Santorum says he does not believe in Separation of Church and State

[Intense]

lol... And people wonder why this country is falling apart.

You do realize that Separation of Church and State is a Biblical Concept, championed by John Locke, applied in the Magna Carta, before the US even came into being, and relates more directly to Dogma, than Principle Teachings of Right and Wrong, Just and Unjust. Could it be that it is you that is lacking in perspective here?

I look at the constitution for the answer, it's in the first amendment.

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Yep, two shoes drop there. Did you notice?

 

[Avorysuds]

You do realize that Separation of Church and State is a Biblical Concept, championed by John Locke, applied in the Magna Carta, before the US even came into being, and relates more directly to Dogma, than Principle Teachings of Right and Wrong, Just and Unjust. Could it be that it is you that is lacking in perspective here?

I look at the constitution for the answer, it's in the first amendment.

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Yep, two shoes drop there. Did you notice?

You lost me... So Santorum should be allowed to make it illegal for gays to get married on a federal level because how again?

The constitution does not discriminate based upon gender, sexuality or race... Santorum does that all on his own and it’s all based on religion.

 

[Avatar4321]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

Exactly. Is there a State Church? Nope.

Nothing about a Separation of Church and State. There is absolutely nothing in the First Amendment saying that people of faith are to remain outside the public square and shut up about what they believe, and have absolutely no say in government affairs. In fact, the second part of that amendment says exactly the opposite.

People of faith are guaranteed freedom to exercise their religion. And part of that exercise of religion and speech is to speak out on political matters.

The Founders set the system up specifically so people of faith would have a say in the government, but that the government wouldnt be able to control them. They knew there were inherent checks against the influence of one particular Church about another. One being the Establishment clause of the Constitution. The second being the fact that any religious group would be acting as a special interest group and the same checks that apply to other special interest groups would exist against religious groups.

There is a reason that the First Amendment speaks about Freedom of religion even before freedom of speech. Because it's preeminent in the rights we have before God and law.

 

[Avatar4321]

I think you meant to say "doesn't believe in that Pesky constitution."?

No. I meant what I said. I find it completely convenient that people completely ignore what the First Amendment actually says and prefer to pretend it says something completely different.

lol... And people wonder why this country is falling apart.

Some may. but I dont. This country is falling apart because we have turned away from the God of our Fathers.

 

[Avorysuds]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

Exactly. Is there a State Church? Nope.

Nothing about a Separation of Church and State. There is absolutely nothing in the First Amendment saying that people of faith are to remain outside the public square and shut up about what they believe, and have absolutely no say in government affairs. In fact, the second part of that amendment says exactly the opposite.

People of faith are guaranteed freedom to exercise their religion. And part of that exercise of religion and speech is to speak out on political matters.

The Founders set the system up specifically so people of faith would have a say in the government, but that the government wouldnt be able to control them. They knew there were inherent checks against the influence of one particular Church about another. One being the Establishment clause of the Constitution. The second being the fact that any religious group would be acting as a special interest group and the same checks that apply to other special interest groups would exist against religious groups.

There is a reason that the First Amendment speaks about Freedom of religion even before freedom of speech. Because it's preeminent in the rights we have before God and law.

Who the fuck are you talking to man? The issue is you're religious, so you see what Santorum wants to do as A OK. Santorum wants to make his religion "THE" religion, backed by law... That is the issue with that bigot. Santorum stands on stage condemning Iran for being a theocracy then turn around that same night and advocates making the US a theocracy.

 

[Dr Grump]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

Exactly. Is there a State Church? Nope.

Nothing about a Separation of Church and State. There is absolutely nothing in the First Amendment saying that people of faith are to remain outside the public square and shut up about what they believe, and have absolutely no say in government affairs. In fact, the second part of that amendment says exactly the opposite.

People of faith are guaranteed freedom to exercise their religion. And part of that exercise of religion and speech is to speak out on political matters.

The Founders set the system up specifically so people of faith would have a say in the government, but that the government wouldnt be able to control them. They knew there were inherent checks against the influence of one particular Church about another. One being the Establishment clause of the Constitution. The second being the fact that any religious group would be acting as a special interest group and the same checks that apply to other special interest groups would exist against religious groups.

