So let me get this pipeline shit straight

[uscitizen]

Umm I do not think most of our refineries are set up to refine tar sand oil.

 

[Trajan]

OK, Q- is it cheaper and smarter to buy, move and refine Venezuelan oil or pipeline oil from a secure flow via a friendly landmassed neighbor??

The Keystone has very little to do with Americans buying oil from Canada. Most of the oil flowing on the Keystone would have been sent to the Gulf and sold to other countries.

really? How?

and you want to take a shot at the question?

 

[logical4u]

Obama has basically no control over the price of gas. Bush didnt, Clinton didnt, Reagan didnt, My mother doesnt, Nor do you.

One might be able to affect a couple cents here or there but the world market controls said oil. All Oil goes to the world markets, Unless you want government to nationalize it and take over.

If you increase the supply.....
If it is less expensive to transport.....
If you don't have to pay foreign security, tarriffs, etc....

But don't let reason stand in your way.

Ummm...won't it just be sold to the highest bidder?

Okay, this is for the libs/progressives/socialists/communists/homosexual activists/islamic extremists/environmentalist (choose one, they all act the same): If supply increases, say 20,000,000 barrels of oil when the world is currently producing 88,000,000 barrels, that is more oil that needs to be sold (the producers do not have infinite storage capacities), and if the equipment is operating, they do not want to "moth ball" it. Those selling the oil want to "move it" and are more likely to drop the price for bulk purchases and those willing to contract amounts in the future for a price set now. Once competition drives the price down, it is more likely to stay down unless the supply decreases. Those prices for oil are across the world, it does not matter if "that" oil stays in the USA or not. More supply, typically, drives the price lower.

 

[logical4u]

Ummm...won't it just be sold to the highest bidder?

And do YOU have a problem with free markets? Capitalism?

In that spirit I have a problem with idiots calling it OUR oil.

Not to be picky, but where in that quote did anyone call it "our oil"?

It belongs to the contract appointed interests, and then to the "highest bidder".

 

[Full-Auto]

If you increase the supply.....
If it is less expensive to transport.....
If you don't have to pay foreign security, tarriffs, etc....

But don't let reason stand in your way.

Ummm...won't it just be sold to the highest bidder?

Okay, this is for the libs/progressives/socialists/communists/homosexual activists/islamic extremists/environmentalist (choose one, they all act the same): If supply increases, say 20,000,000 barrels of oil when the world is currently producing 88,000,000 barrels, that is more oil that needs to be sold (the producers do not have infinite storage capacities), and if the equipment is operating, they do not want to "moth ball" it. Those selling the oil want to "move it" and are more likely to drop the price for bulk purchases and those willing to contract amounts in the future for a price set now. Once competition drives the price down, it is more likely to stay down unless the supply decreases. Those prices for oil are across the world, it does not matter if "that" oil stays in the USA or not. More supply, typically, drives the price lower.

Hold it......... Youre speaking to people who believe a welfare dollar creates extra money out of thin air. Where an increase in any budget is a cut.

They dont have enough brain matter accumulated on any economic topic to even be listened to.

 

[logical4u]

cancel NASCAR?

For the love of who ever you praise, please tell me that was a joke.

Yes. Cancel Nascar. What a great idea. I've always thought it was a waste of a sport. That will bring your precious gas prices down.

well fuck it. Cancel all sports. After all they cost money through medical care and we need to lower medical costs.

Stop sex too. It causes children, and environmentalists have declared them bad for the environment. If it doesn't cause children, it increases the risk of illness and disease (not to mention mental illnesses). That will really lower medical costs!

 

[Toro]

I think I'm becoming a Republican again.

 

[Toro]

If you increase the supply to who? This oil is not going to be sold in the U S A. Contrarily to your supply/demand theory the refining of this new oil that will be sold overseas will put more preassure on refining capacity here making domestic supply more scarce and therefore more expensive.

