San Francisco Bart Shooting , Trial, & Riot

[boedicca]

What do you think of the verdict and what do you believe happened with the shooting?

The officer who shot Oscar Grant was a member of the BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit) Police. BART police mainly give out parking tickets and dislodge sleeping homeless people from trains. Ironically, they are the highest paid police force in CA (which gives one a good idea why public transit is so expensive - overpaid, underskilled union employees).

BART police are not Municipal Police. Mehserle was ill trained and qualified for a confrontational situation. My opinion, he's a poor schlub who made a capital mistake. I doubt he meant to shoot Oscar Grant. Only an idiot would intentionally shoot a downed suspect in front of a large hostile group carrying cellphones with cameras.

It's a tragedy. Manslaughter is a proper conviction. Mehserle will spend years in jail; his life is pretty much ruined. Justice has been served - anything more to torment this man and his family is just revenge. Holder opening up an investigation is not going to help the people of Oakland heal from this situation. It will keep the wound open and encourage the vengeful aspect.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Actually, I don't see why anyone is rioting when he was found guilty.

I was thinking the same thing, but I think some people just use any excuse they can to behave like animals.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Life is unfair, and reality is often sad. One caveat, if LE says you're connected to a terrorist (loosely defined) you just might wish you were in the old Soviet Union.

But we are on the same page here. It sounds ugly to say the young man bears the responsibility for his own actions, but life is often ugly.

I have a friend who was shot in the back by a Transit Police Officer in Boston. The Police allowed my friend to die on the ground while refusing a nurse's of aid. A long story, but the cop got in trouble after others were forced to come forward and go to jail in order to testify about their own actions while testifying against the cop. Many of bad cops. Worse is the blue wall.

But things must be looked at on a case by case basis. This guy who died -- his own actions unwittingly led to his own death. I do not say 'caused' just "led to."

I agree with you here.

 

[AllieBaba]

Please let me know how many of you who are certain the cop meant to kill this guy, how many of you have ever actually taken someone who is trying to hurt you, down?

 

[Gatekeeper]

And STILL, it continues: But this was NO accident like the one in this thread. Let's hear the outrage on this one folks. Hopefully there will be a citywide and national outrage over this deliberate act of violence. Another felon on the street, why?

Top cop: 'Entire city should be enraged' by officer's slaying - Chicago Breaking News

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Actually, I don't see why anyone is rioting when he was found guilty.

disingenuous as usual? sigh

I get why they are rioting even though I with many of the basic premises of the arguments the rioters would use.

Most of them were not rioting, it was a largely peaceful demonstration. The "rioters" were all "professional" demonstrators from the radical left. There only premise is that they like to destroy businesses and burn cars. I am going to assume you are not really saying you support that.

you would have to be an idiot to assume any of my posts excuse or support the rioters.

understanding why some people riot is not to be confused with quiet approval.

I think not all the rioters fit one mold. this is not to deny there are anarchistic elements, but they are far from being leftist. these types riot against leftist governments too

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Okay, allow me to amend. Rioting is THIS country is never okay. We have a legal system to deal with these issues.

As for this case, the cop was guilty. pretty dumb to draw your gun instead of your taser. do cops get away with murder? Sure , occasionally, as do rich black ex athletes or rap stars. Our system isn't perfect, but it works pretty damn well.

It wasn't dumb in my opinion. Dumb would be drawing the gun and having it accidently go off. The cop's mind had him drawing his taser, and pulling the trigger was no accident. The cop was guilty of an accident, the legal system held him guilty of manslaughter.

I do not deny others get away with murder,. Why you need to raise the idea that others get away with murder in order to say you believe cops get away with murder says lots about your thinking process and your world view.

Our system does not work well, it works better than many broken systems. Innocent people have been put to death.

We have people who would give up freedoms so one person doesn't get killed by a terrorist, yet these same people would often give up nothing to see innocent people not be put to death in their name. the disconnect is frightening.

Actually, according to the jury, he intended to use his gun.

The argument was that the Taser weighs a fraction of what a Glock weighs, the safety operates completely differently, and he would have needed to use a cross draw to use it. He clearly had his hand on the Taser earlier in the confrontation, and it would have required him to use a totally different motion to get it out of the holster.