There is a reason that the First Amendment speaks about Freedom of religion even before freedom of speech. Because it's preeminent in the rights we have before God and law.

And what about religious dogma becoming public policy?

 

[Dr Grump]

No. I meant what I said. I find it completely convenient that people completely ignore what the First Amendment actually says and prefer to pretend it says something completely different.

lol... And people wonder why this country is falling apart.

Some may. but I dont. This country is falling apart because we have turned away from the God of our Fathers.

The country is far from falling apart. As for turning away from God, you say that like it is a bad thing. As for turning away from your Fathers, you do know they weren't supermen, right? That had their flaws, too...

 

[Intense]

I look at the constitution for the answer, it's in the first amendment.

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Yep, two shoes drop there. Did you notice?

You lost me... So Santorum should be allowed to make it illegal for gays to get married on a federal level because how again?

The constitution does not discriminate based upon gender, sexuality or race... Santorum does that all on his own and it’s all based on religion.

It pretty much has been until recently. Nothing new there. I'd support Civil Unions, Myself, with Parallel Rights to what Married Couples receive, no problem there. Personally, I thought that was the better path all along. I know the argument is too complicated for you, some seeing it as a corruption of a Definition, using the word Marriage, outside of the Bonding of One Man and One Woman. There really is no True Authority on Anything in this Nation without the support of 75% of the Governed. All it takes for a Constitutional Amendment is Pissing Off that many People enough to get them to focus on anything Specifically, and take appropriate action. No matter what smoke and mirror tricks and diversion tactics, the Puppet Masters use, the Angry Super Majority will have them pissing in their Depends, shaking at their knees, asking for another chance to deceive. Good try though.

 

[Avorysuds]

No. I meant what I said. I find it completely convenient that people completely ignore what the First Amendment actually says and prefer to pretend it says something completely different.

lol... And people wonder why this country is falling apart.

Some may. but I dont. This country is falling apart because we have turned away from the God of our Fathers.

Uhhh.... Or because religious people are easily controlled thus the Republican party of Progressives.

Uhhh... Or because people who live on welfare are easily controlled, thus The Democratic party of Progressives.

All Democrat Presidents are religious and for Big Government, all Republicans that are Presidents are Religious and for big Government. when you vote for either one you get the same problems because the policies are the same... Spend, Spend, Spend. Here is the trick, make em like you by claiming you lowered taxes, all possible by deficits and printing the money.

You like Mitt, the guy who ran his state just like Obama runs the country... Mitt claims to be a conservative, Obama claims to be a Progressive (actually Mitt claims to be a progressive too, just depends who he is talking to at that very moment) yet their policies are the same.

You can claim all day long that the country is falling apart due to lack of faith, but in the end people like you vote for big spending, constitution hating fools who make sure you know they are Religious above all else, lol. You get played and blame everyone else.

 

[Intense]

lol... And people wonder why this country is falling apart.

Some may. but I dont. This country is falling apart because we have turned away from the God of our Fathers.

The country is far from falling apart. As for turning away from God, you say that like it is a bad thing. As for turning away from your Fathers, you do know they weren't supermen, right? That had their flaws, too...

It is a bad thing silly. Stop acting like you have something better to offer when you don't.

 

[Avorysuds]

Yep, two shoes drop there. Did you notice?

You lost me... So Santorum should be allowed to make it illegal for gays to get married on a federal level because how again?

The constitution does not discriminate based upon gender, sexuality or race... Santorum does that all on his own and it’s all based on religion.

It pretty much has been until recently. Nothing new there. I'd support Civil Unions, Myself, with Parallel Rights to what Married Couples receive, no problem there. Personally, I thought that was the better path all along. I know the argument is too complicated for you, some seeing it as a corruption of a Definition, using the word Marriage, outside of the Bonding of One Man and One Woman. There really is no True Authority on Anything in this Nation without the support of 75% of the Governed. All it takes for a Constitutional Amendment is Pissing Off that many People enough to get them to focus on anything Specifically, and take appropriate action. No matter what smoke and mirror tricks and diversion tactics, the Puppet Masters use, the Angry Super Majority will have them pissing in their Depends, shaking at their knees, asking for another chance to deceive. Good try though.

