Sanctuary Cities. Immigrants. Our Cities Still Need Them To Keep Thriving.

[Darkwind]

The story of immigrants is a two-way street. We all know about the extremists whose only mission is wreak terror among our population (Just look at London and its mayor Sadiq Khan who is prolly a terrorist himself). These are the immigrants we don't want.

The other side of the coin is non-terror immigrants take jobs that no one else will take. They pile into rental units where others won't rent in order to make things work for themselves. They make money and they spend money. They bring in new types of foods and services. They add to a city's dying population and the cities end up thriving.

Today, we have over 80 sanctuary cities in the US. Most are liberal urban centers. Where I live, it isn't a sanctuary city. The city is modernizing, but its restaurants, businesses, stores and such aren't full. A few places still attract a crowd. Yet, the city isn't thriving even though it's a lead city in a large metropolitan area. An example a big city not thriving would be St. Louis, MO. It has the population and the metropolitan area, but once the workday is over, people go home to their suburban homes.

"More than 80 cities in the United States,[69] including Washington D.C., New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco, San Diego, San Jose, Salt Lake City, Phoenix, Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston, Detroit, Jersey City, Minneapolis, Miami, Denver, Baltimore, Seattle, Portland, Oregon and Portland, Maine, have sanctuary policies, which vary locally.[70] "

Immigration to the United States - Wikipedia

If your city cannot thrive without immigrants, you're doing it wrong.

Illegals bring no value to any city.

Immigrants should be an enhancement to your way of life and what your city is doing, not the be all, end all of your city.

>>If your city cannot thrive without immigrants, you're doing it wrong.

Illegals bring no value to any city.

Immigrants should be an enhancement to your way of life and what your city is doing, not the be all, end all of your city.<<

My point would be your city and metro area cannot thrive without immigrants. It's not reasonable to expect such pop growth when people die daily. Your pop would go down instead of up. I don't think birth rates can keep up. Unless you can lure jobs to your area due to other reasons than increase in population, then I don't think you can spur growth.

I looked up St. Louis in my census link. It's pop has gone down and the city reflects its dying state. Didn't they just lose an NFL team? I saw stores close early and not many patrons in their restaurants and stores that open at night. I didn't even think to go drinking and clubbing there, but patronized the hotel bar.

Another non-sanctuary city, in California where I live, that I am looking at is Sacramento. It's downtown isn't as bad as St. Louis, but it's not thriving either. I compared it to San Jose, CA which is thriving in comparison. It's very noticeable.

The population isn't dying off. It's moving away. When you look at populations that are shrinking, always look at the surrounding areas. People are simply moving away from the assholes.

A city should always be able to sustain itslef without immigraion first. Immigration is necessary, but not for that reason.

Of course, My statement about illegals remains true. They bring zero value to any community.

 

[Liquid Reigns]

>>If your city cannot thrive without immigrants, you're doing it wrong.

Illegals bring no value to any city.

Immigrants should be an enhancement to your way of life and what your city is doing, not the be all, end all of your city.<<

My point would be your city and metro area cannot thrive without immigrants. It's not reasonable to expect such pop growth when people die daily. Your pop would go down instead of up. I don't think birth rates can keep up. Unless you can lure jobs to your area due to other reasons than increase in population, then I don't think you can spur growth.

I looked up St. Louis in my census link. It's pop has gone down and the city reflects its dying state. Didn't they just lose an NFL team? I saw stores close early and not many patrons in their restaurants and stores that open at night. I didn't even think to go drinking and clubbing there, but patronized the hotel bar.

Another non-sanctuary city, in California where I live, that I am looking at is Sacramento. It's downtown isn't as bad as St. Louis, but it's not thriving either. I compared it to San Jose, CA which is thriving in comparison. It's very noticeable.

Sacramento is doing just fine, downtown has been renovating the past few years, the new Staples Center was just finished and the downtown area is changing. Define "thriving" since it seems to be a bit subjective. San Jose is an Industrial city (Tech innovations), it is doing nothing more than maintaining what it has been since the late '80's early '90's. The types of business in each are distinctly different. Is there more immigration to the bay area verse Sacramento, certainly, yet many in the bay area have been moving to the Sacramento area over the past 10 years because its less traffic and congestion and a better quality of life.

 

[Humorme]

I find that people making these arguments about legal v illegal immigration to be selling a pig in a poke.

Let me see if I understand you:

You are "for" legal (sic) immigration. According to the anti-immigration activists "legal immigration" is code for citizenship. So you have no problem with immigrants provided they went through some legal process aimed at requiring people to become citizens.

Now, let us forget the fact that this year alone at least 780,000 people will take the oath and become citizens. Radical Muslims, communists, atheists, murderers, social outcasts and all manner of people you would find to be objectionable under most circumstances are welcome... they did it "legally" as you are so fond of calling it.

These 780,000 people (this year alone) can now be a part of the body politic, having the privilege of voting and then drawing out of Socialist Security, Medicare, Medicaid, AND voting in their version of what they think America ought to be.

Meanwhile, you get your boxers in a bunch because low wage people come here and work jobs that Americans obviously don't want... don't try to "school" me until you've spent a couple of weeks here with me. Here the whites and the "legal" Americans don't apply for the jobs; they don't want the jobs; they won't work them when they get them. ANYBODY who thinks differently is welcome to spend a couple of weeks with me and I will shatter your presupposition all to Hell.

But, I will not give up trying to get the substance of your argument.

>>You are "for" legal (sic) immigration. According to the anti-immigration activists "legal immigration" is code for citizenship. So you have no problem with immigrants provided they went through some legal process aimed at requiring people to become citizens.<<

Somebody will take these people. The USA has always been a nation of immigrants and this is why the US has been thriving and became #1 in the world if you ask me. Other countries are generally homogeneous. Of course, legal immigration leads to citizenship. That is the idea. I'm not sure you get this.

>>Now, let us forget the fact that this year alone at least 780,000 people will take the oath and become citizens. Radical Muslims, communists, atheists, murderers, social outcasts and all manner of people you would find to be objectionable under most circumstances are welcome... they did it "legally" as you are so fond of calling it.<<

This is utter BS. It isn't about Saddam releasing all the prisoners and sending them to his neighboring countries. The terrorists, criminals and commies are few and far between. Most are working poor. Legal or not, these people help fill the bottom level of our economy. As for the baddies, we hire police and use new technology to monitor and arrest them.