The jury is wrong as juries many times are. Anyone who has ever had their mind preoccupied knows what can happen when the body goes into automatic mode. People throw away valuable things while holding onto that which they meant to throw away. I threw away my keys...meaning to throw away my garbage/trash bag.

The weight difference and size difference and the shape were all far greater than the differences between a gun and a taser. My story is anecdotal, but the jury's beliefs are misinformed. This is why I would most likely never choose a jury trial. I do not respect or have faith in my 'peers.' never have.

Trying to make sense out of accidents is like trying to make sense out of the motivations of crazy people.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

What do you think of the verdict and what do you believe happened with the shooting?

The officer who shot Oscar Grant was a member of the BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit) Police. BART police mainly give out parking tickets and dislodge sleeping homeless people from trains. Ironically, they are the highest paid police force in CA (which gives one a good idea why public transit is so expensive - overpaid, underskilled union employees).

BART police are not Municipal Police. Mehserle was ill trained and qualified for a confrontational situation. My opinion, he's a poor schlub who made a capital mistake. I doubt he meant to shoot Oscar Grant. Only an idiot would intentionally shoot a downed suspect in front of a large hostile group carrying cellphones with cameras.

It's a tragedy. Manslaughter is a proper conviction. Mehserle will spend years in jail; his life is pretty much ruined. Justice has been served - anything more to torment this man and his family is just revenge. Holder opening up an investigation is not going to help the people of Oakland heal from this situation. It will keep the wound open and encourage the vengeful aspect.

thank you

what a reasoned and rational response. rare around here.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Actually, I don't see why anyone is rioting when he was found guilty.

I was thinking the same thing, but I think some people just use any excuse they can to behave like animals.

the clueless, like flies, swarm.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

disingenuous as usual? sigh

I get why they are rioting even though I with many of the basic premises of the arguments the rioters would use.

Most of them were not rioting, it was a largely peaceful demonstration. The "rioters" were all "professional" demonstrators from the radical left. There only premise is that they like to destroy businesses and burn cars. I am going to assume you are not really saying you support that.

you would have to be an idiot to assume any of my posts excuse or support the rioters.

understanding why some people riot is not to be confused with quiet approval.

I think not all the rioters fit one mold. this is not to deny there are anarchistic elements, but they are far from being leftist. these types riot against leftist governments too

I made a distinction between the rioters and the demonstrators, unlike you. You are the one who is actually guilty of painting them with a brad brush, and I was simply pointing this out to you. You relied on whatever media reports you were getting. The media here where actually seemed to be hoping for a riot, at least the channel I was watching. The police actually did a good job, though I am sure there will be some complaints of excessive force despite their restraint.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It wasn't dumb in my opinion. Dumb would be drawing the gun and having it accidently go off. The cop's mind had him drawing his taser, and pulling the trigger was no accident. The cop was guilty of an accident, the legal system held him guilty of manslaughter.

I do not deny others get away with murder,. Why you need to raise the idea that others get away with murder in order to say you believe cops get away with murder says lots about your thinking process and your world view.

Our system does not work well, it works better than many broken systems. Innocent people have been put to death.

We have people who would give up freedoms so one person doesn't get killed by a terrorist, yet these same people would often give up nothing to see innocent people not be put to death in their name. the disconnect is frightening.

Actually, according to the jury, he intended to use his gun.

The argument was that the Taser weighs a fraction of what a Glock weighs, the safety operates completely differently, and he would have needed to use a cross draw to use it. He clearly had his hand on the Taser earlier in the confrontation, and it would have required him to use a totally different motion to get it out of the holster.

The jury is wrong as juries many times are. Anyone who has ever had their mind preoccupied knows what can happen when the body goes into automatic mode. People throw away valuable things while holding onto that which they meant to throw away. I threw away my keys...meaning to throw away my garbage/trash bag.

The weight difference and size difference and the shape were all far greater than the differences between a gun and a taser. My story is anecdotal, but the jury's beliefs are misinformed. This is why I would most likely never choose a jury trial. I do not respect or have faith in my 'peers.' never have.

Trying to make sense out of accidents is like trying to make sense out of the motivations of crazy people.

They had a lot more information than you had, including plenty of defense experts who described exactly the situation you do. They weighed all of the evidence and testimony and made their determination. I happen to agree with them in essence, it would have been impossible to mistake the motion needed to pull and activate a Taser with that needed to pull and fire a gun.

