Saul Allinsky's Rules for Radicals

[Votto]

As most of us know, Saul Allinsky was a Marxist radical who wished to promote political change. He then wrote, "Rules for Radicals" to try and bring about this change. And as some of us know, he was a community Organizer that Barak Obama followed after. It has even been said that Obama uses his tactics.

So to address this charge, we must first read the rules for radicals and decide for ourselves.

1. Always remember the first rule of power tactics. Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.

2. Never go outside the experience of your people. When an action is outside the experience of the people, the result is confusion, fear, and retreat.

3. Whenever possible, go outside the experience of the enemy. Here you will have held what he perceives to be the power.

4. Make the enemy live up to their rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity.

5. The fourth rule carries within it the fifth rule; Ridicule is a man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counter attack ridicule. Also, it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage.

6. A good tactic is one that people enjoy. If your people are not having a ball doing it, there is something very wrong with the tactic.

7. A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag. Man can sustain militant interest in any issue for only a limited time, after which it becomes a ritualistic commitment, like going to church on Sunday.

8. Keep the pressure on, with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purposes.

9. The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.

10. The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition. It is this unceasing pressure that results in the reactions from the opposition that are essential for the success of the campaign.

11. If you push a negative hard and deep enough, it will break through into its counterside; this is based on the principle that every positive has a negative.

12. The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative. You cannot risk being trapped by the enemy and saying, "You're right, we don't know what to do about this issue. Now you tell us."

So what say you? Does Obama use these tactics?

 

[Redfish]

Obama has followed his mentor's tactics to the letter. With the help of the biased media.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Politicians from all persuasions use those tactics.

Rove was amazing at designing counter campaigns attacking the Dems' strongest points successfully.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Sounds like something authored by Rush Limbaugh.

 

[Sallow]

Alinsky was interested in getting housing for the poor. He thought that every American in this extremely wealthy nation should have, as a bear minimum, a warm place to sleep.

Good on you folks to make this man "evil".

It's pretty telling.

In the course of nearly four decades of political organizing, Alinsky received much criticism, but also gained praise from many public figures. His organizing skills were focused on improving the living conditions of poor communities across North America. In the 1950s, he began turning his attention to improving conditions in the African-American ghettos, beginning with Chicago's and later traveling to other ghettos in California, Michigan, New York City, and a dozen other "trouble spots".
Saul Alinsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You folks have zero interest in helping Americans with need.

 

[Votto]

I asked for people to give examples. Do we have examples of Obama using these Marxist tactics or are these charges unfounded?

For example, how are any of these tactics used in Obamacare?

Off the top of my head, I can say that Obamacare violates rule #2, which is never to go outside your area of expertise. After all, Obama is not a doctor, nor a business man, etc., he is merely a charismatic community organizer. So does this prove that Obama does not live by these rules?

But then I think to myself, to be a collectivist, you must violate rule #2. After all, if you want to run every aspect of peoples lives then you must decide such things as what doctor they see, or what teacher is teaching their children in school, and what light bulb you use at home etc., etc. In short, you must then be an expert on everything, almost like a god. I think the only way to counter this violation is to present the person in question as intellectually gifted, which Obama has been presented to us. In fact, looking back this has always been the case while the opposition is made to look stupid.

In other collectivist countries, you often see their rulers preserved under glass like Lenin or Mao. I think this is a continued effort to present their leaders as a god like presence that is still with them. After all, we are convinced that we can't live our lives without them, so when they die how has this changed? I think preserving them under glass for all to see and visit is the best compromise.

 

[Redfish]

Alinsky was interested in getting housing for the poor. He thought that every American in this extremely wealthy nation should have, as a bear minimum, a warm place to sleep.

Good on you folks to make this man "evil".

It's pretty telling.

In the course of nearly four decades of political organizing, Alinsky received much criticism, but also gained praise from many public figures. His organizing skills were focused on improving the living conditions of poor communities across North America. In the 1950s, he began turning his attention to improving conditions in the African-American ghettos, beginning with Chicago's and later traveling to other ghettos in California, Michigan, New York City, and a dozen other "trouble spots".
Saul Alinsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You folks have zero interest in helping Americans with need.

horseshit: who do you think supports church charities, goodwill, salvation army, and other local charities? hint---not liberals.

Alinsky was a marxist. He wanted to redistribute the wealth by stealing from some and giving to others. He wanted a nation that was dominated by an oppressive government that dictated every aspect of human life.

