Senator McCarthy: Too Soon Forgotten

[CrusaderFrank]

Progs: We hate McCarthy because he used his HUAC to Start a Red Scare and Blacklist innocent people like Owen Lattimore!

Facts: McCarthy had nothing to do with the HUAC and Lattimore was a Soviet asset

Progs: We hate McCarthy

 

[PoliticalChic]

Hey hey. Does this guy count and what are our yardsticks for guilt and ruined again?

Sorry to yell and all that

Haldore Hanson....

Interesting.

"Does this guy count."

Well, if he was as the NYTimes suggests....states....certainly counts as an 'innocent run over by McCarthy."

What the heck would I do then?



But what if the NYTimes is dissembling?
What if it isn't telling the truth about Haldore Hanson?


What would your response be?
Would you agree that everything I've said about the Senator is true?

That you've been lied to, mislead, propagandized?
Interesting question, huh?


Is Haldore Hanson the definitive example, one way or the other?

What if you are full of it. Hmmmm. What if everything that you believe in is false?

Wow....NoNoodles is getting angry.....

Means I'm getting to you, huh?

You're realizing that everything you've imbibed is false.

Post #187 shows what a lying rag the NYTimes is .....

So who ya' gonna believe now?


Oh...right: you'll still believe the NYTimes, 'cause that's what Pod People....Liberals....do.



I love it.

 

[PoliticalChic]

For those with a short memory or haven't read the thread, this from earlier posts and unanswered:

"From Wikipedia:
"It is well documented that McCarthy lied about his war record. Despite his automatic commission, he claimed to have enlisted as a "buck private". He flew twelve combat missions as a gunner-observer, earning the nickname of "Tail-Gunner Joe" in the course of one of these missions.[15]

He later claimed 32 missions in order to qualify for a Distinguished Flying Cross, which he received in 1952. McCarthy publicized a letter of commendation which he claimed had been signed by his commanding officer and countersigned by Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, then Chief of Naval Operations. However, it was revealed that McCarthy had written this letter himself, in his capacity as intelligence officer. A "war wound" that McCarthy made the subject of varying stories involving airplane crashes or antiaircraft fire was in fact received aboard ship during a ceremony for sailors crossing the equator for the first time."

Some hero."

More heroicism:

"In his campaign, McCarthy attacked La Follette for not enlisting during the war, although La Follette had been 46 when Pearl Harbor was bombed. He also claimed La Follette had made huge profits from his investments while he, McCarthy, had been away fighting for his country. In fact, McCarthy had invested in the stock market himself during the war, netting a profit of $42,000 in 1943. La Follette's investments consisted of partial interest in a radio station, which earned him a profit of $47,000 over two years."

Chickenhawks rightwingers on this board whine about STOLEN VALOR all the time.

But when they encounter a perfect example of it in one of their heros?

Well, then, that's okay.

We you Libs start to run from "McCarthy ruined innocent Americans by smearing them with no evidence"...

...to "McCarthy was mean! He was a meanie!!!!"


...it shows what non-thinking robots you are.
The truth is coming out......just not from you.


BTW....being 'mean' to 'em is the least I want for America-haters.

“A host of other right-wing Republicans had sought to dramatize the communism issue, but only McCarthy succeeded. And McCarthy succeeded while the others did not in part because of his thoroughgoing contempt for the rules of political controversy.”
Michael Paul Rogin, The Intellectuals and McCarthy: The Radical Specter, p. 251

He forced liberals to explain themselves in full view of the American people. So they made McCarthy the issue.
And still do.

 

[there4eyeM]

So, it is agreed he lied and did nothing for his constituency and that this is a basis for admiration.

 

[NoNukes]

Haldore Hanson....

Interesting.

"Does this guy count."

Well, if he was as the NYTimes suggests....states....certainly counts as an 'innocent run over by McCarthy."

What the heck would I do then?



But what if the NYTimes is dissembling?
What if it isn't telling the truth about Haldore Hanson?


What would your response be?
Would you agree that everything I've said about the Senator is true?

That you've been lied to, mislead, propagandized?
Interesting question, huh?


Is Haldore Hanson the definitive example, one way or the other?

What if you are full of it. Hmmmm. What if everything that you believe in is false?

Wow....NoNoodles is getting angry.....

Means I'm getting to you, huh?

You're realizing that everything you've imbibed is false.

Post #187 shows what a lying rag the NYTimes is .....

