Roosevelt: Stupidity or Mendacity?

[Ravi]

So much of the right will simply never forgive FDR for beating the Nazis.

And there you have it.

 

[Unkotare]

So give some examples of the USA and FDR confiscating business's of minorities or political opponents and turning them over to cronies or government agencies.

Are you serious? Have you never studied the history of that period?

It should be easy for you to show us an abundance of examples of police and military sweeping people up in the USA to send them to the forced labor camps...

Should be easy for you too, if you had any education at all.


http://rahabfaith.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/japanese-american-internment-train.jpg


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-YB471z0_4tw/UiAaXWAR7aI/AAAAAAAAASU/D1r1UGfO4Xg/s1600/racism.jpg


http://blognetwork.kilpatricktownse.../files/2014/06/JapaneseAmericanGrocer1942.jpg


http://www.topsecretwriters.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/evacuationsale.png


http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lw3k1hltGK1qfet8co1_1280.jpg


http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images...35554651249/Japanese-American-childre-008.jpg


http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.town...25c-91d5-97c80879c596/5210241490fcd.image.jpg


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Posted_Japanese_American_Exclusion_Order.jpg


http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/infocus/ww2_10/w26_1a35013u.jpg


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-AKQh11ojkEc/Tiz3WrGY2FI/AAAAAAAABT4/CbMV0VUjbOE/s1600/SantaAnia_gun.gif

 

[Camp]

First, the people of FDR's generation elected FDR four times.

Wow, and saddam hussein was only elected three times!

I just noticed this post comparing the elections of Saddam in Iraq to the elections of FDR in the USA. Can we get a little bit more anti American and hate our history a bit more on the day before our Birthday. Geez, these people are comparing FDR to Hitler and Stalin and Mussolini and now, Saddam.
Someone should start a new TV Reality show. Call it "Desperate Azzwholes".

 

[Camp]

Are you serious? Have you never studied the history of that period?

It should be easy for you to show us an abundance of examples of police and military sweeping people up in the USA to send them to the forced labor camps...

Should be easy for you too, if you had any education at all.


http://rahabfaith.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/japanese-american-internment-train.jpg


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-YB471z0_4tw/UiAaXWAR7aI/AAAAAAAAASU/D1r1UGfO4Xg/s1600/racism.jpg


http://blognetwork.kilpatricktownse.../files/2014/06/JapaneseAmericanGrocer1942.jpg


http://www.topsecretwriters.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/evacuationsale.png


http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lw3k1hltGK1qfet8co1_1280.jpg


http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images...35554651249/Japanese-American-childre-008.jpg


http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.town...25c-91d5-97c80879c596/5210241490fcd.image.jpg


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Posted_Japanese_American_Exclusion_Order.jpg


http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/infocus/ww2_10/w26_1a35013u.jpg


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-AKQh11ojkEc/Tiz3WrGY2FI/AAAAAAAABT4/CbMV0VUjbOE/s1600/SantaAnia_gun.gif

None of this represents activities instigated in the Depression era or instigated for, or as national economic policy or benefit. These incidents were implemented after Pearl Harbor for alleged national security purposes. A black mark on our record, but they were not death camps, the people were not starved, beaten, executed, etc. No comparison to what Hitler, Stalin and Mussolini were doing. Insulting that you suggest Japanese internment camps were the same as Nazi death camps or the Soviet Gulag where millions vanished without a trace.

 

[Unkotare]

I wonder what the world would look like now if the isolationist Republicans had been elected?
This forum would be in German and Japanese.

That really doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[Unkotare]

Insulting that you suggest Japanese internment camps were the same as Nazi death camps or the Soviet Gulag where millions vanished without a trace.

I never said anything about Hitler's death camps or the Soviet gulag, you just did. You made a rather dramatic demand for evidence of something and I provided it. You think no one died trying to escape FDR's concentration camps? Those armed guard towers weren't there for show. You think the victims of FDR's concentration camps weren't made to work? Guess again. You think the victims of FDR's concentration camps didn't have their homes, businesses, and liberties stolen from them? Too bad you never received an education. Trying to defend FDR's CONCENTRATION CAMPS is a dead-end for you and your idol worship, champ.

