Should we lower the minimum wage?

[Dovahkiin]

To zero.

Thank god only a minority believe this, the only thing you'll see is increases, which are happening across the country.

I know.
If we actually repealed the minimum wages laws, you guys would hurt yourselves when you saw things improve.

Useless rhetoric. Please show me a country with a happy labor force without a minimum wage. (And countries with large union participation/heavy regulations don't help your case.)

Are you really that ignorant and don't know the European country's with out a MW law?

Germany just recently implemented one.....

I will give you a hint of the others, the famous socialist country's the libs like to post about.

Funny thing about those european countries.. They tend to have higher union participation, and more regulations. Do you know about maternity leave? Safety regulations?

 

[ScienceRocks]

This will destroy what is left of our middle class. It is retarded and unAmerican.

 

[JimH52]

According to Stump we do. Everyone is making too much money, except of course Stump.

 

[ScienceRocks]

According to Stump we do. Everyone is making too much money, except of course Stump.

The rich want to have it all and work the workers as they do in Africa, Asia and central America...The right seems to believe we should go back to the serf and Baron system.

The minimum wage protects the American worker from this ugly reality.

 

[baileyn45]

According to Stump we do. Everyone is making too much money, except of course Stump.

The rich want to have it all and work the workers as they do in Africa, Asia and central America...The right seems to believe we should go back to the serf and Baron system.

The minimum wage protects the American worker from this ugly reality.

Unfortunately the vast number of americans don't work for the rich. Upper middle class yes but not the !%. I'm not ideologically opposed to the min wage but it does present problems. When you raise costs on small mam and pop organizations some thing else has to go. And the majority of min wage workers are not working for large corps.

The left wants to jump to $15/hr, IMHO that's way too much way too fast.

The problem in this country isn't businesses, it's the oligarchy of big banks and govt. We just pumped trillions into the banks supposedly to provide capital to business. The banks used that money to play the derivatives markets, not only denying those funds to business but also putting us financially in a worse place than we were 10 years ago.

 

[JimH52]

According to Stump we do. Everyone is making too much money, except of course Stump.

The rich want to have it all and work the workers as they do in Africa, Asia and central America...The right seems to believe we should go back to the serf and Baron system.

The minimum wage protects the American worker from this ugly reality.

Unfortunately the vast number of americans don't work for the rich. Upper middle class yes but not the !%. I'm not ideologically opposed to the min wage but it does present problems. When you raise costs on small mam and pop organizations some thing else has to go. And the majority of min wage workers are not working for large corps.

The left wants to jump to $15/hr, IMHO that's way too much way too fast.

The problem in this country isn't businesses, it's the oligarchy of big banks and govt. We just pumped trillions into the banks supposedly to provide capital to business. The banks used that money to play the derivatives markets, not only denying those funds to business but also putting us financially in a worse place than we were 10 years ago.

So the 1%ers screw middle America again. Go Figure?

 

[Boss]

This will destroy what is left of our middle class. It is retarded and unAmerican.

No... Actually, it is YOU who is unAmerican. You are advocating a Marxist-Socialist system that is the diametric opposite of a free market capitalist system. You stand for the very things that we came to America to escape.

There is no "middle class" in America, we don't have a Class System. In OUR system, you have the freedom and liberty to belong to any economic class you desire. It's entirely up to you and your ambitions.

The rich want to have it all and work the workers as they do in Africa, Asia and central America...The right seems to believe we should go back to the serf and Baron system.

The minimum wage protects the American worker from this ugly reality.

Lesson for budding free market conservatives: Whenever one of these morons starts yammering about "the workers" you can rest assured they are indoctrinated in Marxist-Socialism. The ONLY necessary reply to this nonsense is... Then don't BE a Worker! BE something else! Be an inventor, be a creator, be a business owner, be your own boss, be THE boss! In OUR system, you have the freedom and liberty to be whatever you desire. You don't HAVE to be a "worker" if that is undesirable for you.

 

[baileyn45]

According to Stump we do. Everyone is making too much money, except of course Stump.

The rich want to have it all and work the workers as they do in Africa, Asia and central America...The right seems to believe we should go back to the serf and Baron system.

The minimum wage protects the American worker from this ugly reality.

Unfortunately the vast number of americans don't work for the rich. Upper middle class yes but not the !%. I'm not ideologically opposed to the min wage but it does present problems. When you raise costs on small mam and pop organizations some thing else has to go. And the majority of min wage workers are not working for large corps.

The left wants to jump to $15/hr, IMHO that's way too much way too fast.

