Should They Sue?

[Madeline]

We put down a deposit on a house in Cape May, NJ this past summer. We stayed there once before, great house, great location. A few days before our scheduled vacation we get an e-mail from the owners. The first floor of the house flooded because the water heater broke. They offered us a duplex in North Wildwood for $300 less. We decided to take their offer, as it was too late to get anything else. The duplex was small, uncomfortable, not as clean as the other place and not in the location we wanted. So, we should sue because our vacation wasn't what we expected? Please. They offered a compensation and even though it wasn't what we had originally planned and we didn't have as good a time this year, it certainly didn't ruin our life. And the situation wasn't anything the owner's could remedy within the time frame given.

You know, sometimes shits happens - - - things beyond our control, shit breaks. That's life. Doesn't mean go off and sue someone.

An offer of a free cruise in future will not make most of them whole -- they may not wish to take another cruise, or they may not be able to reassemble the family they had with them, or they may not be able to get time off work.

wtf? Carnival offer a refund and another cruise. The ship broke in the middle of the ocean and couldn't be fixed until towed back in. What exactly were they suppose to do? Like I said, sometimes shit happens. Ruin their life? Give me a break.

"Shit happens"? That's your answer? You Big Business worshippers just astound me. This boat was not struck by some unforeseeable event -- it has a design flaw and/or safety procedures were inadequate or not followed. Passengers have been injured. I have pointed out that to some people, the trauma may be permanent and I'd suspect few will ever set foot on another cruise ship (certainly not one owned by Carnival). Doubtless there are people aboard to whom this trip was very meaningful and who cannot recreate their window of opportunity to re-take it, for various reasons.

Your comparison between the homeowner in New Jersey and the multi-national conglomerate that owns Carnival is amusing but off-point. The homeowners did not commission the design of the hot water heater and did not induce you and your family to enter the premises, assure that you could not leave, and then trap you in a dangerous, unsanitary and wretched set of circumstances for any length of time. If you keep thinking that no corporation is ever responsible when it makes a mistake through negligence or malfeasance, Zoom-boing, you will help to create a group-think in this country that encourages recklessness by corporations.

Without plaintiffs' lawyers, we would not have safe cars, safe drugs, safe baby toys, etc. We owe them and their clients a deep gratitude that most of us have been brain washed by Big Business into altering to hostility.

 

[Mini 14]

The problem isn't that corporations aren't ever liable, its that they aren't ALWAYS liable, counselor.

If I lose a legal case, why can't I automatically sue the firm and the lawyer who represented me, based solely on the fact that I lost?

I didn't hire you to LOSE the case for me, and you didn't deliver what I paid for.

What's the difference? You have no control of the judge and the jury? Things happen?

Are you aware that no machinery has EVER been 100% reliable and immune to failure?

 

[dilloduck]

You got your lawyers who chase ambulances and you got your lawyers who chase cruise ships.
I'm sure they will all work pro bono too.

 

[Madeline]

The problem isn't that corporations aren't ever liable, its that they aren't ALWAYS liable, counselor.

If I lose a legal case, why can't I automatically sue the firm and the lawyer who represented me, based solely on the fact that I lost?

I didn't hire you to LOSE the case for me, and you didn't deliver what I paid for.

What's the difference? You have no control of the judge and the jury? Things happen?

Are you aware that no machinery has EVER been 100% reliable and immune to failure?

As I have said, the law imposes the very highest standard of care on common carriers, Mini. Mechanical failure is not going to insulate them from liability, and I do not think it should. If this had been a crashed airplane rather than a stranded cruise ship, would you still be bending yourself into a pretzel in an effort to excuse the company?

As for the plaintiffs' bar, you realize there is no fee owed unless the client wins? None at all, not even the costs of preparing the case for trial (which is frequently many times the cost of actually trying it). The US plaintiffs' bar routinely risks its own fortunes to seek justice for others.

Talk about putting your money where your mouth is....when's the last time you risked all you have to seek justice for a neighbor? "Never" would be my guess.

Plaintiffs' lawyers do it every day, and without them, the quantum of justice in most people's lives would be far less....and all of us would be using far more dangerous products. Didn't I see you on bones' thread about the Remington 700's design flaws, and the deaths and maiming they have caused? And didn't you advocate there that the injured should sue?

