Sick and tired of both parties--Dems/Repubs acting like 3 yr old's fighting over toys

[emilynghiem]

The Federal Government today is so non-functional it's actually nauseating. For the last 6 years democrats refuse to work with republicans, republicans refuse to work with democrats. We have the far left trying to control the majority and the far right trying to control the majority--and NO ONE is left representing the middle--which are the overwhelming majority of this nation.

Immigration is a perfect example: There was a bi-partisan immigration bill sitting in congress that house Republican John Boehner refused to put on the floor for a vote. Democrat senate majority leader Harry Reid has stashed Republican bills in his lower file cabinet during the last 4 years refusing those to come to a vote on the senate floor. Obama ropes a dopes a Republicans again by signing an executive order on immigration, egging on Republicans--then we have Ted Cruz (doing the expected) getting on the microphone to announce--(If I were Mitch McConnell) I would tell Obama we're not going to allow any vote on any appointment he makes, if he does this.

Now the majority of this nation, including Republicans want a comprehensive immigration bill--but the far right--the minut minority of the Republican party wants to send them all back to nothing. The far left wants to make all illegals--legal and are right now applauding Obama's action. Again no one representing the middle ground.

Where does all this division come from? Rush Limbaugh--Fox News--and MSNBC and left wing talk radio who's sole purpose is to rile up and send the far left and far right into hysterical frenzies, with half truths and distortions. Who's listening to these extreme people. Obviously Democrats and Republicans.

What did the Senate and House do. The Democrats elected Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi to now be the minority leaders, and Republicans are stuck with Mitch McConnell for the senate--and of course John Boehner. And we wonder why nothing ever changes. We wonder why Democrats can no longer work with Republicans and visa versa. And they wonder why congress's approval ratings are so low.

Thanks, oreo
I think we are heading for a Constitutional Convention.
And I'd like it to be organized and headed by people of ALL parties who RECOGNIZE their
respective parties are pushing the equivalent of political BELIEFS which cross the line between church and state.

our Constitutional Amendments address religion and creed,
but don't say what to do when someone's beliefs are ABOUT government,
so it cannot be separated FROM government. We've never addressed political beliefs.

The solution to me is to agree to either Separate by party on such issues,
or form a consensus on laws if there is no way to separate the political beliefs from govt policy,
if that is the point of the belief.

Immigration laws are just one area that crosses the line between church and state
(where some people cite a higher belief in treating neighbors or strangers as equals beyond nationality)
marriage laws also (with beliefs for or against including same sex couples under either church or civil marriage or both)
death penalty/abortion
and health care (where health care as a right is a political belief mandated and established by the Democrat Party
so that it is pushed as a national religion under penalty of law, unconstitutional by the First and Fourteenth Amendments)

We need to address this and decide how to accommodate "equal political beliefs" Constitutionally
without either infringing upon the political beliefs of others, mandating or imposing by law, establishing or discriminating.

thus, I hold that decisions made regarding political beliefs must be by consensus,
and we'd need to host Constitutional conventions, organizing people by state and by party,
in order to represent all views and make sure these are included in such a consensus on each policy in question.

That's what I would call all party leaders to do,
who are equally concerned about their own parties and about the nation right now.

Many good people see the principles at stake.
A well organized Convention can bring these voices and leaders out,
and set a better platform and foundation to address the other issues.

That's what I vote for.

 

[Iceweasel]

Immigration is a perfect example: There was a bi-partisan immigration bill sitting in congress that house Republican John Boehner refused to put on the floor for a vote.

...because the Democrat bill took care of amnesty first and securing the border second. AND as history has proven, they didn't follow up with securing the border so there's no reason to believe they would do so this time. In other words, it was a dishonest bill from a dishonest party.

 

[Paperman299]

The increase in cloture votes in 2007 is clearly much greater than the pattern would warrant. Show me where cloture votes increased by more than 50 per session previously, or even where rates ever doubled following that uptick in the Nixon years. Which was the Republicans again, you might notice.

Now, I've offered clear evidence that the GOP has been obstructing the legislative process. If you have nothing but your own opinion that there was the extenuating circumstance of "crap" legislation, then that's not much, is it?