>>Meanwhile, you get your boxers in a bunch because low wage people come here and work jobs that Americans obviously don't want... don't try to "school" me until you've spent a couple of weeks here with me. Here the whites and the "legal" Americans don't apply for the jobs; they don't want the jobs; they won't work them when they get them. ANYBODY who thinks differently is welcome to spend a couple of weeks with me and I will shatter your presupposition all to Hell.<<

I want people here who will take jobs Americans don't want. Prolly any job that makes their skin darker or ruins their mani-pedis are jobs they don't want. The other guy said if you pay them enough, then Americans will take the jobs, but this isn't true. Besides, what businessperson in their right minds wants to pay $15 or more minimum wage for people to do these unskilled jobs?

>>But, I will not give up trying to get the substance of your argument.<<

My argument is about my city thriving and having a sanctuary city in today's environment guarantees that my city will thrive. You can be a redneck and disallow immigrants, but your city will end up stagnating as its population will go down. People die daily. It doesn't matter if you build out suburbs in these metro centers when its population goes down. The whole area's economy will suffer. People will move to where there are jobs and when the population of a city goes up, then that's where the big companies will want to take advantage of. Companies who build out in towns and cities that aren't growing and thriving will go downhill.

Dude, for real. You need to learn how to quote people so that the rest of us can tell when one poster's comments begin and end and where yours starts and ends.

Having done extensive work in immigration law, I can tell you, for a fact, that most people who come here and either enter or remain after their visa expires do not want to become citizens. So, you obviously do not get it.

Between 1986 and 2001 America offered SEVEN amnesties for those without papers. Fewer than half applied! That should tell you something. Not everybody who comes here wants to become a citizen NOR do they need to become a citizen.

The very first Naturalization Act in the United States was in 1790. It limited citizenship to whites. Still people came here by the millions to take advantage of opportunities willingly offered.

And while you're stomping your feet yelling bullshit, the fact is more violent crimes in the past decade have been committed by "legal" immigrants and their immediate offspring than by American citizens and undocumented immigrants combined!!!

America has an immigration problem, but it cannot be resolved with the build the wall, deport 'em all mantra. I'm against mass deportations, the nutty wall idea, and it's inevitable outcome - the ultimate POLICE STATE.

>>Dude, for real. You need to learn how to quote people so that the rest of us can tell when one poster's comments begin and end and where yours starts and ends.<<

Your quote is in between my arrows.

>>Having done extensive work in immigration law, I can tell you, for a fact, that most people who come here and either enter or remain after their visa expires do not want to become citizens. So, you obviously do not get it.<<

Some will not want to become citizens, but our history shows different. Most of the poor have become citizens.

>>Between 1986 and 2001 America offered SEVEN amnesties for those without papers. Fewer than half applied! That should tell you something. Not everybody who comes here wants to become a citizen NOR do they need to become a citizen.

The very first Naturalization Act in the United States was in 1790. It limited citizenship to whites. Still people came here by the millions to take advantage of opportunities willingly offered.<<

What it tells me is the today's illegals don't trust the system. Otherwise, why do we need sanctuary cities?

>>And while you're stomping your feet yelling bullshit, the fact is more violent crimes in the past decade have been committed by "legal" immigrants and their immediate offspring than by American citizens and undocumented immigrants combined!!!

America has an immigration problem, but it cannot be resolved with the build the wall, deport 'em all mantra. I'm against mass deportations, the nutty wall idea, and it's inevitable outcome - the ultimate POLICE STATE.<<

I think you're referring to illegals who were criminals. They should be fingerprinted, have high-res photos taken of them and deported. If they come back into the country, then we'll be able to track and arrest them for deportation.

I'm against the wall. That seems un-American and it's more suitable if we are a country at war with our neighbors and under attack. The wall has become a symbol for being against illegal immigration that Obumba and the Democrats allowed.

You're new at this. This is really going to hurt.

As much as I find Barack Obama to be an objectionable human being, the right should embrace him. He did not create the immigration debacle. As president, he deported more undocumented foreigners than any previous president.

The hard core, no-nonsense, bottom line reality is that our Constitution does not give the federal government any jurisdiction over immigration. The federal government only has one job with respect to foreigners. It's listed in Article I Section 8 of the United States Constitution. Here is the sum total of the federal government's lawful / de jure / constitutional jurisdiction:

"To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization"

That's it. The word immigration isn't even IN the Constitution. Furthermore, in the Tenth Amendment, you find this:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."

So, how did we get to this point of the federal government controlling immigration?

In 1876 the United States Supreme Court granted "plenary powers" over immigration to Congress in the case of Chy Lung v. Freeman. Here's the problem: Under our Constitution the United States Supreme Court has NO authority to grant to any other branch of government ANY power. The United States Supreme Court literally legislated from the bench in attacking a state's right.

Ironically, the High Court chastised the California Commissioner of Immigration and the Sheriff of San Francisco for not presenting a defense in the Chy Lung case. So, what I'm telling you is that the issue of legal v. illegal aliens is constitutionally bogus. States are constitutionally free to invite whomever they want into the United States. It's just that the federal government realizes the absolute clusterphuck they've created and they're almost powerless to do anything that affects the bottom line without turning America into a complete and total dictatorship.

Immigration isn't the object of this thread, but sanctuary cities and their positive effect on our economy and how these key cities fuel their metropolitan areas.

"There's no legal definition of a sanctuary city, county or state, and what it means varies from place to place. But jurisdictions that fall under that controversial term -- supporters oppose it -- generally have policies or laws that limit the extent to which law enforcement and other government employees will go to assist the federal government on immigration matters.

Some communities use nonbinding resolutions, executive orders, police department policies or orders, while others use laws to enforce such policies, according to the Congressional Research Service.

In San Francisco, for instance, a 1989 law called the City and County of Refuge ordinance prohibits city employees from helping federal immigration enforcement efforts unless compelled by court order or state law.

How many are there?
More than 200 state and local jurisdictions have policies that call for not honoring U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement detention requests, the agency's director, Sarah Saldana, told Congress in March.

What's their history?
The sanctuary movement is said to have grown out of efforts by churches in the 1980s to provide sanctuary to Central Americans fleeing violence at home amid reluctance by the federal government to grant them refugee status.
It's also a product of the long-running national immigration debate, in which officials in some more diverse and liberal communities sometimes take issue with aggressive immigration enforcement efforts.

What's the argument for sanctuary status?
Proponents say that by encouraging members of immigrant communities to work with police without fear of deportation, such policies help authorities improve public safety by helping authorities identify and arrest dangerous criminals who might otherwise go undetected.

"I firmly believe it makes us safer," San Francisco Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi told CNN's "The Lead with Jake Tapper." "We're a world-renowned city with a large immigrant population. ... From a law enforcement perspective, we want to build trust with that population."
"
What's a 'sanctuary city,' and why should you care? - CNN

AFAIK and what I am concerned about is hiring illegals. Isn't there some kind of law that penalizes employers who do now? I thought it was federal law. Hiring someone with a green card and visa is fine.

