So let me get this pipeline shit straight

[boilermaker55]

Why is the federal govt involved anyway?

I thought the pipeline was a private venture and woudl deal with the states and municipalities it wants to cross?


But no it must use the federal govt to sledgehammer the pipeline thru? Sounds like private industry trying to use the govt to me.

It is an inter-state project.

PLEASE don't confuse them with definitions.

 

[tinydancer]

Why is the federal govt involved anyway?

I thought the pipeline was a private venture and woudl deal with the states and municipalities it wants to cross?


But no it must use the federal govt to sledgehammer the pipeline thru? Sounds like private industry trying to use the govt to me.

It is an inter-state project.

FYI The State Department is involved because the pipeline crosses an international border.
And because of this a Presidential Permit is required.

 

[tinydancer]

And for those that aren't complete enviro weenie whackjobs but really want to learn about the stringent monitoring of the Oil Sands here's a great link.

Environment Canada - Pollution and Waste - A Foundation for the Future: Building an Environmental Monitoring System for the Oil Sands

Dirty Oil is bullshit. And what I really find stunning are the complete morons who think Obama giving money to develop offshore drilling in Brazil is aok and don't have a problem accepting oil that has to be shipped in tankers across an ocean but go out of their stupid freaking minds over Phase Three of the Keystone.

And by the way, where were all the enviro whackos when Keystone 1 and 2 were being built delivering oil to Illinois and Oklahoma?

 

[idb]

And do YOU have a problem with free markets? Capitalism?

Not at all....how did you read that?

But, if the oil's sold to the highest bidder, how does that guarantee the US's supply and keep prices down?

Because the people buying THAT oil won't buy other oil.
Is that so difficult to understand?

Oooohhh!
I see now.
The world's going to be so awash with oil that the North American producers will have nowhere else to sell except in their home market.
I failed to take that into account.

Combined with T's idea of making more crude oil there should no problems.

 

[BlindBoo]

Obama says no pipeline because.....

1. He wants to get oil from unstable nations
2. He wants to protect a few thousand lizards who apparently wouldn't understand how to crawl under or over a fucking pipe.
3. He likes gasoline prices at 3 dollars compared to 1.83 when he took office.
4. Apparently some deer are incapable of living on one side of the pipe over the other.
5. We haven't lost enough to China yet.
6. He doesn't want the states involved to make the extra revenue.
7. 20k + jobs is just a laughing stock
8. Wants to save a few sand dunes in Nebraska.
9. Says the gop gave him too short a deadline despite this being in the works and studied for years.
10. God I really despise Obama.

Ps. We have 10's of thousands of miles of pipelines currently in use in this country without major incident. There really is NO EXCUSE for this kind of ineptness.

http://www.theodora.com/pipelines/united_states_pipelines_map.jpg

I'll go with none of the above.

 

[SFC Ollie]

I honestly do not remember the United States ever being this partisan...... Fuck what's good for the country, lets make sure the party rules.....

Yes the Republicans are using this for political gain, and Yes Obama thinks he can turn it around to his gain.

And yes it's all dirty fucking politics. And yes the pipeline is good for the USA. So simple when you take the politics out of it...........

 

[BlindBoo]

And for those that aren't complete enviro weenie whackjobs but really want to learn about the stringent monitoring of the Oil Sands here's a great link.

Environment Canada - Pollution and Waste - A Foundation for the Future: Building an Environmental Monitoring System for the Oil Sands

Dirty Oil is bullshit. And what I really find stunning are the complete morons who think Obama giving money to develop offshore drilling in Brazil is aok and don't have a problem accepting oil that has to be shipped in tankers across an ocean but go out of their stupid freaking minds over Phase Three of the Keystone.

And by the way, where were all the enviro whackos when Keystone 1 and 2 were being built delivering oil to Illinois and Oklahoma?

Let me clear up one of your misconceptions. President Obama did not give any money to Brazil to develop an off shore oil field. The real story is a proposed $2 billion commitment from the U.S. Export-Import Bank to the Brazilian oil company Petrobras to ensure the purchase of U.S. goods as the company explores for oil. Get that, it was a proposed loan to ensure the purchase of US goods and services. I think Chase even set up a line of credit for them. However it was never used last I saw.

It's call tar sand for a reason. It's dirty, that is it (bitumen) is filled with contaminants.