I never said that filibusters don't obstruct legislation ... That is what they are intended to do. The Progressive Liberals in Congress have provided more than enough adequate proof they desire to pass radical Progressive crap legislation. The point I made is the number of filibusters has been increasing each and every cycle listed since 1969.

That is a clearer and more consistent observation than anything you want to imply concerning data not supplied nor related to the graph.

Like I said before ... Try to find some evidence that addresses the context of your argument ... Then supply the bridge that connects it to the graph. If you want to express the minority party in the Senate has filibustered more legislation per cycle since 1969 ... Then we can agree.


.

(underlines mine)

I'm a little sleep-deprived this morning, so I hope this is all coherent...

See, this is hard to have a discussion about because you refuse to provide specific examples of "crap" legislation. I've found most of the proposed Democratic legislation of the last 6 years to be completely reasonable, as well as in line with the desire of the American people. For instance, they attempted to raise the minimum wage, and despite this measure having the support of a majority of Americans, it was filibustered. During the midterms, ballot initiatives to increase the minimum wage were winners even in states which elected Republican candidates - I bet those citizens would have liked to have seen the $10.10 bill at least come to a vote.

As to the graph, my original point is already proven. Filibustering is an area where the Republicans have been far more adversarial than the Democrats were while they were the minority party in the Senate during the 00's. But you seem to think the Republicans' explosion of filibustering is excused because it's connected to a pattern.

Let's look at it from this angle...there is a pattern over the last 40+ years of increasing filibuster rates. But who is doing the increasing? Who is breaking the ceiling on this facet of governance? It's the GOP. Their filibuster rate is a drastic increase on the previous session's in the early 70s, they substantially step it up again in the late 80s and again in the early 90s (a time when Newt Gingrich was attempting many similar tactics to what we're seeing now). What are the Democrats doing? Matching. Not escalating.

 

[pismoe]

agree and I like your informative post IceWeasel so thank you for your post . Build the wall first , defund mrobamas government as much as possible to stop his plans , all his plans !! .

 

[PaintMyHouse]

agree and I like your informative post IceWeasel so thank you for your post . Build the wall first , defund mrobamas government as much as possible to stop his plans , all his plans !! .

Good luck with the wall. You only need 1,300 miles of it, much of that across private lands which you will have to take from their owners. Have a great time.

 

[Darkwind]

The Federal Government today is so non-functional it's actually nauseating. For the last 6 years democrats refuse to work with republicans, republicans refuse to work with democrats. We have the far left trying to control the majority and the far right trying to control the majority--and NO ONE is left representing the middle--which are the overwhelming majority of this nation.

Immigration is a perfect example: There was a bi-partisan immigration bill sitting in congress that house Republican John Boehner refused to put on the floor for a vote. Democrat senate majority leader Harry Reid has stashed Republican bills in his lower file cabinet during the last 4 years refusing those to come to a vote on the senate floor. Obama ropes a dopes a Republicans again by signing an executive order on immigration, egging on Republicans--then we have Ted Cruz (doing the expected) getting on the microphone to announce--(If I were Mitch McConnell) I would tell Obama we're not going to allow any vote on any appointment he makes, if he does this.

Now the majority of this nation, including Republicans want a comprehensive immigration bill--but the far right--the minut minority of the Republican party wants to send them all back to nothing. The far left wants to make all illegals--legal and are right now applauding Obama's action. Again no one representing the middle ground.

Where does all this division come from? Rush Limbaugh--Fox News--and MSNBC and left wing talk radio who's sole purpose is to rile up and send the far left and far right into hysterical frenzies, with half truths and distortions. Who's listening to these extreme people. Obviously Democrats and Republicans.

What did the Senate and House do. The Democrats elected Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi to now be the minority leaders, and Republicans are stuck with Mitch McConnell for the senate--and of course John Boehner. And we wonder why nothing ever changes. We wonder why Democrats can no longer work with Republicans and visa versa. And they wonder why congress's approval ratings are so low.

The words bi-partisan and comprehensive do NOT equate to good.....

Understand?

 

[pismoe]

build the WALL 'PMHouse' , land owners can be compensated under Eminent Domain . While I don't like Eminent Domain I approve in this case same as I woulda approved when the Rail roads and some military bases were built . Still , Iceweasels info is good for people to know and absorb , imo !!

