Should we raise the Debt Ceiling?

[Truthmatters]

Some idiots dont realize that government is what the founders left us.

 

[loosecannon]

No. Don't raise it. It's called a ceiling for a reason, we're not supposed to go through it.

I would love to see a nasty showdown on the Hill about this. It'll separate the men from the boys. We'll see understands it all and who's really serious about this.

The Sad truth is if they do not raise it, there will be big problems.

so another teatard is now rolling back his pre election rhetoric and falling squarely in line with Obama, Pelosi, Reid and Krugman......

so sad.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Some idiots dont realize that government is what the founders left us.

the government we have today is NOT the government the founders left us but rather a bloated, mutated, bastardized abomination.

 

[loosecannon]

a lot happened. the economy crashed and unemployment went up which cut revenues. but that was on top of running two wars while cutting taxes for the first time in history.

now they refuse to restore taxes and want to use the deficit as a reason to destroy the new deal programs that they've hated since their inception.

this is 100% true. In reality the repubs want to increase spending overall and esp on their agenda while rolling back spending on the dem agenda.

It's all about buying votes with payola from the public coffers.

But I predict the net result will be that from here on out trillion dollar annual deficits remain regardless of which party occupies the seats of power.

 

[Skull Pilot]

So, in essence, you're saying that the middle class has to thank the government? .

Well according to Hacky Reid. Americans love government

[youtube]gu9YKTbRFzg[/youtube]

Just which Americans is he talking about?

All of them.

Not me. I have no love of government and neither did the founders.

Government is an odious entity that should be considered a necessary evil to be tolerated only as a means to protect individual rights.

 

[Jarhead]

Bullshit.

Primitive governments had nothing to do with "Borders or international relations".

Our government did...from day 1.
and that is all you had to say about my post?
Make reference to primitive governments?
I thoiught this debate was about the US government.

Seriously?

That was part of what our government did.

They also cleared forests, built roads, explored new territory, offered land and help to people who wanted to settle in under populated areas and that's basically just the beginning.

If you actually read the Constitution:

Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Those are VERY BROAD AND CENTRALIZED powers.
-Collect Taxes.
-Provide for the Common Defense.
-Provide for the General Welfare.

Exactly what every government since the beginning of time does. If it does not..it fails quickly.

what are yoiu talking about. I never said that government does not do those things.
I made it clear that government was not designed to support us when we make bad decisions as individuals.
General welfare does not mean..."go ahead and gamble your savings...if you lose we will give it back to you"
It does not mean "go ahead, sign without reading.....we are here to protect you if you missed one of the stipulations"

 

[Jarhead]

Some idiots dont realize that government is what the founders left us.

Actually, I believe we all realize that TM.

But just because you feel it appropriate to expand the use of government does not mean that those that dont believe in that are idiots as you say.

 

[G.T.]

they really live in a fantsy land

Please explain.

As for me..no, do not raise the debt ceiling.

Cut back spending...including SS and medicare overhauls.

We, as Americans, must learn toi suffer for our selfish actions of the past and present...and stop putting the burden of our actions on future generations.

We need to suffer the pains of struggling so we can learn from the actions that got us here.

I am already...and I blame no one but myself...my greed...my desire to have my money make money for me....my desire for the better things in life..

SO yes, I am suffering...and I am OK with it...and I have learned from it.

And to explain...I carved out a high life style for myself and my family.....well, now, I still have those possessions buy not the income to support them...but my income is still above the 250 mark, so I get nada as it pertins to assiatance....so I am struggling to meet my debt...

But I deserve it and learned from it....and I am doing what I need to do to meet my obligatrions.

All of us should....

This a good dude right here

 

[Truthmatters]

I managed to live through this whole mess unscathed.

A little less income but no big deal.

I arranged my life in a way that it was very sustainable.

YOU pay the price for your own mess.

