School Uniforms

[Agnapostate]

Requiring children to cover their bodies at school is hardly authoritarian. It protects them from predators such as yourself, Pederastate.

Yeah...I wouldn't be surprised if CPS showed up on your doorstep someday, dear, with the dirty laundry you're stacking a mile high behind your trailer, bitch.

 

[Agnapostate]

Kids' rights to express themselves are taken away in school already.

To some extent. Public school students are still guaranteed some degree of First Amendment rights by Tinker v. Des Moines.

 

[elvis]

Kids' rights to express themselves are taken away in school already.

To some extent. Public school students are still guaranteed some degree of First Amendment rights by Tinker v. Des Moines.

remember that whole "obama is a terrorist's best friend" case?

 

[Agnapostate]

remember that whole "obama is a terrorist's best friend" case?

Yes. That doesn't change the unconstitutionality of excessive restrictions on student expression. The fact that they don't follow the Constitutional guidelines established as they should sure as hell doesn't invalidate them.

 

[Amanda]

Sorry for the multi-quoting...

And this isn't really directed so much at you Care, you just made a lot of points I wanted to respond to*.

kids that age can control very little..clothes and hair are one thing that they can control...why take that away from them? if you control every part of a kids life does that teach them anything?

honestly bones, i don't see how they dress should be any kind of focus at all in school....i think it is distracting from their learning....

Where to even start...

Would you know what I meant if I said you not getting it doesn't change anything for those that have to deal with it? Like, if I said "why don't poor people just get jobs if they don't like being poor?" most people would probably see that as me not getting it. And me not getting it doesn't change the life or circumstances of the poor.

My point is, it doesn't matter if it should be any kind of focus. It IS a kind of focus and thinking it shouldn't matter doesn't change that it does to those that are affected.

competition with the rich bitch's clothes, or the gang's clothes or just merely your girlfriends clothes is distracting, let alone what girl's outfit exposes the most tit, or guys crack imo, and takes away from what us tax payers are paying for....an educational system that educates our children in the 3 R's and sciences....

As others have already said uniforms are a big fat fail on addressing that point. The hierarchy still exists. Maybe the "grown ups" can't see it, but from a kids perspective that's hardly a surprise, "grown ups" miss almost everything.

putting a dress code in or uniforms don't stifle children's own control or creativity imo, school is just a few hours out of a day that they are suppose to become educated and learn discipline...the discipline of the working world in many cases....be there on time and not tardy, don't dilly dally when lunch break is over, be the most productive and work hard while there, do what your boss says...equates to do what your teacher says, principle is the boss of the teacher, like your own boss has a boss he has to answer too, and in most cases you can't go to work with a see through blouse and no bra or with pants that show your butt crack....

I don't love submitting to mindless authority. I'm glad I managed to miss having those lessons pounded into me by school.

I learned to be respectful of rightful authority from my parents. That's where things like morality or ethics or how to be a good person should be taught, not schools. Schools can't even teach math and history, how could they possibly get something subjective right?

School is preparing them for what full adulthood is like in the working world, in most cases....again, in my opinion....

I've worked in the real world and did great. My problems in the working world stemmed from others abusing their power. Power I'm guessing they normally didn't get challenged about because of how people are trained to think about authority.

i suppose i am taking the ''hard line'' on this, and i have no true experience in raising or educating children, since matt and i have not been able to have any together, and i only know or am looking at this from the way i was reared and am comfortable with....

Do you remember being a kid? I do. I just escaped that hellhole that "grown ups" designed for kids. It fucking sucked and I didn't even have to wear a uniform.

ultimately though, it is up to the individual school to set their own dress code rules...

Yea... too bad.

(my rant...)

Schools... how kids are treated... adolescence (a made up way to keep people artificially dependent)... it's all so irretrievably fucked up it's beyond description. Uniforms, if they worked, which I've seen no evidence of, would be like putting a band aid on a sucking chest wound.

I bet there isn't 1 of you here over 40 (probably even 30) that doesn't have a laundry list of what's wrong with "youth". But here's the best part... it was YOUR rules that created us. It was your schools. Your media. Your EVERYTHING. We didn't have a say in any of it, you wouldn't let us. And now you're not happy with how we're turning out. Boo-fucking-hoo.


* And I'm half lit and just got back from burying a friend that died way to fucking young.

