Scozzafava backs Owens

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Nope the best way to expand federal power is through social programs. Get enough people on the dole and they won't stay sober enough to give a damn what the hell you do to some miserable 3rd worlder.

There are times when you simply can't afford the consequences of living the rest of the world to its own devices.

I disagree. It's war, real or imagined, that allows the state to grow at the quickest rate and allows them to infringe on liberties.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Dierdre K. Scozzafava's decision to suspend her campaign for the 23rd Congressional District seat is a shocking development in what had already been an extraordinary race.

In her statement Saturday morning, the assemblywoman explained the reasons behind her decision: "It is increasingly clear that pressure is mounting on many of my supporters to shift their support. Consequently, I hereby release those individuals who have endorsed and supported my campaign to transfer their support as they see fit to do so."

During the day Saturday, she began to quietly and thoughtfully encourage her supporters to vote for Democrat William L. Owens.

Watertown Daily Times | A changed race

So a supposedly conservative, really a neocon, Republican backs the liberal Democrat rather than back the other neocon. This tells me that the Republicrats are once again working together to maintain their duopoly. The Republicans and Democrats are willing to go against each other for their own personal gain, but when it comes right down to it they don't mind the other side having a seat if it means a third party doesn't get it.

Owens isn't a liberal, except maybe to the rightwing extremists who think everyone from McCain leftward is a liberal.

You're right, he's a progressive.

 

[Liability]

Watertown Daily Times | A changed race

So a supposedly conservative, really a neocon, Republican backs the liberal Democrat rather than back the other neocon. This tells me that the Republicrats are once again working together to maintain their duopoly. The Republicans and Democrats are willing to go against each other for their own personal gain, but when it comes right down to it they don't mind the other side having a seat if it means a third party doesn't get it.

Owens isn't a liberal, except maybe to the rightwing extremists who think everyone from McCain leftward is a liberal.

You're right, he's a progressive.

There is no meaningful difference between the silly term "progressive" and the fairly dishonest word "liberal."

 

[garyd]

Liability that I beleive was Kev's point. sarcasm doesn't show up well in print...

Kevin History doesn't bare that out we had several Wars prior to 1940 and the government grew scarcely at all. If the Feds dropped all social spending tomorrow four fifths of the spending and a huge amount of power over people's lives would disappear overnight. If we reduced military spending by 100% we would only reduce the size of government by 20% if that and almost all of it's current power over how people conduct their daily lives would remain entirely in tact as would the FBI, BATF, DEA, CIA, NSA, and hundreds of other quasi law enforcement bodies all of which are far more dangerous to a free people than a military sworn to uphold the constitution.

 

[Darkwind]

Republican moderates are neocons.

Not quite. Though it seems we define the term neocon differently.

Actually, the term neocon is used to describe ANYONE who does not agree with the radical leflt. So it is pretty much a useless word.

 

[Intense]

You said yourself she was a moderate. If a Republican is a moderate then they support bigger government than a true conservative would. Since a neocon believes in bigger government a moderate would be a neocon.

Except I wanted specific positions. I consider her to be a moderate because she's not against things like Gay Marriage. In the Republican Party, you won't make it mainstream with such a position. But your definition of a neocon falls somewhat short. Hoffman is not a Moderate, in fact he is far to the right. Yet he is a Neocon.

Not true. The interventionist foreign policy he supports is the best way for government to grow its power. If he truly supported limited government he'd support a noninterventionist foreign policy.

Oversimplified.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Owens isn't a liberal, except maybe to the rightwing extremists who think everyone from McCain leftward is a liberal.

You're right, he's a progressive.

There is no meaningful difference between the silly term "progressive" and the fairly dishonest word "liberal."

There's a big difference between the term progressive and the term liberal. They're completely different ideologies. Progressivism is statism, whereas liberalism is rejection of statism.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Liability that I beleive was Kev's point. sarcasm doesn't show up well in print...

Kevin History doesn't bare that out we had several Wars prior to 1940 and the government grew scarcely at all. If the Feds dropped all social spending tomorrow four fifths of the spending and a huge amount of power over people's lives would disappear overnight. If we reduced military spending by 100% we would only reduce the size of government by 20% if that and almost all of it's current power over how people conduct their daily lives would remain entirely in tact as would the FBI, BATF, DEA, CIA, NSA, and hundreds of other quasi law enforcement bodies all of which are far more dangerous to a free people than a military sworn to uphold the constitution.

The Civil War grew federal power immensely, and led to the suspension of civil liberties such as habeas corpus, freedom of press, and freedom of speech under Lincoln.

 

[Ravi]

I imagine she did it to stick a knife in the eye of the GOP. I can't really say I blame her.

 

[SFC Ollie]

First you have to realize that New York has multiple political parties, the Conservative Party in New York is relatively strong for a third party.

