sacred ground?

[Skull Pilot]

the more people complain about the mosque, the more it will seem like a victory to the idiot islamics.

So how much of the Constitution should we ignor or trample so we ensure a handful of "idiot Islamics" don't have a sense of victory concerning this one event?

Personally I'm tired of being supposed to react to them. I am far more concerned that Ossama is still not captured "dead or alive".

What part of the Constitution am I recommending we ignore?

 

[martybegan]

I was making fun of some of the loonier troll claims out there.

And you're right, people have every right to protest. They have every right to question motive. I feel for the people who can't seem to move on, I get it. 9/11 was painful. We all lost something that day, something that we haven't ever really talked about, defined or figured out how to move forward together from. It makes honest dialogue tough. And it breeds suspicion, of "them" and of each other. If protesting helps, protest away!

What they don't have is the right to tear up the Constitution.

Agreed, but folks have to remember that the bill of rights was soley designed to prevent the GOVERMENT from doing things, it doesnt prevent the people from doing things. For that you have to go to laws.

In bold - agree 100%.

Which begs the question, are American Muslims then not to be considered part of the People?

If you want me to get on my soapbox about that last part I will....but be prepared for a novel.

Yes they are. The issue really isnt their right to do this, but is it the right thing. It goes along with the saying "Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD"

 

[goldcatt]

Agreed, but folks have to remember that the bill of rights was soley designed to prevent the GOVERMENT from doing things, it doesnt prevent the people from doing things. For that you have to go to laws.

In bold - agree 100%.

Which begs the question, are American Muslims then not to be considered part of the People?

If you want me to get on my soapbox about that last part I will....but be prepared for a novel.

Yes they are. The issue really isnt their right to do this, but is it the right thing. It goes along with the saying "Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD"

I agree. But "should" is a judgment call and a matter of opinion. People who don't think they should have every right to protest. People who think they should have every right to say so too. And I think it's a healthy thing to have a dialogue about.

The law needs to stay out of it, IMO.

 

[dilloduck]

In bold - agree 100%.

Which begs the question, are American Muslims then not to be considered part of the People?

If you want me to get on my soapbox about that last part I will....but be prepared for a novel.

Yes they are. The issue really isnt their right to do this, but is it the right thing. It goes along with the saying "Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD"

I agree. But "should" is a judgment call and a matter of opinion. People who don't think they should have every right to protest. People who think they should have every right to say so too. And I think it's a healthy thing to have a dialogue about.

The law needs to stay out of it, IMO.

Amen -if only we could get rid of about 90% of the laws "meant to protect us"

 

[uscitizen]

Why have we not rebuilt at the buildings at ground zero?

I guess we are too weak as a nation to rebuild?

 

[HUGGY]

Agreed, but folks have to remember that the bill of rights was soley designed to prevent the GOVERMENT from doing things, it doesnt prevent the people from doing things. For that you have to go to laws.

In bold - agree 100%.

Which begs the question, are American Muslims then not to be considered part of the People?

If you want me to get on my soapbox about that last part I will....but be prepared for a novel.

Yes they are. The issue really isnt their right to do this, but is it the right thing. It goes along with the saying "Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD"

Aside from the attackers...how many Muzlums died in 9/11? You don't think the Muzlum religion took a pretty big hit from what those freaks accomplished?

Don't get me wrong. I absolutely despise ALL organised religion. I would rather thrust knitting needles into my eyes than give any of you stupid believers in fairy tales any special consideration.

Just sayin...

 

[dilloduck]

the more people complain about the mosque, the more it will seem like a victory to the idiot islamics.

So how much of the Constitution should we ignor or trample so we ensure a handful of "idiot Islamics" don't have a sense of victory concerning this one event?

Personally I'm tired of being supposed to react to them. I am far more concerned that Ossama is still not captured "dead or alive".

What part of the Constitution am I recommending we ignore?

none but we sure as hell could use some common sense interpretations of it.

 

[martybegan]

In bold - agree 100%.

Which begs the question, are American Muslims then not to be considered part of the People?

If you want me to get on my soapbox about that last part I will....but be prepared for a novel.

Yes they are. The issue really isnt their right to do this, but is it the right thing. It goes along with the saying "Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD"

Aside from the attackers...how many Muzlums died in 9/11? You don't think the Muzlum religion took a pretty big hit from what those freaks accomplished?

Don't get me wrong. I absolutely despise ALL organised religion. I would rather thrust knitting needles into my eyes than give any of you stupid believers in fairy tales any special consideration.

Just sayin...

Probably a few, due to general demographics, and I don't think the attack had the intended result. My guess was OBL thought the US if hit hard enough would retreat from Saudi and the gulf, leaving an opening for him to overthrow the Saudi sultan.

