vote for Romney or Santorum is that either one of them will put the interests of their respective religions ahead of the interests of the American people if push ever came to shove.

Ive heard this a couple of times from Libertarians and I always ask them a question that they cannot answer. What is it you think that they will do as potus? What are you afraid of? Do you think that the potus has the power all by himself to end Roe vs Wade? Do you think that the potus all by himself will be able to ban contraceptives? Tell me what you think that Romney or Santorum will do as potus that is based on his religion and tell me why you think that the Democrats and the Republicans in the House and Senate will follow along with it.

Otoh, Obama is doing things RIGHT NOW that are infringing on our personal and fiscal liberties. We do not have to imagine it. It is happening and will only get worse in a 2nd term.

As far as why libertarians gravitate toward democrats over republicans in general... Social Conservatism and fiscal irresponsibility is one hell of a lot scarier than social democracy and fiscal irresponsibility.

No, they don't. Only the one-issue, newbie Libertarians do. Rn Paul is running as a Republican, not a Democrat. Why do you think that is? It's because he knows that the GOP is closer to his beliefs than the DNC. No Libertarian, not Ron Pau, not Gary johnson, is running as a Democrat.

With both parties irresponsibly tied to their master-lobbyists with regard to government spending, the only comparison left for a young libertarian to make is on social issues, and republicans are desirous of far too much government control in our homes and bedrooms for a libertarian to stomach.

Unfortunately, that is only what they think. It isn't in the least true, and if the young Libertarians would put down their bongs long enough to spend time reading the Libertarian Party's platform and then comparing it to what Obama is doing, they would realize that even though we are screwed, we are much less screwed by the GOP.

 

[PredFan]

Many started claiming to be libertarians around the second Bush term.
Just embaressed republicans mostly.

Partisan hackery at it's finest, but not entirely untrue.

During the first and second Bush term was when Ron Paul recognized what Bush was doing, and doing in the name of conservatism. It was that time that he pushed to get his message out, and his message began to resonate with people. Yes, some in the GOP, those who were unhappy with Bush's un-conservative actions, went to Dr.Paul.

No Libertarian was happy with Bush, but compared to obama, Bush is a saint.

I disagree. Bush was a total sell out - willing to do anything for the social conservatives who want total control of our lives outside of work, and working hard to find more ways for his friends to raid the treasury with his war and medicare spending.

Obama is ineffectual as a leader - the prime example being a call for an end to tax favoritism in one industry while promoting tax favoritism in another, when fair and simple taxes for all with no favoritism is the answer - but at least he continues to call 'bullshit!' on the corporate bullshitters when he speaks.

So tell me what Bush did for the SoCons?

Your attacks on Bush are irrelevant. we are talking about Obama here. We don't have to imagine what Obama will do, he has already grown government, spent recklessly, raided the treasury, borrowed bazillions, taken over private business, infringed on our personal, private and Constitutionally protected liberties. You can only speculate, with suspension of dis-blief I might add, what the horribvle things the GOP might do, but we don't have to imagine that with obama.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The reason I can't cast my libertarian vote for Romney or Santorum is that either one of them will put the interests of their respective religions ahead of the interests of the American people if push ever came to shove.

Ive heard this a couple of times from Libertarians and I always ask them a question that they cannot answer. What is it you think that they will do as potus? What are you afraid of? Do you think that the potus has the power all by himself to end Roe vs Wade? Do you think that the potus all by himself will be able to ban contraceptives? Tell me what you think that Romney or Santorum will do as potus that is based on his religion and tell me why you think that the Democrats and the Republicans in the House and Senate will follow along with it.

Otoh, Obama is doing things RIGHT NOW that are infringing on our personal and fiscal liberties. We do not have to imagine it. It is happening and will only get worse in a 2nd term.

Turn the table there, Bro'.

What are you afraid of? Do you think that the potus has the power all by himself?

The President has the power to set the agenda, and the absolute LAST thing I want to see on our national agenda is more social conservatism to bring national behavior in compliance to religious tradition.