Dude, it's not hard to understand or follow, it's bullshit to claim that Santorum is right is all... As I said, it's like the General welfare clause, the FF spelled it out after the fact because some people can't grasp how basic it was spelled out in the constitution, yet these same people STILL don't get it.

Like Avatar... Yeah, I get it, you can be religious and hold office, or a Government job... I never said you couldn't neither did the constitution. But when you try and pass laws changing the constitution to push a religion's bigotry then there is issue and it's plain as day to see.

 

[Dr Grump]

Some may. but I dont. This country is falling apart because we have turned away from the God of our Fathers.

The country is far from falling apart. As for turning away from God, you say that like it is a bad thing. As for turning away from your Fathers, you do know they weren't supermen, right? That had their flaws, too...

It is a bad thing silly. Stop acting like you have something better to offer when you don't.

Well, there are the tooth fairy, santa claus and the easter bunny. They seem pretty wholesome too, and they're made up from nothing, so have a lot in common with gods...

 

[Avorysuds]

Some may. but I dont. This country is falling apart because we have turned away from the God of our Fathers.

The country is far from falling apart. As for turning away from God, you say that like it is a bad thing. As for turning away from your Fathers, you do know they weren't supermen, right? That had their flaws, too...

It is a bad thing silly. Stop acting like you have something better to offer when you don't.

I'm not religious, am I lost?

Most religious people would say yes... do you know why? Because they are arrogant and literally struggle to think for themselves, that's why many basic simple situations "shake their faith."

I’m not saying there is not a God, I’m saying religious people don’t know dick about God, God even says so… Yet you/they love to pretend you have some answer that the rest of us are looking for.

The next steps of evolution for mankind is to get away from religion where they are told by another man what their interpretation of God’s will and message is and figure out their path for themselves.

 

[Erand7899]

The United States Constitution does not contain any wording even close to "separation of Church and State", nor did the political actions of the founders give any indication that more than one or two, held any such views.

One of the first actions of the first congress was to appoint chaplains for both the House of Representatives and the Senate. Then, and now, both houses of congress begin each session with a prayer. Church services were held in the House chambers on Sundays. Congress mandated that the army and navy provide chaplains to attend to the religious needs of their men

 

[whitehall]

Show me where the Constitution specifies "separation of church and state". The former KKK member appointed by FDR to the supreme court grew up with a hatred of Catholics. When he had his chance he found a letter from Jefferson to base his opinion that restricted freedom of religion. The "Black decision" is the basis for the modern left's war on Christianity.

 

[Erand7899]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibing the free exercise of:"

At the time that this first amendment was being ratified, several of the new states still had state sponsored religions, and they did not want the federal government creating its own state sponsored religion, nor did they want the federal government interfereing with the existing state religions. Seen in that context, the first clause is perfectly clear. It prohibits the federal government from making any law, pro or con, respecting an establishment of religion.

The second clause is also perfectly clear. The federal government shall make no law prohibiting the free exercise of religion. It contains no exceptions for the government to balance the free exercise right with government deemed public good. Nor, does it limit religion to freedom of belief, since it speciafically mandates that the right extends to exercising those beliefs.

 

[Lakhota]

The Separation Of Church and State

The phrase "separation of church and state" does not appear anywhere in the Constitution. Thomas Jefferson wrote that the 1st Amendment erected a "wall of separation" between the church and the state (James Madison said it "drew a line," but it is Jefferson's term that sticks with us today). The phrase is commonly thought to mean that the government should not establish, support, or otherwise involve itself in any religion.

Things That Are Not In the U.S. Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

DETAILS: Constitutional Topic: The Constitution and Religion

NOTE: IF anyone honestly believes that the Constitution provides no wall of separation between church and state, then that would apply to ALL religions. President George Washington's Treaty of Tripoli clearly stated in Article 11 that "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion".