So who ya' gonna believe now?


Oh...right: you'll still believe the NYTimes, 'cause that's what Pod People....Liberals....do.



I love it.

Not at all mad, and you never 'get to me', darling. I just think that people who believe in their infallibility might be fools.

 

[Toronado3800]

I'm wondering why you seem to be avoiding the question.

After all, you selected Hanson....not I.

That seems to suggest that his nomination would offer support for your view of McCarthy.


I simply ask....what if it doesn't.

And you begin to tap dance.


Strange.


If the NYTimes....the voice of Liberalism....misinformed about Hanson....well...
...what should you suspect about the attacks on McCarthy...???


Stand erect, or be made to stand erect.
Marcus Aurelius

No really. I just tried finding a list of McCarthy victims and then checked Conservipedia to see who the most anti communist folks I could think of accused of anything.

That led me tk.skme entertaining reading on conservipedia not wanting to mention alcoholism but nothing else.

The NYTimes published many articles by Duranty during the Stalin genocide of the Ukrainians.....
...and accepted a Pulitzer for covering for Stalin.
"For some fourteen years Walter Duranty, then the most famous and respected foreign correspondent in the world — also, as it happens, a Brit — hitewashed the repressive evil deeds of the Soviet Union, leading to that country’s recognition by none other than Franklin D. Roosevelt, while winning a 1932 Pulitzer Prize for his efforts."
The Walter Duranty Prizes - By Patrick Brennan - The Corner - National Review Online


Here's the lowdown on Hanson.

1. Before joining the State Department, Haldore Hanson, had been a reporter in China for the Associated Press in the 30’s. At that time he had written a book on Mao’s communist guerrillas called “Humane Endeavor,” which supported same, and spoke glowingly of their ‘democratic revolution in Yenan, and of Mao as “ the most selfless man I had ever met,” and a “genius fifty years ahead of his time.”

2. He had been employed by Owen Lattimore at ‘Pacific Affairs,’ along with numerous pro-communist journalists, putting the best face on communism in China, and attempting to have the United States support same in opposition to the Chang KaiShek nationalists.

3. Louis Budenz had identified him as a member of the Communist Party in testimony before the Tydings Committee.

a. “Louis Francis Budenz (July 17, 1891 – April 27, 1972) (Pronounced "byew-DENZ") was an American activist and writer, as well as a Soviet espionage agent and head of the Buben group of spies. He began as a labor activist and became a member of the Communist Party USA.[1] In 1945 Budenz renounced Communism and became a vocal anti-Communist, appearing as an expert witness at various governmental hearings and authoring a series of books on his experiences.” Louis F. Budenz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

4. General Conrad Snow, chairman of the State Department Loyalty-Security Board, studied McCarthy’s charges and evidence about Hanson, and Snow stated that the charges were not, in fact, “baseless.” In fact, Snow concluded that none of McCarthy’s represented unfounded smearing of individuals.
“Joseph McCarthy: Reexamining the Life and Legacy of Americás Most Hated Senator” By Arthur Herman, p. 187-188.

a. Snow never fired anyone. He allowed suspects to quit or retire. When Hiram Bingham took over as chairman, he found “The place was full of Alger Hsses.” See “The Cold War Romance of Lillian Hellman and John Melby,” by Robert P. Newman, p. 221-222


Compare the above with the NYTimes whitewash.

So was Hanson ever found guilty of anything? Or are we just quoting whoever gave McCarthy the idea to chase Hanson around?

Look, something had to set Joe off on these folks. Some source he thought was credible.

I fear the cause for the disagreements is the level of proof various posters want. Those who "hate the reds more" have a more liberal, pro big government view. The small government lovers say "no conviction, McCarthy ruined this man for nothing".

That is why I kept asking about the where the bar of guilt was.

If no conviction is necessary then there is some evidence against all these folks which big brother lovers can use against them and McCarthy is right unless he pulled names from a telephone book. (remember those?)

 

[PoliticalChic]

No really. I just tried finding a list of McCarthy victims and then checked Conservipedia to see who the most anti communist folks I could think of accused of anything.

That led me tk.skme entertaining reading on conservipedia not wanting to mention alcoholism but nothing else.