On a side note, while I have nothing against people being atheist, or theistic for that matter, you really dont have to be an asshole about it right off the bat.

 

[goldcatt]

Why have we not rebuilt at the buildings at ground zero?

I guess we are too weak as a nation to rebuild?

Too much fighting, not enough talking, nobody listening...yeah, you pretty much got it.

 

[martybegan]

Why have we not rebuilt at the buildings at ground zero?

I guess we are too weak as a nation to rebuild?

Too much fighting, not enough talking, nobody listening...yeah, you pretty much got it.

Lets list the agencies that have direct control over what is going on down there:

Lower Manhattan Development Corporation (LMDC)
Port Authority of New York and New Jersey
State of New York
City of New York

now lets add all the other stakeholders on what is going on there (Fun!)

NYC Buildings Department
Fire Department of New York City
OSHA
Metropolitan Tranist Authority
Local Community Boards
Contractors
Designers
9/11 Family Organizartions
Other Interest Groups
Homeland Security
NYPD

Its a miracle they are as far along as they are.

 

[HUGGY]

Yes they are. The issue really isnt their right to do this, but is it the right thing. It goes along with the saying "Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD"

Aside from the attackers...how many Muzlums died in 9/11? You don't think the Muzlum religion took a pretty big hit from what those freaks accomplished?

Don't get me wrong. I absolutely despise ALL organised religion. I would rather thrust knitting needles into my eyes than give any of you stupid believers in fairy tales any special consideration.

Just sayin...

Probably a few, due to general demographics, and I don't think the attack had the intended result. My guess was OBL thought the US if hit hard enough would retreat from Saudi and the gulf, leaving an opening for him to overthrow the Saudi sultan.

On a side note, while I have nothing against people being atheist, or theistic for that matter, you really dont have to be an asshole about it right off the bat.

Not a thing sparky! When was that 9/11 thingy again? Oh ya...9/11/01.. My patience has worn a tad thin on this subject. As for being an asshole... You can go fuck yourself! AND I mean that in the most assholio way you can imagine.

We clear?

Thanks for playing dipshit!

 

[jillian]

Why have we not rebuilt at the buildings at ground zero?

I guess we are too weak as a nation to rebuild?

Too much fighting, not enough talking, nobody listening...yeah, you pretty much got it.

Lets list the agencies that have direct control over what is going on down there:

Lower Manhattan Development Corporation (LMDC)
Port Authority of New York and New Jersey
State of New York
City of New York

now lets add all the other stakeholders on what is going on there (Fun!)

NYC Buildings Department
Fire Department of New York City
OSHA
Metropolitan Tranist Authority
Local Community Boards
Contractors
Designers
9/11 Family Organizartions
Other Interest Groups
Homeland Security
NYPD

Its a miracle they are as far along as they are.

yes. but the bigger problem was people simply didn't want to move their offices to any tower built on ground zero. it's like waiving a target around. and because of that, larry silverstein and silverstein properties kept renegotiating the agreement with the city for funding and tax breaks.

personally, i don't think they should build there... it should be a park.

 

[goldcatt]

Yes they are. The issue really isnt their right to do this, but is it the right thing. It goes along with the saying "Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD"

Aside from the attackers...how many Muzlums died in 9/11? You don't think the Muzlum religion took a pretty big hit from what those freaks accomplished?

Don't get me wrong. I absolutely despise ALL organised religion. I would rather thrust knitting needles into my eyes than give any of you stupid believers in fairy tales any special consideration.

Just sayin...

Probably a few, due to general demographics, and I don't think the attack had the intended result. My guess was OBL thought the US if hit hard enough would retreat from Saudi and the gulf, leaving an opening for him to overthrow the Saudi sultan.

On a side note, while I have nothing against people being atheist, or theistic for that matter, you really dont have to be an asshole about it right off the bat.

He's Huggy, being an asshole is part of his charm.

Not to trivialize it, at all, but I really think terrrorists are the ultimate trolls. Think about it. What is their goal? To bait us into responding, to get inside our heads and affect how we think, how we feel, and ultimately how we behave.

Nine years ago 19 people (and a few others who were behind them) trolled us. They were amazingly successful, weren't they? They're still in our heads, still affecting our emotions, still dictating our reactions even from the grave. In a very real way they're winning. And we're letting them.

Ten years ago who would have cared about this? What's changed? Oh, I know the body count...probably better than most. But how have we as a nation been affected, why is it still so powerful, what exactly did we lose and most important how do we move on from here? Can we forget "them" for a moment please and focus on "us"? I'd say it's long past time.

Which is one of the reasons I welcome Cordoba House, in addition to the value I place on the principles involved. Maybe enough people will stop focusing on Them Damn Muslims and start thinking about who we are and why it's such an issue in the first place. Maybe....