 

[Agnapostate]

Let me add that there is specific evidence that the expansion of school violence is connected to the parallel establishment of compulsory schooling, which should provide us with insights as to the effects of authoritarianism in schools. As put by Elizabeth Midlarsky and Helen Marie Klain (“A History of Violence in the Schools.” In Violence in Schools: Cross-National and Cross-Cultural Perspectives, edited by Florence Denmark. New York: Springer, 2005):

School violence appeared to be particularly widespread during periods wherein education became compulsory for previously unschooled students. Neither the students nor their teachers had any positive attachment to one another nor to the schools. Disciplinary problems were rampant and were addressed through corporal punishment. In contrast to the opinion that leniency leads to chaos, the harsh discipline found in earlier times led, quite literally, to chaos.

We thus again see the pattern of coercive and authoritarian restrictions and disciplinary methods having the effect not of ending problems, but instead of producing a greater amount and more intense form of the very behavior that its application was intended to stymie. This is due to the fact that legitimately harmonious relations cannot be bred by coercion or force, and must instead be produced by voluntary association. Utilization of coercion or force will have the effect of producing contentious and hostile relations rather than peaceable ones, a reality acknowledged by the authors’ quotation of an astute observer's comment that “[t]here is as little disposition on the part of American children to obey the uncontrovertible will of their masters as on the part of their fathers to submit to the mandates of kings.”

 

[Care4all]

Sorry for the multi-quoting...

And this isn't really directed so much at you Care, you just made a lot of points I wanted to respond to*.

kids that age can control very little..clothes and hair are one thing that they can control...why take that away from them? if you control every part of a kids life does that teach them anything?

honestly bones, i don't see how they dress should be any kind of focus at all in school....i think it is distracting from their learning....

Where to even start...

Would you know what I meant if I said you not getting it doesn't change anything for those that have to deal with it? Like, if I said "why don't poor people just get jobs if they don't like being poor?" most people would probably see that as me not getting it. And me not getting it doesn't change the life or circumstances of the poor.

My point is, it doesn't matter if it should be any kind of focus. It IS a kind of focus and thinking it shouldn't matter doesn't change that it does to those that are affected.



As others have already said uniforms are a big fat fail on addressing that point. The hierarchy still exists. Maybe the "grown ups" can't see it, but from a kids perspective that's hardly a surprise, "grown ups" miss almost everything.



I don't love submitting to mindless authority. I'm glad I managed to miss having those lessons pounded into me by school.

I learned to be respectful of rightful authority from my parents. That's where things like morality or ethics or how to be a good person should be taught, not schools. Schools can't even teach math and history, how could they possibly get something subjective right?



I've worked in the real world and did great. My problems in the working world stemmed from others abusing their power. Power I'm guessing they normally didn't get challenged about because of how people are trained to think about authority.

i suppose i am taking the ''hard line'' on this, and i have no true experience in raising or educating children, since matt and i have not been able to have any together, and i only know or am looking at this from the way i was reared and am comfortable with....

Do you remember being a kid? I do. I just escaped that hellhole that "grown ups" designed for kids. It fucking sucked and I didn't even have to wear a uniform.

ultimately though, it is up to the individual school to set their own dress code rules...

Yea... too bad.

(my rant...)

Schools... how kids are treated... adolescence (a made up way to keep people artificially dependent)... it's all so irretrievably fucked up it's beyond description. Uniforms, if they worked, which I've seen no evidence of, would be like putting a band aid on a sucking chest wound.

I bet there isn't 1 of you here over 40 (probably even 30) that doesn't have a laundry list of what's wrong with "youth". But here's the best part... it was YOUR rules that created us. It was your schools. Your media. Your EVERYTHING. We didn't have a say in any of it, you wouldn't let us. And now you're not happy with how we're turning out. Boo-fucking-hoo.


* And I'm half lit and just got back from burying a friend that died way to fucking young.

i felt and thought the same way at your age....

you can continue to blame the generation before you for how you turned out and what a hard life you all had to face, and they can blame your grandparents for the way they turned out and how society was for them, and your grandparents can blame your great grandparents for what they were dealt etc... some day...that kind of thinking just goes away...

I never said what was WRONG with youth? I don't really think anything is wrong with them....? At least the youth that i have been exposed to are pretty good folk or young adults imo...in fact, they fascinate me...how much smarter and more street smart they seem to be, at a younger age than what i would have thought at their ages...

as far as kids being more sexual today than yesteryear, yahdeedah....well, i don't think my generation was any less sexually free than you guys....my parent's era might have been different?

And of course it is up to your parents to teach you morals, ethics, yah dee dah, but it is up to the school TO PREPARE and EDUCATE you for SOCIETY....(we ain't paying for YOUR school for any reason of your own....ya know? This isn't about what you want, and never has been...)