The NYTimes published many articles by Duranty during the Stalin genocide of the Ukrainians.....
...and accepted a Pulitzer for covering for Stalin.
"For some fourteen years Walter Duranty, then the most famous and respected foreign correspondent in the world — also, as it happens, a Brit — hitewashed the repressive evil deeds of the Soviet Union, leading to that country’s recognition by none other than Franklin D. Roosevelt, while winning a 1932 Pulitzer Prize for his efforts."
The Walter Duranty Prizes - By Patrick Brennan - The Corner - National Review Online


Here's the lowdown on Hanson.

1. Before joining the State Department, Haldore Hanson, had been a reporter in China for the Associated Press in the 30’s. At that time he had written a book on Mao’s communist guerrillas called “Humane Endeavor,” which supported same, and spoke glowingly of their ‘democratic revolution in Yenan, and of Mao as “ the most selfless man I had ever met,” and a “genius fifty years ahead of his time.”

2. He had been employed by Owen Lattimore at ‘Pacific Affairs,’ along with numerous pro-communist journalists, putting the best face on communism in China, and attempting to have the United States support same in opposition to the Chang KaiShek nationalists.

3. Louis Budenz had identified him as a member of the Communist Party in testimony before the Tydings Committee.

a. “Louis Francis Budenz (July 17, 1891 – April 27, 1972) (Pronounced "byew-DENZ") was an American activist and writer, as well as a Soviet espionage agent and head of the Buben group of spies. He began as a labor activist and became a member of the Communist Party USA.[1] In 1945 Budenz renounced Communism and became a vocal anti-Communist, appearing as an expert witness at various governmental hearings and authoring a series of books on his experiences.” Louis F. Budenz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

4. General Conrad Snow, chairman of the State Department Loyalty-Security Board, studied McCarthy’s charges and evidence about Hanson, and Snow stated that the charges were not, in fact, “baseless.” In fact, Snow concluded that none of McCarthy’s represented unfounded smearing of individuals.
“Joseph McCarthy: Reexamining the Life and Legacy of Americás Most Hated Senator” By Arthur Herman, p. 187-188.

a. Snow never fired anyone. He allowed suspects to quit or retire. When Hiram Bingham took over as chairman, he found “The place was full of Alger Hsses.” See “The Cold War Romance of Lillian Hellman and John Melby,” by Robert P. Newman, p. 221-222


Compare the above with the NYTimes whitewash.

So was Hanson ever found guilty of anything? Or are we just quoting whoever gave McCarthy the idea to chase Hanson around?

Look, something had to set Joe off on these folks. Some source he thought was credible.

I fear the cause for the disagreements is the level of proof various posters want. Those who "hate the reds more" have a more liberal, pro big government view. The small government lovers say "no conviction, McCarthy ruined this man for nothing".

That is why I kept asking about the where the bar of guilt was.

If no conviction is necessary then there is some evidence against all these folks which big brother lovers can use against them and McCarthy is right unless he pulled names from a telephone book. (remember those?)

1. "So was Hanson ever found guilty of anything?"
Was O.J. guilty?


For your edification:

2. The major player in the Alger Hiss saga was fellow Communist, Whitaker Chambers. In his book, Witness, Chambers explains is disillusionment as follows. In 1938, he determined not only to break with the Communist Party, but to inform on the Party when he could. The reason was that he was informed that Stalin was making efforts to align with Hitler, in 1939, and “from any human point of view, the pact was evil.”

As Hitler marched into Poland, Chambers arranged a private meeting with Adolf Berle, President Roosevelt’s assistant Sec’y of State. Chambers detailed the Communist espionage network, naming at least two dozen Soviet spies in Roosevelt’s administration, including Alger Hiss. Berle reported this to Roosevelt, who laughed, and told Berle to go f--- himself. (Arthur Herman, Joseph McCarthy: Reexaming the Life and Legacy of America’s Most Hated Senator, p. 60)

No action was taken, and in fact, Roosevelt promoted Hiss. Almost a decade later, Chambers was called before the HUAC and named Hiss as a Soviet agent. Hiss sued Chambers, at which time Chambers presented “… four notes in Alger Hiss's handwriting, sixty-five typewritten copies of State Department documents and five strips of microfilm, some of which contained photographs of State Department documents. The press came to call these the "Pumpkin Papers"(Whittaker Chambers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

And, of course, all doubt was removed in 1995, when the Venona Soviet cables were decrypted.



3. Democrat perfidy: President Roosevelt laughed off the charges against Hiss. Dean Acheson, then undersecretary of Treasury, not only vouched for Hiss and his brother, Donald, also charged by Whitaker, but Acheson immediately requested Donald as his assistant.