The problem in this country isn't businesses, it's the oligarchy of big banks and govt. We just pumped trillions into the banks supposedly to provide capital to business. The banks used that money to play the derivatives markets, not only denying those funds to business but also putting us financially in a worse place than we were 10 years ago.

So the 1%ers screw middle America again. Go Figure?

True, but too often businesses that aren't the 1% get lumped in with them. How many min wage workers are working for 1%? I'm guessing not many.

 

[Conservative65]

The poor don't vote. Midterms the richest 30% vote and in general elections 50% of us show up. So we should put this question on the ballot every 2 years. If voters vote yes, your pay at Walmart could go down. So do you think this would get more people to show up and vote? Good idea? If not why not?

To ZERO.

 

[Conservative65]

To zero.

Thank god only a minority believe this, the only thing you'll see is increases, which are happening across the country.

Too many believe that it should be raised. The problem with that is it isn't their money they believe the government should mandate being paid. It's easy to say a business should be required to pay more when it's not the money of those doing the demanding.

 

[Conservative65]

Anyone on the public dole should lose voting privileges until they get off.

Why should leeches be permitted to vote an increase in their free blood supply? Show me the logic.

There is no logic. No one opposing this has yet to explain why someone living off the hard work of others would vote for anyone except those supporting their ability to do so.

 

[Conservative65]

To zero.

Hypothetical scenerio =

Company "A" cannot give a pay increase to their employees, which totals an extra $400,000 dollars to payroll a year.

CEOs only stay at Company "A" for an average of four years, and when they leave they get a seven million dollar severance pay and stock options.

Company "A" will not give their employees a payraise - amounting to an additional $400,00 dollars a year on the payroll, stating business and economy concerns ; but they just give the past three CEOs seven million dollars in severence pay......EACH.....for a total of twenty-one million dollars.

Managers or supervisors at "Company A" get twice yearly bonuses of $5,000 dollars ( twice a year = $10,000 ). Lets just say their are 10 managers / ( slash ) floor supervisors. That is no money to sneeze at.

"Company A" can afford Twenty-One Million dollars for past CEOs, but can't afford $1.2 million for blue collar employee payraises. The Board of Directors, CEO and CFO should be fired on the spot for that foolinshness.

Big business is the greed of American society and is killing America. Big Business is the biggest cheaters and liars on the planet.


"Intel - Detail"


Shadow 355

It's always easy for someone on the outside looking in to see how things should be done. For example, I can see that you are always here posting socialist propaganda and not contributing anything meaningful to society. I can then assume you must be drawing some form of government disability or welfare because you have all this free time... and then I can deduce that we need to cut your internet service so that you can do something more useful, like stuffing envelopes or working in a call center. If you're too lazy to contribute we can then cut off your "entitlements" and see how motivated we can make you.

Now personally, I don't think this is a road you really want to go down because it's not going to end well for you. I think you would rather have the system where we all mind our own business and operate within the law and the constitution.

My job was contracted out.

I lost over $500.00 a month in income.

I now have to pay for my insurance.

I lost three weeks paid vacation. I only get one. The first week I had, I had to pay for it out of my own pocket.

I lost my 401K

I lost my company retirement, and 100% insurance.

I lost my pay differential for grave yard shift.

My job was contracted out. As I was told...to save money - but our boss / manager got to keep his job and six figure salary and other benefits.

Pardon me if I dont cry for your post.

Shadow 355

Why should they pay more to make sure you have a better income? Is that what you do? You pay people more than you need to to make sure they are payed well? Why not start your own company and pay your employees as much as you can?

I have a better idea. Let those who say wages should go up start their own business and let those working for them set the wage.

 

[shadow355]

To zero.

Hypothetical scenerio =

Company "A" cannot give a pay increase to their employees, which totals an extra $400,000 dollars to payroll a year.

CEOs only stay at Company "A" for an average of four years, and when they leave they get a seven million dollar severance pay and stock options.

Company "A" will not give their employees a payraise - amounting to an additional $400,00 dollars a year on the payroll, stating business and economy concerns ; but they just give the past three CEOs seven million dollars in severence pay......EACH.....for a total of twenty-one million dollars.

Managers or supervisors at "Company A" get twice yearly bonuses of $5,000 dollars ( twice a year = $10,000 ). Lets just say their are 10 managers / ( slash ) floor supervisors. That is no money to sneeze at.

"Company A" can afford Twenty-One Million dollars for past CEOs, but can't afford $1.2 million for blue collar employee payraises. The Board of Directors, CEO and CFO should be fired on the spot for that foolinshness.

