Simple global warming question:

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by mattskramer, Jun 4, 2007.

  1. mattskramer
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    mattskramer Senior Member

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    I have a couple of honest questions for those who are concerned about man-made global warming and related issues. This is not a trick question. I don’t plan to argue politics with it.

    How do you account for the multiple prehistoric ice ages? There was strong global heating and cooling and heating and cooling before man-made technology had an alleged impact on the environment.

    How do you account for Mt. Vesuvius and Mt. Saint Helens? I contend that these volcanoes and other geologic events do more to influence the environment than does anything that man does. Did man cause these mountains to erupt?

    Again, I do not want to argue for the sake of arguing. I have an open mind and do not have a hard opinion cast in stone. It would probably take very little to influence me one way or another. I looked at “An Inconvenient Truth.” I listen to Rush Limbaugh and Mike Savage.

    Comments please.
     
  2. TheStripey1
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    TheStripey1 Member

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    Global Warming/Climate Change does not need our permission to happen.

    It doesn't matter to me what is causing the current heating of our environment, what matters to me is that everyone sits around and tries to figure out who is to blame for it rather than trying to figure out what we can do to ensure our civilization doesn't go the way of the dinosaurs...

    1) How many people were adversely affected the last time we had a climate change of this magnitude?
    2) How many were forced to flee their low lying homes when the seas rose?
    3) How many were killed in the ensuing crop failure driven famines?
    4) How many died during the wars that ensued when major populations were forced to flee?

    How many?
     
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  3. TheStripey1
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    TheStripey1 Member

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    we NEED to start thinking about the alternatives...

    like should we build a sea wall to protect our coastal infrastructure? that would be a massive undertaking... and we could no doubt put ALL of our cheap labor illegal aliens on it...

    which would have the added benefit of giving us our jobs back...
     
  4. midcan5
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    midcan5 liberal / progressive

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    Don't know where you live but not so many years ago many streams, rivers, and lakes were polluted due to the dumping of toxic chemicals etc. In the same way it seems logical that we can pollute the atmosphere. The question should be a technical, scientific one and not a corporate political football. I personally see nothing wrong with fresh air, clean streams, and healthy forests.
     
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  5. Bern80
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    Bern80 Gold Member

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    Well Matts unlike the preivous responders how bout I actually try answering your questions. As a non climate expert you can just take for whatever it's worth I guess.

    1) My guess is there simply part of a natural cycle. There isn't much other explanation than that. Or possibly some catastrophic events i.e. an astroid or large scale volcano eruption.

    2) I don't know that you account for them realy. But the fact remains that volcano eruptions have spewed far more pollutants into the air than we have so far. They have altered the weather. It has happened several time in human history and life has gone on. Why people contend that our environmental impact has reached god like proportions is beyond me. When nature has shown time and time again that we can't come even close to matching here furry.
     
  6. RetiredGySgt
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    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

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    It is simple. One reason is that we MAY be seeing a dangerous change, what is better? To accept that it is nature and we can do little to nothing about it? Or to pretend man is causing it, thus man can fix it?

    Another reason is it is scare tactics with little to do with actual science. This is borne out by how anyone that disagrees is treated. last I heard the way Science is SUPPOSED to work is that when someone disagrees with a theory and provides tests and information that support that disagreement, it is reviewed and checked for accuracy and the science community tries to figure out if that is correct. What we have with the theory of man made global warming is blacklisting, character assassination and personal attacks on anyone that disagrees. No one actually reviews the opposing position, rather they try to discredit the person making the claim.

    Last I checked Science was NEVER about consensus but rather the procedure, the test the review and a healthy respect for sceptisim, a desire for scientists to challenge accepted theories so as to strength them or show them to be flawed. What we have is political games and personal attacks and a refusal to acknowledge much less review and test the people that disagree with a consensus of a theory that has little science involved in its formation.
     
  7. Kemuri
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    Kemuri Rookie

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    I'm not an expert, but here is my answer anyway.

    The ice ages happened for a number of reasons. Periods of intense volcanic activity, a change in the earths axis, etc. The problem is that we have seen warming at an unprecedented rate. That is the main reason that it is thought that current global warming is man made. Another reason is that we were already in a fairly warm period and yet we kept getting warmer which, given our understanding of the earths average temperatures, doesn't fit the way that things go naturally.

    Volcanoes do much more in a small amount of time than man does, true. But when you look at history from the industrial revolution on there have been relatively few major eruptions. I would guess that within that time period we, meaning industrialized nations, have put out far more pollutants than volcanoes.

    Again, I don't claim to be an expert. Either way which is better, assume that it isn't our fault when it may be and doom ourselves to another ice age, or assume that may be our fault even though it might not be and do what we can to stop it just in case? If we try to stop it and it isn't our fault then ok, but we'll still have cleaner air to breath. If we do nothing and it has nothing to do with us, then ok again. But if it does have to do with us and we don't stop it we may very well be setting ourselves up to have our civilization destroyed.

    That's how I see it at least.
     
  8. RetiredGySgt
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    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

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    Your assumimg we are not doing anything to begin with, this is simply NOT true. And check out the radicals, they will give a free pass to all the developing nations and China even though they acknowledge that with in 10 or 15 years those countries will be the biggest pollutors on the planet.
     
  9. TheStripey1
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    TheStripey1 Member

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    which side are you saying is being blacklisted? those that say that GW/CC is happening or those that say it isn't?

    I reiterate... GW/CC doesn't need our permission to be. We need to start thinking about how to deal with the changes that are happening in our environment BEFORE it's too late.

    Who cares who is really to blame... not I... let's stop the BSing and get down to some brainstorming about what can be done.
     
  10. RetiredGySgt
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    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

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    15 years is not enough time for us to know anything is happening that needs any drastic measures to begin with. We do not know if we are causeing the current heating or if it is simply a natural trend. We already ARE doing something about greenhouse gasses and have been for years.

    IF the envirowhackos REALLY believe their hype WHY when they managed to get the Kyoto Accord did they allow China and over half the world to be exempt? Why do they continue to ignore all but the West, the very people already working to limit green house gasses?

    Science is unable to evaluate if this is totally natural, partial natural and effected some by man, or man made. In fact Science currently is IGNORING evidence it is natural.
     
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