Right on cue, the press vilified HUAC for persecuting Hiss. President Truman denounced the Hiss investigation as a “red herring” by do-nothing Republicans (Whitaker Chambers, Witness, p. 564-74) Felix Frankfurter and Adlai Stevenson offered to be character witnesses for Hiss. (McCarthy began referring to Stevenson as ‘Alger Stevenson.’) Eleanor Roosevelt said she believed Hiss.

But the American public listened to the hearings, and they believed Chambers: a Gallup poll found 4 out of 5 supported the HUAC.
(Alan Weinstein, "Perjury," p. 58)
And the poll included 71% of Democrats who also agreed- just not the Democrat Party!


Yet....steeped in half a century of Liberal propaganda, folks like you are unable to recognize truth.

 

[PoliticalChic]

What if you are full of it. Hmmmm. What if everything that you believe in is false?

Wow....NoNoodles is getting angry.....

Means I'm getting to you, huh?

You're realizing that everything you've imbibed is false.

Post #187 shows what a lying rag the NYTimes is .....

So who ya' gonna believe now?


Oh...right: you'll still believe the NYTimes, 'cause that's what Pod People....Liberals....do.



I love it.

Not at all mad, and you never 'get to me', darling. I just think that people who believe in their infallibility might be fools.

"What if everything that you believe in is false?"
Did you notice that I provided sources?
Didn't matter to you, did it.
Mind like a steel trap...but a rusted closed one.



" I just think that people who believe in their infallibility might be fools."
Well, if that reflects your slander of Senator McCarthy, it is certainly true.

 

[there4eyeM]

My feelings are hurt, 'Chic; no one has responded to the proof McCarthy was a contemptible liar.

 

[Vandalshandle]

McCarthy was the only poliititian in my lifetime who actually harmed the country even more than Nixon did. Hell, he even made Agnew look good in comparison!

 

[PoliticalChic]

McCarthy was the only poliititian in my lifetime who actually harmed the country even more than Nixon did. Hell, he even made Agnew look good in comparison!

Could you explain the "harm"?

Based on your posts....I'll accept small words.

 

[PoliticalChic]

My feelings are hurt, 'Chic; no one has responded to the proof McCarthy was a contemptible liar.

Contemptible is your subjective judgement....

...I've yet to see you apply that to Obama....or Reid..etc.

Now for your attempt at obfuscation:

What is apparent in this thread is that the good Senator was not lying about those he pointed out as enemies of America, and that is the nature of this thread.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

McCarthy was the only poliititian in my lifetime who actually harmed the country even more than Nixon did. Hell, he even made Agnew look good in comparison!

Progs: We hate McCarthy because he used his HUAC to Start a Red Scare and Blacklist innocent people like Owen Lattimore!

Facts: McCarthy had nothing to do with the HUAC and Lattimore was a Soviet asset

Progs: We hate McCarthy

 

[PoliticalChic]

McCarthy was the only poliititian in my lifetime who actually harmed the country even more than Nixon did. Hell, he even made Agnew look good in comparison!

Just curious.....would a dolt like you have any clue as to why Agnew was elected in his home state?

Here, let me help:

For 100 years, the Democrat Party was the party of segregation and slavery. In fact, the Republican Party was formed in exact opposition: to fight segregation and slavery.


Now, get this:

'It is interesting that one reason that Nixon chose Spiro Agnew as VP, was that he had passed some of the nation’s first bans on racial discrimination in public housing- before federal laws. He had beaten Democrat segregationist George Mahoney for governor of Maryland in 1966.'
Coulter, "Mugged."


Bet you didn't know that, did you.

 

[there4eyeM]

My feelings are hurt, 'Chic; no one has responded to the proof McCarthy was a contemptible liar.

Contemptible is your subjective judgement....

...I've yet to see you apply that to Obama....or Reid..etc.

Now for your attempt at obfuscation:

What is apparent in this thread is that the good Senator was not lying about those he pointed out as enemies of America, and that is the nature of this thread.

This thread was started about McCarthy (not Reid or..what's the other guy's name again?). If you wish to now redefine it to exclude anything that refutes your position, you may do so (to your embarrassment). It is not my job to equally praise or criticize anyone or anything. I doubt you'll see me defending much that is essentially Republican or Democrat.

At least you accept that this man, the subject of this thread that you started, was a miserable character and no one to look up to, even if (big if) he was right that boogey men were in the closet.