Obama is putting his ideas into practice.

I don't doubt that obama THINKS he is doing the right thing, but he is not. His liberal socialist indoctrination blocks all other forms of thought.

 

[RKMBrown]

Alinsky was interested in getting housing for the poor. He thought that every American in this extremely wealthy nation should have, as a bear minimum, a warm place to sleep.

Good on you folks to make this man "evil".

It's pretty telling.

In the course of nearly four decades of political organizing, Alinsky received much criticism, but also gained praise from many public figures. His organizing skills were focused on improving the living conditions of poor communities across North America. In the 1950s, he began turning his attention to improving conditions in the African-American ghettos, beginning with Chicago's and later traveling to other ghettos in California, Michigan, New York City, and a dozen other "trouble spots".
Saul Alinsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You folks have zero interest in helping Americans with need.

Clearly, you know nothing about the guy. The guy was quite literally a Satan worshiper.

 

[Sallow]

Alinsky was interested in getting housing for the poor. He thought that every American in this extremely wealthy nation should have, as a bear minimum, a warm place to sleep.

Good on you folks to make this man "evil".

It's pretty telling.

In the course of nearly four decades of political organizing, Alinsky received much criticism, but also gained praise from many public figures. His organizing skills were focused on improving the living conditions of poor communities across North America. In the 1950s, he began turning his attention to improving conditions in the African-American ghettos, beginning with Chicago's and later traveling to other ghettos in California, Michigan, New York City, and a dozen other "trouble spots".
Saul Alinsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You folks have zero interest in helping Americans with need.

horseshit: who do you think supports church charities, goodwill, salvation army, and other local charities? hint---not liberals.

Alinsky was a marxist. He wanted to redistribute the wealth by stealing from some and giving to others. He wanted a nation that was dominated by an oppressive government that dictated every aspect of human life.

Obama is putting his ideas into practice.

I don't doubt that obama THINKS he is doing the right thing, but he is not. His liberal socialist indoctrination blocks all other forms of thought.

He didn't steal anything.

And everyone, including myself, supports those organizations.

Its not enough. That's apparent by the number of poor people out there.

And the STEALING goes on by huge corporations who are like VAMPIRES feeding on the wealth of this nation.

 

[Redfish]

I asked for people to give examples. Do we have examples of Obama using these Marxist tactics or are these charges unfounded?

For example, how are any of these tactics used in Obamacare?

Off the top of my head, I can say that Obamacare violates rule #2, which is never to go outside your area of expertise. After all, Obama is not a doctor, nor a business man, etc., he is merely a charismatic community organizer. So does this prove that Obama does not live by these rules?

But then I think to myself, to be a collectivist, you must violate rule #2. After all, if you want to run every aspect of peoples lives then you must decide such things as what doctor they see, or what teacher is teaching their children in school, and what light bulb you use at home etc., etc. In short, you must then be an expert on everything, almost like a god. I think the only way to counter this violation is to present the person in question as intellectually gifted, which Obama has been presented to us. In fact, looking back this has always been the case while the opposition is made to look stupid.

In other collectivist countries, you often see their rulers preserved under glass like Lenin or Mao. I think this is a continued effort to present their leaders as a god like presence that is still with them. After all, we are convinced that we can't live our lives without them, so when they die how has this changed? I think preserving them under glass for all to see and visit is the best compromise.

good summary, but beyond the comprehension level of our liberal friends here on USMB

 

[Redfish]

Alinsky was interested in getting housing for the poor. He thought that every American in this extremely wealthy nation should have, as a bear minimum, a warm place to sleep.

Good on you folks to make this man "evil".

It's pretty telling.



You folks have zero interest in helping Americans with need.

horseshit: who do you think supports church charities, goodwill, salvation army, and other local charities? hint---not liberals.

Alinsky was a marxist. He wanted to redistribute the wealth by stealing from some and giving to others. He wanted a nation that was dominated by an oppressive government that dictated every aspect of human life.

Obama is putting his ideas into practice.

I don't doubt that obama THINKS he is doing the right thing, but he is not. His liberal socialist indoctrination blocks all other forms of thought.

He didn't steal anything.

And everyone, including myself, supports those organizations.

Its not enough. That's apparent by the number of poor people out there.

And the STEALING goes on by huge corporations who are like VAMPIRES feeding on the wealth of this nation.

