Since 2009, 88 Percent Of Income Growth Went To Corporate Profits, 1% Went to Wages

Here you go. This is a link to one of the most popular financial sites on the net, it's run by a guy called Barry Ritholtz. Barry is a quantative analyst and owns an investment firm that looks after a couple of billion dollars. He's a regular face on CNBC and Bloomberg. Barry was one of the first guys warning that the deregulation of the housing industry was leading to the kind of meltdown we got in 2008. This is just one link but if you read through his archives you'll find endless more links in real time that go into endless detail about the whole thing. You could also go through the archives of quite a few business pundits, people like Kudlow for instance, who were huge cheerleaders of the whole mortgage deregulation thing at the time it happened and predicted fantastic profits, urging investors that Countrywide and Ameriquest stock was a great investment. Anyway, here's Barry :

I am working on something for The Economist -- its an Oxford style debate on the current crisis. The proposition being discussed is: "This house believes that it would be a mistake to regulate the financial system heavily after the crisis."

Any comments you may have on this would be appreciated -- my final version is due later today.

My biggest problem is trying to cover a lot of ground in just 500 words . . .

DRAFT:

Over the past 30 years, the United States has moved from an environment of excessive regulation to excessive deregulation. This philosophical shift was taken to irrational extremes, and it is the heart of the current financial crisis.

A brief history: Post War World II, the global economy expanded dramatically. By the late 1960s, the U.S. had an expansive bureaucracy. Regulatory oversight had become time-consuming, complex, and expensive. Eliminating this excess regulation started with President Jimmy Carter, and dramatically accelerated under Ronald Reagan. Originally, only the most expensive and onerous provisions were targeted. But eventually, deregulation became a religion, and effective and necessary safeguards were removed along with the costly ones.

Free-market deregulation became a misguided rallying cry of conservative ideologues. The U.S. moved from a state of excess regulation to radical de-regulation.

In 1999, the Glass-Steagall Act was repealed, allowing insurers, banks and brokerage firms to merge. In 2000, Derivatives were exempted from all regulatory, supervisory or reserve requirements by the Commodity Futures Modernization Act.

During the early 2000s, the Federal Reserve, under Alan Greenspan Fed elected against supervising new mortgage lending firms. This act of nonfeasance, based upon Mr. Greenspan’s free market philosophy, had enormous repercussions.

final act of deregulatory zeal were the net capitalizations exemptions granted by the SEC to five firms. This exemption allowed firms to exceed rules limiting debt-to-net capital ratio to a modest 12-to-1 ratio. After the 2004 exemption, firms levered up as much as 40 to 1. Not surprising, the five brokers that received this exemption – Goldman Sachs, Merrill, Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns, and Morgan Stanley – are no longer in existence; they either failed, merged, or changed into depository banks.

~~~

To show the impact of deregulation, consider the underlying premise of all credit transactions – loans, mortgages, and all debt instruments. Over the entire history of human finance, the borrower's ability to repay the loan has been the paramount factor in all lending. With mortgage, this included elements such as employment history, income, down payment, credit rating, other assets, loan-to-value ratio of the property, debt servicing ability, etc.

Greenspan’s decision to not supervise mortgage lenders led to a brand new lending standard. During a five year period (2002-07), the basis for making mortgages was NOT the borrowers ability to pay – rather, it was the lender's ability to sell a mortgage to firms that securitized them.

This represented an enormous change from the past.

These new unregulated mortgage brokers no longer cared about a standard 30 year mortgage being repaid over time. In the new world of repackaged loans, all that mattered was that the loan did not come back to the originator. By contract, this was typically 90 or 180 days. As long as the borrower did not default in that period of time, it could not be put back to the originator.

It turned out that the best way to do that – to put people in houses that would not default in 90 days – were 2/28 ARM mortgages. Cheap teaser rates for 24 months, with an eventual large reset.

This monumental, unprecedented change in lending standards led directly to the key to the current crisis. It also shows what happens when we remove supervision from the financial sector. Most of these mortgage originators – nearly 300 – have since filed for bankruptcy.

~~~

Why do we have referees in professional sports? All intense competition leads to rules of the game getting tested. Refs are on the field to prevent the game from spiraling into something unrecognizable to fans.

In business, the profit incentive leads to similar behavior. We push the envelope, tap dance close to that line, and then blow past it.

Deregulation took the referees off of the field, allowed speculative excesses to flourish, and reckless short-term incentives to distort behavior.

That is Human Nature – we are competitive creatures, and we require reasonable boundaries to protect ourselves from our own worst instincts. When left to our own devices, we push the envelope, cut corners, even work against our own best interests in the pursuit of profits. Every financial scandal over the past decade – corrupt analysts, fraudulent accounting, over-stating profits, predatory lending, conflicts of interests, option backdating – are the result of a legitimate business operation pushed up to the legal boundaries, and then going far beyond them.