 

[Claudette]

You know, there is ignorance and then there is stupidity. After reading the posts in this thread, I guess you have to deal with complete and total ignorance AND stupidity from Barry and his parrots on the left. Some of the absolute CRAP that I have read here just defines what is wrong with this country at the moment.

The first piece of sheer ridiculousness that I read was the fact that if we build the XL Pipeline, then it will RAISE the price of gas. Huh? Even for the left, who despises the capatalistic and free enterprise system, this is one of the most ignorant statements that I have ever heard. Would ANYBODY who KNOWS the oil and gas industry please speak up if you even REMOTELY believe that is the case? (Crickets chirping). It would LOWER the price of gas, some industry experts believe, as much as $1.50 per gallon. It would provide MORE crude to refineries on the Gulf coast and it would be available to the eastern half of the country.

Now here's one that I just love. Well, whether we build the pipeline or not, most of it would go to China. GAWD!!!! Right now there are 30,000 miles of pipelines under the United States. There already is one XL pipeline from Canada to Cushing, Oklahoma. What there isn't and there NEVER has been is a pipeline that goes from the east coast to the west coast carrying crude. Why? A little thing called the Rocky Mountains. You could build one now if you had a pumping station about every other mile. But imagine the cost of that baby. If the XL pipeline is built, the refined product would be on the gulf coast. IF China wants it then they would have to put tankers through the Panama canal OR they would have to traverse around South America. The cost to them would be enormous, but they would pay AND they would pay us. The primary customer of that refined product would be primarily the east coast of the United States. When the pipeline really got going, then I would imagine that it would then be sold to the Europeans. It would be nice to have the French sucking at our teet for once.

I really like this one. Well, the oil from the tar sands in Alberta is "dirty" oil. Really? And have you ever been around a barrel of oil that comes out of the ground? You can't use it for anything. It has to be refined stupid. After you refine it, then you get gasoline, diesel, machine oil, etc. After refining, there isn't one bit of difference between the gasoline refined from Texas crude, Kansas heavy, or Alberta tar. Good God people, use your freakin brains.

Why if you build the XL Pipeline, then it will completely destroy the environment. Oh my God. There are 30,000 miles of pipeline (carrying crude and refined products) under this country right NOW. In Nebraska where the tree-huggers are so fired up about this lizard, there are pipelines that go right through that area. If people knew how close they lived to a pipeline that runs under their feet, they would be amazed. And most of them just keep working without a hitch.

Oh, and let's not forget the energy independence, the affect it would have on our national security, the ability to pump some of it into the National Petroleum Reserve domes in Texas AND the simple fact that Barry wouldn't have to bow to Saudi Sheiks anymore (although I secretly think he would).

If you don't know anything about oil and gas, then just say so. When you open your mouth and you parrot the stupidity of organizations like "Friends of the Earth" or other 'progressive' people, to those of us who are in that industry, you just look stupid AND ignorant.

Great post Sniperman.

I'm sure you noticed none of the rabid lefties on this board want to address your common sense post??

I'm not surprised. Are you??

But you choose to ignore other facts around this bill. As to why in the hell did they put it in with the tax cut bill. Why did they want an answer so quickly without reviewing. Remember all the bitching your side did about not allowing anyone to read a bill through. Environmental studies have a huge impact. But what the hell, run the pipeline so we greedy oil-consuming bastards and continue to gluttonize with oil!
Crude rude and ignorant.
Your post is not that exciting to others who think more about consequences.
Unless you are a glutton.

Bullshit.


Thise pipeline has been studied for 3 fucking years. More than any pipeline in this nations history.

Crude, rude and ignorant just about sums you up. Idiot.

 

[Trajan]

And for those that aren't complete enviro weenie whackjobs but really want to learn about the stringent monitoring of the Oil Sands here's a great link.

Environment Canada - Pollution and Waste - A Foundation for the Future: Building an Environmental Monitoring System for the Oil Sands

Dirty Oil is bullshit. And what I really find stunning are the complete morons who think Obama giving money to develop offshore drilling in Brazil is aok and don't have a problem accepting oil that has to be shipped in tankers across an ocean but go out of their stupid freaking minds over Phase Three of the Keystone.

And by the way, where were all the enviro whackos when Keystone 1 and 2 were being built delivering oil to Illinois and Oklahoma?

Let me clear up one of your misconceptions. President Obama did not give any money to Brazil to develop an off shore oil field. The real story is a proposed $2 billion commitment from the U.S. Export-Import Bank to the Brazilian oil company Petrobras to ensure the purchase of U.S. goods as the company explores for oil. Get that, it was a proposed loan to ensure the purchase of US goods and services. I think Chase even set up a line of credit for them. However it was never used last I saw.

