Russia Threatens to electronically hamper U.S. missile defense facilityies in Poland

[Tech_Esq]

You are such a little pussy. Iran doesn't have the technology to reach Israel. It's missile tests earlier this year were a complete fabrication of re-used footage and shoddy video-editing.

Everyone knows that we're deliberately trying to antagonize Russia. What happens when you antagonize Russia?

tehran times : Chavez boasts nuclear cooperation with Russia
AFP: Putin says Russia should act to influence oil prices
Russia: Missiles depend on U.S. -- chicagotribune.com

If we want to antagonize Russia - we've done a good job.

So your answer is to do anything Russia wants so they won't be mad at us? Great idea!

Let's make sure we leave Poland vulnerable to Russia too. Anymore allies you want us to sell out or should we wait for Russia to ask to sell them out, before we cower?

 

[Navy1960]

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said on November 5 that Russia would deploy high-precision Iskander-M guided missile systems in its westernmost Kaliningrad exclave "to neutralize, if necessary, the anti-ballistic missile system in Europe."

RIA Novosti - World - Czech mayors oppose U.S. missile shield plans

The Iskander Tactical Missile System is considered to be among the most advanced surface / surface missiles available today.

Iskander-E is the export version of the Iskander M (9M72) short-range ballistic missile currently in service with the Russian Armed Forces (known by NATO designation SS-26). An earlier version is the SS-21 Tochka/Scarab, which was extensively used by the russian Army during the 2nd Chechnya war and during the conflict between Russia and Georgia in August 2008. The missile is designed for mobile, autonomous operation and is capable of striking point and area targets at ranges of 50 – 280 km. (The M version is believed to have a range of 400 km). Typical missions include the engagement of enemy fire support, such as MLRS and long range artillery, air defenses and missile defense assets, airfields, command, control and communications nodes and infrastructure targets.

The Iskander-E missile is a single stage, solid fuel missile weighing 3.8 tons, carrying a payload of 480 kg. it can be loaded with cluster, blast-fragmentation or penetration warheads. A Thermobaric warhead is also believed to be part of the missile's warhead options. An unconventional warhead could also be an option, including a tactical nuclear warhead.

The missile uses on-board navigation and flight control to shape its ballistic trajectory at the boost and terminal phases of its trajectory. Boost phase maneuvering enable the missile to correct the ballistic trajectory to best match the flight plan and mission (for example, to minimize detection range by enemy missile defenses). It also contributes to optimize the trajectory based on in-flight data. Terminal maneuvering is used to avoid missile defenses and further improve the hit accuracy, utilizing terminal sensor. According to Russian sources, the missile uses special composite materials to reduce the radar signature of the missile (or TEL?) to evade targeting radars employed by enemy surveillance sensors, UAVs and smart weapons.

Iskander M/E (SS-21 / SS-26)


Overall Test Record:
• Across all programs, 36 of 45 “Hit-to-Kill” intercept attempts have been successful since 2001
• 12 of 13 “Hit-to-Kill” intercepts have been successful since 2007

Terminal High Altitude Area Defense: 5 of 5 intercept attempts, 1 “no-test”
• Current test program began in 2006
• No-test: FTT-04 target malfunctioned after launch

http://www.mda.mil/mdalink/pdf/testrecord.pdf

People are under the mistaken impression that Missile Defense is a single Missile system or type is fixed and therefor vulnerable based on that Missile type. The fact is that Missile defense includes many different kinds of Radars and Missiles , both Sea based, and land based and yes space based. This also includes high altitude lasers as well as THAD which is another defense Missile. The Russian threat to Poland is simply based on the current dictator of that country needing to insure that the Russia's stranglehold on European Natural Gas is no threatened in anyway. The United States by nullifying the ability of Russias Natural Gas partner and Russia to threaten it's neighbors into providing them with even more wealth cannot be stepped on in anyway. Thus the the reason why you have the Russian positioning an IRBM that is quite cabable if being shot down on the border of Poland.

 

[Ravi]

I think the better idea is to quit the massive freak out every time some country tries to bluff us.