That is the risk deregulation brings: It encourages behavior that leads to systemic risk. In the present case, the global credit markets have frozen, threatening a worldwide recession. The total cleanup costs are scaling up towards $10 trillion dollars.
All due to an excess of deregulatory zeal . . .

The Big Picture


And just to add a little more of Bush deregulating the mortgage industry, here he is making a speech in 2004 :


I’m going to tell you another statistic, which is an amazing statistic given what we’ve been through. Housing starts in 2003 were the highest in a quarter of a century. Homeownership sales were the highest ever. Sixty-eight percent of homeownership — the homeownership rate is the highest ever. And that’s fantastic news for America. We want more people owning their own home. There’s nothing like saying, this home is my home. (Applause.)

There’s nothing better than somebody over there saying, welcome to my home. And we’re about to talk to some first-time homeowners. And I want to share their stories with you — they’re going to share their stories with me, and you’re going to get to hear it.

I do want to talk about a challenge for our country, and there is a minority homeownership gap in America. Not enough minorities own their own homes. And it seems like to me it makes sense to encourage all to own homes. And so we’ve done some interesting things. Again, I want to thank the Congress. But we passed down payment assistance programs that will help low-income folks buy their own home. A lot of times, if you’re trying to buy your own home, you never bought one, the down payment seems like a little much. Some of you know what I’m talking about. It seems to make sense if one of the things we’re trying to do is to get — to close the minority home ownership gap and to get 5.5 new — million new minority homeowners into homes over the next five years, that we ought to help with down payments — and we have.

The state of Arizona is going to have $2.6 million to help people with down payments. (Applause.) I proposed that mortgages that have F.H.A.-backed insurance pay no down payment. That will help 150,000 new homeowners. (Applause.)

. . .

One other thing I’ve done, is I’ve called on private sector mortgage banks and banks to be more aggressive about lending money to first-time home buyers. And the response has been really good. There’s a lot of people in this — our communities around the country that deeply care about the issue of homeownership, and they’ve been responsive.


And more again :

Posted 1/20/2004 1:31 AM

Bush seeks to increase minority homeownership
By Thomas A. Fogarty, USA TODAY
In a bid to boost minority homeownership, President Bush will ask Congress for authority to eliminate the down-payment requirement for Federal Housing Administration loans.

In announcing the plan Monday at a home builders show in Las Vegas, Federal Housing Commissioner John Weicher called the proposal the "most significant FHA initiative in more than a decade." It would lead to 150,000 first-time owners annually, he said.

Nothing-down options are available on the private mortgage market, but, in general, they require the borrower to have pristine credit. Bush's proposed change would extend the nothing-down option to borrowers with blemished credit.

The FHA isn't a direct lender, but guarantees loan payments for mortgages on moderately priced owner-occupied property. The FHA guarantee now permits private lenders to finance as much as 97% of the purchase price of a home for millions of low- and middle-income borrowers.

In the proposal soon to be delivered to Congress, Bush would allow the FHA to guarantee loans for the full purchase price of the home, plus down-payment costs. As a practical matter, the FHA would guarantee mortgages as high as 103% of the value of the underlying property.

USATODAY.com - Bush seeks to increase minority homeownership


And the mortgage deregulation led to stuff like this. Some nice quotes for you here :

"Where once more-marginal applicants would simply have been denied credit, lenders are now able to quite efficiently judge the risk posed by individual applicants and to price that risk appropriately. These improvements have led to rapid growth in subprime mortgage lending."

Alan Greenspan
Chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank,
April 2005




"It was unbelievable. We almost couldn't produce enough to keep the appetite of the investors happy. More people wanted bonds than we could actually produce." —Mike Francis, executive director, residential mortgage trading desk, Morgan Stanley, quoted in "The Giant Pool of Money," This American Life, May 9, 2008


What is that movie? Boiler Room? That's what it's like. I mean, it's the [coolest] thing ever. Cubicle, cubicle, cubicle for 150,000 square feet. The ceilings were probably 25 or 30 feet high. The elevator had a big graffiti painting. Big open space. And it was awesome. We lived mortgage. That's all we did. This deal, that deal. How we gonna get it funded? What's the problem with this one? That's all everyone's talking about . . . 

We looked at loans. These people didn't have a pot to piss in. They can barely make car payments and we're giving them a 300, 400 thousand dollar house.

Then the next one came along, and it was no income, verified assets. So you don't have to tell the people what you do for a living. You don't have to tell the people what you do for work. All you have to do is state you have a certain amount of money in your bank account. And then, the next one, is just no income, no asset. You don't have to state anything. Just have to have a credit score and a pulse.