I dont want a Great Depression two because you acted like an asshole

 

[Truthmatters]

"It is the most monumental insanity" - Debt ceiling - Salon.com

Bruce Bartlett is a historian whose résumé includes stints as a domestic policy advisor during the Reagan administration and a Treasury official under George H.W. Bush. He is also the author of the 2006 blockbuster "Impostor: How George W. Bush Bankrupted America and Betrayed the Reagan Legacy." For years, Bartlett has been passionately calling attention to Republican fiscal irresponsibility, and now that the fight over whether to raise the debt ceiling -- and prevent the U.S. government from defaulting on its debts -- is promising to be one of 2011's major political dramas, Salon decided he was the perfect person to bring some clarity to a confusing issue. He spoke with Salon by phone on Wednesday morning.

 

[Revere]

Obama piles up $3T in new debt, and demands Republicans pay for it.

 

[Mr Natural]

Some idiots dont realize that government is what the founders left us.

the government we have today is NOT the government the founders left us but rather a bloated, mutated, bastardized abomination.

Well yeah, back in the day when all we were were a nation of 13 loosely associated colonies with a population of a couple of million and an mostly agarian society.

But here we are today with a massive empire to maintain and a government that has grown exponentially along with a diverse population of over 300 million.

Things change.

 

[Truthmatters]

And the government the founders left us was DESIGNED to grow with the changing American needs and wishes.

They just want to pretend it was NEVER supposed to change from the original document.

IT WAS FUCKING DESIGNED FOR US TO CHANGE AS NEEDED

 

[Revere]

Then amend the Constitution, crybaby.

 

[Truthmatters]

ummm ammend it to do what tainwallow?

 

[Mr Natural]

And the government the founders left us was DESIGNED to grow with the changing American needs and wishes.

They just want to pretend it was NEVER supposed to change from the original document.

IT WAS FUCKING DESIGNED FOR US TO CHANGE AS NEEDED

I wonder how many of the self-professed strict constitutionalists would prefer to live back in the day without the conveniences of modern day life like elctricity, running water, and air conditioning?

 

[Charles_Main]

Thats a good debate for the congress to have. Problem is..they won't have it.

And shutting down the government, as the Republicans want to do..is not that debate.

The Dems don't want it either. How many democratic congressmen do you know of that want to close bases in Europe and Asia? How many are willing to have a discussion about real social security reform? How about ending bailouts? Cutting back entitlement programs? It takes people getting used to the fact that America can't live high on the hog and damn more. We just don't have the money.

We had money, once. Where did it go and why?

Um wrong, we never had the money.

Our government has been spending over 2 times what it takes in for some time now.

In fact it is exactly your attitude shared by Millions of Americans that fuels the Problem. Everyone thinks the US government is made of Money.

The sad truth is we take in only about 1.6 Trillion in Total Revenues a year, and have lately been spending nearly 4 Trillion a year.

 

[Ernie S.]

Bullshit.

Primitive governments had nothing to do with "Borders or international relations".

Our government did...from day 1.
and that is all you had to say about my post?
Make reference to primitive governments?
I thoiught this debate was about the US government.

Seriously?

That was part of what our government did.

They also cleared forests, built roads, explored new territory, offered land and help to people who wanted to settle in under populated areas and that's basically just the beginning.

If you actually read the Constitution:

Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Those are VERY BROAD AND CENTRALIZED powers.
-Collect Taxes.
-Provide for the Common Defense.
-Provide for the General Welfare.

Exactly what every government since the beginning of time does. If it does not..it fails quickly.

What libs fail to comprehend is that it says general welfare, not individual welfare. When the framers talked about general welfare, they were talking about the welfare of everyone, not some plan to feed and house the lazy.

 

[Charles_Main]

And the government the founders left us was DESIGNED to grow with the changing American needs and wishes.

They just want to pretend it was NEVER supposed to change from the original document.

IT WAS FUCKING DESIGNED FOR US TO CHANGE AS NEEDED

I wonder how many of the self-professed strict constitutionalists would prefer to live back in the day without the conveniences of modern day life like electricity, running water, and air conditioning?

Your logic on this one eludes me. So if you are for a accurate interpretation of the Constitution you must be against all modern Progress?

When I hear people make comments like this, I understand why Constitutionalists are smeared so bad. It seems you people have absolutely no idea what it means to be a Constitutionalist.


Constitutionalists are not against changing the Constitution. We are against using unconstitutional Means, like activist judges to change it, Instead of the Process laid out in it, to make changes.

 

[Truthmatters]

Then quit using activist judges for your benifit