Should health care depend on ability to pay?

[boedicca]

The poll choices are inadequate.

Health care consists of good and services provided by others. Unless one is willing to pay a fair price for it, it will become scarce. Period.

 

[Political Junky]

In another thread, we were talking about mixing private and public health care schemes. The problem with this approach, in the view of some, is that it allows richer patients to get better care, and subsequently condemns poor patients to the lower quality care. Thus the poll.

And yes, I misspelled a word in the poll questions, that I now cannot edit. Sue me.

lets see.... pay for a private room.... or get put in a 6 bed ward for free. If you aren't paying a dime... why complain about being in a ward? I want a private room... and pay for that.... privileged.


paying for expensive drugs...... yep, even the rich have to pay their way for expensive drugs. I was just given a prescription for an asthma inhaler.... 200 bucks WITH insurance. If i wanted it...i had to pay for it. Pretty simple.... wallgreens was not just going to give it to me out of the kindness of their own hearts.


Specialty expensive doctors..... cool! The rich still have to pay for them.... and if the doctor is not willing to work for free.... why should he be forced to treat someone who is not paying him? I buy insurance that covers the doctors I want..... why should complaints be made about getting what ever they get... for free.


It's so damn funny, they make it out as if the "rich" are not paying their way for what they want.

the poor want everything.... they just don't want to pay for it.

Does it bother you that your $200. inhaler might cost a Canadian or European $5.? Although it might be made in the US, those places are given better prices.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

In another thread, we were talking about mixing private and public health care schemes. The problem with this approach, in the view of some, is that it allows richer patients to get better care, and subsequently condemns poor patients to the lower quality care. Thus the poll.

And yes, I misspelled a word in the poll questions, that I now cannot edit. Sue me.

No one on this planet actually believes that everyone deserves the same quality of care. I prefer being honest and admitting that upfront.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Hmmm - I just looked at the votes - three have voted that "it's fine for richer people to get better health care".

Then why do rw's like Reagan's SOCIALIST free care for the poor that the rich have to pay for?

Why do you hate it?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Should richer people drive nicer cars, wear better clothes, live in better homes? Sure if they pay their own way, why not?

Right - it provokes the more general question: Should rich people be able to buy a better quality of life?

I suppose many would say that health care is different, and that the principle shouldn't be generalized. But I'm wondering on what grounds it's considered a special case. Food and shelter are arguably just as fundamental to our survival as health care - why shouldn't they be treated in similar fashion?

Food is more essential than health care. It takes a few weeks to die without food, it is possible to live for years without medical care.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Everyone should be equal. Just because someone is poor doesn't mean they should have crappy healthcare.

You do not believe that. If you did you would not accept any health care for yourself until everyone on the entire planet got the exact same level of care as you do.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Everyone should be equal. Just because someone is poor doesn't mean they should have crappy healthcare.

in a utopian world... sure.


we do not live in a utopian world.


just becasue someone i poor... also does not mean they should get what others pay for themselves.... and should be happy with what they are getting


for free.

The rest of the industrialized nations provide care to all their people. The US doesn't.

Please, tell me you think that this is health care we should have. I want to laugh in your face.

Patients starve and die of thirst on hospital wards - Telegraph

 

[Political Junky]

in a utopian world... sure.


we do not live in a utopian world.


just becasue someone i poor... also does not mean they should get what others pay for themselves.... and should be happy with what they are getting


for free.

The rest of the industrialized nations provide care to all their people. The US doesn't.

Please, tell me you think that this is health care we should have. I want to laugh in your face.

Patients starve and die of thirst on hospital wards - Telegraph

Study links 45,000 U.S. deaths to lack of insurance | Reuters


(Reuters) - Nearly 45,000 people die in the United States each year -- one every 12 minutes -- in large part because they lack health insurance and can not get good care, Harvard Medical School researchers found in an analysis released on Thursday.

"We're losing more Americans every day because of inaction ... than drunk driving and homicide combined," Dr. David Himmelstein, a co-author of the study and an associate professor of medicine at Harvard, said in an interview with Reuters.

Overall, researchers said American adults age 64 and younger who lack health insurance have a 40 percent higher risk of death than those who have coverage.

The findings come amid a fierce debate over Democrats' efforts to reform the nation's $2.5 trillion U.S. healthcare industry by expanding coverage and reducing healthcare costs.