 

[Andrew2382]

You are such a little pussy. Iran doesn't have the technology to reach Israel. It's missile tests earlier this year were a complete fabrication of re-used footage and shoddy video-editing.

Everyone knows that we're deliberately trying to antagonize Russia. What happens when you antagonize Russia?

tehran times : Chavez boasts nuclear cooperation with Russia
AFP: Putin says Russia should act to influence oil prices
Russia: Missiles depend on U.S. -- chicagotribune.com

If we want to antagonize Russia - we've done a good job.

Israeli intel chief: Iran has long-range missiles - Mideast/N. Africa

Israeli intel chief: Iran has long-range missiles

JERUSALEM - Iran has received its first batch of North Korean-made surface-to-surface missiles that put European countries within firing range, Israel’s military intelligence chief said in an interview published Thursday.

The BM-25 missiles have a range of 1,550 miles and are capable of carrying nuclear warheads, the Haaretz daily reported.

 

[Andrew2382]

So is Australia. Are we now thinking of putting up anti-missile systems in Australia?

You can't even phathom that we might be doing something wrong. America is perfect in your eyes, huh? People like you are dangerous to this country. You're probably one of the 24% who think Bush is doing a swell job.

This is how fucking stupid you are.

There is a diff in distance between Iran and poland and Iran and Australia you fucking idiot.

Honestly, whats it gonna take for you to understand?

THe destruction of Israel?

Do you even give a shit about Isreal? Are you one of these Jews that use it as a talking point because they are jewish? I am starting to think so, because if it was up to you, we wouldn;t even be in the middle east and let them get wiped out

You're a waste of life David

 

[Turboswede]

Do you believe that when Georgia went in to re-take South Ossetia, that Russia was wrong to invade Georgia?

Not really, but I don’t have time to draft a backup for my answer. If we were talking over coffee (I am from, Seattle) then I would love to go into it.

 

[DavidS]

So your answer is to do anything Russia wants so they won't be mad at us? Great idea!

Typical Republican spin-machine at work. There's a difference between protecting our allies and deliberately trying to piss off another country. We're doing the latter.

 

[Tech_Esq]

I would agree with that but for the expanded development of tactical nuclear weapons in Russia throughout the 00’s and the expanded role for tactical nuclear weapons implimented under the Bush administration.

The argument that a global war cannot occur because of globalization is an argument I frequently get from the left as a rational for reducing defense spending. Assuming that a “hot” war were to develop between Russia and NATO would require that the global economic interdependency would have already been eliminated. I am sure that long before a shooting war starts in Europe, the western nations will have already taken steps to isolate Russia from the global economy.

I don’t think NATO or Russian strategists ever considered a full blown nuclear attack from the beginning of hostilities. US plans called for tactical nukes to be used against (Soviet) troop formations as it is unlikely the Soviets would have retaliated with strikes on US strategic forces. Russian strikes would then target western European port facilities to prevent their use by the US.

It is extremely unlikely that we would cross the line of nuclear annihilation in one leap, we would probably just crawl over it slowly.

Actually, you must be very post-Cold War. US and Russian strategists have considered every possible nuclear contingency in starting, ending and the chewy middle of the war.

One of our first strike possibilities, is to station one or two boomers (nuke subs) in the Baltic just off the coast. If I remember correctly, they would have something like 5 to 10 minutes to react to a decapitating strike at Moscow.

That would be followed closely by our bombers releasing a massive ALCM attack at their C4+I and response capability. Then the land-based MIRVs go. Our response preserved in as yet unused boomers. Good luck finding them!

The Russians on the other hand have a decapitating strike launched out of the Chesapeake Bay. About 2 minutes reaction time for us. Oh, Yippie, I get vaporized in this scenario.

Anyway, you get the point, this has all been thought out a million times. We just thought we were done thinking about it. Time to launch Operation Looking Glass again.

 

[Andrew2382]

No, you are taking the Russian spin on it, and keep thinking we are this evil country.

We aren't putting any offensive missiles at those sites.

They are all interceptor missiles that only have 1 function, intercepting other missiles.