[reporter] Alex Blumberg: Actually, that pulse thing. Also optional. Like the case in Ohio where twenty-three dead people were approved for mortgages.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"Mr. Howard made it clear to the mortgage broker that he could not read or write, but his loan application erroneously claimed he had had 16 years of education."

Center for Responsible Lending report
"IndyMac: What Went Wrong?"
June 30, 2008



"I would reject a loan and the insanity would begin," one former underwriter
told CRL. "It would go to upper management and the next thing you know it's



going to closing... I'm like, 'What the Sam Hill? There's nothing in there to
support this loan.'"

Center for Responsible Lending report
"IndyMac:
What Went Wrong?"
June 30, 2008





Mortgage-backed securities, credit default swaps and similar new financial
securities and products were made possible by the wave of deregulation led
by the Republican party and primarily by Republican Senator Phil Gramm,



who managed to repeal the Depression-era bills and statutes that prevented
the kind of unsafe leverage and risk-taking that has been a hallmark of the
financial industry since the turn of the century.

Mr.Gramm, now a lobbyist for UBS, has a long history of deregulating markets for



and
lobbying for corporations like Enron. UBS and its executives are currently
facing charges of having helped clients evade taxes in multiple countries, including
the U.S. and Germany. UBS has directed its private bankers to stay away



from the U.S., fearing that they would be detained for questioning in
relation with the ongoing probe by U.S. prosecutors.



Picture the whole chain. You have Clarence. He gets a mortgage from a broker. The broker sells the mortgage to a small bank. The small bank sells the mortgage to a guy like Mike at a big investment firm on Wall Street. Then Mike takes a few thousand mortgages he's bought this way, he puts them in one big pile. Now he's got thousands of mortgage checks coming to him every month. It's a huge monthly stream of money, which is expected to come in for the next thirty years, the life of a mortgage. And he then sells shares of this monthly income to investors. Those shares are called mortgage-backed securities. And the $70 trillion global pool of money loved them.



And so on. Now then, now that you've read all this, seen the guys with the chainsaw and the tree shear chopping up a stack of mortgaeg regulations, what's your opinion on the whole thing?

Thanks for the data dump.
Why don't you try again and this time highlight the part about the regulation requiring banks to hold a mortgage until maturity?

I already provided it. Read the post again then go and read the archives of the site i linked to. You'll find endless stuff there. now then, how about answering my question. here it is again ; now that you've read all this and seen the guys with the chainsaw and the tree shears chopping up a bunch of mortgage regulations, what's your opinion on the whole thing?

No, nothing in there said that before Bush took office, banks had to hold mortgages until maturity.
No, nothing in there about Bush suddenly allowing banks, for the first time, to sell mortgages after they create them.

Try again?
 
Thanks for the data dump.
Why don't you try again and this time highlight the part about the regulation requiring banks to hold a mortgage until maturity?

I already provided it. Read the post again then go and read the archives of the site i linked to. You'll find endless stuff there. now then, how about answering my question. here it is again ; now that you've read all this and seen the guys with the chainsaw and the tree shears chopping up a bunch of mortgage regulations, what's your opinion on the whole thing?

No, nothing in there said that before Bush took office, banks had to hold mortgages until maturity.
No, nothing in there about Bush suddenly allowing banks, for the first time, to sell mortgages after they create them.

Try again?

Read my link again. Banks traditionally held a lot of their mortgages to maturity. It meant they had skin in the game and wouldn't go hog wild writing bad loans and then dumping them on somebody else, like what happened in the 2000s. When lending standards were relaxed from 2002 onwards the only regulation was the the loans not default for 90 or 180 days.

Banks and mortgage priginators no longer cared whether the loans they were making were safe or not. The mortgagees only had to make their payments for three or six months and then it was somebody else's problem. That's why new mortgage products with cheap teaser monthly rates for the first couple of years of the mortgage were heavily promoted around then. People could buy a two or three hundred thousand dollar home for rent money, and they were told by the mortgage seller "don't worry about the loan rate resetting, just come back to us and refinance the loan!". Except in 2005 or 6 the Fed started to raise rates and it was impossible to refinance the loans. Which led to the string of mortgage defaults which led to the meltdown.
 
Here's where I stopped reading. "Bush deregulated the mortgage industry pretty much entirely"

Fucking moron. Total fucking moron

Can you provide any facts and evidence to show that i'm wrong. I challenge you to try. Let's debate this and find out which of us could more accurately be described as a moron.

Bush did not deregulate the mortgage industry. You are a fucking moron.
And your article sucks.

That's an impressive reply. I just posted a whole bunch of facts and evidence that quite clearly show that the bush administration deregulated the mortgage industry. Now they weren't 100% to blame for the meltdown because a lot of deregulation happened before they took office. but an awaful lot of the stuff that directly led to the meltdown was done by the bush administration. So, can you refute the stuff I posted with actual facts and evidence? I challenge you to try. let's debate this and find out which of us can better be described as a moron.[/QUOTE]

You showed no such thing.
Now you are saying that the Bush Administration deregulated the mortgage industry. But they did it before they took office. WTF?
 