Big business is the greed of American society and is killing America. Big Business is the biggest cheaters and liars on the planet.


"Intel - Detail"


Shadow 355

It's always easy for someone on the outside looking in to see how things should be done. For example, I can see that you are always here posting socialist propaganda and not contributing anything meaningful to society. I can then assume you must be drawing some form of government disability or welfare because you have all this free time... and then I can deduce that we need to cut your internet service so that you can do something more useful, like stuffing envelopes or working in a call center. If you're too lazy to contribute we can then cut off your "entitlements" and see how motivated we can make you.

Now personally, I don't think this is a road you really want to go down because it's not going to end well for you. I think you would rather have the system where we all mind our own business and operate within the law and the constitution.

My job was contracted out.

I lost over $500.00 a month in income.

I now have to pay for my insurance.

I lost three weeks paid vacation. I only get one. The first week I had, I had to pay for it out of my own pocket.

I lost my 401K

I lost my company retirement, and 100% insurance.

I lost my pay differential for grave yard shift.

My job was contracted out. As I was told...to save money - but our boss / manager got to keep his job and six figure salary and other benefits.

Pardon me if I dont cry for your post.

Shadow 355

Why should they pay more to make sure you have a better income? Is that what you do? You pay people more than you need to to make sure they are payed well? Why not start your own company and pay your employees as much as you can?

I have a better idea. Let those who say wages should go up start their own business and let those working for them set the wage.

You are missing the point. Big business and greed.

I was not talking about small business.

Shadow 355

 

[Boss]

You are missing the point. Big business and greed.

I was not talking about small business.

Shadow 355

But you're supporting policy which punishes small business and helps the big corporations. You've been brainwashed into believing there is some alarming "wealth disparity" problem we need to fix by "raising taxes on the rich" when it's mostly small businesses filing individual tax returns who you are taxing. At the same time, your elected politicians are feverishly writing more loopholes and bailouts for their chosen crony corporatists who've donated to their political campaigns.

True free market capitalists are not greedy. They can't afford to be greedy because there is always another less greedy free market capitalist who is willing to take their business. The people you are talking about are the crony corporatists and if you look at Hillary Clinton's FEC campaign donors page, you will find most of them have donated huge amounts to her campaign. But you don't care because you've been brainwashed by Socialist Marxists.

Wealth disparity happens as a necessary consequence of free market capitalism. The rich get richer at a faster rate than the poor and they always will in a free market system. Imagine wealth acquisition as a marathon race where you have marathoners who are seasoned pros, some who are enthusiastic novices and many who are couch potatoes. Who is going to gain ground faster in the course of the marathon? Is there ever going to be a point where the couch potatoes are gaining ground on the pros? No, of course they're not, that's silly. So... your solution to this "problem" is to hobble the pros!

While it's not a real "problem" that needs a solution, my view is that it's better to motivate the couch potatoes, train them up and make them better competitors. Let the pros mentor the enthusiasts, let the enthusiasts set an example for the couch potatoes. You won't ever solve wealth disparity because it will naturally happen as a result of free market capitalism, but at least the couch potatoes are surviving. Hobbling the pros ends up with everyone on the couch eating potato chips and no one wins the marathon.

 

[Conservative65]

Hypothetical scenerio =

Company "A" cannot give a pay increase to their employees, which totals an extra $400,000 dollars to payroll a year.

CEOs only stay at Company "A" for an average of four years, and when they leave they get a seven million dollar severance pay and stock options.

Company "A" will not give their employees a payraise - amounting to an additional $400,00 dollars a year on the payroll, stating business and economy concerns ; but they just give the past three CEOs seven million dollars in severence pay......EACH.....for a total of twenty-one million dollars.

Managers or supervisors at "Company A" get twice yearly bonuses of $5,000 dollars ( twice a year = $10,000 ). Lets just say their are 10 managers / ( slash ) floor supervisors. That is no money to sneeze at.

"Company A" can afford Twenty-One Million dollars for past CEOs, but can't afford $1.2 million for blue collar employee payraises. The Board of Directors, CEO and CFO should be fired on the spot for that foolinshness.

Big business is the greed of American society and is killing America. Big Business is the biggest cheaters and liars on the planet.


"Intel - Detail"


Shadow 355

It's always easy for someone on the outside looking in to see how things should be done. For example, I can see that you are always here posting socialist propaganda and not contributing anything meaningful to society. I can then assume you must be drawing some form of government disability or welfare because you have all this free time... and then I can deduce that we need to cut your internet service so that you can do something more useful, like stuffing envelopes or working in a call center. If you're too lazy to contribute we can then cut off your "entitlements" and see how motivated we can make you.