President Barack Obama's has made the overhaul a top domestic policy priority, but his plan has been besieged by critics and slowed by intense political battles in Congress, with the insurance and healthcare industries fighting some parts of the plan.

The Harvard study, funded by a federal research grant, was published in the online edition of the American Journal of Public Health. It was released by Physicians for a National Health Program, which favors government-backed or "single-payer" health insurance.
<more>

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The rest of the industrialized nations provide care to all their people. The US doesn't.

Please, tell me you think that this is health care we should have. I want to laugh in your face.

Patients starve and die of thirst on hospital wards - Telegraph

Study links 45,000 U.S. deaths to lack of insurance | Reuters


(Reuters) - Nearly 45,000 people die in the United States each year -- one every 12 minutes -- in large part because they lack health insurance and can not get good care, Harvard Medical School researchers found in an analysis released on Thursday.

"We're losing more Americans every day because of inaction ... than drunk driving and homicide combined," Dr. David Himmelstein, a co-author of the study and an associate professor of medicine at Harvard, said in an interview with Reuters.

Overall, researchers said American adults age 64 and younger who lack health insurance have a 40 percent higher risk of death than those who have coverage.

The findings come amid a fierce debate over Democrats' efforts to reform the nation's $2.5 trillion U.S. healthcare industry by expanding coverage and reducing healthcare costs.

President Barack Obama's has made the overhaul a top domestic policy priority, but his plan has been besieged by critics and slowed by intense political battles in Congress, with the insurance and healthcare industries fighting some parts of the plan.

The Harvard study, funded by a federal research grant, was published in the online edition of the American Journal of Public Health. It was released by Physicians for a National Health Program, which favors government-backed or "single-payer" health insurance.
<more>

Do you know the difference between insurance and health care?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Should richer people drive nicer cars, wear better clothes, live in better homes? Sure if they pay their own way, why not?

Right - it provokes the more general question: Should rich people be able to buy a better quality of life?

I suppose many would say that health care is different, and that the principle shouldn't be generalized. But I'm wondering on what grounds it's considered a special case. Food and shelter are arguably just as fundamental to our survival as health care - why shouldn't they be treated in similar fashion?

And just as we provide a minimum standard with regard to food and shelter, so too is the case with healthcare.

That doesn’t mean the level of care should be the same, however.

Those of means may opt out of a singe-payer system, for example, and purchase insurance on their own or stay in and buy supplemental insurance.

So yes, it’s perfectly appropriate for wealthier Americans who can afford it to receive a relatively higher quality of healthcare.

That doesn’t mean that poor Americans should go without, however; or be subject to such poor healthcare as to jeopardize their life or quality of life.

 

[jasonnfree]

Everyone should be equal. Just because someone is poor doesn't mean they should have crappy healthcare.

in a utopian world... sure.


we do not live in a utopian world.


just becasue someone i poor... also does not mean they should get what others pay for themselves.... and should be happy with what they are getting


for free.

The rest of the industrialized nations provide care to all their people. The US doesn't.

Probably one of the reasons is USA doctors get paid more than doctors in countries with universal health care.

Higher Fees Paid To US Physicians Drive Higher Spending For Physician Services Compared To Other Countries

 

[Political Junky]

in a utopian world... sure.


we do not live in a utopian world.


just becasue someone i poor... also does not mean they should get what others pay for themselves.... and should be happy with what they are getting


for free.

The rest of the industrialized nations provide care to all their people. The US doesn't.

Probably one of the reasons is USA doctors get paid more than doctors in countries with universal health care.

Higher Fees Paid To US Physicians Drive Higher Spending For Physician Services Compared To Other Countries

Yes, the well off are rewarded, while the worker is denied decent pay. After all his job can be exported.

 

[syrenn]

In another thread, we were talking about mixing private and public health care schemes. The problem with this approach, in the view of some, is that it allows richer patients to get better care, and subsequently condemns poor patients to the lower quality care. Thus the poll.

And yes, I misspelled a word in the poll questions, that I now cannot edit. Sue me.

lets see.... pay for a private room.... or get put in a 6 bed ward for free. If you aren't paying a dime... why complain about being in a ward? I want a private room... and pay for that.... privileged.


paying for expensive drugs...... yep, even the rich have to pay their way for expensive drugs. I was just given a prescription for an asthma inhaler.... 200 bucks WITH insurance. If i wanted it...i had to pay for it. Pretty simple.... wallgreens was not just going to give it to me out of the kindness of their own hearts.