 

[Unkotare]

First, the people of FDR's generation elected FDR four times.

Wow, and saddam hussein was only elected three times!

I just noticed this post comparing the elections of Saddam in Iraq to the elections of FDR in the USA. Can we get a little bit more anti American and hate our history a bit more on the day before our Birthday. Geez, these people are comparing FDR to Hitler and Stalin and Mussolini and now, Saddam.
Someone should start a new TV Reality show. Call it "Desperate Azzwholes".

Who was it who suggested the number of times a president is elected is some indicator of their virtue and value as a leader? Wasn't me.

 

[Camp]

Insulting that you suggest Japanese internment camps were the same as Nazi death camps or the Soviet Gulag where millions vanished without a trace.

I never said anything about Hitler's death camps or the Soviet gulag, you just did. You made a rather dramatic demand for evidence of something and I provided it. You think no one died trying to escape FDR's concentration camps? Those armed guard towers weren't there for show. You think the victims of FDR's concentration camps weren't made to work? Guess again. You think the victims of FDR's concentration camps didn't have their homes, businesses, and liberties stolen from them? Too bad you never received an education. Trying to defend FDR's CONCENTRATION CAMPS is a dead-end for you and your idol worship, champ.

You just jumped into a discussion without reading the preceding post to ascertain what was actually being discussed. That is because you are a hate filled snobby overconfident poster that looks down on everyone who disagrees with you in the least. You do it very often. It's your trademark. Snotty little comments made while interrupting discussions to detract and deflect discussions that aren't going the way you want. Spoiled frat boy behavior is what it mimics. Seems you like to insult other peoples education and kind of infer that you have a good one. That is classic frat boy crap. I'll bet you drop names a lot in real life.

 

[Unkotare]

Insulting that you suggest Japanese internment camps were the same as Nazi death camps or the Soviet Gulag where millions vanished without a trace.

I never said anything about Hitler's death camps or the Soviet gulag, you just did. You made a rather dramatic demand for evidence of something and I provided it. You think no one died trying to escape FDR's concentration camps? Those armed guard towers weren't there for show. You think the victims of FDR's concentration camps weren't made to work? Guess again. You think the victims of FDR's concentration camps didn't have their homes, businesses, and liberties stolen from them? Too bad you never received an education. Trying to defend FDR's CONCENTRATION CAMPS is a dead-end for you and your idol worship, champ.

You just jumped into a discussion without reading the preceding post to ascertain what was actually being discussed.

I read all the preceding posts. Try again.

 

[Unkotare]

I'll bet you drop names a lot in real life.

That's not what my close personal friend Burt Bacharach always says. In fact, he's got something entirely different to add:

 

[PoliticalChic]

FDR did not "beat the Nazis." Stop being a nuthugger.

It's true. WE WON WWII !!! It was in all the papers. Don't know how you could have missed it. Everyone on the winning side gets credit.

But it's a lose-lose situation for some conservatives. First, the people of FDR's generation elected FDR four times, then the historians of the next generations elect FDR as one of the three greatest American presidents, and recently the historians of our generation elected FDR as the greatest American president.
How do conservatives cope with these facts, well first, historians are communists and teach history in our universities, secondly we didn't win WWII, thirdly Hoover would have cleaned up the Great Depression if he had only followed Harding's lead.
I try to feel sorry for these conservatives knowing their lose-lose problem but it's hard.
Still, we don't want to chase them off the boards, they are fun.

You can tap-dance and subject-change as you wish....but the question remains to be answered by you FDR-groupies:

Today it will be proven....proven....that FDR knew the correct way the recession should be dealt with....yet he chose to do the opposite, causing and extending a Depression.
Proven.
Why he did so remains to be answered.