I already provided it. Read the post again then go and read the archives of the site i linked to. You'll find endless stuff there. now then, how about answering my question. here it is again ; now that you've read all this and seen the guys with the chainsaw and the tree shears chopping up a bunch of mortgage regulations, what's your opinion on the whole thing?

No, nothing in there said that before Bush took office, banks had to hold mortgages until maturity.
No, nothing in there about Bush suddenly allowing banks, for the first time, to sell mortgages after they create them.

Try again?

Read my link again. Banks traditionally held a lot of their mortgages to maturity. It meant they had skin in the game and wouldn't go hog wild writing bad loans and then dumping them on somebody else, like what happened in the 2000s. When lending standards were relaxed from 2002 onwards the only regulation was the the loans not default for 90 or 180 days.

Banks and mortgage priginators no longer cared whether the loans they were making were safe or not. The mortgagees only had to make their payments for three or six months and then it was somebody else's problem. That's why new mortgage products with cheap teaser monthly rates for the first couple of years of the mortgage were heavily promoted around then. People could buy a two or three hundred thousand dollar home for rent money, and they were told by the mortgage seller "don't worry about the loan rate resetting, just come back to us and refinance the loan!". Except in 2005 or 6 the Fed started to raise rates and it was impossible to refinance the loans. Which led to the string of mortgage defaults which led to the meltdown.

Banks traditionally did not write mortgages. In fact there was often regulation barring them. This is why we had S&Ls, which traditionally did write mortgages.
Remember the S&L crisis,when interest rates rose so bank holdings became worthless? This is why standardization and securitization took hold.
 
class-warfare4.jpg
 
but we need more no tax paying billionairs

Obama has cut taxes more than Bush ever did.

Obama the Silent Tax Cutter
You wouldn’t know it, but he’s cut taxes more than George W. Bush did in his first term... Obama is one of the most prolific tax cutters in recent history... Obama has cut taxes to lower levels than Bush did...

Obama planned on cutting taxes even before he became president.

Obama may delay tax-cut rollback for wealthy
President-elect Barack Obama may consider delaying a campaign promise - to roll back tax cuts on high-income Americans - as part of his economic recovery strategy, two aides said... His aides' comments suggest Obama may be wary of imposing any additional tax burden at a time of deep crisis, despite the outlook for record budget deficits and mounting national debt.
 
Last edited:
No, nothing in there said that before Bush took office, banks had to hold mortgages until maturity.
No, nothing in there about Bush suddenly allowing banks, for the first time, to sell mortgages after they create them.

Try again?

Read my link again. Banks traditionally held a lot of their mortgages to maturity. It meant they had skin in the game and wouldn't go hog wild writing bad loans and then dumping them on somebody else, like what happened in the 2000s. When lending standards were relaxed from 2002 onwards the only regulation was the the loans not default for 90 or 180 days.

Banks and mortgage priginators no longer cared whether the loans they were making were safe or not. The mortgagees only had to make their payments for three or six months and then it was somebody else's problem. That's why new mortgage products with cheap teaser monthly rates for the first couple of years of the mortgage were heavily promoted around then. People could buy a two or three hundred thousand dollar home for rent money, and they were told by the mortgage seller "don't worry about the loan rate resetting, just come back to us and refinance the loan!". Except in 2005 or 6 the Fed started to raise rates and it was impossible to refinance the loans. Which led to the string of mortgage defaults which led to the meltdown.

Banks traditionally did not write mortgages. In fact there was often regulation barring them. This is why we had S&Ls, which traditionally did write mortgages.
Remember the S&L crisis,when interest rates rose so bank holdings became worthless? This is why standardization and securitization took hold.


Banks didn't write mortgages? You're sure about that?
 
Can you provide any facts and evidence to show that i'm wrong. I challenge you to try. Let's debate this and find out which of us could more accurately be described as a moron.

Bush did not deregulate the mortgage industry. You are a fucking moron.
And your article sucks.

That's an impressive reply. I just posted a whole bunch of facts and evidence that quite clearly show that the bush administration deregulated the mortgage industry. Now they weren't 100% to blame for the meltdown because a lot of deregulation happened before they took office. but an awaful lot of the stuff that directly led to the meltdown was done by the bush administration. So, can you refute the stuff I posted with actual facts and evidence? I challenge you to try. let's debate this and find out which of us can better be described as a moron.

You showed no such thing.
Now you are saying that the Bush Administration deregulated the mortgage industry. But they did it before they took office. WTF?[/QUOTE]

I'm happy to let people reading this decide for themselves whether or not I showed that the Bush administration deregulated the mortgage industry.