Where do you think the lawyers to bring such suits come from? Santa Claus?

 

[Mini 14]

The boat isn't even back in port, and you're already looking for the angles to sue.

And you wonder why regular people think lawyers are scum?

The People rest, your Honor.

 

[martybegan]

"Brass ring"? So IYO, only greedy people sue? What about those who have been injured and cannot be healed. I know this would traumatize me. Have you stopped to consider what these passengers are going through? What happens to people with diabetes, whose insulin could not be kept cool? Without electricity, what medical care is possible?

I am just amazed at the hostility towards your neighbor and shameless corporate worship that seems to motivate those of you who are hostile to tort law suits. Apparently IYO, the corporations should NEVER be held responsible and a good American just absorbs the consequences of their greed, incompetence or error, no matter how badly he may be injured?

And how many have died/been injured as a result?

Are you speculating, salivating for a death so someone will have a real payday?

Death or not, there will be no lawsuits from this. That is because Carnival is stepping up and assuming responsibility. If/when someone dies from a lack of insulin, Carnival will mediate and pay. Sure, some lawyer scum is going to make a buck off of it, most probably more than what the true damages are, but your salivating desire to see legal carnage come from this isn't going to happen. No matter how much you wish the "evil corporation" responsible would act like Torquemada, they have done nothing but the right thing from the start, and have shown nothing but a willingness to make this right by their customers.

Sure, lawyers will file suits.

Carnival is smarter than the lawyers (aren't we all?) so they will settle without a verdict.

I dun know what you do for a living Mini, but I daresay if I described all the members of your profession as "scum" you'd be offended. This cruise line bought a poorly-designed boat and offered berths for sale to the public, who is in no way equipped to measure a boat's safety and trusted the corporation to have done right by its customers. That trust has been abused. People have suffered -- at a minimum, because they did not get what they bargained for and because they have been subjected to extremely harsh conditions.

It is annoying and dishonest to suggest I hope a passenger dies, when I was pointing out they are at risk due to Carnival's failures. I hope everyone makes it back to shore safely, just as I am sure you do. The difference between you and I seems to be, I crave Justice while you prefer the American public underwrite the total costs of Big Business's fuck ups which cause injuries to us, regardless of how patently obvious it may be that Big Business is at fault.

Where is your source for this design flaw. Ive done some searching and all I can find is a fire in the engine room, which was sucessfully put out.

As an Engineer I know you need all the information before figuring out what happened. I also know that despite the best maintenance practices and design review things just break sometimes. Again we need to know what exactly failed to figure out what happened.

As for people with medical needs, there is a USN Carrier nearby, as well as a US CG cutter in escort. I'm sure any person with a medical issue can be medevac'd for treatment.

Does it suck that this happened? Yes. Is the event worth a 200k pain and suffering lawsuit to some person forced to eat spam for 3 days? I don't think so.

 

[Madeline]

And how many have died/been injured as a result?

Are you speculating, salivating for a death so someone will have a real payday?

Death or not, there will be no lawsuits from this. That is because Carnival is stepping up and assuming responsibility. If/when someone dies from a lack of insulin, Carnival will mediate and pay. Sure, some lawyer scum is going to make a buck off of it, most probably more than what the true damages are, but your salivating desire to see legal carnage come from this isn't going to happen. No matter how much you wish the "evil corporation" responsible would act like Torquemada, they have done nothing but the right thing from the start, and have shown nothing but a willingness to make this right by their customers.

Sure, lawyers will file suits.

Carnival is smarter than the lawyers (aren't we all?) so they will settle without a verdict.

I dun know what you do for a living Mini, but I daresay if I described all the members of your profession as "scum" you'd be offended. This cruise line bought a poorly-designed boat and offered berths for sale to the public, who is in no way equipped to measure a boat's safety and trusted the corporation to have done right by its customers. That trust has been abused. People have suffered -- at a minimum, because they did not get what they bargained for and because they have been subjected to extremely harsh conditions.

It is annoying and dishonest to suggest I hope a passenger dies, when I was pointing out they are at risk due to Carnival's failures. I hope everyone makes it back to shore safely, just as I am sure you do. The difference between you and I seems to be, I crave Justice while you prefer the American public underwrite the total costs of Big Business's fuck ups which cause injuries to us, regardless of how patently obvious it may be that Big Business is at fault.