Next you have to realize that the Republican nominee was chosen by a few Republicans who appointed her to run. She is extremely liberal; in fact, she is widely considered to be more liberal that Bill Owens who is the Democrat in the race…

The National Republican Party and many Republicans supported Scozzafava in the race; however, Sarah Palin and several other conservatives have backed the Conservative Party candidate over the Republican. Note this is exactly what conservatives need to do.

New York’s 23rd Congressional District special election | Fort Wayne Politics

After reading different columns from both sides of the Isle I think Hoffman will take it. I could be wrong, but this is boiling down to Liberal vs Conservative. And I believe the Conservative will take it. ( Of course I could be wrong, but i think not)

 

[Polk]

Nope the best way to expand federal power is through social programs. Get enough people on the dole and they won't stay sober enough to give a damn what the hell you do to some miserable 3rd worlder.

There are times when you simply can't afford the consequences of living the rest of the world to its own devices.

I disagree. It's war, real or imagined, that allows the state to grow at the quickest rate and allows them to infringe on liberties.

While we have different readings as to scope, I agree with you on this as a general concept.

 

[EriktheRed]

Nope the best way to expand federal power is through social programs. Get enough people on the dole and they won't stay sober enough to give a damn what the hell you do to some miserable 3rd worlder.

There are times when you simply can't afford the consequences of living the rest of the world to its own devices.

I disagree. It's war, real or imagined, that allows the state to grow at the quickest rate and allows them to infringe on liberties.

While we have different readings as to scope, I agree with you on this as a general concept.

<insert obligatory Hermann Georing quote here>

 

[NYcarbineer]

The crosstabs from the last Siena poll, the one that played a role in Scozzafava getting out:

http://www.siena.edu/uploadedfiles/...ity_Page/SRI/SNY_Poll/CD23Final Crosstabs.pdf

Her supporters have a slightly more favorable view of Owens over Hoffman.

The undecideds in this poll give President Obama a 62% approval rating.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Palin is toast with the GOP powers. If Owens wins, she loses, forever.

 

[Terry]

Palin is toast with the GOP powers. If Owens wins, she loses, forever.

Starkey with all due respect in this day in time nothing can be counted on or out. I think Palin does have a role to play, a leading role I'm not sure for I for one isn't sold. I don't vote because of an R or D or I anymore. I'm just saying a hell of a lot of people are like myself.

We have not only Bush but yes Obama to thank for that. THey both got massive amounts of people totally fed up. How many, don't know but we will see in the polls Tuesday and 2010.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Palin is toast with the GOP powers. If Owens wins, she loses, forever.

Starkey with all due respect in this day in time nothing can be counted on or out. I think Palin does have a role to play, a leading role I'm not sure for I for one isn't sold. I don't vote because of an R or D or I anymore. I'm just saying a hell of a lot of people are like myself.

We have not only Bush but yes Obama to thank for that. THey both got massive amounts of people totally fed up. How many, don't know but we will see in the polls Tuesday and 2010.

Yup. Our local BOS has three seats open. I'm voting D this Tues. First. Time. Ever. The R's have screwed up and the D's running want the town taken back by the residents. They all seem to forget that THEY work for US. Hopefully, if the D's win, they'll do what they say. Chance I'm willing to take.

 

[Ame®icano]

She was another trojan horse in Republican Party.

If elected, she would do the same as Arlen Specter.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Palin is toast with the GOP powers. If Owens wins, she loses, forever.

Starkey with all due respect in this day in time nothing can be counted on or out. I think Palin does have a role to play, a leading role I'm not sure for I for one isn't sold. I don't vote because of an R or D or I anymore. I'm just saying a hell of a lot of people are like myself.

We have not only Bush but yes Obama to thank for that. THey both got massive amounts of people totally fed up. How many, don't know but we will see in the polls Tuesday and 2010.

Terry, I appreciate your balance on this point. Let me amend my statement to "I think that if Owen wins, she loses, forever." My point is that the GOP chieftans are so powerful that I believe they will make deals with the Dems before they let the palinistas have a major role in national politics.

 

[Terry]

Palin is toast with the GOP powers. If Owens wins, she loses, forever.

Starkey with all due respect in this day in time nothing can be counted on or out. I think Palin does have a role to play, a leading role I'm not sure for I for one isn't sold. I don't vote because of an R or D or I anymore. I'm just saying a hell of a lot of people are like myself.

We have not only Bush but yes Obama to thank for that. THey both got massive amounts of people totally fed up. How many, don't know but we will see in the polls Tuesday and 2010.

Terry, I appreciate your balance on this point. Let me amend my statement to "I think that if Owen wins, she loses, forever." My point is that the GOP chieftans are so powerful that I believe they will make deals with the Dems before they let the palinistas have a major role in national politics.

Who knows maybe the old style of how they operate but they just might change their old tactic's by 2010 or 2012 We will see. Interesting times to follow.

 

[Old Rocks]

I'd say unbelievable....But it's not.

Why is it unbelievable? Who wants fruitcakes like Hoffman representing them?