Sure ...less expensive to transport...FOR THE CHINESE!

WE are not buying the oil...WE don't have to pay tarrifs or security for oil that will not be going to end up in our automobiles.

"But don't let reason stand in your way"

The oil will be sold to the highest bidder. All the oil refined in that part of the country is not exported. Most of it is sold in the US. Some is but most isn't. Why would all of the oil from Alberta be sold abroad?



EDIT - It should also be noted that the refined product exports are equal to roughly 10% of the oil the US produces and imports. And even if some of the Keystone oil were to be exported after being refined in the US, since the pipeline will not be built, that is profits lost permanently to American business.

 

[Toro]

BTW, here is US oil refining capacity utilization. If you were to extend this graph over the last 40 years, it would not look much different.

Keystone would have brought another 400k barrels a day into the US, roughly 2% of total refining capacity.

 

[Intense]

I think I'm becoming a Republican again.

 

[Mr. H.]

An important aspect of the Keystone project that I don't think has been addressed (at least not enough) is the fact that it will facilitate a conduit for land-locked crude inventories in the U.S. midwest, especially with the oil boom going on in North Dakota.

Because of this regional surplus, crude prices in such local markets (including Illinois) are discounted from the WTI benchmark anywhere from $5/barrel to $15/barrel. Add to that the spread between WTI and Brent, and we're seeing producers taking up to a $25/barrel cut in the price paid for their commodity.

So it's NOT all about Canadian oil making its way to the Gulf refineries, it's about U.S. oil finding an efficient pathway to market and bringing prices up to parity where they belong.

 

[tinydancer]

An important aspect of the Keystone project that I don't think has been addressed (at least not enough) is the fact that it will facilitate a conduit for land-locked crude inventories in the U.S. midwest, especially with the oil boom going on in North Dakota.

Because of this regional surplus, crude prices in such local markets (including Illinois) are discounted from the WTI benchmark anywhere from $5/barrel to $15/barrel. Add to that the spread between WTI and Brent, and we're seeing producers taking up to a $25/barrel cut in the price paid for their commodity.

So it's NOT all about Canadian oil making its way to the Gulf refineries, it's about U.S. oil finding an efficient pathway to market and bringing prices up to parity where they belong.

The reporting on the XL has been so skewered. I put this up in another thread (I'm losing track posting in all of them ) but it bears repeating.

And you've nailed it that one of the major benefits of this new extension is that American crude would enter XL at Baker, Montana and Cushing, Oklahoma.

 

[Intense]

If you increase the supply to who? This oil is not going to be sold in the U S A. Contrarily to your supply/demand theory the refining of this new oil that will be sold overseas will put more preassure on refining capacity here making domestic supply more scarce and therefore more expensive.

Sure ...less expensive to transport...FOR THE CHINESE!

WE are not buying the oil...WE don't have to pay tarrifs or security for oil that will not be going to end up in our automobiles.

"But don't let reason stand in your way"

If the supply is increased (world wide), the price goes......
But don't let reason get in the way.

not going to happen....Keep dreaming

Not if you and Obama can help it. Got it. You need to be in control.

 

[tinydancer]

Umm I do not think most of our refineries are set up to refine tar sand oil.

Here ya go:


Sheila McNulty, January 5, 2009, Financial Times -- US refineries are expanding operations to process oil from Canada's tar sands just as efforts are building to limit the use of the more polluting fuels.

There have been at least two proposals for new refineries in the US and about two dozen expansions to process tar sands oil. Canada's tar sands - the largest proven reserves outside Saudi Arabia - have become the focal point for the world's leading oil companies, which are increasingly being blocked from new opportunities by nationalism in oil-rich countries.

While the drop in oil prices, the credit crisis and slowing global economy could stall some projects on either side of the border, many refinery expansions are already under way, including those by BP, ConocoPhillips, Valero and Marathon.

