Should Gov't have Limits?

[uptownlivin90]

Government should have limits.

People should have rights.

It should never be the other way around.

 

[Wacky Quacky]

??? Do you mean "How do you propose the government do this"? The old fashioned way, by making bad things illegal.

But then it comes down to personal opinion of what is bad. And therein lies the problem.

Yes you are right, some people do not think it is a bad thing to dump people from their health insurance or run them into bankruptcy or any of the other horrible side effects of a for profit health system, their opinion seems to matter more than their customers who have paid for a service and end up screwed anyway or those who cannot even afford to buy insurance.

And a majority of people have no issues with that aspect of Obamacare, it's the mandate that's a problem. Does the government have the right to force me to buy health insurance because they think its in my best interest?

I don't believe the government has the right to force me to buy a god damned thing, at least not without some choice in the matter. Car insurance, I have a choice to not own a car and to use mass transit instead. SS I have no choice in whatsoever, even if I want to handle my own retirement.

 

[DontBeStupid]

But then it comes down to personal opinion of what is bad. And therein lies the problem.

Yes you are right, some people do not think it is a bad thing to dump people from their health insurance or run them into bankruptcy or any of the other horrible side effects of a for profit health system, their opinion seems to matter more than their customers who have paid for a service and end up screwed anyway or those who cannot even afford to buy insurance.

And a majority of people have no issues with that aspect of Obamacare, it's the mandate that's a problem. Does the government have the right to force me to buy health insurance because they think its in my best interest?

I don't believe the government has the right to force me to buy a god damned thing, at least not without some choice in the matter. Car insurance, I have a choice to not own a car and to use mass transit instead. SS I have no choice in whatsoever, even if I want to handle my own retirement.

Moot point as Obamacare doesn't require you to buy anything. It requires you to have coverage, but that's a very different thing.

 

[percysunshine]

Government should have limits.

People should have rights.

It should never be the other way around.

Most things centrally planned end in tears and regrets. You would think people would have learned that by now.

 

[Katiegrrl0]

Government tells you what you can and can't do all the time. There are no smoking laws. Laws tell people to put on their seat belt. They tell you to drive 35 MPH. Government decided to install handicapped ramps on every corner in most places. When doesn't government direct your life.
They tell you in some states that you must have auto insurance. They legislate the age to drink, marry, and when to send your children to school. They also force parents to buy car seats for their children. These are all positions the government takes where they are involved in a person's private life.
You are taxed to pay for things and services you do not use or in some cases do not support. Government controls many of life's actions. Where do you suggest one would draw the line.

So in other words? Government has determined that they are the final arbitors of individual liberty?

No. We have given them that ability. It would be pure chaos if all of us defended our own liberties every chance we got. That's not how a civilized society works.

You give the government certain rights, this is true. How does forcing you to wear a seat belt illustrate the certain powers you give them? They are legislating not the nation at this point. They are legislating you in your car. Will you be comfortable when the government (say) decides what you can view on television or look at on the internet? Will you be comfortable if they said pizza causes health risks and can give people heart attacks we will no longer allow this? It may be an odd stretch but in many ways they are already doing this.
If you allow them in the door on the small things the next step is the big things they will take.
If you own a gas guzzler vehicle you have to pay an extra dollar for gas. Would you like them to do that? How does any of this ease chaos and not just structure your life?

 

[syrenn]

Government tells you what you can and can't do all the time. There are no smoking laws. Laws tell people to put on their seat belt. They tell you to drive 35 MPH. Government decided to install handicapped ramps on every corner in most places. When doesn't government direct your life.
They tell you in some states that you must have auto insurance. They legislate the age to drink, marry, and when to send your children to school. They also force parents to buy car seats for their children. These are all positions the government takes where they are involved in a person's private life.
You are taxed to pay for things and services you do not use or in some cases do not support. Government controls many of life's actions. Where do you suggest one would draw the line.

If you want to drive a car... you need to buy insurance. You also have a choice of what insurance you want to purchase. No one is forcing you to drive or carry insurance.

If you want to have your small child in your car while you drive... you need to buy a car seat. No one is forcing you to bring your small child along.

The rest of what you say comes out of taxes. And even then only a portion of citizens pay federal taxes.

So far there is nothing i know of that we are forced to purchase.

 

[The T]

Which of course doesn't or ever say what you think it says. The Constitution is supreme. Legislation that has not been made at a federal level, like the prohibition of prostitution or gambling..is left to the states to decide.

As is the BOR oaf. It describes exactly what the Federal Government may NOT do and is left to the States whom in thier own right are soverign as is every individual American citizen.

YOU didn't pay attention is Civics class, did you? And that is assuming it was taught at all.

If the Bill of Rights does not say that the Government cannot do something, do you think they then have the power to do it?

