So, how many leftists will admit socialism failed Venezuela?

[Wyatt earp]

Socialism has not failed Germany and most of the planet.

What protects them?


.

Protects them? Do me a favor look at the military budget of Russia and that of the EU. I think that disparity alone should show you the EU will be fine. I also will point out that the US military spending hovers around 4 percent of GDP while Healthcare cost is around 17 percent of GDP. Even if all countries that have social Democracy would spend a similar amount on defense. They still would spend less than you do on your for profit Healthcare system. What does that tell you about relative cost you think?

They don't have the military ships to protect their interest, see the recent mining by Iran on tankers. Only one country does.


.

France couldn't even take on Syria when Obama said the US wouldn't join them a few years back, so No they don't.


.

England had to rent Awacs from us during lybia to protect their ships, the US launched over a 100 tomahawks, England could only afford to launch like 3 tomahawks..


So again the answer is No they don't.


.

 

[Mac1958]

For today's GOP, we're either the Old West or Venezuela.

They've been conditioned on this kind of binary thinking for 25+ years now.

 

[Norman]

For today's GOP, we're either the Old West or Venezuela.

They've been conditioned on this kind of binary thinking for 25+ years now.

Mac yesterday: "There is no existential threat to American values, you are delusional."

Mac today: "It wasn't real socialism."

 

[Mac1958]

For today's GOP, we're either the Old West or Venezuela.
They've been conditioned on this kind of binary thinking for 25+ years now.

Mac yesterday: "There is no existential threat to America, you are delusional."
Mac today: "It wasn't real socialism."

I didn't say either. Not even close.

Maybe try again, and maybe be honest this time.
.

 

[forkup]

Socialism has not failed Germany and most of the planet.

What protects them?


.

Protects them? Do me a favor look at the military budget of Russia and that of the EU. I think that disparity alone should show you the EU will be fine. I also will point out that the US military spending hovers around 4 percent of GDP while Healthcare cost is around 17 percent of GDP. Even if all countries that have social Democracy would spend a similar amount on defense. They still would spend less than you do on your for profit Healthcare system. What does that tell you about relative cost you think?

They don't have the military ships to protect their interest, see the recent mining by Iran on tankers. Only one country does.


.

Tell me exactly how that attack was prevented by the US. It's also bullshit BTW. France and Britain have aircraft carriers, modern destroyers and the like. Both of those navies are immeasurably larger and better equipped than the Iranians. It also completely blows past the point. Why is it that socialized Healthcare as practiced in most Western Nations is invariably cheaper than the for profit system in the US?

 

[Wyatt earp]

For today's GOP, we're either the Old West or Venezuela.

They've been conditioned on this kind of binary thinking for 25+ years now.

Definition of Insanity: try the same thing expecting different results.



Occupy Plymouth Colony: How A Failed Commune Led To Thanksgiving




It’s wrong to say that American was founded by capitalists. In fact, America was founded by socialists who had the humility to learn from their initial mistakes and embrace freedom.

 

[Norman]

For today's GOP, we're either the Old West or Venezuela.
They've been conditioned on this kind of binary thinking for 25+ years now.

Mac yesterday: "There is no existential threat to America, you are delusional."
Mac today: "It wasn't real socialism."

I didn't say either. Not even close.

Maybe try again, and maybe be honest this time.
.

Effectively, you said the same thing. Defending socialism, while claiming that there isn't a substantial amount of people who support the destruction of American values.

 

[Mac1958]

For today's GOP, we're either the Old West or Venezuela.
They've been conditioned on this kind of binary thinking for 25+ years now.

Mac yesterday: "There is no existential threat to America, you are delusional."
Mac today: "It wasn't real socialism."

I didn't say either. Not even close.

Maybe try again, and maybe be honest this time.
.

Effectively, you said the same thing. Defending socialism, while claiming that there isn't a substantial amount of people who support the destruction of American values.

Um, didn't do either.