Analysts estimate pipeline companies and refiners plan to invest more than $31bn by 2015 to export, process and distribute oil sands products. Investments in new tar sands production have risen in recent years as oil companies rush to the tar sands' 175bn barrels of reserves.

 

[freedombecki]

ergo- if iran shuts down the straits of hormuz prices will drop!!!

fan-fucking- tastic.

hurrah for the mullahs!


some of you really really really need to think on your own before you repeat everything you hear, just becasue you agree with it. seriously....

Ummm...they're discussing US domestic prices here.
Think it through a little bit yourself.
If it's cheaper to get the oil to a refinery on the coast it will be more available for export and sale to the highest bidder.
The domestic market will have to compete for that oil against the international market.

OK, Q- is it cheaper and smarter to buy, move and refine Venezuelan oil or pipeline oil from a secure flow via a friendly landmassed neighbor??

That is so true, Trajan. And as I recollect, it was to be oil headed to American refineries and domestic energy resources for the US.

 

[idb]

ergo- if iran shuts down the straits of hormuz prices will drop!!!

fan-fucking- tastic.

hurrah for the mullahs!


some of you really really really need to think on your own before you repeat everything you hear, just becasue you agree with it. seriously....

Ummm...they're discussing US domestic prices here.
Think it through a little bit yourself.
If it's cheaper to get the oil to a refinery on the coast it will be more available for export and sale to the highest bidder.
The domestic market will have to compete for that oil against the international market.

OK, Q- is it cheaper and smarter to buy, move and refine Venezuelan oil or pipeline oil from a secure flow via a friendly landmassed neighbor??

Smarter doesn't come into it in a free market...it'll go where the most profit is.

 

[Trajan]

I think I'm becoming a Republican again.

and while we are at it, in THIS particular thread. let me put to rest the aquifer BS...below is a map, its a map of the entire Ogallala aquifer, in lovely lavender. see all those networks and squiggly lines that look like burst capillaries on a drunkards nose?

Those are the 25 THOUSAND miles of pipelines already criss crossing the aquifer......

for a more detailed view-
http://heartland.org/sites/default/files/ogallala_aquifer_map.pdf

 

[Trajan]

Ummm...they're discussing US domestic prices here.
Think it through a little bit yourself.
If it's cheaper to get the oil to a refinery on the coast it will be more available for export and sale to the highest bidder.
The domestic market will have to compete for that oil against the international market.

OK, Q- is it cheaper and smarter to buy, move and refine Venezuelan oil or pipeline oil from a secure flow via a friendly landmassed neighbor??

Smarter doesn't come into it in a free market...it'll go where the most profit is.

so obama was wrong then?

 

[cluckthree]

If Canada is so anxious to sell oil to China, why do they want to build a thousand mile pipeline through our country, when they could build a much cheaper one straight to their own ports.
I understand that there are extensions to their own coastline, but why involve us at all? Is it just money and politics?

 

[HUGGY]

Obama says no pipeline because.....

1. He wants to get oil from unstable nations
2. He wants to protect a few thousand lizards who apparently wouldn't understand how to crawl under or over a fucking pipe.
3. He likes gasoline prices at 3 dollars compared to 1.83 when he took office.
4. Apparently some deer are incapable of living on one side of the pipe over the other.
5. We haven't lost enough to China yet.
6. He doesn't want the states involved to make the extra revenue.
7. 20k + jobs is just a laughing stock
8. Wants to save a few sand dunes in Nebraska.
9. Says the gop gave him too short a deadline despite this being in the works and studied for years.
10. God I really despise Obama.

Ps. We have 10's of thousands of miles of pipelines currently in use in this country without major incident. There really is NO EXCUSE for this kind of ineptness.

http://www.theodora.com/pipelines/united_states_pipelines_map.jpg

So let me get this pipeline shit straight

Highly commendable!

I would also like to see you get ANYTHING straight.

Think baby steps.

Good luck!