I was following the former Sheriif Joe Arpaio case earlier. We just saw him released from jail. How do you think he got screwed or did he deserve to get what he got in regard to the points you make?

Joe had the option of obeying the law. He didn't.

There are laws that penalize people for hiring undocumented workers, but nobody is bound to obey an unconstitutional law. If the employer created the job, it should be up to the employer to give the job to whomever in the Hell they want. What's the point of working to have private property if someone else can just walk onto your private property and take from you?

You bitch about people who are trespassing to get here, but you would fix it by having people trespass on private property and demand a job just because they are Americans?

When you go to the store, does anybody force you to buy products made in China? If you care so much about American jobs, why are you buying something made in China?

 

[JimBowie1958]

There are laws that penalize people for hiring undocumented workers, but nobody is bound to obey an unconstitutional law. If the employer created the job, it should be up to the employer to give the job to whomever in the Hell they want.

Bullshit.

You dont get to use our infrastructure and taxpayer funded programs and pass over Americans because you are too greedy to pay a living wage.

IF you dont like it, immigrate to somewhere else.

 

[Correll]

The story of immigrants is a two-way street. We all know about the extremists whose only mission is wreak terror among our population (Just look at London and its mayor Sadiq Khan who is prolly a terrorist himself). These are the immigrants we don't want.

The other side of the coin is non-terror immigrants take jobs that no one else will take. They pile into rental units where others won't rent in order to make things work for themselves. They make money and they spend money. They bring in new types of foods and services. They add to a city's dying population and the cities end up thriving.

Today, we have over 80 sanctuary cities in the US. Most are liberal urban centers. Where I live, it isn't a sanctuary city. The city is modernizing, but its restaurants, businesses, stores and such aren't full. A few places still attract a crowd. Yet, the city isn't thriving even though it's a lead city in a large metropolitan area. An example a big city not thriving would be St. Louis, MO. It has the population and the metropolitan area, but once the workday is over, people go home to their suburban homes.

"More than 80 cities in the United States,[69] including Washington D.C., New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco, San Diego, San Jose, Salt Lake City, Phoenix, Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston, Detroit, Jersey City, Minneapolis, Miami, Denver, Baltimore, Seattle, Portland, Oregon and Portland, Maine, have sanctuary policies, which vary locally.[70] "

Immigration to the United States - Wikipedia

I live in a city without a lot of illegals. I pay a white American to cut my grass. It is not ruinously expensive.

>>I live in a city without a lot of illegals. I pay a white American to cut my grass. It is not ruinously expensive.<<

My OP isn't about race so much as immigration or in today's world illegal immigration. My personal beliefs are that there should be a clear established line. I rather have legal immigration, but the liberals allowed illegal immigration and we're stuck with it. It doesn't make sense to deport all the illegals and maybe some can get legal status. Thus, we have the sanctuary cities and their policies. If you want to make it about race, in this case, whites, then it's about smart whites vs not so smart whites who run these cities. It's not just whites who run these cities, but I'm just making it simple.

Maybe having a white American cut your grass is a sign of quality in your city. However, I don't think it will last.

Basically what I'm saying is the sanctuary cities will thrive more and your city won't be thriving as much. People die daily. You can't just get 100,000K increase in population in a few years through birth.

I was not making it about race. I made it about having an American cut the grass, ie a job that "no one else will take".


A growing population of Third Worlders that bring their Third World Problems is not a thriving city.


Give me a city full of Americans with their First World Problems, and I'll live with fewer traffic jams and lower crime.


Quality of life is not defined by macro economic growth, but by per capital growth.


A flood of poor is not the answer.

>>I was not making it about race. I made it about having an American cut the grass, ie a job that "no one else will take".


A growing population of Third Worlders that bring their Third World Problems is not a thriving city.


Give me a city full of Americans with their First World Problems, and I'll live with fewer traffic jams and lower crime.


Quality of life is not defined by macro economic growth, but by per capital growth.


A flood of poor is not the answer.<<

It was about white Americans, so it was about race. As for the rest, it's full of the same type of racial thinking so no amount of good ol' fashioned logic will convince you to have sanctuary cities in today's world. Like I said, my argument isn't about race, but how our cities and metro centers grew out and thrived and that's through increase in population of immigrants. Add to this, breakthroughs in technology or invention and the pace of success goes even faster and becomes more dramatic. This isn't about liking kabobs and eating it. Or it could be pho and eating that. Some people will like trying new dishes and it becomes part of the American culture. I don't mind immigrants in this country as long as they don't take American jobs or hgh paying jobs Americans want. Unfortunately, this has been happening, too.

I mentioned race (white) because I thought it likely that a counter response would have been to question if it was a poor minority.


An American is happily doing a job that supposedly Americans won't do.

Actually it is a couple, the man was hired but he often brings his wife to help him get done faster, and then they move to their next job.


For all I know they might be busy enough to be making quite a nice life.


THe scenario you describe does NOT seem to be what we are getting.


This is not a happy dynamic culture.


The Forces Driving Middle-Aged White People's 'Deaths Of Despair'


"In 2015, when researchers Anne Case and Angus Deaton discovered that death rates had been rising dramatically since 1999 among middle-aged white Americans, they weren't sure why people were dying younger, reversing decades of longer life expectancy.

Now the husband-and-wife economists say they have a better understanding of what's causing these "deaths of despair" by suicide, drugs and alcohol.



In a follow-up to their groundbreaking 2015 work, they say that a lack of steady, well-paying jobs for whites without college degrees has caused pain, distress and social dysfunction to build up over time. The mortality rate for that group, ages 45 to 54, increased by a half percent each year from 1999 to 2013."

 

[Correll]

The story of immigrants is a two-way street. We all know about the extremists whose only mission is wreak terror among our population (Just look at London and its mayor Sadiq Khan who is prolly a terrorist himself). These are the immigrants we don't want.

The other side of the coin is non-terror immigrants take jobs that no one else will take. They pile into rental units where others won't rent in order to make things work for themselves. They make money and they spend money. They bring in new types of foods and services. They add to a city's dying population and the cities end up thriving.

Today, we have over 80 sanctuary cities in the US. Most are liberal urban centers. Where I live, it isn't a sanctuary city. The city is modernizing, but its restaurants, businesses, stores and such aren't full. A few places still attract a crowd. Yet, the city isn't thriving even though it's a lead city in a large metropolitan area. An example a big city not thriving would be St. Louis, MO. It has the population and the metropolitan area, but once the workday is over, people go home to their suburban homes.