Mortgage lending standards progressively declined between 2002-8. Here's a person who used to work in the mortgage industry, a man who, crucially, knows what he's talking about. This is part of a transcript of a show about the mortgage meltdown :


Alex Blumberg: Mike Garner’s job was to buy up individual mortgages, mainly from
brokers, bundle two or three hundred of them together, and sell them up the chain
to wall street, to guys like Mike Francis.

[...]

Alex Blumberg: And in the beginning, he'd only buy mortgages that were pretty
standard and pretty safe. Mortgages where people had come up with a down
payment and proven they had a steady income and money in the bank.
And they sold so many mortgages that there came a point in 2003 where just about
everybody who wanted a mortgage and was qualified to get one .... had gotten one.
But the pool of money had just gotten started. They wanted more mortgage backed
securities.
So Wall Street had to find more people to take out mortgages. Which meant lending
to people who never would’ve qualified before.
And so Mike noticed that every month, the guidelines were getting a little looser.
Something called a stated income, verified asset loan came out, which meant you
didn't have to provide paycheck stubs and w-2 forms, as they had in the past. You
could simply state your income, as long as you showed that you had money in the
bank.
Mike Garner: The next guideline lower is just stated income, stated
assets. Then you state what you make and state what’s in your bank account.
They call and make sure you work where you say you work. Then an
accountant has to say for your field it is possible to make what you said you
make. But they don’t say what you make, just say it’s possible that they
could make that.
Alex Blumberg: It’s just so funny that instead of just asking people to prove
what they make there’s this theater in place of you have to find an
accountant sitting right in front of me who could very easily provide a W2, but
we’re not asking for a W2 form, but we do want this accountant to say yeah,
what they’re saying is plausible in some universe.
Mike Garner: Yeah, and loan officers would have an accountant they could call
up and say “Can you write a statement saying a truck driver can make this
much money?” Then the next one, came along, and it was no income, verified
assets. So you don't have to tell the people what you do for a living. You don’t
have to tell the people what you do for work. All you have to do is state you
have a certain amount of money in your bank account. And then, the next
one, is just no income, no asset. You don't have to state anything. Just have
to have a credit score and a pulse.
Alex Blumberg: Actually that pulse thing. Also optional. Like the case in Ohio where
23 dead people were approved for mortgages.
8
Adam Davidson: An interesting fact, here. Mike Garner's bank did not care how
risky these mortgages were. This was the new era: banks didn't have to hold on to
these mortgages for 30 years. They didn’t have to wait and see if they’d be paid
back. Bank's like Garner's just owned them for a month or two and then sold them
on to Wall Street. Wall Street would sell them on to the global pool of money.
Alex Blumberg: Which is how we get half-million dollar, no income, no asset loans.
Adam Davidson: And loans to dead people. So there's another thing going on:
housing prices were rising, fast. Lots of people in the mortgage industry had this
faith that housing prices, in the US, simply never go down. So, from the bank's
perspective, even if the worst happens and someone defaults, the bank would then
own the house which is now worth even more than when they gave out the loan.
So, All Mike cared about was whether or not his customers--the Wall Street
investment banks--would buy those mortgages from him. And he was under
pressure to approve more and more loans. Because other guys in his company--the
actual guys cruising strip malls all across Nevada buying mortgages from brokers,
their commission depended on selling more loans. And occasionally, those guys
would hear about some loan that some other mortgage company offered that they
weren’t allowed to offer. And they'd complain to Mike.
Mike Garner: Three of them would show up at your door first thing in the
morning and say, I lost 10 deals last week to Meritius bank. They've got this
loan. Look at the guidelines for this loan. Is there any way we can do this?
We're losing deals left and right. I'd get on the phone and start calling all
these street firms or Countrywide and say “Would you buy this loan?” Finally,
you’d find out who was buying them.
Alex Blumberg: So, Merrill Lynch would say no. And Goldman Sachs would
say no. And you'd finally hit on somebody and they be like “Yeah, we’ll buy
that loan.”
Mike Garner: Yeah, and once I got a hit, I'd call back and say, “Hey, Bear
Stearns is buying this loan. I’d like to give you the opportunity to buy it too.”
Once one person buys them, all the rest of them follow suit.


[...]

Alex Blumberg: But Glen didn't worry about whether the loans were good. That's
someone else's problem. And this way of thinking thrived at every step of this
mortgage security chain. A guy like Mike Francis, from Morgan Stanley, he told me
10
he bought loans, lots of loans, from Glen's company, and he knew in his gut they
were bad loans. Like these NINA loans.
Mike Francis: No income no asset loans. That's a liar's loan. We are telling
you to lie to us. We're hoping you don't lie. Tell us what you make, tell us
what you have in the bank, but we won't verify? We’re setting you up to lie.
Something about that feels very wrong. It felt wrong way back when and I
wish we had never done it. Unfortunately, what happened ... we did it
because everyone else was doing it.