Specialty expensive doctors..... cool! The rich still have to pay for them.... and if the doctor is not willing to work for free.... why should he be forced to treat someone who is not paying him? I buy insurance that covers the doctors I want..... why should complaints be made about getting what ever they get... for free.


It's so damn funny, they make it out as if the "rich" are not paying their way for what they want.

the poor want everything.... they just don't want to pay for it.

Does it bother you that your $200. inhaler might cost a Canadian or European $5.? Although it might be made in the US, those places are given better prices.

sure it does....

the way i see it... we should be charging the rest of the world the high costs of meds... and Americans should get a break.

but as it is now...it is what it is. If you want it pay for it.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The problem with this approach, in the view of some, is that it allows richer patients to get better care,

well since most would say food clothing shelter and a few other things are more important or as important as health care, is it also a problem that the rich get better stuff?

Do you want to live in a communist world where everyone seems to starve to death as redistribution destroys everyone's incentives??

 

[Avorysuds]

Everyone should be equal. Just because someone is poor doesn't mean they should have crappy healthcare.

Millions will die do to your desire and yet your dream will never be realized during the entire existence of man kind.

 

[Katzndogz]

We file more lawsuits than any other country and sue doctors more than anyone else. Would you accept free health care if you knew it meant never suing another doctor for any reason?

 

[Avorysuds]

The rest of the industrialized nations provide care to all their people. The US doesn't.

Probably one of the reasons is USA doctors get paid more than doctors in countries with universal health care.

Higher Fees Paid To US Physicians Drive Higher Spending For Physician Services Compared To Other Countries

Yes, the well off are rewarded, while the worker is denied decent pay. After all his job can be exported.

Dang, I didn't realize that 8 people in America have good health care while the masses are dying in the streets......... Thanks for pointing that out.


GUYS!!! I'm gonna be a liberal from here on out because they're so fucking smart n shit! Screw thinking for myself, I'm joining the mindless collective. Free healthcare for all!!! and I want it with diamonds on top! You get no thanks from me cuz I DESERVE IT BITCHZ!

I better not get some useless conservative dip chit talking to me about where the TRILLIONS will come from... Them fuckers hate children, and blacks... and and minorities... annnnnnnd..... education! Yeah, education!!! I'm a liberal now, I don't defend the rich, I depend on them, for all their tax dollars to pay for everything I don't wana earn, because it's a right!

 

[Toronado3800]

One of my co workers ran me in this conversation today and convinced me human life is special. Well, I decided Hitler's life and the lives of morally repugnant folks were no longdr special.

But anyways, if it is special then yeah, everyone deserves healthcare. The wealthy will always have better in home nurses and the like just because in real life there is a line society must draw, but since everyone can vote everyone is special.

Damn. That felt sappy.

And most days I don't care if folks live or die. I just want universal healthcare so everyone HAS to pay to their ability and destitute individuals aren't all layin in the street waiting for Jesus to come heal them or committing crimes to pay for things. THAT lowers my quality of life.

So either way I guess we need more or less equal healthcare.

 

[zakdavis]

I'm a little iffy on it, and my opinion swings both ways.

 

[dblack]

One of my co workers ran me in this conversation today and convinced me human life is special. Well, I decided Hitler's life and the lives of morally repugnant folks were no longer special.

But anyways, if it is special then yeah, everyone deserves healthcare. The wealthy will always have better in home nurses and the like just because in real life there is a line society must draw, but since everyone can vote everyone is special.

Damn. That felt sappy.

Nothing wrong with sappy, but I don't think the view you present here is practical. You hint at one the key problems (the bolded part above). Apparently we can agree that miscreants like Hitler are "less special", and either don't deserve health care, or don't deserve it as much as others do. But what about less extreme cases. What about a 'normal' murderer? What about a child-abuser? Or - let's move away from criminal cases - what about the guy who chain smokes all his life and then gets lung cancer. Does society owe him health care? How much? What about the daredevil who puts himself into a coma with some crazy stunt gone awry? Do we owe him as well?

And most days I don't care if folks live or die. I just want universal healthcare so everyone HAS to pay to their ability ...

What should they be paying for exactly? Their health care? Their family's? All of society's?