"More than 80 cities in the United States,[69] including Washington D.C., New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco, San Diego, San Jose, Salt Lake City, Phoenix, Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston, Detroit, Jersey City, Minneapolis, Miami, Denver, Baltimore, Seattle, Portland, Oregon and Portland, Maine, have sanctuary policies, which vary locally.[70] "

Immigration to the United States - Wikipedia

I live in a city without a lot of illegals. I pay a white American to cut my grass. It is not ruinously expensive.

You hate all minorities anyway. So what is your point.

That Americans will do those jobs, you race baiting asshole.

 

[Correll]

The story of immigrants is a two-way street. We all know about the extremists whose only mission is wreak terror among our population (Just look at London and its mayor Sadiq Khan who is prolly a terrorist himself). These are the immigrants we don't want.

The other side of the coin is non-terror immigrants take jobs that no one else will take. They pile into rental units where others won't rent in order to make things work for themselves. They make money and they spend money. They bring in new types of foods and services. They add to a city's dying population and the cities end up thriving.

Today, we have over 80 sanctuary cities in the US. Most are liberal urban centers. Where I live, it isn't a sanctuary city. The city is modernizing, but its restaurants, businesses, stores and such aren't full. A few places still attract a crowd. Yet, the city isn't thriving even though it's a lead city in a large metropolitan area. An example a big city not thriving would be St. Louis, MO. It has the population and the metropolitan area, but once the workday is over, people go home to their suburban homes.

"More than 80 cities in the United States,[69] including Washington D.C., New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco, San Diego, San Jose, Salt Lake City, Phoenix, Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston, Detroit, Jersey City, Minneapolis, Miami, Denver, Baltimore, Seattle, Portland, Oregon and Portland, Maine, have sanctuary policies, which vary locally.[70] "

Immigration to the United States - Wikipedia

If your city cannot thrive without immigrants, you're doing it wrong.

Illegals bring no value to any city.

Immigrants should be an enhancement to your way of life and what your city is doing, not the be all, end all of your city.

"San Francisco, CA average salary is $99,284, median salary is $94,191 with a salary range from $21,439 to $1,826,000."

San Francisco Salaries, Average Salary & Jobs Pay in San Francisco, CA

Unemployment rate for San Francisco is 3.3 percent

unemployment rate for san francisco - Bing

San Francisco is a sanctuary city

The average yearly income in Atlanta is $60,219

atlanta annual income - Bing

The unemployment rate in Atlanta is 5. 5 percent

Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Roswell, Georgia Metropolitan Unemployment Rate and Total Unemployed | Department of Numbers

Atlanta is NOT a sanctuary city.

Do you understand my skepticism with your post?

But what is the cost of living in san francisco.



I live in a rust belt city. i know a guy who moved here a few years ago from California and he had interesting things to say about the way illegals live and work, pretty much as slaves.


Interestingly enough, he is a died in the wool lefties, and yet, could make no connection between the fact of slave labor and Democratic city and state.


He blamed it all on the "corruption" you see in "all port cities". LOL!!!

 

[Humorme]

There are laws that penalize people for hiring undocumented workers, but nobody is bound to obey an unconstitutional law. If the employer created the job, it should be up to the employer to give the job to whomever in the Hell they want.

Bullshit.

You dont get to use our infrastructure and taxpayer funded programs and pass over Americans because you are too greedy to pay a living wage.

IF you dont like it, immigrate to somewhere else.

There are no laws that mandate a "living wage."

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

An excerpt from the Declaration of Independence

“The Declaration of Independence... [is the] declaratory charter of our rights, and of the rights of man.”
--Thomas Jefferson

You were saying????????

 

[Humorme]

The story of immigrants is a two-way street. We all know about the extremists whose only mission is wreak terror among our population (Just look at London and its mayor Sadiq Khan who is prolly a terrorist himself). These are the immigrants we don't want.

The other side of the coin is non-terror immigrants take jobs that no one else will take. They pile into rental units where others won't rent in order to make things work for themselves. They make money and they spend money. They bring in new types of foods and services. They add to a city's dying population and the cities end up thriving.

Today, we have over 80 sanctuary cities in the US. Most are liberal urban centers. Where I live, it isn't a sanctuary city. The city is modernizing, but its restaurants, businesses, stores and such aren't full. A few places still attract a crowd. Yet, the city isn't thriving even though it's a lead city in a large metropolitan area. An example a big city not thriving would be St. Louis, MO. It has the population and the metropolitan area, but once the workday is over, people go home to their suburban homes.

"More than 80 cities in the United States,[69] including Washington D.C., New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco, San Diego, San Jose, Salt Lake City, Phoenix, Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston, Detroit, Jersey City, Minneapolis, Miami, Denver, Baltimore, Seattle, Portland, Oregon and Portland, Maine, have sanctuary policies, which vary locally.[70] "

Immigration to the United States - Wikipedia

If your city cannot thrive without immigrants, you're doing it wrong.

Illegals bring no value to any city.

Immigrants should be an enhancement to your way of life and what your city is doing, not the be all, end all of your city.

"San Francisco, CA average salary is $99,284, median salary is $94,191 with a salary range from $21,439 to $1,826,000."

San Francisco Salaries, Average Salary & Jobs Pay in San Francisco, CA

Unemployment rate for San Francisco is 3.3 percent

unemployment rate for san francisco - Bing

San Francisco is a sanctuary city

The average yearly income in Atlanta is $60,219

atlanta annual income - Bing

The unemployment rate in Atlanta is 5. 5 percent

Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Roswell, Georgia Metropolitan Unemployment Rate and Total Unemployed | Department of Numbers

Atlanta is NOT a sanctuary city.

Do you understand my skepticism with your post?

But what is the cost of living in san francisco.



I live in a rust belt city. i know a guy who moved here a few years ago from California and he had interesting things to say about the way illegals live and work, pretty much as slaves.


Interestingly enough, he is a died in the wool lefties, and yet, could make no connection between the fact of slave labor and Democratic city and state.


He blamed it all on the "corruption" you see in "all port cities". LOL!!!

The undocumented population in San Francisco must be satisfied with the wage structure as they could easily make it to many other cities / states that have no sanctuary cities.

The KKK used to argue that we could raise the wages of whites in this country if we shipped the blacks back to Africa. We used to have this guy, J.B. Stoner, that would get on tv during the elections and promise the people that "If you elect me governor of Georgia, I'll work to ship all the (expletive deleted) back to Africa."

Nobody really thought that was a viable option; stoner would garner, at best 30,000 votes. That was probably 2 percent of the population. Now it's 28 percent of the population when the skin color went from black to brown. Amazing.

 

[Correll]

The story of immigrants is a two-way street. We all know about the extremists whose only mission is wreak terror among our population (Just look at London and its mayor Sadiq Khan who is prolly a terrorist himself). These are the immigrants we don't want.