[...]

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/sites/default/files/355_transcript.pdf

Mortgage lending standards certainly dropped a lot during the Bush administration years, didn't they?
 
How many Muslims rioting have you seen in the U.S? How many in Paris and London? OK, they dont have a better life. Whatever they have is left over from rebuilding after WW2 and better policies that largely ended in the 1960s. They were able to skimp on military spending because Uncle was there to protect them from the Soviets. Now their own financial systems are wrecks.
I don't see millions of Americans moving to Europe but I see lots of Europeans wanting to moev here. Maybe you're the one who needs to get a clue?
I don't think you'll find many Europeans who want to move here. They like to visit because their euro goes so far on our cheap dollar, though.
Plenty of rich Americans are buying homes in Europe...many of them are republicans.
In 1996 there were 197,000 Europeans who moved here. ANd the dollar wasn't so cheap.
Immigrants to U.S. by Country of Origin — Infoplease.com
You conveniently ignore the social unrest in Europe presently.

Your point is refuted. Europeans do not have it better than Americans and there is no reason we need to copy anything they do.
More American Expatriates Give Up Citizenship - NYTimes.com

More American Expatriates Give Up Citizenship
 
Bush did not deregulate the mortgage industry. You are a fucking moron.
And your article sucks.

That's an impressive reply. I just posted a whole bunch of facts and evidence that quite clearly show that the bush administration deregulated the mortgage industry. Now they weren't 100% to blame for the meltdown because a lot of deregulation happened before they took office. but an awaful lot of the stuff that directly led to the meltdown was done by the bush administration. So, can you refute the stuff I posted with actual facts and evidence? I challenge you to try. let's debate this and find out which of us can better be described as a moron.

You showed no such thing.
Now you are saying that the Bush Administration deregulated the mortgage industry. But they did it before they took office. WTF?

I'm happy to let people reading this decide for themselves whether or not I showed that the Bush administration deregulated the mortgage industry.


Mortgage lending standards progressively declined between 2002-8. Here's a person who used to work in the mortgage industry, a man who, crucially, knows what he's talking about. This is part of a transcript of a show about the mortgage meltdown :


Alex Blumberg: Mike Garner’s job was to buy up individual mortgages, mainly from
brokers, bundle two or three hundred of them together, and sell them up the chain
to wall street, to guys like Mike Francis.

[...]

Alex Blumberg: And in the beginning, he'd only buy mortgages that were pretty
standard and pretty safe. Mortgages where people had come up with a down
payment and proven they had a steady income and money in the bank.
And they sold so many mortgages that there came a point in 2003 where just about
everybody who wanted a mortgage and was qualified to get one .... had gotten one.
But the pool of money had just gotten started. They wanted more mortgage backed
securities.
So Wall Street had to find more people to take out mortgages. Which meant lending
to people who never would’ve qualified before.
And so Mike noticed that every month, the guidelines were getting a little looser.
Something called a stated income, verified asset loan came out, which meant you
didn't have to provide paycheck stubs and w-2 forms, as they had in the past. You
could simply state your income, as long as you showed that you had money in the
bank.
Mike Garner: The next guideline lower is just stated income, stated
assets. Then you state what you make and state what’s in your bank account.
They call and make sure you work where you say you work. Then an
accountant has to say for your field it is possible to make what you said you
make. But they don’t say what you make, just say it’s possible that they
could make that.
Alex Blumberg: It’s just so funny that instead of just asking people to prove
what they make there’s this theater in place of you have to find an
accountant sitting right in front of me who could very easily provide a W2, but
we’re not asking for a W2 form, but we do want this accountant to say yeah,
what they’re saying is plausible in some universe.
Mike Garner: Yeah, and loan officers would have an accountant they could call
up and say “Can you write a statement saying a truck driver can make this
much money?” Then the next one, came along, and it was no income, verified
assets. So you don't have to tell the people what you do for a living. You don’t
have to tell the people what you do for work. All you have to do is state you
have a certain amount of money in your bank account. And then, the next
one, is just no income, no asset. You don't have to state anything. Just have
to have a credit score and a pulse.
Alex Blumberg: Actually that pulse thing. Also optional. Like the case in Ohio where
23 dead people were approved for mortgages.
8
Adam Davidson: An interesting fact, here. Mike Garner's bank did not care how
risky these mortgages were. This was the new era: banks didn't have to hold on to
these mortgages for 30 years. They didn’t have to wait and see if they’d be paid
back. Bank's like Garner's just owned them for a month or two and then sold them
on to Wall Street. Wall Street would sell them on to the global pool of money.
Alex Blumberg: Which is how we get half-million dollar, no income, no asset loans.
Adam Davidson: And loans to dead people. So there's another thing going on:
housing prices were rising, fast. Lots of people in the mortgage industry had this
faith that housing prices, in the US, simply never go down. So, from the bank's
perspective, even if the worst happens and someone defaults, the bank would then
own the house which is now worth even more than when they gave out the loan.
So, All Mike cared about was whether or not his customers--the Wall Street
investment banks--would buy those mortgages from him. And he was under
pressure to approve more and more loans. Because other guys in his company--the
actual guys cruising strip malls all across Nevada buying mortgages from brokers,
their commission depended on selling more loans. And occasionally, those guys
would hear about some loan that some other mortgage company offered that they
weren’t allowed to offer. And they'd complain to Mike.
Mike Garner: Three of them would show up at your door first thing in the
morning and say, I lost 10 deals last week to Meritius bank. They've got this
loan. Look at the guidelines for this loan. Is there any way we can do this?
We're losing deals left and right. I'd get on the phone and start calling all
these street firms or Countrywide and say “Would you buy this loan?” Finally,
you’d find out who was buying them.
Alex Blumberg: So, Merrill Lynch would say no. And Goldman Sachs would
say no. And you'd finally hit on somebody and they be like “Yeah, we’ll buy
that loan.”
Mike Garner: Yeah, and once I got a hit, I'd call back and say, “Hey, Bear
Stearns is buying this loan. I’d like to give you the opportunity to buy it too.”
Once one person buys them, all the rest of them follow suit.