Where's Mr. F and his flying pig when you need him?

 

[martybegan]

Aside from the attackers...how many Muzlums died in 9/11? You don't think the Muzlum religion took a pretty big hit from what those freaks accomplished?

Don't get me wrong. I absolutely despise ALL organised religion. I would rather thrust knitting needles into my eyes than give any of you stupid believers in fairy tales any special consideration.

Just sayin...

Probably a few, due to general demographics, and I don't think the attack had the intended result. My guess was OBL thought the US if hit hard enough would retreat from Saudi and the gulf, leaving an opening for him to overthrow the Saudi sultan.

On a side note, while I have nothing against people being atheist, or theistic for that matter, you really dont have to be an asshole about it right off the bat.

Not a thing sparky! When was that 9/11 thingy again? Oh ya...9/11/01.. My patience has worn a tad thin on this subject. As for being an asshole... You can go fuck yourself! AND I mean that in the most assholio way you can imagine.

We clear?

Thanks for playing dipshit!

Wow, talk about thin skinned. You just let someone on the internet make you upset. calling somone an asshole is like the diet coke of insults, hell I got a friend and that is one of his nicknames.

You could have responded to my original comment without all the anti-religion snarkiness, but you chose to go the name calling "everyone who beleives in something is a drooling idiot" path. I called you out on it, simple as that.

(This thread may get derailed, I apologize in advance for it)

 

[martybegan]

Too much fighting, not enough talking, nobody listening...yeah, you pretty much got it.

Lets list the agencies that have direct control over what is going on down there:

Lower Manhattan Development Corporation (LMDC)
Port Authority of New York and New Jersey
State of New York
City of New York

now lets add all the other stakeholders on what is going on there (Fun!)

NYC Buildings Department
Fire Department of New York City
OSHA
Metropolitan Tranist Authority
Local Community Boards
Contractors
Designers
9/11 Family Organizartions
Other Interest Groups
Homeland Security
NYPD

Its a miracle they are as far along as they are.

yes. but the bigger problem was people simply didn't want to move their offices to any tower built on ground zero. it's like waiving a target around. and because of that, larry silverstein and silverstein properties kept renegotiating the agreement with the city for funding and tax breaks.

personally, i don't think they should build there... it should be a park.

I can see the reasoning behind that, but it could be seen as an indicator of defeat. While I know it is probably not economically viable I was always a fan of "Project Pheonix", which was to rebuilt the whole thing exactly the way it was.

 

[goldcatt]

Too much fighting, not enough talking, nobody listening...yeah, you pretty much got it.

Lets list the agencies that have direct control over what is going on down there:

Lower Manhattan Development Corporation (LMDC)
Port Authority of New York and New Jersey
State of New York
City of New York

now lets add all the other stakeholders on what is going on there (Fun!)

NYC Buildings Department
Fire Department of New York City
OSHA
Metropolitan Tranist Authority
Local Community Boards
Contractors
Designers
9/11 Family Organizartions
Other Interest Groups
Homeland Security
NYPD

Its a miracle they are as far along as they are.

yes. but the bigger problem was people simply didn't want to move their offices to any tower built on ground zero. it's like waiving a target around. and because of that, larry silverstein and silverstein properties kept renegotiating the agreement with the city for funding and tax breaks.

personally, i don't think they should build there... it should be a park.

I actually liked the idea of the underground memorial. But too many families and others thought is was hiding it away. The renderings were beautiful though, and seemed fitting.

A park is another way to go. Then again, some people think rebuilding and showing Them how little we care about their targeting is appropriate. But rebuilding what? So the fighting begins...and nothing gets done.

How many lawsuits are still out there, anybody know? I'm feeling lazy.

 

[HUGGY]

Probably a few, due to general demographics, and I don't think the attack had the intended result. My guess was OBL thought the US if hit hard enough would retreat from Saudi and the gulf, leaving an opening for him to overthrow the Saudi sultan.

On a side note, while I have nothing against people being atheist, or theistic for that matter, you really dont have to be an asshole about it right off the bat.

Not a thing sparky! When was that 9/11 thingy again? Oh ya...9/11/01.. My patience has worn a tad thin on this subject. As for being an asshole... You can go fuck yourself! AND I mean that in the most assholio way you can imagine.

We clear?

Thanks for playing dipshit!

Wow, talk about thin skinned. You just let someone on the internet make you upset. calling somone an asshole is like the diet coke of insults, hell I got a friend and that is one of his nicknames.
You could have responded to my original comment without all the anti-religion snarkiness, but you chose to go the name calling "everyone who beleives in something is a drooling idiot" path. I called you out on it, simple as that.