 

[PoliticalChic]

My feelings are hurt, 'Chic; no one has responded to the proof McCarthy was a contemptible liar.

Contemptible is your subjective judgement....

...I've yet to see you apply that to Obama....or Reid..etc.

Now for your attempt at obfuscation:

What is apparent in this thread is that the good Senator was not lying about those he pointed out as enemies of America, and that is the nature of this thread.

This thread was started about McCarthy (not Reid or..what's the other guy's name again?). If you wish to now redefine it to exclude anything that refutes your position, you may do so (to your embarrassment). It is not my job to equally praise or criticize anyone or anything. I doubt you'll see me defending much that is essentially Republican or Democrat.

At least you accept that this man, the subject of this thread that you started, was a miserable character and no one to look up to, even if (big if) he was right that boogey men were in the closet.

The thread proves that there was no "if."

What is apparent in this thread is that the good Senator was not lying about those he pointed out as enemies of America, and that is the nature of this thread.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

My feelings are hurt, 'Chic; no one has responded to the proof McCarthy was a contemptible liar.

Contemptible is your subjective judgement....

...I've yet to see you apply that to Obama....or Reid..etc.

Now for your attempt at obfuscation:

What is apparent in this thread is that the good Senator was not lying about those he pointed out as enemies of America, and that is the nature of this thread.

This thread was started about McCarthy (not Reid or..what's the other guy's name again?). If you wish to now redefine it to exclude anything that refutes your position, you may do so (to your embarrassment). It is not my job to equally praise or criticize anyone or anything. I doubt you'll see me defending much that is essentially Republican or Democrat.

At least you accept that this man, the subject of this thread that you started, was a miserable character and no one to look up to, even if (big if) he was right that boogey men were in the closet.

Well he was right and in fact understated about the boogey man in the closet because those were the people who convinced FDR to support Mao over Shek and surrender Eastern Europe to Uncle Joe Stalin

See, it mattered

 

[there4eyeM]

Contemptible is your subjective judgement....

...I've yet to see you apply that to Obama....or Reid..etc.

Now for your attempt at obfuscation:

What is apparent in this thread is that the good Senator was not lying about those he pointed out as enemies of America, and that is the nature of this thread.

This thread was started about McCarthy (not Reid or..what's the other guy's name again?). If you wish to now redefine it to exclude anything that refutes your position, you may do so (to your embarrassment). It is not my job to equally praise or criticize anyone or anything. I doubt you'll see me defending much that is essentially Republican or Democrat.

At least you accept that this man, the subject of this thread that you started, was a miserable character and no one to look up to, even if (big if) he was right that boogey men were in the closet.

The thread proves that there was no "if."

What is apparent in this thread is that the good Senator was not lying about those he pointed out as enemies of America, and that is the nature of this thread.

Sure....

 

[PoliticalChic]

This thread was started about McCarthy (not Reid or..what's the other guy's name again?). If you wish to now redefine it to exclude anything that refutes your position, you may do so (to your embarrassment). It is not my job to equally praise or criticize anyone or anything. I doubt you'll see me defending much that is essentially Republican or Democrat.

At least you accept that this man, the subject of this thread that you started, was a miserable character and no one to look up to, even if (big if) he was right that boogey men were in the closet.

The thread proves that there was no "if."

What is apparent in this thread is that the good Senator was not lying about those he pointed out as enemies of America, and that is the nature of this thread.

Sure....

For all the McCarthy opponents in the thread, although the weight of the argument is clearly against what they propound....

....there is a massive resistence to overcome in admitting they were wrong.

But you.....I'll bet that you'll think about things that you learned about which you were unaware.
And may even- in the privacy of your own thoughts- reconsider things you came in most certain of.

'Sure' of.

 

[Toronado3800]

The thread proves that there was no "if."

What is apparent in this thread is that the good Senator was not lying about those he pointed out as enemies of America, and that is the nature of this thread.

Sure....

For all the McCarthy opponents in the thread, although the weight of the argument is clearly against what they propound....

....there is a massive resistence to overcome in admitting they were wrong.

But you.....I'll bet that you'll think about things that you learned about which you were unaware.
And may even- in the privacy of your own thoughts- reconsider things you came in most certain of.

'Sure' of.

I learned some folks here and a writer named Ann have a pretty liberal definition of the word guilty.

But hey, set your bar low, set big government loose on a witch hunt and you can claim a victory.