[...]

Alex Blumberg: But Glen didn't worry about whether the loans were good. That's
someone else's problem. And this way of thinking thrived at every step of this
mortgage security chain. A guy like Mike Francis, from Morgan Stanley, he told me
10
he bought loans, lots of loans, from Glen's company, and he knew in his gut they
were bad loans. Like these NINA loans.
Mike Francis: No income no asset loans. That's a liar's loan. We are telling
you to lie to us. We're hoping you don't lie. Tell us what you make, tell us
what you have in the bank, but we won't verify? We’re setting you up to lie.
Something about that feels very wrong. It felt wrong way back when and I
wish we had never done it. Unfortunately, what happened ... we did it
because everyone else was doing it.


[...]

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/sites/default/files/355_transcript.pdf

Mortgage lending standards certainly dropped a lot during the Bush administration years, didn't they?[/QUOTE]

Which part of that proves that George W Bush deregulated the mortgage industry?
 
I don't think you'll find many Europeans who want to move here. They like to visit because their euro goes so far on our cheap dollar, though.
Plenty of rich Americans are buying homes in Europe...many of them are republicans.
In 1996 there were 197,000 Europeans who moved here. ANd the dollar wasn't so cheap.
Immigrants to U.S. by Country of Origin — Infoplease.com
You conveniently ignore the social unrest in Europe presently.

Your point is refuted. Europeans do not have it better than Americans and there is no reason we need to copy anything they do.
More American Expatriates Give Up Citizenship - NYTimes.com

More American Expatriates Give Up Citizenship

Going for the irrelevant.
As I recall from the article, the actual number is under 500.
 
Read my link again. Banks traditionally held a lot of their mortgages to maturity. It meant they had skin in the game and wouldn't go hog wild writing bad loans and then dumping them on somebody else, like what happened in the 2000s. When lending standards were relaxed from 2002 onwards the only regulation was the the loans not default for 90 or 180 days.

Banks and mortgage priginators no longer cared whether the loans they were making were safe or not. The mortgagees only had to make their payments for three or six months and then it was somebody else's problem. That's why new mortgage products with cheap teaser monthly rates for the first couple of years of the mortgage were heavily promoted around then. People could buy a two or three hundred thousand dollar home for rent money, and they were told by the mortgage seller "don't worry about the loan rate resetting, just come back to us and refinance the loan!". Except in 2005 or 6 the Fed started to raise rates and it was impossible to refinance the loans. Which led to the string of mortgage defaults which led to the meltdown.

Banks traditionally did not write mortgages. In fact there was often regulation barring them. This is why we had S&Ls, which traditionally did write mortgages.
Remember the S&L crisis,when interest rates rose so bank holdings became worthless? This is why standardization and securitization took hold.


Banks didn't write mortgages? You're sure about that?

There were periods in our history where that was the case. Try looking at James Grant's history of banking in America.
Later on they did, but the S&Ls were primarily the mortgage companies. They all went belly up in the crisis of about 1990, well before George W Bush ever became president.
 
In 1996 there were 197,000 Europeans who moved here. ANd the dollar wasn't so cheap.
Immigrants to U.S. by Country of Origin — Infoplease.com
You conveniently ignore the social unrest in Europe presently.

Your point is refuted. Europeans do not have it better than Americans and there is no reason we need to copy anything they do.
More American Expatriates Give Up Citizenship - NYTimes.com

More American Expatriates Give Up Citizenship

Going for the irrelevant.
As I recall from the article, the actual number is under 500.
Those who gave up their US citizenship in one quarter of one year, yes.
 