(This thread may get derailed, I apologize in advance for it)

Who says we can't be friends?

This thread won't be derailed. There is too much rediculous religious hate in the world to prevent it.

 

[007]

the more people complain about the mosque, the more it will seem like a victory to the idiot islamics.

So...in order to be victorious people shouldn't voice opposition?

The fact of the matter is, the mosque & community center pose a huge safety risk. They are a symbol of Islamic victory over America to Muslims of the world and will attract every lunatic firebrand on the face of the earth.

The imam who is spearheading this effort refuses to name Hamas as a terror organization, blames America publicly for 9/11, and will not release who has provided Cordoba House with MILLIONS of dollars in less than a year. Two terror organizations signed off on the copywright page of his book about Dawa from the Rubble of 9/11.

And remember, dawa is a precursor to jihad.

So let's compare this fuck and this incredibly DANGEROUS plan to titty bars and drunks again. After all, they're exactly the same.

Well to some hypocrites here Ab, their far more concerned with some nudie pics of obama's mama and have a hissy fit cause she's dead, and oh it's such a dishonor to her to post a link to the nudie pics that her commie boy friend took, but hey, don't worry about honoring the lives of THREE THOUSAND PLUS INNOCENT MEN, WOMEN AND CHILDREN WHO WERE MURDERED IN COLD BLOOD. Screw them. It's no big deal if the very same religion the KILLERS PRACTICED want to build their victory mosque practically ON TOP OF THEIR HANDY WORK. So what. Honoring them is far less important than honoring obama's commie loving mama.

These liberals have no conscious, and their hypocrisy stinks to high heaven.

 

[Modbert]

42,116 people were killed in highway crashes in 2001, I therefore propose that we get rid of all the roads and allow no cars in order to preserve the sanctity of Ground Zero.

 

[HUGGY]

I just posted this over on Frankies Pork House thread but it really belongs here.
With the mods permission.....

OK.. Is it possible to break this down as if seeking answers to something that really matters?

I'm going to advance the notion that those vehemently opposed to the Muslim center/mosque have a legitimate and heartfelt grievance. I do not disagree that justice/vengeance/retribution has not been served. We have waited 9 years for our pound of flesh and our leaders and the military have been running this shell game "war on terror".

Let's back up to the days and weeks just after the attack and review how we were set up.

First of all Bush vowed to our faces on national television.."dead or alive into the gates of hell" blah blah blah. But those words now burn insult to all of us. Osama was cornered and Bush and our military unbelievably allowed him to escape. I for one at this late date find that treasonous failure suspect.

Try to imagine if you will what would have transpired if Osama had been captured and brought to New York for a trial and the obvious conclusion followed by a swift execution.

Al Qaeda would have been crushed...humiliated. Respect for our swift sword of justice and immediate vengeance and the language those animals understand would have been clear.

You fuck with us and we will truly go anywhere on this planet and drag you out from under the rock you hide under and make a clear and undeniable statement with your stank ass.

I don't know why Bush first allowed Bin Ladin to escape. We had the men in place and they were told to stand down while the very same people that are killing our troops in Afgahnistan were given the responsibility to close the door on Osama and deliver him to us.

Since then we have had our own government impose rediculous programs to punish US instead of us getting justice . Every time Bush needed a bump in popularity those cheezy terror alert colors would be thrown in our faces. Be afraid...VERY AFRAID!!! WHAT??? you don't believe we are being threatened??? OSAMA BIN LADIN is out there and he wants to kill YOU just for being Americans.

Never mind WHY he is still out there. Never mind that his spectre is used to flog us into submission.

HOW DARE THESE FUCKS ????????

Now 9 years later Osama is supposedly safe from our grasp because we can't go into Pakistan? BULLSHIT!!!! What ever happened to anywhere on this earth ...gates of Hell blah blah blah...

The muslems have been substituted by our government for the psycopath.

I've got one major gripe with the average muslim community. They should have and still should hand over Bin Ladin on a platter.

Failing that... Obama is a treasonous piece of shit if he does not demand his troops go directly into the area where Bin Ladin is supposed to be and no matter what those asswipes in Pakistan protest...GET THE FUCKING JOB DONE!!!!! Any body gets in the way...man, woman or child be fore warned ..you do so at the forfeit of life.

Pakistanz military tries to stop us? Tactical nukes !!! Not a seconds hesitation.

Our righteous pound of flesh is still waiting to be delivered. Stop picking on those who did not have anything to do with 9/11. Grow up, grow a pair and demand retribution from Obama, your representatives and the people charged with our protection.

If we do not demand this then shut the fuck up. You are all pussies and don't deserve anything more than the justice and fate served to a comon prison punk.

Sean Corey AKA HUGGY