Dressing the part, being on time and not tardy, finishing your assignments, grading of your work, even homework are things that are preparing you for being out, away from your parents wings, and productive in the working world....schools don't ''grade'' you on these things, but they ARE silently part of the curriculum...you may not see that now, but....someday you will....and this is something mom and dad are doing as well with you...and school is reinforcing such.

Being required to meet a dress code, IS PART of ADULTHOOD and as all of us had to, you'll just have to ''get over it''!

And I also never said uniforms should be mandatory in public school? But a dress code should, whatever it may be that the school decides.

OH, and I am sorry to hear about your friend that died young Amanda!

Care

 

[Amanda]

i felt and thought the same way at your age....

Didja? Here's to hoping I don't feel like you do when I get to be your age.

you can continue to blame the generation before you for how you turned out

I think you mis-read. I'm quite pleased with how I've turned out. I give credit to my parents mostly.

and what a hard life you all had to face,

The ungood things in my life have mostly been from teachers and relatives other than immediate family. But I don't think I've had it particularly harder than anyone else. I think everyone's life presents unique challenges.

and they can blame your grandparents for the way they turned out and how society was for them, and your grandparents can blame your great grandparents for what they were dealt etc... some day...that kind of thinking just goes away...

You response is confusing to me. The generation I know of that has a fixation on blame is the baby boomers. And as far as I can tell they are their own worst enemy. But I don't know what that has to do with what I posted.

I never said what was WRONG with youth? I don't really think anything is wrong with them....? At least the youth that i have been exposed to are pretty good folk or young adults imo...in fact, they fascinate me...how much smarter and more street smart they seem to be, at a younger age than what i would have thought at their ages...

And I started by saying that what I was about to write wasn't specifically directed at you, so again, confusing that you're responding like it was.

as far as kids being more sexual today than yesteryear, yahdeedah....well, i don't think my generation was any less sexually free than you guys....my parent's era might have been different?

I have no idea how old you are, but I was sexually active before I had my first period. Do I win?

And of course it is up to your parents to teach you morals, ethics, yah dee dah, but it is up to the school TO PREPARE and EDUCATE you for SOCIETY....(we ain't paying for YOUR school for any reason of your own....ya know? This isn't about what you want, and never has been...)

Oh don't I know that. Anyone familiar with the history of compulsory education knows full well why it exists and who it serves. You owe yourself an education on this subject, check out John Gatto's The Underground History of American Education. You can read the whole book for free online. Gatto was a teacher in New York for 30 years and won their teacher of the year award more than once. It's an eye opener from someone that lived in the system you're cheerleading for.

Dressing the part, being on time and not tardy, finishing your assignments, grading of your work, even homework are things that are preparing you for being out, away from your parents wings, and productive in the working world....schools don't ''grade'' you on these things, but they ARE silently part of the curriculum...you may not see that now, but....someday you will....and this is something mom and dad are doing as well with you...and school is reinforcing such.

Have you managed to miss all of my posts where I've said I would have been happy to make my own way at 15 or 16 but WASN'T ALLOWED to? "Kids" aren't allowed to sign contracts/leases. "Kids" can't get jobs that pay well enough to live on. "Kids" can't legally work enough hours to support themselves. After about 5th or 6th grade school is a waste of time unless you're studying something there that will directly effect your career. I don't think I picked up anything but the random unless factoid past about 4th or 5th grade. I knew how to dress myself and get places on time and everything at that age. Imagine.

Being required to meet a dress code, IS PART of ADULTHOOD and as all of us had to, you'll just have to ''get over it''!

That's funny, that's the same thought I have when I hear someone gasp at half my ass showing in a short skirt.

This isn't a subject contained by school dress codes or uniforms. To see it that way or continue to frame it that way is missing the point entirely.

And I also never said uniforms should be mandatory in public school? But a dress code should, whatever it may be that the school decides.

Your incorrect use of punctuation is confusing. Maybe instead of learning to be obedient you should have paid more attention in English class. Yes, I know that was condescending, but considering the wall of condensation coming from you I think I've shown a lot of restraint.

OH, and I am sorry to hear about your friend that died young Amanda!

Care

Shit happens. I already regret saying anything about it here.

 

[KittenKoder]

Requiring children to cover their bodies at school is hardly authoritarian. It protects them from predators such as yourself, Pederastate.

Yeah...I wouldn't be surprised if CPS showed up on your doorstep someday, dear, with the dirty laundry you're stacking a mile high behind your trailer, bitch.

Luckily dress codes are here to stay, so perverts like you will only have your dreams.

