Schools no longer using "Pledge Of Allegiance", do you care why?

[RKMBrown]

If they don't understand it... how's it gonna brain wash em?

FYI some kids are more intelligent, and more educated than their grade level.

[ame=http://youtu.be/618U-_8o31k]Pledge of Allegiance - The Whitest Kids U'Know on IFC - YouTube[/ame]

Holy crap that's extreme, and brutal...........Awesome job making the point. Forcing groups to repeat or "chant" is the most basic tool of brainwashing. It's why sports teams do it.

It's also how groups make music together, and exercise together, synchronize activities together, etc.

Is being forced to learn the definition of a word, correctly, through rote brainwashing?

Is being forced to learn a song about love, or the history of this country brainwashing?

Is public education brainwashing?

Don't get me wrong I'm all for ending public education, I should be able to send my kids to the school of my choice with my income so I can choose what things I want my kids to be educated and/or brainwashed in. Why should I have to pay for these public brainwashing centers?

 

[G.T.]

Pledging allegiance to a nation under god is most certainly brainwashing. It automatically assumes a god, which is an unfounded and non uniform belief system not shared by and not forcibly shared by the entire populace of our children. Its actually sick when conversed out to its logical ends: brainwashing.

 

[RKMBrown]

Yeah and that evil star spangled banner thing they play at football games, that should be stopped. And the pledge the president makes when he takes office. Hell we should end all forms of showing patriotism.

They believe that the nation is inherently evil and should not exist. Or if it exists, the country must do penance every day. What you are looking at is the American equivalent of Ashura, but on a national level.

Interesting the propensity of most conservatives to seek to compel conformity and fear expressions of individual liberty and dissent.

ROFL... yeah the left have no influence on teachers unions or the requirement for all kids to be in the public education system. So now you blame conservatives for the pledge of allegiance as if pledging allegiance to this country is an evil requirement of conformance that is being foisted on the kids at the public schools. ROFL what do you lefties want the kids to pledge allegiance to the democrat party? or is this another spin at getting the kids to pledge to some world order? kids of the world unite, has now replaced the socialist/marxist chant workers of the world unite? Is that it? Is that why being an American citizen is now an evil thing?

 

[RKMBrown]

Pledging allegiance to a nation under god is most certainly brainwashing. It automatically assumes a god, which is an unfounded and non uniform belief system not shared by and not forcibly shared by the entire populace of our children. Its actually sick when conversed out to its logical ends: brainwashing.

So you want it to be a nation under no god? Or should it be a nation of godless children?

How about this pledge:

I am an individual citizen of the United States of America who only gives a poop about myself, and I believe the current Republic should be replaced with a socialist state of an indivisible world order of nations, with welfare and fairness for all.

Is that the one you want?

 

[G.T.]

No.

Next question.

 

[RKMBrown]

No.

Next question.

1) Are you for vouchers where I as a parent get to decide where my kids go to school?

2) Do you believe the public school system should have a common set of activities that are decided by our national and / or state laws?

What do you want to do with regard to the pledge?

 

[G.T.]

Number one and two are irrelevant to the pledge discussion.

What do i want done with the pledge? Its unnecessary and kind of sick/disturbing tothe idea of free thought. Its propoganda, it presupposes that everyone has a belief in a god. They dont...... It should be destroyed, save for maybe RELIGIOUS schools, but that would make t oo much sense!

 

[RKMBrown]

Number one and two are irrelevant to the pledge discussion.

What do i want done with the pledge? Its unnecessary and kind of sick/disturbing tothe idea of free thought. Its propoganda, it presupposes that everyone has a belief in a god. They dont...... It should be destroyed, save for maybe RELIGIOUS schools, but that would make t oo much sense!

Make up your mind. First you say my two questions are irrelevant, then you point out exactly why they are relevant.

They are relevant because if you want to make the decision to change the rule that the pledge should be done you have to decide who will make that decision, and where and when that decision will apply and to what schools that decision will apply.

Thus, from your very own separation of religious and non-religious schools, which I assume to be public and private schools run by religious institutions or non-secular private schools, that leads to the very relevant questions:

1) Are you for vouchers where I as a parent get to decide where my kids go to school? Such as to a school that does or does not recite the pledge.

2) Do you believe the public school system should have a common set of activities that are decided by our national and / or state laws? Such as whether or not the public schools either nationally or by state do or do not recite the pledge.