Oh, here we go with the evil corporations again, geez shallow, do you have anything else?

On poor people, there are more now than when obama took office 5+ years ago. Obama has done nothing for the poor except make more of them.

 

[Sallow]

As most of us know, Saul Allinsky was a Marxist radical who wished to promote political change. He then wrote, "Rules for Radicals" to try and bring about this change. And as some of us know, he was a community Organizer that Barak Obama followed after. It has even been said that Obama uses his tactics.

So to address this charge, we must first read the rules for radicals and decide for ourselves.

1. Always remember the first rule of power tactics. Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.

2. Never go outside the experience of your people. When an action is outside the experience of the people, the result is confusion, fear, and retreat.

3. Whenever possible, go outside the experience of the enemy. Here you will have held what he perceives to be the power.

4. Make the enemy live up to their rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity.

5. The fourth rule carries within it the fifth rule; Ridicule is a man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counter attack ridicule. Also, it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage.

6. A good tactic is one that people enjoy. If your people are not having a ball doing it, there is something very wrong with the tactic.

7. A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag. Man can sustain militant interest in any issue for only a limited time, after which it becomes a ritualistic commitment, like going to church on Sunday.

8. Keep the pressure on, with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purposes.

9. The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.

10. The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition. It is this unceasing pressure that results in the reactions from the opposition that are essential for the success of the campaign.

11. If you push a negative hard and deep enough, it will break through into its counterside; this is based on the principle that every positive has a negative.

12. The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative. You cannot risk being trapped by the enemy and saying, "You're right, we don't know what to do about this issue. Now you tell us."

So what say you? Does Obama use these tactics?

This is an old meme.

Disproven completely.

You do know major corporate entities have been enjoying record (As in more than in all the history of capitalism) profits right?

That's a pretty poor fucking job as a Marxist don't you think?

 

[Zander]

Alinsky was interested in getting housing for the poor. He thought that every American in this extremely wealthy nation should have, as a bear minimum, a warm place to sleep.

Good on you folks to make this man "evil".

It's pretty telling.

In the course of nearly four decades of political organizing, Alinsky received much criticism, but also gained praise from many public figures. His organizing skills were focused on improving the living conditions of poor communities across North America. In the 1950s, he began turning his attention to improving conditions in the African-American ghettos, beginning with Chicago's and later traveling to other ghettos in California, Michigan, New York City, and a dozen other "trouble spots".
Saul Alinsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You folks have zero interest in helping Americans with need.

A reply In perfect alignment with Alinsky's book ! When you are losing - appeal to base emotions. Paint the "enemy" as uncaring .....

Pathetic.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Redfish]

As most of us know, Saul Allinsky was a Marxist radical who wished to promote political change. He then wrote, "Rules for Radicals" to try and bring about this change. And as some of us know, he was a community Organizer that Barak Obama followed after. It has even been said that Obama uses his tactics.

So to address this charge, we must first read the rules for radicals and decide for ourselves.

1. Always remember the first rule of power tactics. Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.

2. Never go outside the experience of your people. When an action is outside the experience of the people, the result is confusion, fear, and retreat.

3. Whenever possible, go outside the experience of the enemy. Here you will have held what he perceives to be the power.

4. Make the enemy live up to their rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity.

5. The fourth rule carries within it the fifth rule; Ridicule is a man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counter attack ridicule. Also, it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage.

6. A good tactic is one that people enjoy. If your people are not having a ball doing it, there is something very wrong with the tactic.

7. A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag. Man can sustain militant interest in any issue for only a limited time, after which it becomes a ritualistic commitment, like going to church on Sunday.

8. Keep the pressure on, with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purposes.

9. The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.

10. The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition. It is this unceasing pressure that results in the reactions from the opposition that are essential for the success of the campaign.

11. If you push a negative hard and deep enough, it will break through into its counterside; this is based on the principle that every positive has a negative.

12. The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative. You cannot risk being trapped by the enemy and saying, "You're right, we don't know what to do about this issue. Now you tell us."

So what say you? Does Obama use these tactics?

This is an old meme.

Disproven completely.

You do know major corporate entities have been enjoying record (As in more than in all the history of capitalism) profits right?

That's a pretty poor fucking job as a Marxist don't you think?

corporate profits are up because many corporations are sitting on cash rather than investing it in expansion and new ventures due to the unknowns of the constantly changing obama economy and obamacare.