The other side of the coin is non-terror immigrants take jobs that no one else will take. They pile into rental units where others won't rent in order to make things work for themselves. They make money and they spend money. They bring in new types of foods and services. They add to a city's dying population and the cities end up thriving.

Today, we have over 80 sanctuary cities in the US. Most are liberal urban centers. Where I live, it isn't a sanctuary city. The city is modernizing, but its restaurants, businesses, stores and such aren't full. A few places still attract a crowd. Yet, the city isn't thriving even though it's a lead city in a large metropolitan area. An example a big city not thriving would be St. Louis, MO. It has the population and the metropolitan area, but once the workday is over, people go home to their suburban homes.

"More than 80 cities in the United States,[69] including Washington D.C., New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco, San Diego, San Jose, Salt Lake City, Phoenix, Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston, Detroit, Jersey City, Minneapolis, Miami, Denver, Baltimore, Seattle, Portland, Oregon and Portland, Maine, have sanctuary policies, which vary locally.[70] "

Immigration to the United States - Wikipedia

If your city cannot thrive without immigrants, you're doing it wrong.

Illegals bring no value to any city.

Immigrants should be an enhancement to your way of life and what your city is doing, not the be all, end all of your city.

"San Francisco, CA average salary is $99,284, median salary is $94,191 with a salary range from $21,439 to $1,826,000."

San Francisco Salaries, Average Salary & Jobs Pay in San Francisco, CA

Unemployment rate for San Francisco is 3.3 percent

unemployment rate for san francisco - Bing

San Francisco is a sanctuary city

The average yearly income in Atlanta is $60,219

atlanta annual income - Bing

The unemployment rate in Atlanta is 5. 5 percent

Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Roswell, Georgia Metropolitan Unemployment Rate and Total Unemployed | Department of Numbers

Atlanta is NOT a sanctuary city.

Do you understand my skepticism with your post?

But what is the cost of living in san francisco.



I live in a rust belt city. i know a guy who moved here a few years ago from California and he had interesting things to say about the way illegals live and work, pretty much as slaves.


Interestingly enough, he is a died in the wool lefties, and yet, could make no connection between the fact of slave labor and Democratic city and state.


He blamed it all on the "corruption" you see in "all port cities". LOL!!!

The undocumented population in San Francisco must be satisfied with the wage structure as they could easily make it to many other cities / states that have no sanctuary cities.

I think you underestimate the barriers that could be in place, from violent criminals they owe money to, to the poverty that prevents them from affording a bus ticket, to the fear of travelling as a criminal in a society they do not speak the language.






The KKK used to argue that we could raise the wages of whites in this country if we shipped the blacks back to Africa. We used to have this guy, J.B. Stoner, that would get on tv during the elections and promise the people that "If you elect me governor of Georgia, I'll work to ship all the (expletive deleted) back to Africa."

Nobody really thought that was a viable option; stoner would garner, at best 30,000 votes. That was probably 2 percent of the population. Now it's 28 percent of the population when the skin color went from black to brown. Amazing.[/QUOTE]



Supply and demand is real. I've seen it is the difference in wages from a big city, with large poor populations, to smaller cities/towns without such large pools of labor.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

The story of immigrants is a two-way street. We all know about the extremists whose only mission is wreak terror among our population (Just look at London and its mayor Sadiq Khan who is prolly a terrorist himself). These are the immigrants we don't want.

The other side of the coin is non-terror immigrants take jobs that no one else will take. They pile into rental units where others won't rent in order to make things work for themselves. They make money and they spend money. They bring in new types of foods and services. They add to a city's dying population and the cities end up thriving.

Today, we have over 80 sanctuary cities in the US. Most are liberal urban centers. Where I live, it isn't a sanctuary city. The city is modernizing, but its restaurants, businesses, stores and such aren't full. A few places still attract a crowd. Yet, the city isn't thriving even though it's a lead city in a large metropolitan area. An example a big city not thriving would be St. Louis, MO. It has the population and the metropolitan area, but once the workday is over, people go home to their suburban homes.

"More than 80 cities in the United States,[69] including Washington D.C., New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco, San Diego, San Jose, Salt Lake City, Phoenix, Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston, Detroit, Jersey City, Minneapolis, Miami, Denver, Baltimore, Seattle, Portland, Oregon and Portland, Maine, have sanctuary policies, which vary locally.[70] "

Immigration to the United States - Wikipedia

Owners Aren't Earners

The American working force determines wages, not GreedHead businessmen. If they go bankrupt paying decent wages, that just proves your deified omniscient heroes were incompetent at running an honest business. Treason is not a property right. Only a sissy lets the plutocracy make the rules.

 

[Liquid Reigns]

The undocumented population in San Francisco must be satisfied with the wage structure as they could easily make it to many other cities / states that have no sanctuary cities.

Illegals don't live in San Francisco, they simply work there, on the docks or in the restaurants and hotels, or various other small types of business. They couldn't afford to live there, which is why they live in cities outside of SF like Oakland and Hayward and commute in.

The city approved a Sanctuary City policy in 1989 prohibiting city officials from enforcing immigration laws in most cases as a way to encourage immigrant communities to trust and cooperate with police.

A second 2013 ordinance, Due Process for All, prohibits San Francisco law enforcement from detaining people on behalf of immigration authorities for deportation unless they are wanted for a serious crime.

 

[JimBowie1958]

There are no laws that mandate a "living wage."

Maybe not yet where you run your sweat shop, but thanks to idjits like you, there will be, all over the country.

 

[Humorme]

The story of immigrants is a two-way street. We all know about the extremists whose only mission is wreak terror among our population (Just look at London and its mayor Sadiq Khan who is prolly a terrorist himself). These are the immigrants we don't want.

The other side of the coin is non-terror immigrants take jobs that no one else will take. They pile into rental units where others won't rent in order to make things work for themselves. They make money and they spend money. They bring in new types of foods and services. They add to a city's dying population and the cities end up thriving.

Today, we have over 80 sanctuary cities in the US. Most are liberal urban centers. Where I live, it isn't a sanctuary city. The city is modernizing, but its restaurants, businesses, stores and such aren't full. A few places still attract a crowd. Yet, the city isn't thriving even though it's a lead city in a large metropolitan area. An example a big city not thriving would be St. Louis, MO. It has the population and the metropolitan area, but once the workday is over, people go home to their suburban homes.

"More than 80 cities in the United States,[69] including Washington D.C., New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco, San Diego, San Jose, Salt Lake City, Phoenix, Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston, Detroit, Jersey City, Minneapolis, Miami, Denver, Baltimore, Seattle, Portland, Oregon and Portland, Maine, have sanctuary policies, which vary locally.[70] "

Immigration to the United States - Wikipedia

If your city cannot thrive without immigrants, you're doing it wrong.