You see the whole question of the pledge, is one of scope of control of education of our children. IMO you can only have your cake and eat it the way you want if you agree to liberty, but I'll let you come to that realization yourself.

 

[G.T.]

No its actually qhite simpler then that. You assume for people too much, likely driven by your incessant need to argue. Its ok.

My solution is to lead by example. Not mandate anything or ban anything. I will tell my daughter she is allowed to skip the pledge. If she chooses to do so and is disciplined for it, i will sue.

 

[RKMBrown]

No its actually qhite simpler then that. You assume for people too much, likely driven by your incessant need to argue. Its ok.

My solution is to lead by example. Not mandate anything or ban anything. I will tell my daughter she is allowed to skip the pledge. If she chooses to do so and is disciplined for it, i will sue.

Sue who? the teacher? the principle? your city? your county? the public? the nation? your independent school district? congress? Obama? And if you win where do you think the money comes from to pay you?

Is that how we should demand liberty, by suing anyone who disagrees? How much are you willing to spend on your lawyers so you don't have to answer my two questions?

 

[G.T.]

I wouldnt be suing anyone for disagreeing with me simpleton.

Id be suing them for punishing my daughter for exercising her free exercise of non religion. Surely you see the difference? Naw, no way. You seem simple.

 

[RKMBrown]

I wouldnt be suing anyone for disagreeing with me simpleton.

Id be suing them for punishing my daughter for exercising her free exercise of non religion. Surely you see the difference? Naw, no way. You seem simple.

What part of suing people who disagree your daughter should have the liberty of free exercise of non-religion and/or non-support of the pledge confused you?

Have you always thought this much of your superiority over others, or is this a new affliction? Or is your attack on my intelligence merely an attempt to avoid answering the two questions?

 

[G.T.]

I attacked your ability to discern between conjecture, hyperbole and what was actually said.

Everyone in this Country has a right to sue when their rights are infringed upon. Sorry if you don't like it. I know, the roe versus wade and things like that make it hard to swallow, but theres always hobby lobby.

 

[Katzndogz]

At one time we instilled in every child a patriotism and loyalty to the country and its values. Patiotism is dead and we no longer share values. We have become a collection of tribes, not unlike Iraq.

 

[RKMBrown]

I attacked your ability to discern between conjecture, hyperbole and what was actually said.

Everyone in this Country has a right to sue when their rights are infringed upon. Sorry if you don't like it. I know, the roe versus wade and things like that make it hard to swallow, but theres always hobby lobby.

Your points are entirely moot. The pledge is not forced, it merely takes place. If it is forced the parents can sue and will win. This has already been established a number of times.

On November 12, 2010, in a unanimous decision,[41] the United States Court of Appeals for the First Circuit in Boston affirmed a ruling by a New Hampshire lower federal court which found that the pledge's reference to God does not violate non-pledging students' rights if student participation in the pledge is voluntary.[42] A United States Supreme Court appeal of this decision was denied on June 13, 2011.[43][44]

As long as the pledge is voluntary the issue is moot to the courts.

Thus back to my two questions.

Or you can continue to wave your hand around pretending that your kid might be being forced and if that's true your gonna sue to make some money on it.

 

[G.T.]

Which is all nice, and exactly what i said the last like six posts of mine: if its forced, i will sue.

Because its brainwashing.


Thats what i came here saying, thats what im leaving with. Your questions are irrelevant to me that discussion doesnt interest me in the least.

 

[RKMBrown]

Which is all nice, and exactly what i said the last like six posts of mine: if its forced, i will sue.

Because its brainwashing.


Thats what i came here saying, thats what im leaving with. Your questions are irrelevant to me that discussion doesnt interest me in the least.

No problem, if you can't or won't engage in civil discourse, if you will only insult and/or sue people who disagree you... well it is your liberty to be that type of person. A person who desires to resolve disagreements through the bullying of others, either through insults or via threat of financial harm through a court system.

 

[G.T.]

Its much better then suppressing someone's rights and brainwashing them as a child.

 

[RKMBrown]

Its much better then suppressing someone's rights and brainwashing them as a child.

True.

I was attempting to broker a solution based on liberty. My bad. I should have just picked the better of two ways to force my views on others than try to let us both live as free men. Much better to solve disputes of authority in court, than just create a system that allows us liberty to live as we desire.

 

[G.T.]

First off, we were talking a hypothetical situation wherein it was not discussed at all whether or not there was honest/in good faith discussion before my daughter was hypothetically disciplined for refusing to pledge -

So, there's that.....