The reason this happened is that BART issued Tasers and did not provide training. Mehserle should not have been carrying that Taser in the first place. If he had not had it, or if he had proper training with it, Oscar Grant would be alive today.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Most of them were not rioting, it was a largely peaceful demonstration. The "rioters" were all "professional" demonstrators from the radical left. There only premise is that they like to destroy businesses and burn cars. I am going to assume you are not really saying you support that.

you would have to be an idiot to assume any of my posts excuse or support the rioters.

understanding why some people riot is not to be confused with quiet approval.

I think not all the rioters fit one mold. this is not to deny there are anarchistic elements, but they are far from being leftist. these types riot against leftist governments too

I made a distinction between the rioters and the demonstrators, unlike you. You are the one who is actually guilty of painting them with a brad brush, and I was simply pointing this out to you. You relied on whatever media reports you were getting. The media here where actually seemed to be hoping for a riot, at least the channel I was watching. The police actually did a good job, though I am sure there will be some complaints of excessive force despite their restraint.

Unlike you, I make a distinction amongst the rioter. You are the one who is actually guilty of painting them with a brad brush, and I am simply pointing this out to you.

I heard an idiot live on the radio, saying the police were gathering around the peaceful protest as if the police staying away was a good thing. I remember the PD getting a bad rap for not being more proactive after the Rodney Crackhead King trial. You are not the only one who believes the police did a good job. But you are the only one here (between you and I) who is lumping all rioters in one group.

 

[Zona]

San Francisco Bart Shooting , Trial, & Riot

Oakland riots, looting after manslaughter verdict in BART shooting trial (video, photos)

--

I get this much, a transit cop shot an unarmed man who was handcuffed and lying face down, prone, on a sidewalk. The cop said he thought he reached for his taser, when in reality he grabbed his gun -- and shot.

I have a difficult time believing a cop shot a guy on the street, in public, over a minor infraction.

The riot I understand, from the perspective of people who fear the police, is that cops get away from murder.

btw, a friend of the guy who was shot, said the cop was saying "I will taser you" before he pulled his gun and shot. The friend of the guy who was shot says the cop looked very shocked when the everyone realized a shot was fired.

yet there is a legitimate question being raised by others: do cops get away with murder?

He was surprised it was a gun, not a taser? Then he should be fired anyway.

This man is a murderer. If there was no camera there, he would have been considered a hero. We all know this.

Fuck the police. (the bad ones.)

Zona, the mind can be in more than one place at a time. Have you ever looked for your keys while they are in your hand?

The poor cop shot an innocent man. He did so unknowingly. He carries an awful burden. He will pay society a debt, but his own punishment is his mind--he will live with this forever.

nuf said

"the poor cop"....

He is a professional who handles weapons for a living. There is no way in hell you can tell me he thought he had the taser and not his gun. His taser is sercured a completly different way than his gun so when he unholstered his gun, he knew exactly what he was doing. HE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A TRAINED PROFESSIONAL! He murdered that guy.

His punishment will be in his mind? What about the victim and his family's minds?

 

[Zona]

San Francisco Bart Shooting , Trial, & Riot

Oakland riots, looting after manslaughter verdict in BART shooting trial (video, photos)

--

I get this much, a transit cop shot an unarmed man who was handcuffed and lying face down, prone, on a sidewalk. The cop said he thought he reached for his taser, when in reality he grabbed his gun -- and shot.

I have a difficult time believing a cop shot a guy on the street, in public, over a minor infraction.

The riot I understand, from the perspective of people who fear the police, is that cops get away from murder.

btw, a friend of the guy who was shot, said the cop was saying "I will taser you" before he pulled his gun and shot. The friend of the guy who was shot says the cop looked very shocked when the everyone realized a shot was fired.

yet there is a legitimate question being raised by others: do cops get away with murder?

Wow. With this concrete evidence, I am surprised the cop didnt get a reward.

I heard from a cousin of the guys mailman who once drove a bus that had a kid on it who's ister once did hair for a cousin of the guy who was shot and he said..........It was an accident.

Wow.

 

[Zona]

Actually, I don't see why anyone is rioting when he was found guilty.