Going for the irrelevant.
As I recall from the article, the actual number is under 500.
Those who gave up their US citizenship in one quarter of one year, yes.

So that means there were about 1,000 European immigrants for every one U.S. emigrant.
That's about right. The U.S. is about 1000 times better off than Europe.
Thanks.
 
Banks traditionally did not write mortgages. In fact there was often regulation barring them. This is why we had S&Ls, which traditionally did write mortgages.
Remember the S&L crisis,when interest rates rose so bank holdings became worthless? This is why standardization and securitization took hold.


Banks didn't write mortgages? You're sure about that?

There were periods in our history where that was the case. Try looking at James Grant's history of banking in America.
Later on they did, but the S&Ls were primarily the mortgage companies. They all went belly up in the crisis of about 1990, well before George W Bush ever became president.

I'm talking specifically about the events of the last decade so the stuff about S and ls irrelevant..

Why did S and ls go belly up?

Also, too. I've posted a whole bunch of stuff showing that mortgage lending standards declined dramatically during the Bush years and articles by Wall Street fund managers and state Attorney generals that show that the Bush administration either chose not to enforce existing regulations or literally took a chainsaw to them, or even prevented individual states from enforcing various regulations that would have prevented a lot of the bad lending. I've also asked you to reply to these posts. I don't want to cut and paste all the actual stuff again but how about clicking the quote button on these particular posts and replying to what I've actually posted?

Here they are again. Just click the quote button and reply to the stuff in the post :

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...te-profits-1-went-to-wages-4.html#post4154905


http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...te-profits-1-went-to-wages-9.html#post4156919
 
Banks didn't write mortgages? You're sure about that?

There were periods in our history where that was the case. Try looking at James Grant's history of banking in America.
Later on they did, but the S&Ls were primarily the mortgage companies. They all went belly up in the crisis of about 1990, well before George W Bush ever became president.

I'm talking specifically about the events of the last decade so the stuff about S and ls irrelevant..

Why did S and ls go belly up?

Also, too. I've posted a whole bunch of stuff showing that mortgage lending standards declined dramatically during the Bush years and articles by Wall Street fund managers and state Attorney generals that show that the Bush administration either chose not to enforce existing regulations or literally took a chainsaw to them, or even prevented individual states from enforcing various regulations that would have prevented a lot of the bad lending. I've also asked you to reply to these posts. I don't want to cut and paste all the actual stuff again but how about clicking the quote button on these particular posts and replying to what I've actually posted?

Here they are again. Just click the quote button and reply to the stuff in the post :

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...te-profits-1-went-to-wages-4.html#post4154905


http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...te-profits-1-went-to-wages-9.html#post4156919

S&Ls went under because they could not sell their loans, as there was no standardized underwriting, making equal comparisons difficult.

So you agree that you have not posted a single piece of evidence that George W Bush deregulated the mortgage industry. Declining standards have nothing to do with deregulation. You understand that, right?
 
Since 1980 America has steadily deregulated the economy, "freed it up" to set the markets free. This reached its current apex in the early 2000s under george bush who went on a deregulation binge especially with the financial industry. So markets had never been freer in the first decade of this century than they'd been since the 1920s. And exactly what happened? Bush got the worst job growth of any president. Also, too. Since we started deregulating corporations have foun d less and less demand to cater to and invest to meet. They're steadily accumulated money and are sitting on uninvested trillions of dollars. This accumulation of cash continued all through the GW Bush years, the period when markets have never been freer. So, bearing this in mind, why wasn't there massive job growth in the 2000s when markets had never been freer in living memory?


HAHAHAHA!!!!!

You think we have LESS Regulation now?

Sarbanes Oxley
Dodd Frank
ObamaCare
and the reams of regulations being made up by the DOE, FDA, EPA etc. in an endless quest to regulate the most mundane aspects of our lives

When the full weight of the federal government is applied to fine a family $90,000 for making $200 of profit selling bunny rabbits, there is Far Too Much Government are far too little liberty.

Remember how Enron used newly deregulated energy markets to gouge their customers and dodgy accounting to blow up their own compnay? Remember Adelphia, Worldcom, Tyco and other accounting scandals? Sarbanes-Oxley was introduced to try and re-regulate what had previously been deregulated and stop more Enrons from happening. Same goes for Dodd-Frank, which unfortunately is basically a waste of time and is basically endless loopholes. But the clear trend over the past thirty years is one of deregulation, especially in the financial industry, and this has led to the biggest economic meltdown since the 1920s, the last time we had such lax financial regulation.

No. What I remember is Enron using newly created energy markets. They did ask for deregulation in the financial reporting laws. I have no idea why, but I do know it had nothing to do with deregulating the energy market.
 

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