Should Jerusalem be made an international city?

[Hyrcanus]

Facts which do not support our colleague's viewpoint are simply ignored... it seems to fit the psych-profile, to ignore history and context and relative-comparison and other little inconveniences like that which get in the way of Dogma.

Ignoring history? You mean like how you guys ignore than hundreds of thousands of Arabs were forced out of Israel by the IDF during and even after the 1958 War?

Like how you guys ignore the legal discrimination and double-standard the Palestinians face?

Like how you guys love to talk about the Balfour Declaration and Palestine Mandate, but ignore that it DEMANDS that Gentiles be treated fairly and equally?

 

[Kondor3]

Facts which do not support our colleague's viewpoint are simply ignored... it seems to fit the psych-profile, to ignore history and context and relative-comparison and other little inconveniences like that which get in the way of Dogma.

Ignoring history? You mean like how you guys..."

But we are not talking about those things now.

We are talking about your contention that in hand-to-hand combat, 100,000 Arabs will slaughter 100,000 Israelis.

We can talk about these other issues some other time.

DO try to stay focused, yes?

Our colleague brought up a historical point which seems to contradict your contention about the 100,000-man duel.

You are attempting to deflect attention away from your contention, so that you will not be obliged to substantiate it.

That attempt is being called-out for what it is - disingenuous and smacking of intellectual cowardice.

So, getting back on track...

We're all sitting here waiting with bated breath for you to stun and amaze us with your intellectual prowess in decisively substantiating your claim about the 100,000...

You may begin when ready...

 

[Hyrcanus]

But we are not talking about those things now....

You are right. This thread is about whether Jerusalem should be an international city.

The answer is: yes.

The Old City should be shared by Israel and Palestine.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

The Old City should be shared by Israel and Palestine.

...including the part of "Palestine" that is ruled by Hamas, which you acknowledge to be a terrorist organization that should be brought before the Hague.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

But we are not talking about those things now....

You are right. This thread is about whether Jerusalem should be an international city.

The answer is: yes.

The Old City should be shared by Israel and Palestine.

It's too small, and our soldiers' blood that was spilled liberating the Old City will have been in vain. The fighting was savage, but the Israelis took great care not to damage the holy sites. That's why so much blood was shed. Jews pray 3x a day for Jerusalem, and mention her in every Grace-after-Meals. She's also mentioned at every Passover Seder and after the long Yom Kipper fast, as well as being the reason for the Tisha B'Av fast. How do you think G-d would react if we gave up Jerusalem? Is Israel only represented by Tel-Aviv's high-tech businesses?

 

[Hyrcanus]

It's too small, and our soldiers' blood that was spilled liberating the Old City will have been in vain. The fighting was savage, but the Israelis took great care not to damage the holy sites. That's why so much blood was shed. Jews pray 3x a day for Jerusalem...

Do they now?

The vast majority of Jews only pray on the High Holidays.

Same with the vast majority of Israelis.

 

[Wonky Pundit]

That was almost certainly true in the first decade or two of the life of the State of Israel.

But that ship has sailed now... the Arabs cannot even try to overwhelm the Israelis now without the loss of many millions of their own.

It would be costly, sure, but in theory it's possible. In practice, of course, a coordinated invasion won't happen because all that infighting is still there. It's been there for many, many centuries and will continue for at least as many more.

And what makes you think the U.S will allow for the Arab states to attempt to invade Israel ? It would never work . Ever.
No doubt it would backfire in the face of the Arab leaders and the ones who will suffer most are the civilians of the Arab states.

Whether the U.S. would intervene would depend on dozens, if not hundreds, of factors. My scenario was purely hypothetical and nowhere near that detailed.

The real point of the argument is that 29 Arab countries will never cooperate to that degree.

 

[Kondor3]

But we are not talking about those things now....

You are right. This thread is about whether Jerusalem should be an international city...

And one of the myriad sidebars that routinely occur on all threads was just voiced by you - a contention that in any hand-to-hand combat, 100,000 Arabs would slaughter 100,000 Israelis...

It was your contention, not any of ours...

And, as with any contention when disputed, that requires substantiation, in order to have any traction or credibility...

We are merely wrapping-up the sidebar on our way back to the mainstream conversation...

You have been challenged, and subsequently invited to provide the audience with substantiation for your claim...

You have (again) failed to do so...

Shall all of us construe - due to your inability or unwillingness to substantiate your contention - that your contention is not true,after all?

Are you conceding the point by default?

That certainly seems to be the case.

And, in the absence of any substantiation to the contrary, why don't we just wrap-up that little sidebar, so that we can get back to the main course?

You lose - again.

You really are not having a very good day here today.

 

[Hyrcanus]

...You really are not having a very good day here today.

I love all this attention you're giving me.

 

[Kondor3]

...You really are not having a very good day here today.

I love all this attention you're giving me.

Of course you do.

But that has nothing to do with you losing - again.

Which, I assure you, is FAR more significant and FAR more gratifying.

 

[Hyrcanus]

Let me know when you guys want to get back to the OP.

 

[Kondor3]

Let me know when you guys want to get back to the OP.

Anytime you're ready... you've already lost the sidebar you started...

 

[Hyrcanus]

The Old City should be shared by Israel and Palestine as an open city to all.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

The Old City should be shared by Israel and Palestine as an open city to all.

... including Hamas terrorists.

Yeah, that makes sense.

 

[Hyrcanus]

Let me know when you guys want to get back to the OP.

Anytime you're ready... you've already lost the sidebar you started...

respond whenever u like.

 

[Kondor3]

All of Jerusalem should remain under Israeli control.

The Israelis should undertake to protect Holy Sites for all faiths and to provide a liberal access to same under circumstances in which such access can be provided without compromising legitimate Israeli security concerns.

 

[Hyrcanus]

All of Jerusalem should remain under Israeli control.

The Israelis should undertake to protect Holy Sites for all faiths and to provide a liberal access to same under circumstances in which such access can be provided without compromising legitimate Israeli security concerns.

what about East Jerusalem?

should that also remain under Israeli control ad infinitum?

 

[Kondor3]

All of Jerusalem should remain under Israeli control.

The Israelis should undertake to protect Holy Sites for all faiths and to provide a liberal access to same under circumstances in which such access can be provided without compromising legitimate Israeli security concerns.

what about East Jerusalem?

"All of Jerusalem" means just that... ALL of Jerusalem.

should that also remain under Israeli control ad infinitum?

Yes.

 

[Hyrcanus]

Yes.

well, that's unacceptable and has no logical reason.

Israel unilaterally annexed West Bank land and called it "Jerusalem".

never in the history if that city, have these new parts EVER been considered part of Jerusalem.

there is no good reason why the Arab parts can't become part of Palestine.

 

[Hyrcanus]

I have a fabulous idea.

Let the people of Jerusalem decide.

The people of the Old City will decide their fate.

The Arabs in East Jerusalem will be allowed to vote if they want to remain part of Israel...or Palestine.

If the Arabs in East Jerusalem vote to stay part of Israel, well then, that should be their fate.

If they vote to become part of Palestine, that should be their fate.

Leave it to the people who will be most affected by these decisions.

You know, like a true democracy would act.