 

[PoliticalChic]

So give some examples of the USA and FDR confiscating business's of minorities or political opponents and turning them over to cronies or government agencies. If we and FDR were imitating Mussolini, Hitler and Stalin, who were the Americans that disappeared into forced labor camps where people were starved and worked to death. Which countries did we invade the way Mussolini did to steal resources and enslave the population into a work force. What in America compares to the forced famine as occurred in Ukraine and Russia to transform the agriculture system.

I gave a link to show how the WPA worked. That is how FDR transformed the economy. It may have prolonged the depression as some claim, but it meant people ate and clothed their families and put roofs over there heads while the economy struggled to right itself. It certainly doesn't in any way resemble what Hitler or Mussolini or Stalin were doing. To suggest a resemblance is just shameful deceit.

These men were paid and housed and given jobs with dignity. They were not herded into camps to be worked to death for no pay and bits of bread and watery potato soup.

WPA (Works Progress Administration) - 1937 - YouTube

Today it will be proven....proven....that FDR knew the correct way the recession should be dealt with....yet he chose to do the opposite, causing and extending a Depression.
Proven.
Why he did so remains to be answered.


Answer the question.

I believe I gave you the answer. My opinion is that FDR had hope for cooperation and brought on Lewis Douglas in an effort to show his willingness to cooperate. Douglas certainly didn't fit in the FDR administration. So, I believe he gave up on the cooperation thing quickly and did a complete turn. He decided to go the complete opposite route.

I assume you are influenced by Folsom and NEW DEAL-RAW DEAL. Are you familiar with his work? And good lord, you must love this work by Stockman.

FDR: Sowing the Seeds of Chaos - David Stockman - Mises Daily

Your 'answer' is a fabrication. He was expansionist from the very first 100 days.

My answer explains all of his economic and political actions.

 

[PoliticalChic]

aka He campaigned on Lies and the distortion of the truth.

We are seeing the same today, as they Lie their asses off for political power.

WWII brought us out of the Depression........and FDR would never let a good crisis go to waste before that.

If there had been no Depression, or WWII he would have been nobody in history. Same as Wilson.

A massive goverment spending program known as WWII brought us out of the depression.

Sorry you didn't feel up to answering the question.

 

[JoeB131]

I think my post pretty much sums up the quality and intellectual level of these types of threads.

Has anybody told you people FDR is dead, and not running for office?

Doesn't anybody want to know what type of BBQ sauce the Roosevelts like on their barbecued babies?

One thing your post does is reveal your "quality and intellectual level."

Why the deeply ingrained fear of the truth?

It is as though changing your mind to accommodate the facts would be an affront to Liberalism.
Your motto: 'Onward, rather than correctness or rectitude.'
Rather like a rhinoceros, fitting your cerebral capacities.

I am guessing you are too young to really know anyone who lived through the FDR years.

Clearly, the American people thought he was wonderful, which is why he won the White House FOUR TIMES in electoral landslides.

Here's what FDR did with the economy. He fixed it without either wrecking an empire, like the British did, or turning the country into a dictatorship, like just about everyone else did.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I gave the real answer. His intention was to imitate the economic policies of Mussolini, Hitler and Stalin.

And he did.

So give some examples of the USA and FDR confiscating business's of minorities or political opponents and turning them over to cronies or government agencies. If we and FDR were imitating Mussolini, Hitler and Stalin, who were the Americans that disappeared into forced labor camps where people were starved and worked to death. Which countries did we invade the way Mussolini did to steal resources and enslave the population into a work force. What in America compares to the forced famine as occurred in Ukraine and Russia to transform the agriculture system.

I gave a link to show how the WPA worked. That is how FDR transformed the economy. It may have prolonged the depression as some claim, but it meant people ate and clothed their families and put roofs over there heads while the economy struggled to right itself. It certainly doesn't in any way resemble what Hitler or Mussolini or Stalin were doing. To suggest a resemblance is just shameful deceit.

These men were paid and housed and given jobs with dignity. They were not herded into camps to be worked to death for no pay and bits of bread and watery potato soup.