Now personally, I don't think this is a road you really want to go down because it's not going to end well for you. I think you would rather have the system where we all mind our own business and operate within the law and the constitution.

My job was contracted out.

I lost over $500.00 a month in income.

I now have to pay for my insurance.

I lost three weeks paid vacation. I only get one. The first week I had, I had to pay for it out of my own pocket.

I lost my 401K

I lost my company retirement, and 100% insurance.

I lost my pay differential for grave yard shift.

My job was contracted out. As I was told...to save money - but our boss / manager got to keep his job and six figure salary and other benefits.

Pardon me if I dont cry for your post.

Shadow 355

Why should they pay more to make sure you have a better income? Is that what you do? You pay people more than you need to to make sure they are payed well? Why not start your own company and pay your employees as much as you can?

I have a better idea. Let those who say wages should go up start their own business and let those working for them set the wage.

You are missing the point. Big business and greed.

I was not talking about small business.

Shadow 355

If the minimum wage goes up, it goes up on all.

If a big business, whatever the hell you define that as, is paying someone with $8/hr skills $8/hr, no problem. No greed there.

 

[shadow355]

It's always easy for someone on the outside looking in to see how things should be done. For example, I can see that you are always here posting socialist propaganda and not contributing anything meaningful to society. I can then assume you must be drawing some form of government disability or welfare because you have all this free time... and then I can deduce that we need to cut your internet service so that you can do something more useful, like stuffing envelopes or working in a call center. If you're too lazy to contribute we can then cut off your "entitlements" and see how motivated we can make you.

Now personally, I don't think this is a road you really want to go down because it's not going to end well for you. I think you would rather have the system where we all mind our own business and operate within the law and the constitution.

My job was contracted out.

I lost over $500.00 a month in income.

I now have to pay for my insurance.

I lost three weeks paid vacation. I only get one. The first week I had, I had to pay for it out of my own pocket.

I lost my 401K

I lost my company retirement, and 100% insurance.

I lost my pay differential for grave yard shift.

My job was contracted out. As I was told...to save money - but our boss / manager got to keep his job and six figure salary and other benefits.

Pardon me if I dont cry for your post.

Shadow 355

Why should they pay more to make sure you have a better income? Is that what you do? You pay people more than you need to to make sure they are payed well? Why not start your own company and pay your employees as much as you can?

I have a better idea. Let those who say wages should go up start their own business and let those working for them set the wage.

You are missing the point. Big business and greed.

I was not talking about small business.

Shadow 355

If the minimum wage goes up, it goes up on all.

If a big business, whatever the hell you define that as, is paying someone with $8/hr skills $8/hr, no problem. No greed there.

$8.00 an hour .

Manufacturing or producing a product that makes them millions .

Shadow 355

 

[Boss]

Manufacturing or producing a product that makes them millions .

But you cannot look at it in those terms. Recently some liberal moron in Seattle announced that he would pay all employees $70k per year, the same as his salary... everyone making the same amount... all working for the same goals and objectives. Liberals all over the country lauded his idea! This was how things were supposed to work! This was fairness!

It took less than 90 days for him to announce the company was in financial trouble and he could not continue the plan. It was an interesting experiment and it demonstrated some of the unintended consequences of a "fair for all" scheme. There was jealousy among the ranks because some felt they were being cheated, some were making as much as them but weren't doing as much of the work. Some didn't understand how one employee was making $70k after only being there a few months while they had been there for years. Once the checks started flowing, some became complacent and didn't really want to work much anymore... they had big plans for the weekend, boats and cars to buy, vacations to go on... work was no longer a big priority and their production declined.

As economic systems go, you cannot have both freedom and fairness. Whenever you attempt to make things fair for all, you have to limit and restrict freedom for some. You end up with a system like that of North Korea. No one has anything much... but it's completely fair. You see, you can't have freedom because that creates unfairness and contempt. To keep everyone content in fairness you must limit freedom because it breeds discontent.

This is why Socialism ultimately fails and free market capitalism is the greatest system ever devised by man. It has created more millionaires and billionaires than anything man has ever come up with. Equal opportunity is as close as you can come to absolute fairness in a free and open society.

 

[shadow355]

Manufacturing or producing a product that makes them millions .

But you cannot look at it in those terms. Recently some liberal moron in Seattle announced that he would pay all employees $70k per year, the same as his salary... everyone making the same amount... all working for the same goals and objectives. Liberals all over the country lauded his idea! This was how things were supposed to work! This was fairness!

