So How Are Things Going In Iraq?

[Annie]

Good and Bad:

http://michaelyon-online.com/wp/general-barry-r-mccaffrey-report.htm

General Barry R McCaffrey Report

Adjunct Professor of International Affairs

December 18, 2007

MEMORANDUM FOR: Colonel Michael Meese

Professor and Head Dept of Social Sciences United States Military Academy

CC: Colonel Cindy Jebb

Professor and Deputy Head Dept of Social Sciences United States Military Academy

SUBJECT: After Action Report—General Barry R McCaffrey USA (Ret)

VISIT IRAQ AND KUWAIT 5-11 DECEMBER 2007

1. PURPOSE:

This memo provides feedback on my strategic and operational assessment of current security operations in Iraq. Look forward to providing lectures to faculty and cadet national security seminars.

Will provide follow-on comprehensive report with attachments of current unclassified data and graphs documenting the current counter-insurgency situation in Iraq...

 

[Psychoblues]

I bet you look swell in your BDU's, kitty. But I can't help it if you're lonely.

 

[p kirkes]

In one year - refugee's returning causing new pressures on a slow central governmenmt.

after the 08 elections - beginning a pull back of combat units to incountry bases and gradual draw down of combat units.

In three years - collapse of central government and fracturing of country into three parts: Kurd's in the north, Sunnie's in the west and Shia everywhere else.

In fours years - new Ayatollah Al Sadr assassinates rivals, consolidates power and tell's US and Allies to leave, signs mutual security pact with Iran.

Time line subjest to change at a moments notice.

 

[Gunny]

In one year - refugee's returning causing new pressures on a slow central governmenmt.

after the 08 elections - beginning a pull back of combat units to incountry bases and gradual draw down of combat units.

In three years - collapse of central government and fracturing of country into three parts: Kurd's in the north, Sunnie's in the west and Shia everywhere else.

In fours years - new Ayatollah Al Sadr assassinates rivals, consolidates power and tell's US and Allies to leave, signs mutual security pact with Iran.

Time line subjest to change at a moments notice.

You honestly believe that if a Democrat is elected President they are going to pull out of Iraq? Naivete at its finest.

None of your speculation amounts to squat. If, when we actually do leave; which, won't bein within 4 years, it will be up to the Iraqi gov't and the Iraqi people to sustain themselves and we will have done more them than they have earned.

 

[p kirkes]

You honestly believe that if a Democrat is elected President they are going to pull out of Iraq? Naivete at its finest.

None of your speculation amounts to squat. If, when we actually do leave; which, won't bein within 4 years, it will be up to the Iraqi gov't and the Iraqi people to sustain themselves and we will have done more them than they have earned.

Me, and thousands of others, voted on 06 to end this war. That message was loud and clear from the voters. The newly elected majority obfuscated and couldn't find the internal fortitude to stop the funding.

I, and thousands of others, will try again in 08. I really hope it's not naivete.
I don't care much for the democrats but the republicans will continure this war till hell freezes over if they regain control of congress and the Presidency.
Since I'm an independent, so registered, it's the lesser of two evils.

Oh I know speculation is akin to prophecy, only good if it comes true. But I don't think, based on past performance of the Iraqi's that they know how to sustain themselves. Which is understandable given the previous forms of government there. First a monarchy then a dictator. I'm also aware that many of their intelligencia has been blown to bits. Takes a generation or more to recover from that. They will dance to the tune of the first strong man to claim victory. Look at the latest reports coming out of Russia and how Putin is entrenching himself within the executive branch of their government. People want stability, food, housing, jobs and sense of national pride before democracy.

It will be mid 09 before we see any initiatives for change at the earliest.

 

[Psychoblues]

And just what have they earned, gunny, and how did they earn it?

You honestly believe that if a Democrat is elected President they are going to pull out of Iraq? Naivete at its finest.

None of your speculation amounts to squat. If, when we actually do leave; which, won't bein within 4 years, it will be up to the Iraqi gov't and the Iraqi people to sustain themselves and we will have done more them than they have earned.