Where is your source for this design flaw. Ive done some searching and all I can find is a fire in the engine room, which was sucessfully put out.

As an Engineer I know you need all the information before figuring out what happened. I also know that despite the best maintenance practices and design review things just break sometimes. Again we need to know what exactly failed to figure out what happened.

As for people with medical needs, there is a USN Carrier nearby, as well as a US CG cutter in escort. I'm sure any person with a medical issue can be medevac'd for treatment.

Does it suck that this happened? Yes. Is the event worth a 200k pain and suffering lawsuit to some person forced to eat spam for 3 days? I don't think so.

And who is paying for the USN carrier and the medevac services, martybegan? Not Carnival -- you and I. Yes, things sometimes break, but when their proper operation is a matter of human life, there are supposed to be back up mechanisms adequate to prevent operational failure.

With your "devil may care" attitude I'm grateful you aren't running a nuclear power plant -- or repairing elevators.

 

[Madeline]

The boat isn't even back in port, and you're already looking for the angles to sue.

And you wonder why regular people think lawyers are scum?

The People rest, your Honor.

What will I know the day it docks that is essential to determining whether Carnival is liable, Mini? What nugget of data am I now missing that makes analysis of this story premature?

And since when are lawyers less than "regular people"?

 

[dilloduck]

The boat isn't even back in port, and you're already looking for the angles to sue.

And you wonder why regular people think lawyers are scum?

The People rest, your Honor.

What will I know the day it docks that is essential to determining whether Carnival is liable, Mini? What nugget of data am I now missing that makes analysis of this story premature?

And since when are lawyers less than "regular people"?

at least since Shakespeare's day.

 

[Mini 14]

The boat isn't even back in port, and you're already looking for the angles to sue.

And you wonder why regular people think lawyers are scum?

The People rest, your Honor.

What will I know the day it docks that is essential to determining whether Carnival is liable, Mini? What nugget of data am I now missing that makes analysis of this story premature?

And since when are lawyers less than "regular people"?

Nothing, I'm sure, counselor.

You obviously already have all the facts.

Why wait for it to get to port? Why not take the corporate chopper, go land on the Liner, and start collecting the retainers? Time is wasting, counselor! When they get back to port, they're going to start talking.......

possibly to OTHER lawyers!

(Oh, the horror!!!!!!)

 

[dilloduck]

The boat isn't even back in port, and you're already looking for the angles to sue.

And you wonder why regular people think lawyers are scum?

The People rest, your Honor.

What will I know the day it docks that is essential to determining whether Carnival is liable, Mini? What nugget of data am I now missing that makes analysis of this story premature?

And since when are lawyers less than "regular people"?

Nothing, I'm sure, counselor.

You obviously already have all the facts.

Why wait for it to get to port? Why not take the corporate chopper, go land on the Liner, and start collecting the retainers? Time is wasting, counselor! When they get back to port, they're going to start talking.......

possibly to OTHER lawyers!

(Oh, the horror!!!!!!)

Seriously---if you REALLY cared you would already be taking their money. Hop to it!

 

[mudwhistle]

SAN DIEGO -- The nearly 4,500 passengers and crew of the Carnival Splendor have no air conditioning or hot water. Running low on food, they have to eat canned crab meat and Spam dropped in by helicopters. And it will be a long, slow ride before they're home.
What began as a seven-day cruise to the picturesque Mexican Riviera stopped around sunrise Monday when an engine-room fire cut power to the 952-foot vessel and set it adrift off Mexico's Pacific coast.

The 3,299 passengers and 1,167 crew members were not hurt, and the fire was put out in the generator's compartment, but the ship had no air conditioning, hot water, cell phone or Internet service.

After the fire, passengers were first asked to move from their cabins to the ship's upper deck, but eventually allowed to go back. The ship's auxiliary power allowed for toilets and cold running water.

Bottled water and cold food were provided, the company said.

The ship began moving again Tuesday night after the first of several Mexican tugboats en route to the stricken liner began pulling it toward San Diego, where it was expected to arrive Thursday night, Carnival Cruise Lines said in a statement.

