CDZ Serious question, where has socialism accually worked?

[CrusaderFrank]

Big government hooks our kids on Socialism while they're in grade school. It's a billion times worse than anything big tobacco ever did

Are public schools, socialism?

They are the indoctrination center for the failed ideology and WE'RE PAYING FOR THEM!

The Department of Education needs to be reformed to the ground

 

[oldsoul]

Our "free market" capitalism is a competitive economy with a number of zero-sum features in it.

Such as....

In such a game, there are going to be more losers than winners. As income distribution skews more and more, the number of winners shrinks while the prize for winning grows. Those at the bottom don't all stay on the bottom but social mobility is stagnating in direct proportion to income distribution.

Define "Winners" and "Losers" please...

No society's game is ever going to be completely fair, but when equality of opportunity is as limited as it is in today's America, more and more people are going to need both a hand out and a hand up. And who is going to pay for those hands?

How about those who can and want to?

How can you possibly beleive that the best way to "level" the playing field, is to take huge portions of the income from the very people who are most likely to invest and create jobs? Doing this only encourages the weathy to take their money, jobs, and assets elsewhere. Look, for example at California, people are leaving in droves, taking their small businesses, and therefore jobs, with them.

 

[oldsoul]

I am somewhat of a student of history, and have yet to find anywhere that socialism has accually worked. Some may argue that it is working in Europe right now. But, is it really? As I see it, there is mounting debt, runaway inflation, and government take overs of entire industries. Just to name a few of the problems facing many nations in Europe. Also, the EU seems to have lost most, if not all, of it's economic power, with the exception of the Euro still existing. So, where is it working, and providing this great utopia that it's proponants say is the result?

Ya, know if I could go into an archive of you and the rest of these nuts here, whining about, stressing over the so called debt during the Bush years, people like you would really have some creds around here. So here's a challenge, not only to you, but to those who constantly come to the web to whine about the deficit, the budget, God, life, ants, peanut butter and vomit.....Please show us anywhere on the web at any site, were these concerns bothered you when Bush was spending like a fuckin idiot, otherwise....we all should dismiss you and the others here as simply a non factor who likes to bitch like a bitch.

I was simply asking a question, troll.

No you did not, you not only asked a question, but you gave your take on government and socialism....I simply as always responded.....now either show proof or shut up!!

I will neither show proof to nor further respond to someone who makes such generalisations. Especially when they are false. In the words of Aurther Dent, "Good day, sir."

 

[oldsoul]

There is no Danish exceptionalism.

Excellent point. And that is why the US has to come riding to the rescue...

 

[oldsoul]

It depends on what is considered "working" and what the real objective of socialism is. It seems the only ones who ever want socialism are the ones in control. Everyone else is screwed. No incentive to excel, no reward for being ambitious, no individuality, just mediocrity at best, and poverty in the end. It only lasts as long as there is capitalism nearby willing to support it.

No one wants GE or Ford to be socialism. Do you want national and state parks sold and managed by corporations or private land owners? Do you want to sell Yellowstone to the koch brothers?

Do you want corporations in charge of our elections?

Do you want our military, police, teachers and prisons all run by for profit companies?

To all but the elections... Yes. If you could make a profit, I would gladly sell them to you as well.

 

[oldsoul]

I am somewhat of a student of history, and have yet to find anywhere that socialism has accually worked. Some may argue that it is working in Europe right now. But, is it really? As I see it, there is mounting debt, runaway inflation, and government take overs of entire industries. Just to name a few of the problems facing many nations in Europe. Also, the EU seems to have lost most, if not all, of it's economic power, with the exception of the Euro still existing. So, where is it working, and providing this great utopia that it's proponants say is the result?

US military springs instantly to mind. Free healthcare, food, housing, etc.

And all you have to do is put your life on the line defending the rest of us. Seems we are getting the long end of that stick, not the soldiers, sailors, and others defending our freedoms.

 

[Agit8r]

I am somewhat of a student of history, and have yet to find anywhere that socialism has accually worked.

Israel

 

[regent]

I am somewhat of a student of history, and have yet to find anywhere that socialism has accually worked.

Few if any nations have pure economic systems, most western industrial nations have mixtures; some socialism, some capitalism, maybe even a pinch of fascism or communism. The United States as much of the world is becoming more liberal in that the welfare of our citizens seems to be coming more important. Another factor is the old conservative battle cry "socialism is communism" is losing to a more informed citizenry.