It's call tar sand for a reason. It's dirty, that is it (bitumen) is filled with contaminants.

and? so what?

 

[Trajan]

A quick review for the idiots, morons, and Rightwing partisan hacks:

• Pipeline was proposed.
• Nebraska objected to pipeline running near one of her aquifers.
• Teabagger obstructionists in the House tied the continuation of the payroll tax to an agreement for a decision from the WH.
• Pipeline people told Nebraska they would find another route, but it would take X-months to complete.
• Decision on re-routing pipeline is still months away.
• Obama cannot make a decision until new plans are in place.
• Obama under a Teabagger House time clock.
• Obama denies pipeline, due to unknowns about the re-routing.
• Obama clearly states that the denial is NOT based on the merits of the pipeline, just the incomplete plans.
• Teabagger Wingnut obstructionists play political games, blaming Obama.

you are carrying over your dipshitynis from other threads now, excellent! keep up the bad work!

 

[idb]

I haven't forgotten. But there is a slight difference for your few miles a week driven to my hundreds and hundreds. You do the math. It would help both of us but in my case it could save me hundreds of dollars a month. That's half of a possible new laborers salary or money for my retirement or money to invest. There have been weeks where I have had to spend over 300 per week on fuel to function. When gas was at 4 bucks a gallon I would often opt for hotel rooms to save money. And I'm just a small business. Translate those possible savings to a company with a fleet or a company like FedEx.

They Keystone XL project would likely have increased the cost of gas in the US.

You keep harping on that. Please explain how an increase of 700,000 barrels/day will cause an increase in the price of oil.

Here is a Cornell University report conclusion

KXL will divert Tar Sands oil now supplying Midwest refineries, so it can be sold at
higher prices to the Gulf Coast and export markets. As a result, consumers in the
Midwest could be paying 10 to 20 cents more per gallon for gasoline and diesel
fuel.

http://www.ilr.cornell.edu/globallaborinstitute/research/upload/GLI_KeystoneXL_Reportpdf.pdf

 

[Trajan]

Obama has basically no control over the price of gas. Bush didnt, Clinton didnt, Reagan didnt, My mother doesnt, Nor do you.

One might be able to affect a couple cents here or there but the world market controls said oil. All Oil goes to the world markets, Unless you want government to nationalize it and take over.

If you increase the supply.....
If it is less expensive to transport.....
If you don't have to pay foreign security, tarriffs, etc....

But don't let reason stand in your way.

If you increase the supply to who? This oil is not going to be sold in the U S A. Contrarily to your supply/demand theory the refining of this new oil that will be sold overseas will put more preassure on refining capacity here making domestic supply more scarce and therefore more expensive.

Sure ...less expensive to transport...FOR THE CHINESE!

WE are not buying the oil...WE don't have to pay tarrifs or security for oil that will not be going to end up in our automobiles.

"But don't let reason stand in your way"

you've been played again bro. we don't need to buy for instance; Venezuela's oil, which hello, is a very heavy crude requireing ( like the tar sands) a more concentrated refining method. .....see it now?

 

[Trajan]

They Keystone XL project would likely have increased the cost of gas in the US.

You keep harping on that. Please explain how an increase of 700,000 barrels/day will cause an increase in the price of oil.

Here is a Cornell University report conclusion

KXL will divert Tar Sands oil now supplying Midwest refineries, so it can be sold at
higher prices to the Gulf Coast and export markets. As a result, consumers in the
Midwest could be paying 10 to 20 cents more per gallon for gasoline and diesel
fuel.

http://www.ilr.cornell.edu/globallaborinstitute/research/upload/GLI_KeystoneXL_Reportpdf.pdf

ergo- if iran shuts down the straits of hormuz prices will drop!!!

fan-fucking- tastic.

hurrah for the mullahs!


some of you really really really need to think on your own before you repeat everything you hear, just becasue you agree with it. seriously....

 

[idb]

You keep harping on that. Please explain how an increase of 700,000 barrels/day will cause an increase in the price of oil.