 

[PaintMyHouse]

build the WALL 'PMHouse' , land owners can be compensated under Eminent Domain . While I don't like Eminent Domain I approve in this case same as I woulda approved when the Rail roads and some military bases were built . Still , Iceweasels info is good for people to know and absorb , imo !!

Good to know you're all for taking the land that belongs to others.

 

[Harry Dresden]

To OP: they have to because gerrymandering has rendered elections irrelevant in 80% + of elections.

really?......when i get a ballet it has everyones name on it.....how does that render it irrelevant?...

 

[Harry Dresden]

Are you a chocolate oreo today or a vanilla oreo?

saw a new one today....Red.....

 

[pismoe]

we did it for Railroads and some military bases , why not for a wall that enhances American sovereignty and security 'PMHouse' ??

 

[Mojo2]

The Federal Government today is so non-functional it's actually nauseating. For the last 6 years democrats refuse to work with republicans, republicans refuse to work with democrats. We have the far left trying to control the majority and the far right trying to control the majority--and NO ONE is left representing the middle--which are the overwhelming majority of this nation.

Immigration is a perfect example: There was a bi-partisan immigration bill sitting in congress that house Republican John Boehner refused to put on the floor for a vote. Democrat senate majority leader Harry Reid has stashed Republican bills in his lower file cabinet during the last 4 years refusing those to come to a vote on the senate floor. Obama ropes a dopes a Republicans again by signing an executive order on immigration, egging on Republicans--then we have Ted Cruz (doing the expected) getting on the microphone to announce--(If I were Mitch McConnell) I would tell Obama we're not going to allow any vote on any appointment he makes, if he does this.

Now the majority of this nation, including Republicans want a comprehensive immigration bill--but the far right--the minut minority of the Republican party wants to send them all back to nothing. The far left wants to make all illegals--legal and are right now applauding Obama's action. Again no one representing the middle ground.

Where does all this division come from? Rush Limbaugh--Fox News--and MSNBC and left wing talk radio who's sole purpose is to rile up and send the far left and far right into hysterical frenzies, with half truths and distortions. Who's listening to these extreme people. Obviously Democrats and Republicans.

What did the Senate and House do. The Democrats elected Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi to now be the minority leaders, and Republicans are stuck with Mitch McConnell for the senate--and of course John Boehner. And we wonder why nothing ever changes. We wonder why Democrats can no longer work with Republicans and visa versa. And they wonder why congress's approval ratings are so low.

I think we should make it clear that both sides are not equally culpable in the situation we are in.

it is overwhelmingly the fault of Liberals and Progressives who deserve greater scrutiny for irresponsible, self-serving and immature representation in Washington.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Whichever party can forget the politics and start working FOR THE PEOPLE get my vote. I want the economy, jobs, a border, fewer people on welfare, Obamacare fixed. Those are the priorities I want to be done. I don't think I am alone.

i can go with that......the tough part will be finding that Party.....but they have to be out there somewhere......right?......

 

[PaintMyHouse]

we did it for Railroads and some military bases , why not for a wall that enhances American sovereignty and security 'PMHouse' ??

Well you certainly can, just don't pretend that to you support private property, when you clearly don't.

 

[Darkwind]

build the WALL 'PMHouse' , land owners can be compensated under Eminent Domain . While I don't like Eminent Domain I approve in this case same as I woulda approved when the Rail roads and some military bases were built . Still , Iceweasels info is good for people to know and absorb , imo !!

Good to know you're all for taking the land that belongs to others.

Well, look at you.. Pretending to care about private property rights.

The wall need not be built on an American's property owners land at all.

 

[pismoe]

course I support Private Property that border jumpers constantly violate 'PMHouse' , that border jumping needs to be fixed as its ruining the whole country .

 

[Darkwind]

Whichever party can forget the politics and start working FOR THE PEOPLE get my vote. I want the economy, jobs, a border, fewer people on welfare, Obamacare fixed. Those are the priorities I want to be done. I don't think I am alone.

i can go with that......the tough part will be finding that Party.....but they have to be out there somewhere......right?......

Not until we can manage to get free and open elections there isn't.