Illegals bring no value to any city.

Immigrants should be an enhancement to your way of life and what your city is doing, not the be all, end all of your city.

"San Francisco, CA average salary is $99,284, median salary is $94,191 with a salary range from $21,439 to $1,826,000."

San Francisco Salaries, Average Salary & Jobs Pay in San Francisco, CA

Unemployment rate for San Francisco is 3.3 percent

unemployment rate for san francisco - Bing

San Francisco is a sanctuary city

The average yearly income in Atlanta is $60,219

atlanta annual income - Bing

The unemployment rate in Atlanta is 5. 5 percent

Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Roswell, Georgia Metropolitan Unemployment Rate and Total Unemployed | Department of Numbers

Atlanta is NOT a sanctuary city.

Do you understand my skepticism with your post?

But what is the cost of living in san francisco.



I live in a rust belt city. i know a guy who moved here a few years ago from California and he had interesting things to say about the way illegals live and work, pretty much as slaves.


Interestingly enough, he is a died in the wool lefties, and yet, could make no connection between the fact of slave labor and Democratic city and state.


He blamed it all on the "corruption" you see in "all port cities". LOL!!!

The undocumented population in San Francisco must be satisfied with the wage structure as they could easily make it to many other cities / states that have no sanctuary cities.

I think you underestimate the barriers that could be in place, from violent criminals they owe money to, to the poverty that prevents them from affording a bus ticket, to the fear of travelling as a criminal in a society they do not speak the language.






The KKK used to argue that we could raise the wages of whites in this country if we shipped the blacks back to Africa. We used to have this guy, J.B. Stoner, that would get on tv during the elections and promise the people that "If you elect me governor of Georgia, I'll work to ship all the (expletive deleted) back to Africa."

Nobody really thought that was a viable option; stoner would garner, at best 30,000 votes. That was probably 2 percent of the population. Now it's 28 percent of the population when the skin color went from black to brown. Amazing.

Supply and demand is real. I've seen it is the difference in wages from a big city, with large poor populations, to smaller cities/towns without such large pools of labor.[/QUOTE]

I don't get your point. You argue supply and demand which is what brings undocumented immigrants to America.

I think YOU don't understand the totality of the barriers argument. I've worked in some aspect of this issue since 1976 and have argued the think tank issues on these boards that the build the wall, deport 'em all crowd has made for at least a decade and a half. They cannot or will not answer the questions that have been posed. For example:

Getting into America via human smugglers from Mexico averages about $1500 or so. Supposing you had a wall, for a few dollars more, those people could get on a plane and legally enter Canada (which is opening its doors to immigrants.) From there, they could walk across the northern border to the U.S. to find jobs and / or be with family. So, do you propose a wall along the northern border? Alaska is a stone's throw from Russia. Wall that up to? Cubans can get to Miami. Shall we put a wall up around Florida to guarantee Floridians the equal protection of the laws? Are you going to be the one to tell people no more access to the beaches in the name of fighting so - called "illegal immigration?"

People love to argue about this subject while not giving a rat's ass about the Freedoms and Liberties they jeopardize - Freedoms and Liberties our forefathers fought, bled, and died to secure. And the build the wall, deport 'em all factions don't care how many Freedoms and Liberties have been lost nor how many more will be taken.

There are far better solutions, but the build the wall, deport 'em all people think they have a monopoly on solutions... too stupid to figure out exactly who is financing their campaign nor WHY.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

The story of immigrants is a two-way street. We all know about the extremists whose only mission is wreak terror among our population (Just look at London and its mayor Sadiq Khan who is prolly a terrorist himself). These are the immigrants we don't want.

The other side of the coin is non-terror immigrants take jobs that no one else will take. They pile into rental units where others won't rent in order to make things work for themselves. They make money and they spend money. They bring in new types of foods and services. They add to a city's dying population and the cities end up thriving.

Today, we have over 80 sanctuary cities in the US. Most are liberal urban centers. Where I live, it isn't a sanctuary city. The city is modernizing, but its restaurants, businesses, stores and such aren't full. A few places still attract a crowd. Yet, the city isn't thriving even though it's a lead city in a large metropolitan area. An example a big city not thriving would be St. Louis, MO. It has the population and the metropolitan area, but once the workday is over, people go home to their suburban homes.

"More than 80 cities in the United States,[69] including Washington D.C., New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco, San Diego, San Jose, Salt Lake City, Phoenix, Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston, Detroit, Jersey City, Minneapolis, Miami, Denver, Baltimore, Seattle, Portland, Oregon and Portland, Maine, have sanctuary policies, which vary locally.[70] "

Immigration to the United States - Wikipedia

If your city cannot thrive without immigrants, you're doing it wrong.

Illegals bring no value to any city.

Immigrants should be an enhancement to your way of life and what your city is doing, not the be all, end all of your city.

"San Francisco, CA average salary is $99,284, median salary is $94,191 with a salary range from $21,439 to $1,826,000."

San Francisco Salaries, Average Salary & Jobs Pay in San Francisco, CA

Unemployment rate for San Francisco is 3.3 percent

unemployment rate for san francisco - Bing

San Francisco is a sanctuary city

The average yearly income in Atlanta is $60,219

atlanta annual income - Bing

The unemployment rate in Atlanta is 5. 5 percent

Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Roswell, Georgia Metropolitan Unemployment Rate and Total Unemployed | Department of Numbers

Atlanta is NOT a sanctuary city.

Do you understand my skepticism with your post?

But what is the cost of living in san francisco.



I live in a rust belt city. i know a guy who moved here a few years ago from California and he had interesting things to say about the way illegals live and work, pretty much as slaves.


Interestingly enough, he is a died in the wool lefties, and yet, could make no connection between the fact of slave labor and Democratic city and state.


He blamed it all on the "corruption" you see in "all port cities". LOL!!!

Carry On, Carrion

There are no Liberals. Collusion with wage-gouging pseudo-Conservatives proves that they are two wings of the same vulture. Quit trying push on us one fictional side by emphasizing its fraternal twin.

 

[Humorme]

There are no laws that mandate a "living wage."

Maybe not yet where you run your sweat shop, but thanks to idjits like you, there will be, all over the country.

If you're trying to shoot for becoming the dumbest poster on this site, you're running a good race.

Thanks to me, people who can't get a job can get offers of $20 to $25 per hour while the retail, warehouse, and fast food industries don't pay HALF that... and I don't give a rat's ass about unnecessary background checks.

Meanwhile, it's obvious from your arrogant attitude, you've never created a job in your life. You damn sure don't understand economics. The foreigners are working low end jobs that you too can get, if you want a job. But, you'd rather try to impress us with lies. See, you cannot understand that I have stated there is an immigration problem. The other side of that coin is that YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT ANSWERS.