 

[Agnapostate]

Perverts like me? I guess anything past first base would be "perverted" to you, with your little vanilla purity score, dear, but let's not forget that it wasn't me with the uniform fetish...congratulations on being as fucking blind, retarded, and stupid as you always are, though.

 

[KittenKoder]

Perverts like me? I guess anything past first base would be "perverted" to you, with your little vanilla purity score, dear, but let's not forget that it wasn't me with the uniform fetish...congratulations on being as fucking blind, retarded, and stupid as you always are, though.

I see you have completely given up trying to debate anything from your posts here. But you also appear to have not learned your place in society. Here's a hint, your title starts with no and ends with an e.

 

[Agnapostate]

I see you have completely given up trying to debate anything from your posts here. But you also appear to have not learned your place in society. Here's a hint, your title starts with no and ends with an e.

Well, now...you appear to be exceeding your standard level of idiocy today if you're now ignoring the fact that I posted several thorough comments regarding the uniform issue, while you responded with a retarded one-liner that fell flat on its face.

 

[JW Frogen]

All school uniforms should be banned.

They are too much of a temptation to Japanese businessmen.

 

[KittenKoder]

All school uniforms should be banned.

They are too much of a temptation to Japanese businessmen.

You don't like the one I am wearing?

 

[JW Frogen]

All school uniforms should be banned.

They are too much of a temptation to Japanese businessmen.

You don't like the one I am wearing?

Let me finish my whale burger and I will get back to you.

 

[Care4all]

i felt and thought the same way at your age....

Didja? Here's to hoping I don't feel like you do when I get to be your age.

you can continue to blame the generation before you for how you turned out

I think you mis-read. I'm quite pleased with how I've turned out. I give credit to my parents mostly.



The ungood things in my life have mostly been from teachers and relatives other than immediate family. But I don't think I've had it particularly harder than anyone else. I think everyone's life presents unique challenges.


You response is confusing to me. The generation I know of that has a fixation on blame is the baby boomers. And as far as I can tell they are their own worst enemy. But I don't know what that has to do with what I posted.




And I started by saying that what I was about to write wasn't specifically directed at you, so again, confusing that you're responding like it was.



I have no idea how old you are, but I was sexually active before I had my first period. Do I win?


Oh don't I know that. Anyone familiar with the history of compulsory education knows full well why it exists and who it serves. You owe yourself an education on this subject, check out John Gatto's The Underground History of American Education. You can read the whole book for free online. Gatto was a teacher in New York for 30 years and won their teacher of the year award more than once. It's an eye opener from someone that lived in the system you're cheerleading for.



Have you managed to miss all of my posts where I've said I would have been happy to make my own way at 15 or 16 but WASN'T ALLOWED to? "Kids" aren't allowed to sign contracts/leases. "Kids" can't get jobs that pay well enough to live on. "Kids" can't legally work enough hours to support themselves. After about 5th or 6th grade school is a waste of time unless you're studying something there that will directly effect your career. I don't think I picked up anything but the random unless factoid past about 4th or 5th grade. I knew how to dress myself and get places on time and everything at that age. Imagine.


That's funny, that's the same thought I have when I hear someone gasp at half my ass showing in a short skirt.

This isn't a subject contained by school dress codes or uniforms. To see it that way or continue to frame it that way is missing the point entirely.

And I also never said uniforms should be mandatory in public school? But a dress code should, whatever it may be that the school decides.

Your incorrect use of punctuation is confusing. Maybe instead of learning to be obedient you should have paid more attention in English class. Yes, I know that was condescending, but considering the wall of condensation coming from you I think I've shown a lot of restraint.

OH, and I am sorry to hear about your friend that died young Amanda!

Care

Shit happens. I already regret saying anything about it here.

you're drunk and dismissed!

sorry to be so condescending!

good night amanda!

 

[Agnapostate]

Uh...that sudden deviation from your typically pleasant demeanor wasn't very impressive.

 

[Care4all]

Uh...that sudden deviation from your typically pleasant demeanor wasn't very impressive.

hey, if i am going to be treated as though i have treated amanda wrongly in some way, then i might as well live up to it, no? She can debate this with me when she is sober...i will be more than happy to!

care

 

[Agnapostate]

You know, if that's how she posts when she's drunk, then she's really smart as hell and underestimates herself horribly, because those are the best points that anyone's made in this thread.

 

[JW Frogen]

you're drunk and dismissed!

!

Sorry, I thought you were talking about my biography.

Epilouge: You are rehired because I want another fuck this side of bliss.

I work only for females.