 

[Agit8r]

I am somewhat of a student of history, and have yet to find anywhere that socialism has accually worked.

Few if any nations have pure economic systems, most western industrial nations have mixtures; some socialism, some capitalism, maybe even a pinch of fascism or communism. The United States as much of the world is becoming more liberal in that the welfare of our citizens seems to be coming more important. Another factor is the old conservative battle cry "socialism is communism" is losing to a more informed citizenry.

looks like an HTML problem there

 

[sealybobo]

It depends on what is considered "working" and what the real objective of socialism is. It seems the only ones who ever want socialism are the ones in control. Everyone else is screwed. No incentive to excel, no reward for being ambitious, no individuality, just mediocrity at best, and poverty in the end. It only lasts as long as there is capitalism nearby willing to support it.

No one wants GE or Ford to be socialism. Do you want national and state parks sold and managed by corporations or private land owners? Do you want to sell Yellowstone to the koch brothers?

Do you want corporations in charge of our elections?

Do you want our military, police, teachers and prisons all run by for profit companies?

To all but the elections... Yes. If you could make a profit, I would gladly sell them to you as well.

Then you are a fool.

So-called Emergency Financial Managers in Michigan are selling off public schools to private charter school corporations – and laying off hundreds of public school teachers in the process. The “mini-dictators” who – appointed by Republican Governors – have unprecedented power to fire local elected officials, break union contracts, and sell off our commons to corporate interests have decided to eat alive the public school system in West Michigan and around the Detroit area. Study after study has shown that private, charter schools don't produce any better education results, but they do pay teachers less, have higher teacher turnovers, and - making Republicans happy - are union-free.

Meanwhile, across the pond in Greece, the rich are devouring the commons at a record rate. Greece's new coalition government is trying to speed up the sale of state-owned assets including utility companies, airports and railways, and 28 other state properties. Far left SYRIZA Party leader – Alexis Tsipras – who was left out of the coalition government, blasted the privatization plans, arguing that the move was like putting a giant “for sale sign” on his country and that the, “government will have to account for its actions, the looting of public goods.” It doesn’t matter where in the world you are, the Libertarian one-world ideology of billionaires running nations into the ground while impoverishing the working class is on the move. - See more at: Corporations are eating our commons

 

[sealybobo]

In essence, the commons means everything that belongs to all of us, and the many ways we work together to use these assets to build a better society. This encompasses fresh air and clean water, public spaces and public services, the Internet and the airwaves, our legal system, scientific knowledge, biodiversity, language, artistic traditions, fashion styles, cuisines and much more. Taken together, it represents a vast inheritance bequeathed equally to every human—and one that, if used wisely, will provide for future generations.

Tragically, this wealth is being stolen in the name of economic efficiency and global competitiveness. As the disparity between the world’s richest individuals and everyone else grows, a massive takeover of the commons is occurring. Through privatization schemes, land grabs, excessive copyright and patenting claims, no-new-taxes policies, neocolonial globalization and the gutting of government services, we are losing what is rightfully ours. These radical policies inflict economic pain but also diminish the natural world, our sense of community and the ability to participate in decisions affecting our future.

But all is not lost. We still depend on and take advantage of the commons every minute of the day, from the tap water we use to brush our teeth in the morning to the fairy tales we tell our kids at bedtime. We have no choice but to redouble efforts to save the commons in its many forms, from essential public services in our communities to net neutrality to a spirit of cooperation in our everyday lives. As awareness of what belongs to all of us grows among progressives, the commons is gradually emerging as both a critique and a strategy to challenge the dominance of market-based values at every level of our society.

 

[tigerred59]

I am somewhat of a student of history, and have yet to find anywhere that socialism has accually worked. Some may argue that it is working in Europe right now. But, is it really? As I see it, there is mounting debt, runaway inflation, and government take overs of entire industries. Just to name a few of the problems facing many nations in Europe. Also, the EU seems to have lost most, if not all, of it's economic power, with the exception of the Euro still existing. So, where is it working, and providing this great utopia that it's proponants say is the result?

Ya, know if I could go into an archive of you and the rest of these nuts here, whining about, stressing over the so called debt during the Bush years, people like you would really have some creds around here. So here's a challenge, not only to you, but to those who constantly come to the web to whine about the deficit, the budget, God, life, ants, peanut butter and vomit.....Please show us anywhere on the web at any site, were these concerns bothered you when Bush was spending like a fuckin idiot, otherwise....we all should dismiss you and the others here as simply a non factor who likes to bitch like a bitch.