Stuck on crippled liner, eating Spam, with no Internet service, cruise passengers are towed to U.S. | cleveland.com

I am curious if the tort reformers around here think the passengers of this ship have a right to sue, and if so, should they exercise it?

I'm betting the answer from many will be "no", in which case I have a final question: are there ANY torts (bad acts or negligent acts that cause harm) you feel a plaintiff should sue over?

I wonder if they signed a release before they boarded.

 

[dilloduck]

SAN DIEGO -- The nearly 4,500 passengers and crew of the Carnival Splendor have no air conditioning or hot water. Running low on food, they have to eat canned crab meat and Spam dropped in by helicopters. And it will be a long, slow ride before they're home.
What began as a seven-day cruise to the picturesque Mexican Riviera stopped around sunrise Monday when an engine-room fire cut power to the 952-foot vessel and set it adrift off Mexico's Pacific coast.

The 3,299 passengers and 1,167 crew members were not hurt, and the fire was put out in the generator's compartment, but the ship had no air conditioning, hot water, cell phone or Internet service.

After the fire, passengers were first asked to move from their cabins to the ship's upper deck, but eventually allowed to go back. The ship's auxiliary power allowed for toilets and cold running water.

Bottled water and cold food were provided, the company said.

The ship began moving again Tuesday night after the first of several Mexican tugboats en route to the stricken liner began pulling it toward San Diego, where it was expected to arrive Thursday night, Carnival Cruise Lines said in a statement.

Stuck on crippled liner, eating Spam, with no Internet service, cruise passengers are towed to U.S. | cleveland.com

I am curious if the tort reformers around here think the passengers of this ship have a right to sue, and if so, should they exercise it?

I'm betting the answer from many will be "no", in which case I have a final question: are there ANY torts (bad acts or negligent acts that cause harm) you feel a plaintiff should sue over?

I wonder if they signed a release before they boarded.

HUH ? You mean the cruise ships have lawyers too ? oh the humanity

 

[Madeline]

SAN DIEGO -- The nearly 4,500 passengers and crew of the Carnival Splendor have no air conditioning or hot water. Running low on food, they have to eat canned crab meat and Spam dropped in by helicopters. And it will be a long, slow ride before they're home.
What began as a seven-day cruise to the picturesque Mexican Riviera stopped around sunrise Monday when an engine-room fire cut power to the 952-foot vessel and set it adrift off Mexico's Pacific coast.

The 3,299 passengers and 1,167 crew members were not hurt, and the fire was put out in the generator's compartment, but the ship had no air conditioning, hot water, cell phone or Internet service.

After the fire, passengers were first asked to move from their cabins to the ship's upper deck, but eventually allowed to go back. The ship's auxiliary power allowed for toilets and cold running water.

Bottled water and cold food were provided, the company said.

The ship began moving again Tuesday night after the first of several Mexican tugboats en route to the stricken liner began pulling it toward San Diego, where it was expected to arrive Thursday night, Carnival Cruise Lines said in a statement.

Stuck on crippled liner, eating Spam, with no Internet service, cruise passengers are towed to U.S. | cleveland.com

I am curious if the tort reformers around here think the passengers of this ship have a right to sue, and if so, should they exercise it?

I'm betting the answer from many will be "no", in which case I have a final question: are there ANY torts (bad acts or negligent acts that cause harm) you feel a plaintiff should sue over?

I wonder if they signed a release before they boarded.

Would you get on if a release was demanded of you before boarding?

 

[Madeline]

Stuck on crippled liner, eating Spam, with no Internet service, cruise passengers are towed to U.S. | cleveland.com

I am curious if the tort reformers around here think the passengers of this ship have a right to sue, and if so, should they exercise it?

I'm betting the answer from many will be "no", in which case I have a final question: are there ANY torts (bad acts or negligent acts that cause harm) you feel a plaintiff should sue over?

I wonder if they signed a release before they boarded.

HUH ? You mean the cruise ships have lawyers too ? oh the humanity

Yes, but those are corporate defense lawyers. You worship them along with their corporate masters, donca?

It's just the Average Joe's lawyer you despise.

 

[xotoxi]

The only people who should sue are those who were permanently damaged from their experience.

Everyone else should just consider it an unexpected camping trip, and be happy with the refund and the free replacement trip.