I don't even know what your definition of "socialism" is. And perhaps you can show me where I said "there isn't a substantial amount of people who support the destruction of American values." I don't remember having such a conversation.

I'm not good at this alternate universe stuff, where anything can be taken mean anything and positions can just be fabricated out of thin air to make a "point". Maybe you could just comment on what I actually SAY.
.

 

[Norman]

For today's GOP, we're either the Old West or Venezuela.
They've been conditioned on this kind of binary thinking for 25+ years now.

Mac yesterday: "There is no existential threat to America, you are delusional."
Mac today: "It wasn't real socialism."

I didn't say either. Not even close.

Maybe try again, and maybe be honest this time.
.

Effectively, you said the same thing. Defending socialism, while claiming that there isn't a substantial amount of people who support the destruction of American values.

Um, didn't do either.

I don't even know what your definition of "socialism" is. And perhaps you can show me where I said "there isn't a substantial amount of people who support the destruction of American values." I don't remember having such a conversation.

I'm not good at this alternate universe stuff, where anything can be taken mean anything and positions can just be fabricated out of thin air to make a "point". Maybe you could just comment on what I actually SAY.
.

The definition of socialism is irrelevant. Scandinavian style socialism is still completely anti-American.

Yesterday you were claiming I was delusional for stating that there are a bunch of people with anti-American values in this country.

 

[Mac1958]

For today's GOP, we're either the Old West or Venezuela.
They've been conditioned on this kind of binary thinking for 25+ years now.

Mac yesterday: "There is no existential threat to America, you are delusional."
Mac today: "It wasn't real socialism."

I didn't say either. Not even close.

Maybe try again, and maybe be honest this time.
.

Effectively, you said the same thing. Defending socialism, while claiming that there isn't a substantial amount of people who support the destruction of American values.

Um, didn't do either.

I don't even know what your definition of "socialism" is. And perhaps you can show me where I said "there isn't a substantial amount of people who support the destruction of American values." I don't remember having such a conversation.

I'm not good at this alternate universe stuff, where anything can be taken mean anything and positions can just be fabricated out of thin air to make a "point". Maybe you could just comment on what I actually SAY.
.

The definition of socialism is irrelevant. Scandinavian style socialism is still completely anti-American.

Yesterday you were claiming I was delusional for stating that there are a bunch of people with anti-American values in this country.

"The definition of socialism is irrelevant"????? Huh??? Then what's the point of using the word at all?????

And please show me where I said you are "delusional for stating that there are a bunch of people with anti-American values in this country."

It was just yesterday. I'm sure it won't be tough to find.
.

 

[Norman]

Mac yesterday: "There is no existential threat to America, you are delusional."
Mac today: "It wasn't real socialism."

I didn't say either. Not even close.

Maybe try again, and maybe be honest this time.
.

Effectively, you said the same thing. Defending socialism, while claiming that there isn't a substantial amount of people who support the destruction of American values.

Um, didn't do either.

I don't even know what your definition of "socialism" is. And perhaps you can show me where I said "there isn't a substantial amount of people who support the destruction of American values." I don't remember having such a conversation.

I'm not good at this alternate universe stuff, where anything can be taken mean anything and positions can just be fabricated out of thin air to make a "point". Maybe you could just comment on what I actually SAY.
.

The definition of socialism is irrelevant. Scandinavian style socialism is still completely anti-American.

Yesterday you were claiming I was delusional for stating that there are a bunch of people with anti-American values in this country.

"The definition of socialism is irrelevant"????? Huh??? Then what's the point of using the word at all?????

And please show me where I said you are "delusional for stating that there are a bunch of people with anti-American values in this country."

It was just yesterday. I'm sure it won't be tough to find.
.

Don't pretend to be stupid. The distinction on whether you use the word to mean the "Venezuelan style socialism where government owns the means of production" (which still doesn't exist in Venezuela), or "Scandinavian style socialism" is irrelevant.

I will see if I can find the post.

