CDZ Sincere Question

[sartre play]

We have stooped so low, cant see how we can get some level of honesty back .We should try, for all our faults still love America its our home.

 

[Gdjjr]

It's pretty obvious this Country is on a downhill slide on a very slippery slope. If you don't believe that then there's no point in your posting anything..

Define downhill?

If you are going to start a thread in the CDZ you need more support than "if you don't agree with me don't bother to post".

Define what you mean by downhill and then we can discuss.

Downhill is all around you- there is no conversation that isn't politically attacked, there is no person safe from being at least verbally attacked- our fiat money system is not sustainable- our Empire will collapse just as all Empires have- it's not if, but when- BTW, I'll start a thread any way "I" choose- if you don't like it- tough shit.
Slippery slopes are slippery slopes. When people demand godvernement be on their side if they don't realize they are only tools or enemies for politicians that is a slippery slope. When people don't understand rights are inherent and Liberty is essential to those Rights, that is a slippery slope- when politicians believe themselves omnipotent that is a slippery slope- when people refuse to acknowledge the wisdom of the founders that is a slippery slope- when FORCE has to be used to implement that is a slippery slope- when the collective is disrespectful of the Individual that is a slippery slope- when kids are brain washed in godvernment approved curriculum that is a slippery slope- a slope, when standing at the top has only one way off- downhill- when at the bottom it is difficult at best to gain the top-

 

[Gdjjr]

The sky is not falling just yet

Yet being key- it is inevitable, it can't be avoided, only minimized- so how would you help minimize it? Snarky comments?

 

[Gdjjr]

I would add making elected official suffer the same punishments as the rest of us .

How would you go about that?

 

[Gdjjr]

We have stooped so low, cant see how we can get some level of honesty back .We should try, for all our faults still love America its our home.

I LOVE the concept of America I despise what it has become- but, what do you propose that will minimize the inevitable?

Disclaimer/ Full disclosure: Simple is not spelled easy- nothing worth having comes instantly- tearing down something takes less time than building or rebuilding- so, do we build or rebuild?

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

The sky is not falling just yet

Yet being key- it is inevitable, it can't be avoided, only minimized- so how would you help minimize it? Snarky comments?

I don't think that change and catastrophe are synonymous.

 

[ReinyDays]

I would add making elected official suffer the same punishments as the rest of us .

How would you go about that?

It's a thing we do here in the United States called a "criminal trial" ... obviously you have no personal experience with this ... but it's something we do to people who break the law ... don't bother, it's not fun, just erase it from your bucket list ...

 

[Syriusly]

It's pretty obvious this Country is on a downhill slide on a very slippery slope. If you don't believe that then there's no point in your posting anything..

Define downhill?

If you are going to start a thread in the CDZ you need more support than "if you don't agree with me don't bother to post".

Define what you mean by downhill and then we can discuss.

Downhill is all around you- there is no conversation that isn't politically attacked, there is no person safe from being at least verbally attacked- our fiat money system is not sustainable- our Empire will collapse just as all Empires have- it's not if, but when- BTW, I'll start a thread any way "I" choose- if you don't like it- tough shit.
Slippery slopes are slippery slopes. When people demand godvernement be on their side if they don't realize they are only tools or enemies for politicians that is a slippery slope. When people don't understand rights are inherent and Liberty is essential to those Rights, that is a slippery slope- when politicians believe themselves omnipotent that is a slippery slope- when people refuse to acknowledge the wisdom of the founders that is a slippery slope- when FORCE has to be used to implement that is a slippery slope- when the collective is disrespectful of the Individual that is a slippery slope- when kids are brain washed in godvernment approved curriculum that is a slippery slope- a slope, when standing at the top has only one way off- downhill- when at the bottom it is difficult at best to gain the top-

So to narrow down the word salad- your key points seem to be:
a) Conversations are politically attacked

I don't know what your world is like. I can spend entire days working with hundreds of people without any politics coming up. We just have normal conversations. So your world is very much not like mine.

b) Fiat money system is not sustainable

Says who? Based upon what? We have a very robust economy at the moment, sure the bull market and growth won't continue forever- there will be another cycle- but there is no economic indication that our fiat money system is in any danger.

c) Our empire will collapse

Not even sure what you think our 'empire' is. We might lose Guam?

 

[Syriusly]

TERM LIMITS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM!!!!!!

De-emphasis mine

I would add making elected official suffer the same punishments as the rest of us ... too many are allow to just resign rather than going to jail ...

I agree- and would go further and say that making wealthy people suffer the same punishments as the rest of us. Too many of the wealthy manage to skate using tactics the rest of us would not be able to get away with.

 

[Olde Europe]

I believe that we are in a time of transition--and that a lot of people..especially older folks...are ignoring the positive just a bit.
Yes, the right has lost the cultural battles of last century..but that's not a bad thing..IMO.

Interesting.