Thats fine with me, my portfolio has grown, I am doing very well financially. So, contrary to your claims, obama is helping those with money at the expense of the poor.

 

[Sallow]

horseshit: who do you think supports church charities, goodwill, salvation army, and other local charities? hint---not liberals.

Alinsky was a marxist. He wanted to redistribute the wealth by stealing from some and giving to others. He wanted a nation that was dominated by an oppressive government that dictated every aspect of human life.

Obama is putting his ideas into practice.

I don't doubt that obama THINKS he is doing the right thing, but he is not. His liberal socialist indoctrination blocks all other forms of thought.

He didn't steal anything.

And everyone, including myself, supports those organizations.

Its not enough. That's apparent by the number of poor people out there.

And the STEALING goes on by huge corporations who are like VAMPIRES feeding on the wealth of this nation.

Oh, here we go with the evil corporations again, geez shallow, do you have anything else?

On poor people, there are more now than when obama took office 5+ years ago. Obama has done nothing for the poor except make more of them.

Dude.

I don't know what else to call a company like Halliburton that cut corners and killed a US soldier.

'Multiple' failures led to Iraq electrocution, Pentagon says - CNN.com

Or a company like BP that went around safety measure and wound up killing 11 Americans and completely screwing up an ecosystem.

Gulf Oil Spill Deaths: The 11 Rig Workers Who Died During The BP Deepwater Horizon Explosion

Or is the omelette egg thing for you folks?

 

[Sallow]

Alinsky was interested in getting housing for the poor. He thought that every American in this extremely wealthy nation should have, as a bear minimum, a warm place to sleep.

Good on you folks to make this man "evil".

It's pretty telling.

In the course of nearly four decades of political organizing, Alinsky received much criticism, but also gained praise from many public figures. His organizing skills were focused on improving the living conditions of poor communities across North America. In the 1950s, he began turning his attention to improving conditions in the African-American ghettos, beginning with Chicago's and later traveling to other ghettos in California, Michigan, New York City, and a dozen other "trouble spots".
Saul Alinsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You folks have zero interest in helping Americans with need.

A reply In perfect alignment with Alinsky's book ! When you are losing - appeal to base emotions. Paint the "enemy" as uncaring .....

Pathetic.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So are you saying what Alinsky was doing was "evil"?

And there's nothing to "lose" here.

 

[Votto]

Alinsky was interested in getting housing for the poor. He thought that every American in this extremely wealthy nation should have, as a bear minimum, a warm place to sleep.

Good on you folks to make this man "evil".

It's pretty telling.

In the course of nearly four decades of political organizing, Alinsky received much criticism, but also gained praise from many public figures. His organizing skills were focused on improving the living conditions of poor communities across North America. In the 1950s, he began turning his attention to improving conditions in the African-American ghettos, beginning with Chicago's and later traveling to other ghettos in California, Michigan, New York City, and a dozen other "trouble spots".
Saul Alinsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You folks have zero interest in helping Americans with need.

So how have the poor been fairing of late? In fact, what of the middle class?

The thing that you must understand is that if you want true Marxism, you must destroy the middle class. This seems to be what has happened over the decades so I would think that people like Alinsky would be happy.

I'm sure Alinsky thinks he is right about what he believes and is not trying to promote evil. I'm simply questioning his judgment. More to the point, I'm questioning the notion of collectivism as being good. Last I checked Alinsky was trying to fight for power in order to usher in a collectivist state. In fact, pretty much all left wingers I know are like this. The notion that states can individually decide policy apart from the federal government is intolerable to them. In the mind of a collectivist, one size fits all because they not only know everything, they are they alone have cornered the market on morality. In other words, anyone who is not a left winged collectivist hates the poor.

But then you look at Marxist countries and look at the mass poverty where no one has any economic power, it leaves you scratching your head as to why people continue down the same road.

In the mind of a collectivist, it did not work in the past because "WE" were not in charge.

In other words, keep doing the same thing over and over again and hope for a different result.

 

[RKMBrown]

He didn't steal anything.

And everyone, including myself, supports those organizations.

Its not enough. That's apparent by the number of poor people out there.

And the STEALING goes on by huge corporations who are like VAMPIRES feeding on the wealth of this nation.

Oh, here we go with the evil corporations again, geez shallow, do you have anything else?

On poor people, there are more now than when obama took office 5+ years ago. Obama has done nothing for the poor except make more of them.