I was simply asking a question, troll.

No you did not, you not only asked a question, but you gave your take on government and socialism....I simply as always responded.....now either show proof or shut up!!

I will neither show proof to nor further respond to someone who makes such generalisations. Especially when they are false. In the words of Aurther Dent, "Good day, sir."

No, in the words of Dustin Hoffman in Tootsie, I said, good day, sir, good day.

 

[oldsoul]

So-called Emergency Financial Managers in Michigan are selling off public schools to private charter school corporations – and laying off hundreds of public school teachers in the process. The “mini-dictators” who – appointed by Republican Governors – have unprecedented power to fire local elected officials, break union contracts, and sell off our commons to corporate interests have decided to eat alive the public school system in West Michigan and around the Detroit area. Study after study has shown that private, charter schools don't produce any better education results, but they do pay teachers less, have higher teacher turnovers, and - making Republicans happy - are union-free.

This has only been possible because of decades of corruption and mismanagement by Liberals and other left-wingers. So, is it really the Republicans that are to blame? Have the Democrats not had near total control of Michigan and specificly Detroit for 50+ years?

 

[danielpalos]

I am somewhat of a student of history, and have yet to find anywhere that socialism has accually worked. Some may argue that it is working in Europe right now. But, is it really? As I see it, there is mounting debt, runaway inflation, and government take overs of entire industries. Just to name a few of the problems facing many nations in Europe. Also, the EU seems to have lost most, if not all, of it's economic power, with the exception of the Euro still existing. So, where is it working, and providing this great utopia that it's proponants say is the result?

Socialism works better than capitalism; our form of Socialism is the best in the World, and the right proves it by complaining about the least wealthy buying steak and lobster on their EBT cards.

 

[oldsoul]

In essence, the commons means everything that belongs to all of us, and the many ways we work together to use these assets to build a better society. This encompasses fresh air and clean water, public spaces and public services, the Internet and the airwaves, our legal system, scientific knowledge, biodiversity, language, artistic traditions, fashion styles, cuisines and much more. Taken together, it represents a vast inheritance bequeathed equally to every human—and one that, if used wisely, will provide for future generations.

Tragically, this wealth is being stolen in the name of economic efficiency and global competitiveness. As the disparity between the world’s richest individuals and everyone else grows, a massive takeover of the commons is occurring. Through privatization schemes, land grabs, excessive copyright and patenting claims, no-new-taxes policies, neocolonial globalization and the gutting of government services, we are losing what is rightfully ours. These radical policies inflict economic pain but also diminish the natural world, our sense of community and the ability to participate in decisions affecting our future.

But all is not lost. We still depend on and take advantage of the commons every minute of the day, from the tap water we use to brush our teeth in the morning to the fairy tales we tell our kids at bedtime. We have no choice but to redouble efforts to save the commons in its many forms, from essential public services in our communities to net neutrality to a spirit of cooperation in our everyday lives. As awareness of what belongs to all of us grows among progressives, the commons is gradually emerging as both a critique and a strategy to challenge the dominance of market-based values at every level of our society.

I think we agree more that you think. I agree our culture is under attack, and I agree that it takes a grass-roots effort to get it back. Where we disagree is on the role of Government in this "equation". I, for one, entrust "We the people" over the government.

Also, in a free and democratic Republic, such as the U.S., the people get the government they deserve. To maintain a free republic it requires a well educated and active people. The left knows this, especially the far left, and that is why many of them are, and have been for decades, so desperate to get and maintain control of education. An educated populace cannot be ruled, only governed. They are also, doing everything they can to silence any opposition.

 

[oldsoul]

Starting with the group obvious above, I realize that they are not the only problem citizens.

I have though about this statement a good deal over the last couple of days, and I have to respond...

This really gets to the core of the difference between conservatives and liberals in our country. I am not saying that this is how you see them, but it is how you wrote your ideas.

Far too often liberals see groups as "Problem citizens", they are not problems, they are people. Conservatives see these populations as opportunities.

Abandoned children
Liberals: now we have to pay for them too.
Conservatives: we have lots of people who would love to adopt them.