 

[Mac1958]

I didn't say either. Not even close.

Maybe try again, and maybe be honest this time.
.

Effectively, you said the same thing. Defending socialism, while claiming that there isn't a substantial amount of people who support the destruction of American values.

Um, didn't do either.

I don't even know what your definition of "socialism" is. And perhaps you can show me where I said "there isn't a substantial amount of people who support the destruction of American values." I don't remember having such a conversation.

I'm not good at this alternate universe stuff, where anything can be taken mean anything and positions can just be fabricated out of thin air to make a "point". Maybe you could just comment on what I actually SAY.
.

The definition of socialism is irrelevant. Scandinavian style socialism is still completely anti-American.

Yesterday you were claiming I was delusional for stating that there are a bunch of people with anti-American values in this country.

"The definition of socialism is irrelevant"????? Huh??? Then what's the point of using the word at all?????

And please show me where I said you are "delusional for stating that there are a bunch of people with anti-American values in this country."

It was just yesterday. I'm sure it won't be tough to find.
.

Don't pretend to be stupid. The distinction on whether you use the word to mean the "Venezuelan style socialism where government owns the means of production" (which still doesn't exist in Venezuela), or "Scandinavian style socialism" is irrelevant.

I will see if I can find the post.

If you really don't see a distinction between Venezuela and Scandinavia, I guess there is not much I can say.

You are, however, confirming the point I made in Post 100:

I don't know if they see a distinction between Venezuela/Cuba and Germany/Finland.

I'm not kidding. To them it's just all one big socialist commie thing.

 

[Norman]

Effectively, you said the same thing. Defending socialism, while claiming that there isn't a substantial amount of people who support the destruction of American values.

Um, didn't do either.

I don't even know what your definition of "socialism" is. And perhaps you can show me where I said "there isn't a substantial amount of people who support the destruction of American values." I don't remember having such a conversation.

I'm not good at this alternate universe stuff, where anything can be taken mean anything and positions can just be fabricated out of thin air to make a "point". Maybe you could just comment on what I actually SAY.
.

The definition of socialism is irrelevant. Scandinavian style socialism is still completely anti-American.

Yesterday you were claiming I was delusional for stating that there are a bunch of people with anti-American values in this country.

"The definition of socialism is irrelevant"????? Huh??? Then what's the point of using the word at all?????

And please show me where I said you are "delusional for stating that there are a bunch of people with anti-American values in this country."

It was just yesterday. I'm sure it won't be tough to find.
.

Don't pretend to be stupid. The distinction on whether you use the word to mean the "Venezuelan style socialism where government owns the means of production" (which still doesn't exist in Venezuela), or "Scandinavian style socialism" is irrelevant.

I will see if I can find the post.

If you really don't see a distinction between Venezuela and Scandinavia, I guess there is not much I can say.

You are, however, confirming the point I made in Post 100:

I don't know if they see a distinction between Venezuela/Cuba and Germany/Finland.

I'm not kidding. To them it's just all one big socialist commie thing.

What in the fuck? I never said there wasn't a distinction, for one, a socialist party is not in power in a Scandinavian country.

I said, BOTH OF THEM ARE ANTI-AMERICAN. From that perspective it doesn't matter, of course Scandinavia is infinitely better off than Venezuela.

 

[noonereal]

Do you think the che guevera worshipers are able to admit that?

Hey, dolt, for your edification, it was a "strong man" leader who ignored law that caused the country such grief.

BTW, you are a freakin idiot.

So you admit calipornia used "strong man" tactics when the electorate said no to gay marriage yet they implemented it anyway?
Do you not see where this leads?

You are an idiot.

 

[Theowl32]

Do you think the che guevera worshipers are able to admit that?

Hey, dolt, for your edification, it was a "strong man" leader who ignored law that caused the country such grief.

BTW, you are a freakin idiot.

So you admit calipornia used "strong man" tactics when the electorate said no to gay marriage yet they implemented it anyway?
Do you not see where this leads?