So tell us brainiac? What DO the 9th and 10th state?

I'll wait...

 

[Katiegrrl0]

Government tells you what you can and can't do all the time. There are no smoking laws. Laws tell people to put on their seat belt. They tell you to drive 35 MPH. Government decided to install handicapped ramps on every corner in most places. When doesn't government direct your life.
They tell you in some states that you must have auto insurance. They legislate the age to drink, marry, and when to send your children to school. They also force parents to buy car seats for their children. These are all positions the government takes where they are involved in a person's private life.
You are taxed to pay for things and services you do not use or in some cases do not support. Government controls many of life's actions. Where do you suggest one would draw the line.

If you want to drive a car... you need to buy insurance. You also have a choice of what insurance you want to purchase. No one is forcing you to drive or carry insurance.

If you want to have your small child in your car while you drive... you need to buy a car seat. No one is forcing you to bring your small child along.

The rest of what you say comes out of taxes. And even then only a portion of citizens pay federal taxes.

So far there is nothing i know of that we are forced to purchase.

You defend the infringement on your rights very nicely. Let them tell me I must have insurance. Let them tell me I must wear a seat belt. Both are very good ideas but do you really want government telling you to buy and do these things.

So you are very comfortable with government running your life? I guess some people are. What I find funny is that people call me the Socialist when I fight governments infringements every chance I get and the non Socialists love to have government run their lives.

 

[PoliticalChic]

How do you propose the government of this?

??? Do you mean "How do you propose the government do this"? The old fashioned way, by making bad things illegal.

But then it comes down to personal opinion of what is bad. And therein lies the problem.

Yep.

Let's remember what the Great Man said:

We are a nation that has a government—not the other way around. ..

 

[occupied]

But then it comes down to personal opinion of what is bad. And therein lies the problem.

Yes you are right, some people do not think it is a bad thing to dump people from their health insurance or run them into bankruptcy or any of the other horrible side effects of a for profit health system, their opinion seems to matter more than their customers who have paid for a service and end up screwed anyway or those who cannot even afford to buy insurance.

And a majority of people have no issues with that aspect of Obamacare, it's the mandate that's a problem. Does the government have the right to force me to buy health insurance because they think its in my best interest?

I don't believe the government has the right to force me to buy a god damned thing, at least not without some choice in the matter. Car insurance, I have a choice to not own a car and to use mass transit instead. SS I have no choice in whatsoever, even if I want to handle my own retirement.

Yes, it's the cost of having the profit margins of insurance companies as the primary concern of health reform. Would have been a lot different if the politicians involved would have been allowed to put the good of the many above the bank accounts of those who are not directly involved in treatment of the sick. Yay capitalism.

 

[percysunshine]

Government tells you what you can and can't do all the time. There are no smoking laws. Laws tell people to put on their seat belt. They tell you to drive 35 MPH. Government decided to install handicapped ramps on every corner in most places. When doesn't government direct your life.
They tell you in some states that you must have auto insurance. They legislate the age to drink, marry, and when to send your children to school. They also force parents to buy car seats for their children. These are all positions the government takes where they are involved in a person's private life.
You are taxed to pay for things and services you do not use or in some cases do not support. Government controls many of life's actions. Where do you suggest one would draw the line.

If you want to drive a car... you need to buy insurance....

The insurance that is purchased is for protecting the other people you accidentally hit. Not to protect yourself. A conveniently overlooked detail in the debate.

 

[Katiegrrl0]

??? Do you mean "How do you propose the government do this"? The old fashioned way, by making bad things illegal.

But then it comes down to personal opinion of what is bad. And therein lies the problem.

Yep.

Let's remember what the Great Man said:

We are a nation that has a government—not the other way around. ..

But your lives are fully dictated by the government and they are dictating more and more everyday. Complacency allows them to take more and more.

 

[Greenbeard]

Let's cut to the chase - should the gov't have the power to force you to buy something, anything, or not buy it? Do they have the power to decide for you what's good for you and what isn't, a decision you have no say in? For example, should they be able to determine the conditions for who gets what medical treatment, based on cost analysis by a bunch of bureaucrats?

You mean like if I have a chronic pain, should I be able to head down to my local pharmacy and spend some of my hard-earned dollars on medical marijuana in a perfectly legal market transaction?

 

[DontBeStupid]

As is the BOR oaf. It describes exactly what the Federal Government may NOT do and is left to the States whom in thier own right are soverign as is every individual American citizen.

YOU didn't pay attention is Civics class, did you? And that is assuming it was taught at all.

If the Bill of Rights does not say that the Government cannot do something, do you think they then have the power to do it?

So tell us brainiac? What DO the 9th and 10th state?

I'll wait...