Are we to assume that "the right" know they lost? Have they given up? For to me it would appear, they have not. Much rather, to stay with your chosen central element of recent history, they are fighting like hell, and that's a large part of the malaise we are currently made to behold. The battlefields range from immigration to female equality and then right on to gun rights, marriage equality and the right to choose, and not to forget the strident opposition to Those people having the right to vote. It would appear to me that, while most of the country may be moving on, these rearguard battles are consuming most of the nation's attention, and they are driving most of the divisions.

In fact, I am convinced these rearguard battles since at least Roe v. Wade was handed down (if not the Voting Rights Act of 1965) were carefully crafted and instrumentalized by the right, and they almost inexorably led up to the purposefully created national accident that is Trump. That's just to denote the current low point of the decline the OP bemoans.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

I believe that we are in a time of transition--and that a lot of people..especially older folks...are ignoring the positive just a bit.
Yes, the right has lost the cultural battles of last century..but that's not a bad thing..IMO.

Interesting.

Are we to assume that "the right" know they lost? Have they given up? For to me it would appear, they have not. Much rather, to stay with your chosen central element of recent history, they are fighting like hell, and that's a large part of the malaise we are currently made to behold. The battlefields range from immigration to female equality and then right on to gun rights, marriage equality and the right to choose, and not to forget the strident opposition to Those people having the right to vote. It would appear to me that, while most of the country may be moving on, these rearguard battles are consuming most of the nation's attention, and they are driving most of the divisions.

In fact, I am convinced these rearguard battles since at least Roe v. Wade was handed down (if not the Voting Rights Act of 1965) were carefully crafted and instrumentalized by the right, and they almost inexorably led up to the purposefully created national accident that is Trump. That's just to denote the current low point of the decline the OP bemoans.

I think some of the Right know..and the rest sense..the loss. Which is not to say that there are not things to the right of the center that are positive...and it is also not to say the the radical Progressive movement is not just as divisive..and as destructive..as the right is. But the demographic...cultural and societal HAS shifted away from the hot button issues of the past century..and the Far Right lost the majority of those issues. It is that knowledge of loss that fuels the intensity of the current culture war. Many, if not most of the RW are older..so they have that sense that time is running out on their causes. Pro-choice is still the law of the land....gay marriage is legal...gay men and women serve with honor and pride in our military..as do women.

"Crafted"? I dunno...I think Trump created Trump...he saw the conditions were ripe...and he pounced at the perfect moment. That is Trump's genius--his instinct for the jugular...but his fatal flaw is that he had no idea how to govern after the win...and was/is not smart enough to learn.

Not that many didn't try to hitch their star to his wagon..most of whom sorely regret it...LOL!

In the larger sense...sure..to a large degree..for sure I'll credit Karl Rove with saving the Republican party. His Use of gerrymandering to preserve and expand the Republican influence was masterful...and well crafted indeed!

I think you give your opposition a bit too much credit...and you don't credit the randomness of our political process as much as I do. Complex concatenations of coincidence sometimes give the appearance of planning..but are just synchronicity in action.

The battle rages...but the outcome...really isn't in doubt. But all things swing back..and i believe that a new wave of fiscal conservatism is around the corner...and, again, as usual...the entitlements will be first on the block.

 

[Natural Citizen]

It's pretty obvious this Country is on a downhill slide on a very slippery slope. If you don't believe that then there's no point in your posting anything.

Question: What do you think is the best method/way of helping minimize the the inevitable?

The metric I use to assess our situation is simple; when havoc is created, chaos ensues and catastrophe is inevitable. Historians will assign the time line(s) - or maybe your method/way involves addressing a particular time/grievance

Yes, I have an opinion- but, I'd like for people to stop and think about what they believe best path to take and present an implementation.

A lot of times whenever they're getting ready to give it to us nice and good and people start to talk about it, asking questions, saying hey this is a bad deal, the response is ''well, they did it like that last time, I don't see the big deal."

Then everybody's like umkay then.

Not good.


My thought on it is traditional. The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time.

 

[Gdjjr]

The sky is not falling just yet

Yet being key- it is inevitable, it can't be avoided, only minimized- so how would you help minimize it? Snarky comments?

I don't think that change and catastrophe are synonymous.

Who said they were?

 

[HenryBHough]

History shows Democratic (not "Democrat") government lasts no longer than 250 years. We're almost there. If not in 2020 then soon thereafter the left will take control and swiftly become dictatorship. It's just human nature. Takers almost always outnumber makers. There are only brief intervals when the taker element has weakened through its own excesses and makers take the helm. Where the makers do wrong is they coddle the takers and they breed like rabbits on the now available generically "little blue pill" - which apparently is not able to be named in, WHATt, the itn\\nterest of political correctness? (I had the "V" word in there but got scolded) One possible way to minimize their ascendancy is to make drugs, intoxicants of all sorts and, of course, abortions FREE on request. But conservatives won't do that. Fortunately liberal will and do so they are, to a degree, self-limiting. We're near to a tipping point where it might be best for conservatives to hang back and let nature take its course. The issue is that there are few places for conservatives to take shelter. One tragic, that, of "globalism". Perhaps another planet but it's mostly liberals working at developing that sort of tourism.

When rape is inevitable - politically speaking - relax and enjoy it.