Dude.

I don't know what else to call a company like Halliburton that cut corners and killed a US soldier.

'Multiple' failures led to Iraq electrocution, Pentagon says - CNN.com

Or a company like BP that went around safety measure and wound up killing 11 Americans and completely screwing up an ecosystem.

Gulf Oil Spill Deaths: The 11 Rig Workers Who Died During The BP Deepwater Horizon Explosion

Or is the omelette egg thing for you folks?

Yeah, and when they begin to expose you, deflect and deny. That's also in Rules for Radicals.

 

[Sallow]

As most of us know, Saul Allinsky was a Marxist radical who wished to promote political change. He then wrote, "Rules for Radicals" to try and bring about this change. And as some of us know, he was a community Organizer that Barak Obama followed after. It has even been said that Obama uses his tactics.

So to address this charge, we must first read the rules for radicals and decide for ourselves.

1. Always remember the first rule of power tactics. Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.

2. Never go outside the experience of your people. When an action is outside the experience of the people, the result is confusion, fear, and retreat.

3. Whenever possible, go outside the experience of the enemy. Here you will have held what he perceives to be the power.

4. Make the enemy live up to their rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity.

5. The fourth rule carries within it the fifth rule; Ridicule is a man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counter attack ridicule. Also, it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage.

6. A good tactic is one that people enjoy. If your people are not having a ball doing it, there is something very wrong with the tactic.

7. A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag. Man can sustain militant interest in any issue for only a limited time, after which it becomes a ritualistic commitment, like going to church on Sunday.

8. Keep the pressure on, with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purposes.

9. The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.

10. The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition. It is this unceasing pressure that results in the reactions from the opposition that are essential for the success of the campaign.

11. If you push a negative hard and deep enough, it will break through into its counterside; this is based on the principle that every positive has a negative.

12. The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative. You cannot risk being trapped by the enemy and saying, "You're right, we don't know what to do about this issue. Now you tell us."

So what say you? Does Obama use these tactics?

This is an old meme.

Disproven completely.

You do know major corporate entities have been enjoying record (As in more than in all the history of capitalism) profits right?

That's a pretty poor fucking job as a Marxist don't you think?

corporate profits are up because many corporations are sitting on cash rather than investing it in expansion and new ventures due to the unknowns of the constantly changing obama economy and obamacare.

Thats fine with me, my portfolio has grown, I am doing very well financially. So, contrary to your claims, obama is helping those with money at the expense of the poor.

Corporate profits are up because of DIRECT ACTION taking by the administration to float the markets and keep the economic situation on an even keel.

You obviously do NOT know what you are talking about.

 

[Redfish]

Alinsky was interested in getting housing for the poor. He thought that every American in this extremely wealthy nation should have, as a bear minimum, a warm place to sleep.

Good on you folks to make this man "evil".

It's pretty telling.

In the course of nearly four decades of political organizing, Alinsky received much criticism, but also gained praise from many public figures. His organizing skills were focused on improving the living conditions of poor communities across North America. In the 1950s, he began turning his attention to improving conditions in the African-American ghettos, beginning with Chicago's and later traveling to other ghettos in California, Michigan, New York City, and a dozen other "trouble spots".
Saul Alinsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You folks have zero interest in helping Americans with need.

So how have the poor been fairing of late? In fact, what of the middle class?

The thing that you must understand is that if you want true Marxism, you must destroy the middle class. This seems to be what has happened over the decades so I would think that people like Alinsky would be happy.

I'm sure Alinsky thinks he is right about what he believes and is not trying to promote evil. I'm simply questioning his judgment. More to the point, I'm questioning the notion of collectivism as being good. Last I checked Alinsky was trying to fight for power in order to usher in a collectivist state. In fact, pretty much all left wingers I know are like this. The notion that states can individually decide policy apart from the federal government is intolerable to them. In the mind of a collectivist, one size fits all because they not only know everything, they are they alone have cornered the market on morality. In other words, anyone who is not a left winged collectivist hates the poor.

But then you look at Marxist countries and look at the mass poverty where no one has any economic power, it leaves you scratching your head as to why people continue down the same road.

In the mind of a collectivist, it did not work in the past because "WE" were not in charge.

In other words, keep doing the same thing over and over again and hope for a different result.

View attachment 29289

you nailed it, nothing more to be said, end of story