 

[mudwhistle]

Stuck on crippled liner, eating Spam, with no Internet service, cruise passengers are towed to U.S. | cleveland.com

I am curious if the tort reformers around here think the passengers of this ship have a right to sue, and if so, should they exercise it?

I'm betting the answer from many will be "no", in which case I have a final question: are there ANY torts (bad acts or negligent acts that cause harm) you feel a plaintiff should sue over?

I wonder if they signed a release before they boarded.

Would you get on if a release was demanded of you before boarding?

Fuck no....but I'm not stupid enough to trust anyone with my life after what I went through in the military. I would never board the thing.

 

[editec]

Don't sue.

Keelhaul the Captain.

Sea justice---it's hard but fair.

 

[dilloduck]

I wonder if they signed a release before they boarded.

HUH ? You mean the cruise ships have lawyers too ? oh the humanity

Yes, but those are corporate defense lawyers. You worship them along with their corporate masters, donca?

It's just the Average Joe's lawyer you despise.

Average Joe lawyers would give their right arm to be a corporate lawyer.
Still thinking about working pro bono cause you care so much ?

 

[Zoom-boing]

We put down a deposit on a house in Cape May, NJ this past summer. We stayed there once before, great house, great location. A few days before our scheduled vacation we get an e-mail from the owners. The first floor of the house flooded because the water heater broke. They offered us a duplex in North Wildwood for $300 less. We decided to take their offer, as it was too late to get anything else. The duplex was small, uncomfortable, not as clean as the other place and not in the location we wanted. So, we should sue because our vacation wasn't what we expected? Please. They offered a compensation and even though it wasn't what we had originally planned and we didn't have as good a time this year, it certainly didn't ruin our life. And the situation wasn't anything the owner's could remedy within the time frame given.

You know, sometimes shits happens - - - things beyond our control, shit breaks. That's life. Doesn't mean go off and sue someone.

An offer of a free cruise in future will not make most of them whole -- they may not wish to take another cruise, or they may not be able to reassemble the family they had with them, or they may not be able to get time off work.

wtf? Carnival offer a refund and another cruise. The ship broke in the middle of the ocean and couldn't be fixed until towed back in. What exactly were they suppose to do? Like I said, sometimes shit happens. Ruin their life? Give me a break.

"Shit happens"? That's your answer? You Big Business worshippers just astound me. This boat was not struck by some unforeseeable event -- it has a design flaw and/or safety procedures were inadequate or not followed. Passengers have been injured. I have pointed out that to some people, the trauma may be permanent and I'd suspect few will ever set foot on another cruise ship (certainly not one owned by Carnival). Doubtless there are people aboard to whom this trip was very meaningful and who cannot recreate their window of opportunity to re-take it, for various reasons.

Where are you getting 'design flaw and/or safety procedures were inadequate or not followed'? I saw nothing of that in the link your provided. The ship isn't even back yet, so how do YOU know what the cause of the fire was???

Accidents like the engine-room fire are rare, said Monty Mathisen, of the New York-based publication Cruise Industry News.

The last major cruise accident was in 2007 when a ship with more than 1,500 people sank after hitting rocks near the Aegean island of Santorini, Mathisen said. Two French tourists died.

"This stuff does not happen," he said. "The ships have to be safe. If not, the market will collapse."

If the ships aren't safe, the cruise market will collapse. Yet your first conclusion is that Carnival did something intentional. Why not wait until the ship is in before coming to that conclusion?

Your comparison between the homeowner in New Jersey and the multi-national conglomerate that owns Carnival is amusing but off-point. The homeowners did not commission the design of the hot water heater and did not induce you and your family to enter the premises, assure that you could not leave, and then trap you in a dangerous, unsanitary and wretched set of circumstances for any length of time. If you keep thinking that no corporation is ever responsible when it makes a mistake through negligence or malfeasance, Zoom-boing, you will help to create a group-think in this country that encourages recklessness by corporations.

You missed my point.

Where did I say that no coporation was ever responsible? Oh yeah, I didn't.

Your first thought was "it's Carnival's fault due to negligence of some sort."

My first thought was "something broke, that sucks".

Your mind-set immediately sues; my mindset says wait and get all the facts first.

And yeah, sometimes shit happens and it isn't anyone's fault.