 

[Olde Europe]

"Crafted"? I dunno...I think Trump created Trump...he saw the conditions were ripe...and he pounced at the perfect moment.

As so often, I agree in large part, disagree sharply on other items, but the above is, I believe, the main point: What societal and political forces saw to it that the "conditions were ripe" for that accident to happen. And no, I don't believe in coincidences or synchronicity or whatever. There are always societal and political forces identifiable for bringing about, unwittingly or not, intentional or not, a certain political or societal outcome. I hold, the hatred, the vengeful anger, the tsunami of resentments that carried Trump over the finish line, and is carrying him, still, is, in fact, not an accident. No, Trump did not create it, he just fanned it further, and took advantage of it. In sum, I'd say, the GOP is being eaten by Trumpism, and they have no one but themselves to blame for it.

 

[Gdjjr]

Well this is off the OT but since everyone wants to blame somebody vs figuring out what to do- try this on for size.
LibertyView Podcast: Are Trump Supporters Make-Believe Conservatives?

That said, I've said and will continue to say, Trump is just a culmination of all past political hackery- each POTUS is progressively worse than the previous and with many to look back on there is a tremendous amount built up- but, so many attack his personality never mind all the real problems he's exacerbated that were there long before he was elected- that is the political cult of personality. Hillary would have been no better and none of those running will change anything. They will just apply their personality. POTUS is merely a figure head and congress is just a supporting cast.

Which segues into "what can be done" to stop the slippery slope downhill slide?"

 

[Olde Europe]

Well this is off the OT but since everyone wants to blame somebody vs figuring out what to do

To be honest, I don't see you getting into the weeds of specifics about how to change the current trajectory, either.

To put a not too fine point on my argument, I see a resentment-filled, perennially enraged White conservative majority blindly lashing out against whatever and whoever, and throwing their still considerable electoral weight behind Trump exactly because of his vulgarity and resentful language. PC, women, minorities, immigrants, whatever non-white groups he points to, they hate upon. That is the main marker of the current downward trajectory. It is extensible, as the thieving Chinese, the mooching Europeans, the immigrant-sending Central and South Americans, not to mention Muslims, can just as easily be made into scapegoats for what is, essentially, a White majority soon reduced to plurality status, and an empire in decline, to be superseded by the up and coming Chinese. So, those who understood themselves to be the rulers of both society at home and the world at large are facing a dethroning, which many seem to interpret, vaguely, as some sort of personal status loss. The reaction to that is somewhat understandable anger, particularly if coupled with, mostly among White working men, a severe decline in prospects and purchasing power, in conjunction with even worse prospects for their kids.

That, I am convinced, is the situation we're facing. There is next to nothing that can be done about the rise of the Chinese, there is next to be done about demographic changes, the only aspect that might be changed is a restoration of workers' bargaining power so as to increase their size of the economic pie, and guess who is most strenuously opposed to that...

 

[initforme]

Encourage alot less pregnancies. Tax breaks for not having kids. Less abortions more higher paying jobs

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

"Crafted"? I dunno...I think Trump created Trump...he saw the conditions were ripe...and he pounced at the perfect moment.

As so often, I agree in large part, disagree sharply on other items, but the above is, I believe, the main point: What societal and political forces saw to it that the "conditions were ripe" for that accident to happen. And no, I don't believe in coincidences or synchronicity or whatever. There are always societal and political forces identifiable for bringing about, unwittingly or not, intentional or not, a certain political or societal outcome. I hold, the hatred, the vengeful anger, the tsunami of resentments that carried Trump over the finish line, and is carrying him, still, is, in fact, not an accident. No, Trump did not create it, he just fanned it further, and took advantage of it. In sum, I'd say, the GOP is being eaten by Trumpism, and they have no one but themselves to blame for it.

Trumpism, eh? Well, in its current iteration, I suppose. But the far right has always sang the same song...from Goldwater to Trump. This is the first time they've won...this big...since the 1950's. The same thing happened to the Democrats and the Far Left of the 1960's--to some degree that is what is ailing the Democrats..they too, have their issues with extremists. If either side actually ran someone who didn't have to become a caricature to win a primary---they'd get my vote...LOL.

But to the topic...my sincere answer, i guess...life is good....sorry for his luck.

 

[sparky]

Define downhill?

decline of the mid class

We have stooped so low, cant see how we can get some level of honesty back .We should try, for all our faults still love America its our home.

I LOVE the concept of America I despise what it has become- but, what do you propose that will minimize the inevitable?

One can point the flaws here out, doesn't mean one 'loves country' less.....in fact more....

b) Fiat money system is not sustainable

Says who? Based upon what?

history, look it up Syri

There are always societal and political forces identifiable for bringing about, unwittingly or not, intentional or not, a certain political or societal outcome. I hold, the hatred, the vengeful anger, the tsunami of resentments that carried Trump over the finish line, and is carrying him, still, is, in fact, not an accident. No, Trump did not create it, he just fanned it further, and took advantage of it.

Nothing motivates a populace ,especially the 'bumper sticker' mentality sorts sold by the hatred handed down to them. These folks re partisan tools who 'hate' according to their puppet masters

~S~