Now, when someone agrees with you that there is a problem, it is pure idiocy to question their intelligence... lest you attack your own. Didn't see that coming, did you?

Undocumented immigrants are here because it is profitable. That does not mean it will always be profitable and it does not mean it hasn't created problems in our society. It has. For example, people like you want every small violation of the law to be a "crime" and, consequently, due to the POLICE STATE mentality, America has more people in jails and prisons than any nation on this planet! We have more jails and prisons than colleges in the U.S. More than seven and half MILLION people are IN the system and over 14 MILLION more with a criminal record at any given time.

Those people are locked out of the system by the background check atmosphere YOU endorsed. Imagine if you had spent your time and effort to rehabilitate those people; to mandate they get an education and job skills before being released back into society. Imagine if you had created incentives for those who did receive that proposed rehabilitation so employers would hire them. If all that were true, they would be working and there would be NO need for an employer to consider a foreigner - regardless of their status.

 

[Liquid Reigns]

I don't get your point. You argue supply and demand which is what brings undocumented immigrants to America.

They come because they can make more money here then they can back home. They make in one day here what it takes them to make in a week or more back home, which is why they send so much money back to their families.

I think YOU don't understand the totality of the barriers argument. I've worked in some aspect of this issue since 1976 and have argued the think tank issues that the build the wall, deport 'em all crowd has made for at least a decade and a half. They cannot or will not answer the questions that have been posed. For example:

Getting into America via human smugglers from Mexico averages about $1500 or so. Supposing you had a wall, for a few dollars more, those people could get on a plane and legally enter Canada (which is opening its doors to immigrants.) From there, they could walk across the northern border to the U.S. to find jobs and / or be with family. So, do you propose a wall along the northern border? Alaska is a stone's throw from Russia. Wall that up to? Cubans can get to Miami. Shall we put a wall up around Florida to guarantee Floridians the equal protection of the laws? Are you going to be the one to tell people no more access to the beaches in the name of fighting so - called "illegal immigration?"

In order to legally enter Canada they must get a passport and a visa, which is the problem they have in trying to enter the US, which is why they enter without inspection by crossing the border illegally. Walking in from Canada has a short window of opportunity and the terrain is much harsher.Cubans no longer have the wet foot dry foot policy to count on, so they now will be removed once arriving here illegally.

Your arguments are simply inane.

People love to argue about this subject while not giving a rat's ass about the Freedoms and Liberties they jeopardize - Freedoms and Liberties our forefathers fought, bled, and died to secure. And the build the wall, deport 'em all factions don't care how many Freedoms and Liberties have been lost nor how many more will be taken.

What freedoms and liberties have you lost due to immigration law?

There are far better solutions, but the build the wall, deport 'em all people think they have a monopoly on solutions... too stupid to figure out exactly who is financing their campaign nor WHY.

LMFAO Is that like your stupid claims and arguments?

 

[Liquid Reigns]

If you're trying to shoot for becoming the dumbest poster on this site, you're running a good race.

I'm pretty sure you have the lead in that race.

Thanks to me, people who can't get a job can get offers of $20 to $25 per hour while the retail, warehouse, and fast food industries don't pay HALF that... and I don't give a rat's ass about unnecessary background checks.

Thanks to you? LMFAO If you paid them like you were suppose to by with holding taxes and having insurance on them, that $20-$25 per hour would drop real quick.

Meanwhile, it's obvious from your arrogant attitude, you've never created a job in your life. You damn sure don't understand economics. The foreigners are working low end jobs that you too can get, if you want a job. But, you'd rather try to impress us with lies. See, you cannot understand that I have stated there is an immigration problem. The other side of that coin is that YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT ANSWERS.

LMFAO

Now, when someone agrees with you that there is a problem, it is pure idiocy to question their intelligence... lest you attack your own. Didn't see that coming, did you?

SMFH

Undocumented immigrants are here because it is profitable. That does not mean it will always be profitable and it does not mean it hasn't created problems in our society. It has. For example, people like you want every small violation of the law to be a "crime" and, consequently, due to the POLICE STATE mentality, America has more people in jails and prisons than any nation on this planet! We have more jails and prisons than colleges in the U.S. More than seven and half MILLION people are IN the system and over 14 MILLION more with a criminal record at any given time.

Your strawmen don't make your point, in fact they make you look inept. At least you admit illegals have created problems in our society.

Those people are locked out of the system by the background check atmosphere YOU endorsed. Imagine if you had spent your time and effort to rehabilitate those people; to mandate they get an education and job skills before being released back into society. Imagine if you had created incentives for those who did receive that proposed rehabilitation so employers would hire them. If all that were true, they would be working and there would be NO need for an employer to consider a foreigner - regardless of their status.

No they are not, people with criminal records get jobs all the time. You broadbrush way to much.

 

[charwin95]

I live in a city without a lot of illegals. I pay a white American to cut my grass. It is not ruinously expensive.

>>I live in a city without a lot of illegals. I pay a white American to cut my grass. It is not ruinously expensive.<<

My OP isn't about race so much as immigration or in today's world illegal immigration. My personal beliefs are that there should be a clear established line. I rather have legal immigration, but the liberals allowed illegal immigration and we're stuck with it. It doesn't make sense to deport all the illegals and maybe some can get legal status. Thus, we have the sanctuary cities and their policies. If you want to make it about race, in this case, whites, then it's about smart whites vs not so smart whites who run these cities. It's not just whites who run these cities, but I'm just making it simple.

Maybe having a white American cut your grass is a sign of quality in your city. However, I don't think it will last.

Basically what I'm saying is the sanctuary cities will thrive more and your city won't be thriving as much. People die daily. You can't just get 100,000K increase in population in a few years through birth.

I find that people making these arguments about legal v illegal immigration to be selling a pig in a poke.

Let me see if I understand you:

You are "for" legal (sic) immigration. According to the anti-immigration activists "legal immigration" is code for citizenship. So you have no problem with immigrants provided they went through some legal process aimed at requiring people to become citizens.

Now, let us forget the fact that this year alone at least 780,000 people will take the oath and become citizens. Radical Muslims, communists, atheists, murderers, social outcasts and all manner of people you would find to be objectionable under most circumstances are welcome... they did it "legally" as you are so fond of calling it.

These 780,000 people (this year alone) can now be a part of the body politic, having the privilege of voting and then drawing out of Socialist Security, Medicare, Medicaid, AND voting in their version of what they think America ought to be.

Meanwhile, you get your boxers in a bunch because low wage people come here and work jobs that Americans obviously don't want... don't try to "school" me until you've spent a couple of weeks here with me. Here the whites and the "legal" Americans don't apply for the jobs; they don't want the jobs; they won't work them when they get them. ANYBODY who thinks differently is welcome to spend a couple of weeks with me and I will shatter your presupposition all to Hell.