 

[oreo]

Yeah. he has all those people who believe in that Pesky constitution with him.

I think you meant to say "doesn't believe in that Pesky constitution."?

No. I meant what I said. I find it completely convenient that people completely ignore what the First Amendment actually says and prefer to pretend it says something completely different.

So then I must assume that you're o.k. with your next door neighbor via a ballot deciding for you if you use birth control contraceptives or not--

It's apparently YOU and RICK SANTORUM that doesn't understand the U.S. Constitution.

 

[oreo]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

Exactly. Is there a State Church? Nope.

Nothing about a Separation of Church and State. There is absolutely nothing in the First Amendment saying that people of faith are to remain outside the public square and shut up about what they believe, and have absolutely no say in government affairs. In fact, the second part of that amendment says exactly the opposite.

People of faith are guaranteed freedom to exercise their religion. And part of that exercise of religion and speech is to speak out on political matters.

The Founders set the system up specifically so people of faith would have a say in the government, but that the government wouldnt be able to control them. They knew there were inherent checks against the influence of one particular Church about another. One being the Establishment clause of the Constitution. The second being the fact that any religious group would be acting as a special interest group and the same checks that apply to other special interest groups would exist against religious groups.

There is a reason that the First Amendment speaks about Freedom of religion even before freedom of speech. Because it's preeminent in the rights we have before God and law.

Who the fuck are you talking to man? The issue is you're religious, so you see what Santorum wants to do as A OK. Santorum wants to make his religion "THE" religion, backed by law... That is the issue with that bigot. Santorum stands on stage condemning Iran for being a theocracy then turn around that same night and advocates making the US a theocracy.

Exactly--we look at Iran--the Taliban--and how they rule. They rule out of their religious beliefs and nothing else--and that is the DANGER in Rick Santorum.

Santorum does not respect or acknowledge other religions--including our forefathers--the ones that risked their lives coming to this country to ESCAPE the Church of England which had adopted the Roman Catholic doctrine. Now he wants to take over the country that THEY founded. Santorum stated that Protestants are gone from Christianity--yet many of you are supporting him. NOT ME.

Chris Hayes Digs Up 2008 Santorum Speech Stating Protestants Are ‘Gone From The World Of Christianity’ | Mediaite

This country has always understood the importance of the SEPARATION between Church and State--& for some of you to get on here and defend Rick Santorum's statement that he doesn't believe in this separation--is absolute insanity. It's his RELIGION--not MINE--and he's not going to shove his religion down my throat In my 59 years I have NEVER heard a Presidential candidate from either side of the isle state that he did not believe in the Separation between Church and State--Rick Santorum is our first nutcase.

In fact, Rick Santorum is so over the top with his Catholic religion--that he actually blamed society--for the molestation of young trusting children by Catholic Priests.

In a rare personal attack on the Senate floor, Sen. Edward M. Kennedy accused Sen. Rick Santorum on Wednesday of being self-righteous and insensitive for a column he wrote three years ago linking Boston’s liberalism to the sex abuse scandal in its Catholic diocese.

“Priests, like all of us, are affected by culture,” Santorum wrote. “When the culture is sick, every element in it becomes infected. While it is no excuse for this scandal, it is no surprise that Boston, a seat of academic, political and cultural liberalism in America, lies at the center of the storm.” How Sick is this comment?

In a speech, Kennedy, D-Mass., called for Santorum to retract his remarks and apologize to the people of Boston and Massachusetts and the nation.
“The people of Boston are to blame for the clergy sexual abuse? That is an irresponsible, insensitive and inexcusable thing to say,” said Kennedy.
Robert Traynham, a spokesman for Santorum, said his boss recognizes that the church abuse scandal was not just in Boston, but all over the country.

Throughout the United States, sexual abuse by priests has cost the Catholic Church more than $1 billion. The Archdiocese of Philadelphia has said that its records show 44 priests have been “credibly” accused of molesting minors since the 1950s.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8567264...raps-santorum-sex-abuse-remarks/#.T1WqdYd8BFt

 

[Lakhota]