What? You don't know? That's odd, since you scream about both of them almost on a daily basis. Ok, well, I'll help you through them.

9th - The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Basically, this means if there is not a right directly written out in the Constitution, that doesn't mean people don't have that right. For example, no where does the Constitution say you have a right to buy Viagra, but clearly you, T, have the right to buy Viagra.

10th - The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

This is just an obvious declaration of act. If the Fed can't do it, and that States aren't prohibited from doing it, then the States or the People can do it. Obviously.

Now, answer my question. If the Bill of Rights does not say that the Government cannot do something, do you think they then have the power to do it?

 

[percysunshine]

Let's cut to the chase - should the gov't have the power to force you to buy something, anything, or not buy it? Do they have the power to decide for you what's good for you and what isn't, a decision you have no say in? For example, should they be able to determine the conditions for who gets what medical treatment, based on cost analysis by a bunch of bureaucrats?

You mean like if I have a chronic pain, should I be able to head down to my local pharmacy and spend some of my hard-earned dollars on medical marijuana in a perfectly legal market transaction?

If the Obamacare death panels are ever controlled by a Republican administration.....well....do the math.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Government tells you what you can and can't do all the time. There are no smoking laws. Laws tell people to put on their seat belt. They tell you to drive 35 MPH. Government decided to install handicapped ramps on every corner in most places. When doesn't government direct your life.
They tell you in some states that you must have auto insurance. They legislate the age to drink, marry, and when to send your children to school. They also force parents to buy car seats for their children. These are all positions the government takes where they are involved in a person's private life.
You are taxed to pay for things and services you do not use or in some cases do not support. Government controls many of life's actions. Where do you suggest one would draw the line.

Once upon a time America was peopled with folks that Edmund Burke referred to as follows:
'They were Protestants “of that kind which is most adverse to all implicit submission of mind and opinion,” and their dissent from the Anglican Church not only favored liberty, it was “built upon it.” '

Now, there are far too many who march in lock step, as you seem to.


In November you'll see folks who bridle at being told what to do, march to the voting booths...

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Let's cut to the chase - should the gov't have the power to force you to buy something, anything, or not buy it? Do they have the power to decide for you what's good for you and what isn't, a decision you have no say in? For example, should they be able to determine the conditions for who gets what medical treatment, based on cost analysis by a bunch of bureaucrats?

And let's not change the subject by bitching about the private insurance system. Separate issue, please stick to the basic question. Should the gov't have any limits at all?


My take: the gov't has no business making personal decisions for it's citizens. Nor does it have a responsibility to assist those who make the wrong choices. Gov't should be restricted to ONLY those functions that individual cannot do by themselves, such as national defense.

That's all very vague and useless, thanks.

 

[Erand7899]

Government tells you what you can and can't do all the time. There are no smoking laws. Laws tell people to put on their seat belt. They tell you to drive 35 MPH. Government decided to install handicapped ramps on every corner in most places. When doesn't government direct your life.
They tell you in some states that you must have auto insurance. They legislate the age to drink, marry, and when to send your children to school. They also force parents to buy car seats for their children. These are all positions the government takes where they are involved in a person's private life.
You are taxed to pay for things and services you do not use or in some cases do not support. Government controls many of life's actions. Where do you suggest one would draw the line.
__________________

First, one must separate the various government levels, and their constitutional relationships with the people. When regulation is necessary, it should come from the lowest level of government consistant with the need for control. Our US Constitution limits the federal government, and leaves everything else to the states and or the people of the states. And, since the people have a much better chance of controlling the actions of the states, we will accept much more personal control from the states and localities, than we will from the federal government.

When a locality overreaches in control, we can expect the state to slap them down. When a state overreaches, we can expect the federal government to slap them down. But, who slaps down the federal government when it overreaches? And that is why we need to keep the federal government limited to the tasks assigned to it by the US Constitution.

 

[percysunshine]

Erand ate too much granola yesterday.

 

[Wacky Quacky]

Yes you are right, some people do not think it is a bad thing to dump people from their health insurance or run them into bankruptcy or any of the other horrible side effects of a for profit health system, their opinion seems to matter more than their customers who have paid for a service and end up screwed anyway or those who cannot even afford to buy insurance.

And a majority of people have no issues with that aspect of Obamacare, it's the mandate that's a problem. Does the government have the right to force me to buy health insurance because they think its in my best interest?

I don't believe the government has the right to force me to buy a god damned thing, at least not without some choice in the matter. Car insurance, I have a choice to not own a car and to use mass transit instead. SS I have no choice in whatsoever, even if I want to handle my own retirement.

Moot point as Obamacare doesn't require you to buy anything. It requires you to have coverage, but that's a very different thing.

Semantics. As far as I'm concerned, hitting me with a fine by way of a tax penalty is forcing me.