Here is a Cornell University report conclusion

KXL will divert Tar Sands oil now supplying Midwest refineries, so it can be sold at
higher prices to the Gulf Coast and export markets. As a result, consumers in the
Midwest could be paying 10 to 20 cents more per gallon for gasoline and diesel
fuel.

http://www.ilr.cornell.edu/globallaborinstitute/research/upload/GLI_KeystoneXL_Reportpdf.pdf

ergo- if iran shuts down the straits of hormuz prices will drop!!!

fan-fucking- tastic.

hurrah for the mullahs!


some of you really really really need to think on your own before you repeat everything you hear, just becasue you agree with it. seriously....

Ummm...they're discussing US domestic prices here.
Think it through a little bit yourself.
If it's cheaper to get the oil to a refinery on the coast it will be more available for export and sale to the highest bidder.
The domestic market will have to compete for that oil against the international market.

 

[Trajan]

Here is a Cornell University report conclusion

http://www.ilr.cornell.edu/globallaborinstitute/research/upload/GLI_KeystoneXL_Reportpdf.pdf

ergo- if iran shuts down the straits of hormuz prices will drop!!!

fan-fucking- tastic.

hurrah for the mullahs!


some of you really really really need to think on your own before you repeat everything you hear, just becasue you agree with it. seriously....

Ummm...they're discussing US domestic prices here.
Think it through a little bit yourself.
If it's cheaper to get the oil to a refinery on the coast it will be more available for export and sale to the highest bidder.
The domestic market will have to compete for that oil against the international market.

OK, Q- is it cheaper and smarter to buy, move and refine Venezuelan oil or pipeline oil from a secure flow via a friendly landmassed neighbor??

 

[OldUSAFSniper]

You know, people would be a lot more credible if they would just tell the truth.

For example, if TruthMatters would just say: "I have no idea about oil and gas, other than the fact that I go to a gas station and put the little pipe in the car and squeeze the handle and then gas comes out. But I'm going to be against the XL pipeline because the Republicans are for it and President Obama is against it. And everyone knows that I am a tremendous political hack, regardless of the FACTS."

Or if those that want to tell me that sending oil down a pipeline could actually INCREASE the cost of the finished product. They really should just say, "You know, since progressives are against this, I will be too. Regardless of how much it will help the country. Never mind the fact that I have absolutely NO CLUE about what it costs or anything else. If "Friends of the Earth" publish something, then by God I'll parrot it like it's the absolute gospel.

Or this one. Yep, 'dirty' oil. You know it's black and so greasy and if you spill a barrell of it on the ground it stays there forever and smells. Why it will get into the aquifer and make us all sick.

And there are those on this board that just roasted Dick Cheney for bringing in oil and gas experts to craft energy policy. I get this suspicion every once in a while, that this country is just plain stupid.

 

[Inthemiddle]

OK, Q- is it cheaper and smarter to buy, move and refine Venezuelan oil or pipeline oil from a secure flow via a friendly landmassed neighbor??

The Keystone has very little to do with Americans buying oil from Canada. Most of the oil flowing on the Keystone would have been sent to the Gulf and sold to other countries.

 

[Inthemiddle]

For example, if TruthMatters would just say: "I have no idea about oil and gas, other than the fact that I go to a gas station and put the little pipe in the car and squeeze the handle and then gas comes out.

No doubt, that's what you should say, and then, by your own standards, SHUT THE FUCK UP.

 

[Mr. H.]

For example, if TruthMatters would just say: "I have no idea about oil and gas, other than the fact that I go to a gas station and put the little pipe in the car and squeeze the handle and then gas comes out.

No doubt, that's what you should say, and then, by your own standards, SHUT THE FUCK UP.

I reviewing your posts, you're hardly an expert.
You're not even in the ball park on some of your posts.

 

[logical4u]

Obama has basically no control over the price of gas. Bush didnt, Clinton didnt, Reagan didnt, My mother doesnt, Nor do you.

One might be able to affect a couple cents here or there but the world market controls said oil. All Oil goes to the world markets, Unless you want government to nationalize it and take over.

If you increase the supply.....
If it is less expensive to transport.....
If you don't have to pay foreign security, tarriffs, etc....

But don't let reason stand in your way.

If you increase the supply to who? This oil is not going to be sold in the U S A. Contrarily to your supply/demand theory the refining of this new oil that will be sold overseas will put more preassure on refining capacity here making domestic supply more scarce and therefore more expensive.

Sure ...less expensive to transport...FOR THE CHINESE!

WE are not buying the oil...WE don't have to pay tarrifs or security for oil that will not be going to end up in our automobiles.

"But don't let reason stand in your way"

If the supply is increased (world wide), the price goes......
But don't let reason get in the way.