The elderly
Liberlas: another group to take care of.
Conservatives: A great wealth of knowledge and wisdom.

The disabled
Liberals: they can't be as productive.
Conservatives: they see and experience the world differently, how do we use that to better ourselves?

These are not absolutes, and not all liberals or conservatives see it the same way. If we can just stop seeing our differences as a problem and find a way to use those differences to the betterment of all, it would go a long way towards healing the transgresions of the past.

 

[danielpalos]

In essence, the commons means everything that belongs to all of us, and the many ways we work together to use these assets to build a better society. This encompasses fresh air and clean water, public spaces and public services, the Internet and the airwaves, our legal system, scientific knowledge, biodiversity, language, artistic traditions, fashion styles, cuisines and much more. Taken together, it represents a vast inheritance bequeathed equally to every human—and one that, if used wisely, will provide for future generations.

Tragically, this wealth is being stolen in the name of economic efficiency and global competitiveness. As the disparity between the world’s richest individuals and everyone else grows, a massive takeover of the commons is occurring. Through privatization schemes, land grabs, excessive copyright and patenting claims, no-new-taxes policies, neocolonial globalization and the gutting of government services, we are losing what is rightfully ours. These radical policies inflict economic pain but also diminish the natural world, our sense of community and the ability to participate in decisions affecting our future.

But all is not lost. We still depend on and take advantage of the commons every minute of the day, from the tap water we use to brush our teeth in the morning to the fairy tales we tell our kids at bedtime. We have no choice but to redouble efforts to save the commons in its many forms, from essential public services in our communities to net neutrality to a spirit of cooperation in our everyday lives. As awareness of what belongs to all of us grows among progressives, the commons is gradually emerging as both a critique and a strategy to challenge the dominance of market-based values at every level of our society.

I think we agree more that you think. I agree our culture is under attack, and I agree that it takes a grass-roots effort to get it back. Where we disagree is on the role of Government in this "equation". I, for one, entrust "We the people" over the government.

Also, in a free and democratic Republic, such as the U.S., the people get the government they deserve. To maintain a free republic it requires a well educated and active people. The left knows this, especially the far left, and that is why many of them are, and have been for decades, so desperate to get and maintain control of education. An educated populace cannot be ruled, only governed. They are also, doing everything they can to silence any opposition.

Thank goodness for our modern Information Age.

 

[The Great Goose]

I thought of this the other day. I thought, is the semi socialism we see in many nice countries really "communism"?

Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between it and nationalism. Bismarck's universal healthcare I'd say was nationalised. Britain still calls its version, the national heath.

Is a country with a government owned post offce and utilities socialism or just left over from nationalism?

I suppose the socialists take over the old national institutions.

 

[oldsoul]

I thought of this the other day. I thought, is the semi socialism we see in many nice countries really "communism"?

Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between it and nationalism. Bismarck's universal healthcare I'd say was nationalised. Britain still calls its version, the national heath.

Is a country with a government owned post offce and utilities socialism or just left over from nationalism?

I suppose the socialists take over the old national institutions.

Interesting...

 

[sealybobo]

So-called Emergency Financial Managers in Michigan are selling off public schools to private charter school corporations – and laying off hundreds of public school teachers in the process. The “mini-dictators” who – appointed by Republican Governors – have unprecedented power to fire local elected officials, break union contracts, and sell off our commons to corporate interests have decided to eat alive the public school system in West Michigan and around the Detroit area. Study after study has shown that private, charter schools don't produce any better education results, but they do pay teachers less, have higher teacher turnovers, and - making Republicans happy - are union-free.

This has only been possible because of decades of corruption and mismanagement by Liberals and other left-wingers. So, is it really the Republicans that are to blame? Have the Democrats not had near total control of Michigan and specificly Detroit for 50+ years?

When the GOP and the Rich and the Corporations conspire and send all our jobs overseas which in turn crashes the global economy, don't blame Detroit for their bankruptcy.

Keep in mind almost every single city and state in America almost went bankrupt after the Bush Great Recession. Never forget that. So maybe Detroit and maybe Greece were in the worst shape of all and they couldn't survive Bushanomics ESPECIALLY when the GOP have starved them of much needed revenue.

Social Security and Medicare didn't create the national debt but I bet you blame them for it. In fact didn't we all pay into SS and medicare? Where did our money go? Oh yea, WAR.

What is it good for absolutely nothing...unless you are Haloburton.