We don't need a missile site in poland to bomb the shit out of another country.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Typical Republican spin-machine at work. There's a difference between protecting our allies and deliberately trying to piss off another country. We're doing the latter.

That's not a response dembot.

 

[Turboswede]

Certainly, why not? But, I really don't think it's analogous to the Russians. Their nuclear triad is no where near the strength of ours. The depend far too much on the land based missile systems. (and they know it). That and their traditional Russian xenophobia, is why they are throwing a fit like a two year old.

You are right, both on Russian Xenophobia and on a possible missile defense deployment. The only thing is that the Russian’s are still hanging on to nuclear weapons as a stand in for conventional weapons and missile defense does have a destabilizing effect. I would not take issue with deploying the system in one of the “pre 91’” NATO countries as they are all still clearly within our sphere of influence.

 

[DavidS]

Not really, but I don’t have time to draft a backup for my answer. If we were talking over coffee (I am from, Seattle) then I would love to go into it.

Agreed. Georgia struck first, Russia answered back and pummeled Georgia. And how did we help Georgia exactly? We didn't. Who is to think that we're going to help the Ukraine or Poland if Russia attacks them? Our military is stretched more than it has ever been stretched and these idiots on here want to provoke Russia. All Russia needs to do is invade Poland and the Ukraine and watch how fast America DOESN'T come to their defense.

Russia has us by the balls. They can do anything they want right now and we can't do anything to stop them because our military is too stretched.

How many wars do you neo-cons want us fighting? If it were up to you, we'd have 100,000 troops in every country we didn't like. Enough war already. I'm sick of war. I'm sick of hearing about American troops dying every day. I'm sick of defense spending being hundreds of billions of dollars higher than education spending. We need to worry about America and not the rest of the world. And Andrew, we don't have US troops on the ground in Israel. Israel buys military equipment from the US - we make money off of that.

 

[Andrew2382]

Agreed. Georgia struck first, Russia answered back and pummeled Georgia. And how did we help Georgia exactly? We didn't. Who is to think that we're going to help the Ukraine or Poland if Russia attacks them? Our military is stretched more than it has ever been stretched and these idiots on here want to provoke Russia. All Russia needs to do is invade Poland and the Ukraine and watch how fast America DOESN'T come to their defense.

Russia has us by the balls. They can do anything they want right now and we can't do anything to stop them because our military is too stretched.

How many wars do you neo-cons want us fighting? If it were up to you, we'd have 100,000 troops in every country we didn't like. Enough war already. I'm sick of war. I'm sick of hearing about American troops dying every day. I'm sick of defense spending being hundreds of billions of dollars higher than education spending. We need to worry about America and not the rest of the world. And Andrew, we don't have US troops on the ground in Israel. Israel buys military equipment from the US - we make money off of that.

Please tell me where I said we had personal in Isreal.

The whole reason the country exists is because we let them buy equipment off of us.

So we should worry about america only, and say a big fuck you to Isreal

I see

You're a pussy,

You;re the kid who got pushed around high school huh, did peoples math homework for them and shit. Cause apparently you can't stand confrontation

 

[Tech_Esq]

Agreed. Georgia struck first, Russia answered back and pummeled Georgia. And how did we help Georgia exactly? We didn't. Who is to think that we're going to help the Ukraine or Poland if Russia attacks them? Our military is stretched more than it has ever been stretched and these idiots on here want to provoke Russia. All Russia needs to do is invade Poland and the Ukraine and watch how fast America DOESN'T come to their defense.

Russia has us by the balls. They can do anything they want right now and we can't do anything to stop them because our military is too stretched.

How many wars do you neo-cons want us fighting? If it were up to you, we'd have 100,000 troops in every country we didn't like. Enough war already. I'm sick of war. I'm sick of hearing about American troops dying every day. I'm sick of defense spending being hundreds of billions of dollars higher than education spending. We need to worry about America and not the rest of the world. And Andrew, we don't have US troops on the ground in Israel. Israel buys military equipment from the US - we make money off of that.

Could you please be a little more nauseatingly whiny? Geez!