You are an idiot.

Thats all you got you fuck? That is what I thought. The fact that you pathetic dipshits, predictably claim the Nordic countries when I never asked about them is pathetic.

When did a dictator or totalitarian leader take over under a free market style of rule you fucking idiot?

I already anticipate you pieces of shit bringing up hitler, cause you are that fucking dumb, and that fucking predictable. I always love how you stupid fucking morons ignore that National Socialist German Workers' Party. You dumb fucking loser.

Just the fact that you pieces of shit bring up the Nordic countries when I bring up Venezuela....

Hey, fuckface. Tell all of us how sean penn or oliver stone and the rest of you losers worshiping hugo chavez. You dumb fucking loser.

I know a fucking loser won't listen to this, but this for the rest of the losers that might. You dumb fuck.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Actually corruption ruined Ven.
When will Cons admit that Venezuela “socialism “ has nothing to do with the democratic socialist ideas we have in America.

Yes... and where does corruption come from?
Power.
The level of corruption an organization has can be measured by the level of power it also has.
And what form of government gives all the power to an extremely few individuals?
Socialist.

 

[AntonToo]

They are unable. That simple. They are fucking losers.

Their 5 foot 4 inch hero stalin, what a loser.

Idiot, lefties are mixed market capitalists, not socialists. (No matter what they call themselves).

I’ve yet to hear anyone on the left say - all means of production should be publicly owned (definition of classic socialism). I’ve yet to hear any say that private markets don’t have a role in a healthy economy.

But even aside from all that - when was the last time you admitted Capitalism does not work when some open market third word shithole craters?

 

[rightwinger]

It is simple economics

What in a capitalist based economic model would have prevented an economic meltdown in Venezuela

What would capitalists have done when faced with millions of starving people ?

Dumbass what model created the million starving people? It sure wasn't capitalism.

Cripes you're stupid

Venezuela’s economy was based entirely on oil. While oil boomed their economy boomed, when it collapsed the economy failed

What would capitalists have done differently when the oil economy collapsed?
How would capitalists have helped the resulting millions of starving people?

 

[rightwinger]

Do you think the che guevera worshipers are able to admit that?

Valenzuela is NOT a socialist country. It was for a short period of time. But it quickly moved to a Dictatorship. Socialism is not a Government. It's an economic method. And MOST successful countries have part of their economic methods from Socialism as well as Capitalism. You can cut this crap out any time now.

If you leave out Capitalism and just have socialism for your economic method, a Strong Man will emerge and it will become a Dictatorship or an Oliarchy. The same goes if you leave out socialism and only have Capitalism as your only economic method. Sooner, rather than later, a Strongman will take over or an Oliarchy. Oh, they all will claim to be a lot of things but they are NOT democratic or a republic in any way. Having one without the other you only get a few choices. You can have a Mussolini (Hitler) or a Stalin. Not a whole lot of difference in the end.

Valenzuela ended up with a Stalin.

The people VOTED for Valenzuela's "Stain". Why? B/C he promised all of them 'free shit'.
He couldn't deliver all the free shit. The fucking filthy rich wouldn't pony up the money for the free shit. Result: you can't buy a roll of ass-wipe now for less than $200 US.
I don't blame the poor. Just like in the US when a fucking DEM shows up and promises the poor free shit who are the poor going to vote for?
The Dems are the party of free shit.

Or when a Capitalist promises everyone a good paying jobs. The proceeds to ship the jobs overseas or opens the new factory with full automation. Hungry people listen to all sorts of promises.

So how do you explain Trumps record employment numbers?

Riding the Obama economic wave

 

[rightwinger]

Capitalist or Socialist, Venezuela suffered from inept and corrupt government.

There is nothing about Capitalism that discourages either

An inept and corrupt government that was ran by socialist.

Very true, the government was corrupt and inept
What makes you think a capitalist based government would not be corrupt and inept?