Considering that many thousands of them have been killed due to foreign intervention, how are the lasting families supposed to show their contriteness and re-earn their citizenship?

You are such a fucking idiot.

 

[eots]

And just what have they earned, gunny, and how did they earn it?

I believe they made the mistake of not worshiping the stars and stripes being off -White and non-Christan and talking and dressing funny..that kind of earns them a second class sub-humane status..you know like the children of Africa

 

[Warner]

Good and Bad:

http://michaelyon-online.com/wp/general-barry-r-mccaffrey-report.htm

It's a show now Kat.

All that is really happening is the USA is aligning itself with the Sunni's for the upcoming all out civil war. As we have done so there has been a measure of decrease in violence against American forces. The surge has had little to do with this.

 

[Annie]

It's a show now Kat.

All that is really happening is the USA is aligning itself with the Sunni's for the upcoming all out civil war. As we have done so there has been a measure of decrease in violence against American forces. The surge has had little to do with this.

Time will tell, but right now that's not what is being reported, by the MSM, previous critics of the war, including McCaffney, Reid, many Democratic Senators, etc.

 

[Psychoblues]

Are you just now considering that warmongering is the game of the devil?

Time will tell, but right now that's not what is being reported, by the MSM, previous critics of the war, including McCaffney, Reid, many Democratic Senators, etc.

You have certainly done your part to promote the evil that exists in hatred.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

What a mess we have made of things. Instead of fostering peace and stability, our invasion and occupation of Iraq has caused instability and conflict in the Middle East, and acted as a catalyst for terrorists and insurgents that now threaten not just our interests but those of other nations. And now, having failed in Iraq, we would wage war against Iran. Do the world’s powers stand with us? No. Is it our position to police the world? - To what end? Are we not, by pursuing such a policy, making more enemies than friends? (Can we, a nation now so dependent on other nations, afford to do so?) In the final account, are we more safe - more secure?

“Lord, what fools these mortals be!"
-Shakespeare, A Midsummer Night's Dream, Act III, Scene ii, Line 115

Ahh yes the tired old line about how we are just moments away from invading Iran. Provide some evidence this is true. Talk about fear mongering and of making a policy position worthless by fools.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

How does one explain those that, in light of the facts, continue to blindly support President Bush and his failed policies? How much evidence does it take to make the people see the light? Are we safer now that we have overthrown Saddam Hussein? Is the world safer? No. The policies of the Bush administration have created a very dangerous situation in the most volatile region of the world for the last half century. Many say that we are safer now; they point to the fact that we have not been attacked as proof. It is not proof; and if you listen to the pundits and the propagandists, you will be lulled into a very false sense of security.

You have made a claim that we are going to invade Iran, support it. The rest is nothing more than pure partisan political tripe.

 

[doniston]

In one year - refugee's returning causing new pressures on a slow central governmenmt.

after the 08 elections - beginning a pull back of combat units to incountry bases and gradual draw down of combat units.

In three years - collapse of central government and fracturing of country into three parts: Kurd's in the north, Sunnie's in the west and Shia everywhere else.

In fours years - new Ayatollah Al Sadr assassinates rivals, consolidates power and tell's US and Allies to leave, signs mutual security pact with Iran.

Time line subjest to change at a moments notice.

But more or less expected tyo be accurate.

 

[doniston]

In one year - refugee's returning causing new pressures on a slow central governmenmt.

after the 08 elections - beginning a pull back of combat units to incountry bases and gradual draw down of combat units.

In three years - collapse of central government and fracturing of country into three parts: Kurd's in the north, Sunnie's in the west and Shia everywhere else.

In fours years - new Ayatollah Al Sadr assassinates rivals, consolidates power and tell's US and Allies to leave, signs mutual security pact with Iran.

Time line subjest to change at a moments notice.