Because he got a slap on the wrist relatively speaking. He should be thrown under the jail for shooting a handcuffed, floored kid in the back and killing him. (I think it was in the back if memory serves). ed...nope, he was face down...

HOrrible cop, horrible sentance and if this wasnt on tape, he would have gotten away with it.

 

[Jeremy]

Actually, I don't see why anyone is rioting when he was found guilty.

Because he got a slap on the wrist relatively speaking. He should be thrown under the jail for shooting a handcuffed, floored kid in the back and killing him. (I think it was in the back if memory serves).

HOrrible cop, horrible sentance and if this wasnt on tape, he would have gotten away with it.

I really hope your dumb ass never has jury duty.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

He was surprised it was a gun, not a taser? Then he should be fired anyway.

This man is a murderer. If there was no camera there, he would have been considered a hero. We all know this.

Fuck the police. (the bad ones.)

Zona, the mind can be in more than one place at a time. Have you ever looked for your keys while they are in your hand?

The poor cop shot an innocent man. He did so unknowingly. He carries an awful burden. He will pay society a debt, but his own punishment is his mind--he will live with this forever.

nuf said

"the poor cop"....

He is a professional who handles weapons for a living. There is no way in hell you can tell me he thought he had the taser and not his gun. His taser is sercured a completly different way than his gun so when he unholstered his gun, he knew exactly what he was doing. HE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A TRAINED PROFESSIONAL! He murdered that guy.

His punishment will be in his mind? What about the victim and his family's minds?

Are you aware of how many accidents happen with trained professionals on any given day?

but that is beside the point. it stretches credulity to believe the cop shot the guy on purpose.

The guy who got shot had a friend there at the scene. Witnessed the whole thing. Said the cop was saying he'd taser the guy of he didn't comply. The same friend/witness testified how the cop was surprised and shaken after hearing the shot.

Real life is not an argument on an anonymous message board or a television program. Shit happens. It's not murder.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

San Francisco Bart Shooting , Trial, & Riot

Oakland riots, looting after manslaughter verdict in BART shooting trial (video, photos)

--

I get this much, a transit cop shot an unarmed man who was handcuffed and lying face down, prone, on a sidewalk. The cop said he thought he reached for his taser, when in reality he grabbed his gun -- and shot.

I have a difficult time believing a cop shot a guy on the street, in public, over a minor infraction.

The riot I understand, from the perspective of people who fear the police, is that cops get away from murder.

btw, a friend of the guy who was shot, said the cop was saying "I will taser you" before he pulled his gun and shot. The friend of the guy who was shot says the cop looked very shocked when the everyone realized a shot was fired.

yet there is a legitimate question being raised by others: do cops get away with murder?

Wow. With this concrete evidence, I am surprised the cop didnt get a reward.

I heard from a cousin of the guys mailman who once drove a bus that had a kid on it who's ister once did hair for a cousin of the guy who was shot and he said..........It was an accident.

Wow.

go away.

not many sane people believe the cop shot the guy on purpose. your hatred of law enforcement is noticed, but your arguments are plain stupid.

bye

 

[Zona]

Actually, I don't see why anyone is rioting when he was found guilty.

Because he got a slap on the wrist relatively speaking. He should be thrown under the jail for shooting a handcuffed, floored kid in the back and killing him. (I think it was in the back if memory serves).

HOrrible cop, horrible sentance and if this wasnt on tape, he would have gotten away with it.

I really hope your dumb ass never has jury duty.

A taser does not feel like a service revolver. This was no accident. It could possibly be an accident if a person wasnt trained with those weapons.

He should be thrown under the jail. Why was he trying to "taser" a kid who was cuffed and face down anyway? Did you not see the tape? (Thank god for that coverage, if it didnt exist, this "cop" would have been given a medal.)

That was mistake number one. He had the situation under control, then he drew his gun and shot the kid in the back and killed him.

Murder. Period.

 

[boedicca]

Actually, I don't see why anyone is rioting when he was found guilty.

Because he got a slap on the wrist relatively speaking. He should be thrown under the jail for shooting a handcuffed, floored kid in the back and killing him. (I think it was in the back if memory serves). ed...nope, he was face down...

HOrrible cop, horrible sentance and if this wasnt on tape, he would have gotten away with it.

Zona must be descended from a long line of lynch mob vigilantes.