But, I will not give up trying to get the substance of your argument.

Americans do those jobs already. It is only in high immigration areas that they get pushed out of that job market by being undercut.

Incorrect Correll.
There are jobs available now. But where are they? The best excuses ------ is and was they are not getting pay high enough to entice white Americans.
So I ask this question many many times but not a single one of you can answer this simple question. Let me ask this AGAIN.
If you have to work in the agricultural jobs, janitors, waiters, buss boy -------- How much do you think is the fair labor wages? ANYONE?

Illegals are now getting paid close to $18/per hour.
There is shortage of construction workers, house cleaning, agricultural workers etc etc etc. But where are my fellow Americans?

Did you ever ask Trump why he hired and still hiring foreign workers?

1. Can you explain why there is not a single industry in the US that has a 50%> work force of illegals or immigrants? Every industry has a 50% + of citizens/legal workers. AG has a special visa just for them with no annual cap, why is it not being used to bring in the labor shortage for crops?

2. Illegals aren't being paid close to $18 per hour, not even as an average. In some instances they can earn that or even a little more picking crops, but it is by no means a barometer of what they make overall.

You did not answer any of questions. Why?

1. In the corporate world it's impossible to hire illegals. But there are legal immigrants with green cards or anchor babies and not sure where you got the 50%.
Bringing foreign workers for crops cost more because you have to house and feed them and corral make sure they don't run and hide. So why bother when they are available here.
Farmers that are coming from Asia or other countries like Africa via H2A visa. Do you honestly believe they came here just to pick strawberries? They sent their best educated kids to apply hoping for a better job than farmers.

2. True but the trend is about $18 due to shortages of these people. Farmers are desperate. Even rebuilding of Houston after Harvey they are getting paid between $25 to $35 as we speak.

Wages rise on California farms. Americans still don't want the job

 

[charwin95]

The story of immigrants is a two-way street. We all know about the extremists whose only mission is wreak terror among our population (Just look at London and its mayor Sadiq Khan who is prolly a terrorist himself). These are the immigrants we don't want.

The other side of the coin is non-terror immigrants take jobs that no one else will take. They pile into rental units where others won't rent in order to make things work for themselves. They make money and they spend money. They bring in new types of foods and services. They add to a city's dying population and the cities end up thriving.

Today, we have over 80 sanctuary cities in the US. Most are liberal urban centers. Where I live, it isn't a sanctuary city. The city is modernizing, but its restaurants, businesses, stores and such aren't full. A few places still attract a crowd. Yet, the city isn't thriving even though it's a lead city in a large metropolitan area. An example a big city not thriving would be St. Louis, MO. It has the population and the metropolitan area, but once the workday is over, people go home to their suburban homes.

"More than 80 cities in the United States,[69] including Washington D.C., New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco, San Diego, San Jose, Salt Lake City, Phoenix, Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston, Detroit, Jersey City, Minneapolis, Miami, Denver, Baltimore, Seattle, Portland, Oregon and Portland, Maine, have sanctuary policies, which vary locally.[70] "

Immigration to the United States - Wikipedia

I live in a city without a lot of illegals. I pay a white American to cut my grass. It is not ruinously expensive.

>>I live in a city without a lot of illegals. I pay a white American to cut my grass. It is not ruinously expensive.<<

My OP isn't about race so much as immigration or in today's world illegal immigration. My personal beliefs are that there should be a clear established line. I rather have legal immigration, but the liberals allowed illegal immigration and we're stuck with it. It doesn't make sense to deport all the illegals and maybe some can get legal status. Thus, we have the sanctuary cities and their policies. If you want to make it about race, in this case, whites, then it's about smart whites vs not so smart whites who run these cities. It's not just whites who run these cities, but I'm just making it simple.

Maybe having a white American cut your grass is a sign of quality in your city. However, I don't think it will last.

Basically what I'm saying is the sanctuary cities will thrive more and your city won't be thriving as much. People die daily. You can't just get 100,000K increase in population in a few years through birth.

I find that people making these arguments about legal v illegal immigration to be selling a pig in a poke.

Let me see if I understand you:

You are "for" legal (sic) immigration. According to the anti-immigration activists "legal immigration" is code for citizenship. So you have no problem with immigrants provided they went through some legal process aimed at requiring people to become citizens.

Now, let us forget the fact that this year alone at least 780,000 people will take the oath and become citizens. Radical Muslims, communists, atheists, murderers, social outcasts and all manner of people you would find to be objectionable under most circumstances are welcome... they did it "legally" as you are so fond of calling it.

These 780,000 people (this year alone) can now be a part of the body politic, having the privilege of voting and then drawing out of Socialist Security, Medicare, Medicaid, AND voting in their version of what they think America ought to be.

Meanwhile, you get your boxers in a bunch because low wage people come here and work jobs that Americans obviously don't want... don't try to "school" me until you've spent a couple of weeks here with me. Here the whites and the "legal" Americans don't apply for the jobs; they don't want the jobs; they won't work them when they get them. ANYBODY who thinks differently is welcome to spend a couple of weeks with me and I will shatter your presupposition all to Hell.

But, I will not give up trying to get the substance of your argument.

Nonsense. It doesn't work that way. Are you saying that 780,000 this year alone will become irresponsible citizens?
Give us a proof that 780,000 will commit those kind of crimes you mentioned. Most or all of these people comes here for better life for their families and only chance they have in their lifetime. Not to make themselves miserable.

I did not say 780,000 would become irresponsible citizens. Don't insult me and embarrass yourself. I'm going to pretend, for the moment, that your IQ is higher than that.

Of the 780,000 that come here, many will be on Socialist Security, medicare, medicaid, etc. way before they have worked a regular working career. Many of them will be from countries that are antithetical to all that America was intended to represent. BTW, did I say all of them? Did I say most of them?

Of those that come here, they will commit more violent crimes than the undocumented Hispanics (who make up over 90 percent of the undocumented foreigners.)

So you think that "legal foreigners" are all legit? Do you want to start with the 9 / 11 hijackers or before? Would you like something more recent like Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik, who killed 14 people and wounded 22 more? How man instances like that have the undocumented population committed? Were you thinking of the Tsarnev brothers when you made that faux pas? Here is a list of Muslim terrorist attacks in the U.S. How many of those do you think were done by "legal" immigrants as you like to call them?

I'm just telling you the truth. And I totally totally disagree with your point.

These immigrants that just became US citizens has been here in US minimum of 5 years. They have jobs already. You assumed that these new citizens just arrived to America.
How many illegals vs legal immigrants committed crimes? Most are law abiding citizens came to America for better living.