I'm beginning to feel like I do when I'm posting to Sealybobo. But, once more into the breach....

We learned that it is better to fight wars in other people's countries than ours. You know why? Do you?

Because their entire infrastructure gets broken in the process. The collateral damage is their people dead not ours. If it's a little fucking inconvenient for you to hear about US soldiers dying then read this:

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. --- John Stuart Mill

That's you they are talking about there. Get it?

 

[Turboswede]

All Russia needs to do is invade Poland and the Ukraine and watch how fast America DOESN'T come to their defense.

Poland is a member of NATO so we would be forced to back them. We managed to Expand NATO while the Russians were preoccupied with internal issues and (pre WW2) Poland had a strong connection with the West.

That’s why I strongly oppose any Eastward expansion on NATO, now that Russia has started to focus on international affairs again, they would be actively, if not vehemently, opposed to the eastward expansion of NATO. I think we are fortunate in that, while the US may favor NATO expansion, the rest of NATO has no desire to go to war over the Ukraine or Belorussia.

 

[DavidS]

Someone sent this to me:

It's almost like you can't reason past someone's perspective because they see things they want and that isn't rational. How can you reason with someone who is irrational?

You can't argue with an absolutist. You neo-cons are absolutists. War here. War now. War everywhere.

Meanwhile, there's a country to run.

So you guys have fun being angry and all pro-military while Obama actually fixes this country from someone who thinks just like you guys.

It's almost as if their brains have de-evolved. They can only see things in black and white - they can't wrap their minds around why anyone would ever want to attack precious little America on 9/11. Why, America's perfect.

 

[Andrew2382]

Someone sent this to me:

You can't argue with an absolutist. You neo-cons are absolutists. War here. War now. War everywhere.

Meanwhile, there's a country to run.

So you guys have fun being angry and all pro-military while Obama actually fixes this country from someone who thinks just like you guys.

It's almost as if their brains have de-evolved. They can only see things in black and white - they can't wrap their minds around why anyone would ever want to attack precious little America on 9/11. Why, America's perfect.

So in your opinion 9/11 was a justified attack

Good job, david

You are prob the biggest cocksucker on these boards.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Poland is a member of NATO so we would be forced to back them. We managed to Expand NATO while the Russians were preoccupied with internal issues and (pre WW2) Poland had a strong connection with the West.

That’s why I strongly oppose any Eastward expansion on NATO, now that Russia has started to focus on international affairs again, they would be actively, if not vehemently, opposed to the eastward expansion of NATO. I think we are fortunate in that, while the US may favor NATO expansion, the rest of NATO has no desire to go to war over the Ukraine or Belorussia.

I'm not sure I see the wisdom in sacrificing the Ukrainians (or the Georgians really) to an expansionist Russia just because Russia feels the "near abroad" is theirs to do with what they please.

If the Ukrainian people wish to join NATO (as has been shown by overwhelming plebiscite, then what we're really saying is we shouldn't include them because we're pussies and we're afraid Russia won't be happy about it.

I mean really, the Ukrainian people are people too. We shouldn't just abandon them because it's too much trouble.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Someone sent this to me:

You can't argue with an absolutist. You neo-cons are absolutists. War here. War now. War everywhere.

Meanwhile, there's a country to run.

So you guys have fun being angry and all pro-military while Obama actually fixes this country from someone who thinks just like you guys.

It's almost as if their brains have de-evolved. They can only see things in black and white - they can't wrap their minds around why anyone would ever want to attack precious little America on 9/11. Why, America's perfect.

If it makes you feel better to stick people in a box so you don't have to actually respond to uncomfortable debate, then go ahead. It says more about you than it does about them.

There are a good chunk of us on the right that actually reject neo-con thinking, but that doesn't be that we become left-wing pussies. There are plenty of other foreign policy philosophies besides neo-con and pussy.

You should learn about them before you box people up and decide what they are.

 

[DavidS]

So in your opinion 9/11 was a justified attack

Good job, david

You are prob the biggest cocksucker on these boards.

Show me where I said 9/11 was justified you motherfucker. I lost friends and family in that fucking attack you little dipshit.