But more or less expectedly accurate.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

One of the four real secrets is the contingency plans for theater-level military operations; and not working for the Pentagon, I am not privy to them. However, it does not take a spy to know that there has been a dramatic buildup of our naval forces in the Persian Gulf; which, in light of our previous actions in Iraq combined with all the “sabre-rattling” for the same reasons about Iran, makes our intentions rather obvious. It takes some sense to see the handwriting on the wall; it doesn’t take more than common sense to make sense of it.

In other words no proof is proof. Got ya. I suppose This will be in conjunction with Bush's plan to seize the US by Coup, when his secret police round up all opposition politicians and the Congress is killed in a suicide bomber sent by the Bildburgers at a Joint session of Congress?

 

[midcan5]

Iraq is not Italy Germany or Japan, they have never had a stable, unified society so all bets are off as to the next steps. An iron cleric may be the only answer. Curiously Iran after the Shah seems to have created a stable, religious oligarchy. P kirkes' projections may be more correct than other scenarios. These countries because they lack the basic foundations of a pluralistic liberal democratic way of settling disputes and controlling power will take many years to change. They need an empowered middle class.

 

[Gunny]

Me, and thousands of others, voted on 06 to end this war. That message was loud and clear from the voters. The newly elected majority obfuscated and couldn't find the internal fortitude to stop the funding.

I, and thousands of others, will try again in 08. I really hope it's not naivete.
I don't care much for the democrats but the republicans will continure this war till hell freezes over if they regain control of congress and the Presidency.
Since I'm an independent, so registered, it's the lesser of two evils.

Oh I know speculation is akin to prophecy, only good if it comes true. But I don't think, based on past performance of the Iraqi's that they know how to sustain themselves. Which is understandable given the previous forms of government there. First a monarchy then a dictator. I'm also aware that many of their intelligencia has been blown to bits. Takes a generation or more to recover from that. They will dance to the tune of the first strong man to claim victory. Look at the latest reports coming out of Russia and how Putin is entrenching himself within the executive branch of their government. People want stability, food, housing, jobs and sense of national pride before democracy.

It will be mid 09 before we see any initiatives for change at the earliest.

No you didn't. Stop deluding yourself. Conservatives NOT voting to perpetuate the ineffective people WE put in Congress does not equate to YOU doing a damned thing. The Democrats in Congress now fell in through the back door by default. Hardly a mandate.

You and your cast of thousands can "try" all you want in 08, but your best bet is hope the GOP remians fragmented as it is and you pull down another Clinton/06-type win. Only way it's going to happen.

Yeah, it's the lesser of two evils. I only question YOUR definition of "evil."

 

[Gunny]

How does one explain those that, in light of the facts, continue to blindly support President Bush and his failed policies? How much evidence does it take to make the people see the light? Are we safer now that we have overthrown Saddam Hussein? Is the world safer? No. The policies of the Bush administration have created a very dangerous situation in the most volatile region of the world for the last half century. Many say that we are safer now; they point to the fact that we have not been attacked as proof. It is not proof; and if you listen to the pundits and the propagandists, you will be lulled into a very false sense of security.

Right. Bush's policies created the situation the Middle East. GMAFB. The Middle East has been a powderkeg for centuries. At best, you can blame destabilizing Iraq on Bush. The rest is crap.

Based on YOUR post, I'd say YOU are one of those "pundits and propagandists."

 

[Gunny]

One of the four real secrets is the contingency plans for theater-level military operations; and not working for the Pentagon, I am not privy to them. However, it does not take a spy to know that there has been a dramatic buildup of our naval forces in the Persian Gulf; which, in light of our previous actions in Iraq combined with all the “sabre-rattling” for the same reasons about Iran, makes our intentions rather obvious. It takes some sense to see the handwriting on the wall; it doesn’t take more than common sense to make sense of it.

A show of force does NOT automatically result in use of force. Matter of fact, the US's track record shows just the opposite. We've had strong Naval presence in the Gulf since 1990. Nothing new here.

 

[JimH52]

I don't know if anyone has posted this but here goes!

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/12/02/MNOJTM0R2.DTL