It took less than 90 days for him to announce the company was in financial trouble and he could not continue the plan. It was an interesting experiment and it demonstrated some of the unintended consequences of a "fair for all" scheme. There was jealousy among the ranks because some felt they were being cheated, some were making as much as them but weren't doing as much of the work. Some didn't understand how one employee was making $70k after only being there a few months while they had been there for years. Once the checks started flowing, some became complacent and didn't really want to work much anymore... they had big plans for the weekend, boats and cars to buy, vacations to go on... work was no longer a big priority and their production declined.

As economic systems go, you cannot have both freedom and fairness. Whenever you attempt to make things fair for all, you have to limit and restrict freedom for some. You end up with a system like that of North Korea. No one has anything much... but it's completely fair. You see, you can't have freedom because that creates unfairness and contempt. To keep everyone content in fairness you must limit freedom because it breeds discontent.

This is why Socialism ultimately fails and free market capitalism is the greatest system ever devised by man. It has created more millionaires and billionaires than anything man has ever come up with. Equal opportunity is as close as you can come to absolute fairness in a free and open society.

I made my reasons known.

I will not debate further .

Shadow 355

 

[Boss]

Manufacturing or producing a product that makes them millions .

But you cannot look at it in those terms. Recently some liberal moron in Seattle announced that he would pay all employees $70k per year, the same as his salary... everyone making the same amount... all working for the same goals and objectives. Liberals all over the country lauded his idea! This was how things were supposed to work! This was fairness!

It took less than 90 days for him to announce the company was in financial trouble and he could not continue the plan. It was an interesting experiment and it demonstrated some of the unintended consequences of a "fair for all" scheme. There was jealousy among the ranks because some felt they were being cheated, some were making as much as them but weren't doing as much of the work. Some didn't understand how one employee was making $70k after only being there a few months while they had been there for years. Once the checks started flowing, some became complacent and didn't really want to work much anymore... they had big plans for the weekend, boats and cars to buy, vacations to go on... work was no longer a big priority and their production declined.

As economic systems go, you cannot have both freedom and fairness. Whenever you attempt to make things fair for all, you have to limit and restrict freedom for some. You end up with a system like that of North Korea. No one has anything much... but it's completely fair. You see, you can't have freedom because that creates unfairness and contempt. To keep everyone content in fairness you must limit freedom because it breeds discontent.

This is why Socialism ultimately fails and free market capitalism is the greatest system ever devised by man. It has created more millionaires and billionaires than anything man has ever come up with. Equal opportunity is as close as you can come to absolute fairness in a free and open society.

I made my reasons known.

I will not debate further .

Shadow 355

Well, but your reason was because you got screwed over by a big corporation. Guess what? It happens to good people every single day. You don't want to know how many times I've been fucked in the ass by big corporations. There is no doubt in my mind I would have about 100x the wealth if not for the actions of big corporations. And here is something else... I've been a big corporation and there were bigger corporations who screwed me as well. Some of them probably had a bigger corporation screw them.

Corporatists are a problem and Socialists exploit them to promote Marxism but the Corporatists are not free market capitalists, they are exploiting them. Corporatists do more damage to small business and free market capitalism and in a more efficient way than the Marxist Socialist. But it is very important to not confuse a Corporatist with a free market capitalist.

A Corporatist doesn't play by free market capitalist rules. They use money to influence political power to leverage an advantage over competition. That is not free market principles.

 

[Conservative65]

My job was contracted out.

I lost over $500.00 a month in income.

I now have to pay for my insurance.

I lost three weeks paid vacation. I only get one. The first week I had, I had to pay for it out of my own pocket.

I lost my 401K

I lost my company retirement, and 100% insurance.

I lost my pay differential for grave yard shift.

My job was contracted out. As I was told...to save money - but our boss / manager got to keep his job and six figure salary and other benefits.

Pardon me if I dont cry for your post.

Shadow 355

Why should they pay more to make sure you have a better income? Is that what you do? You pay people more than you need to to make sure they are payed well? Why not start your own company and pay your employees as much as you can?

I have a better idea. Let those who say wages should go up start their own business and let those working for them set the wage.

You are missing the point. Big business and greed.

I was not talking about small business.

Shadow 355

If the minimum wage goes up, it goes up on all.

If a big business, whatever the hell you define that as, is paying someone with $8/hr skills $8/hr, no problem. No greed there.

$8.00 an hour .

Manufacturing or producing a product that makes them millions .

Shadow 355

Who said it was manufacturing?