[ame=http://youtube.com/watch?v=Aq5UiGdje8U]WPA (Works Progress Administration) - 1937 - YouTube[/ame]

The New Deal had a number of work programs. I spent six months in the CCC's at camp Blue Lake Wisconsin. I got thirty dollars a month and the option to send $25 home and keep five big ones for my very own. If I chose to send the 25 home the government put in another five so me mother got thirty big ones. Mother loved the three C's. I also learned the ribald CCC song, and still remember some of the verses. I never heard anyone in the camp not even the few army noncoms speak Italian.

"The Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) was a public work relief program that operated from 1933 to 1942 in the United States for unemployed, unmarried men from relief families, ages 18–25....."
Civilian Conservation Corps - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



So.....when was your 90th birthday?

 

[PoliticalChic]

I think my post pretty much sums up the quality and intellectual level of these types of threads.

Has anybody told you people FDR is dead, and not running for office?

Doesn't anybody want to know what type of BBQ sauce the Roosevelts like on their barbecued babies?

One thing your post does is reveal your "quality and intellectual level."

Why the deeply ingrained fear of the truth?

It is as though changing your mind to accommodate the facts would be an affront to Liberalism.
Your motto: 'Onward, rather than correctness or rectitude.'
Rather like a rhinoceros, fitting your cerebral capacities.

I am guessing you are too young to really know anyone who lived through the FDR years.

Clearly, the American people thought he was wonderful, which is why he won the White House FOUR TIMES in electoral landslides.

Here's what FDR did with the economy. He fixed it without either wrecking an empire, like the British did, or turning the country into a dictatorship, like just about everyone else did.

"I am guessing you are too young to really know anyone who lived through the FDR years."

True.....


....but I even know about William the Conqueror......and I'm not even 948 yet!

Seems not having been indoctrinated as so many of your FDR-myth believers were, is quite the advantage.


The OP proves....in FDR's own words, my premise.



How about an attempt at answering the question:

"Today it will be proven....proven....that FDR knew the correct way the recession should be dealt with....yet he chose to do the opposite, causing and extending a Depression.
Proven.
Why he did so remains to be answered."




None in this thread have provided a credible response.
Can you?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Roosevelt: Stupidity or Mendacity?

This fails as a straw man fallacy.

But the fact that after 69 years FDR is still able to aggravate the ignorant partisan right, such as the OP, is both entertaining and telling.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Roosevelt: Stupidity or Mendacity?

This fails as a straw man fallacy.

But the fact that after 69 years FDR is still able to aggravate the ignorant partisan right, such as the OP, is both entertaining and telling.

How about an attempt at answering the question:

"Today it will be proven....proven....that FDR knew the correct way the recession should be dealt with....yet he chose to do the opposite, causing and extending a Depression.
Proven.
Why he did so remains to be answered."

 

[Camp]

Today it will be proven....proven....that FDR knew the correct way the recession should be dealt with....yet he chose to do the opposite, causing and extending a Depression.
Proven.
Why he did so remains to be answered.


Answer the question.

I believe I gave you the answer. My opinion is that FDR had hope for cooperation and brought on Lewis Douglas in an effort to show his willingness to cooperate. Douglas certainly didn't fit in the FDR administration. So, I believe he gave up on the cooperation thing quickly and did a complete turn. He decided to go the complete opposite route.

I assume you are influenced by Folsom and NEW DEAL-RAW DEAL. Are you familiar with his work? And good lord, you must love this work by Stockman.

FDR: Sowing the Seeds of Chaos - David Stockman - Mises Daily

Your 'answer' is a fabrication. He was expansionist from the very first 100 days.

My answer explains all of his economic and political actions.

You have done as I predicted. While you acknowledge that I answered your question, you have labeled it a "fabrication" and again, as predicted, declared victory and informed us that you and only you have the answers.

Noticeably, and as usual, you ignore and fail to answer questions asked of you or challenges to your assertions. So your assertion that FDR used the same methods as Mussolini, Hitler and Stalin and the challenge made to you to prove it just gets ignored and left out of the discussion.

In regard to the question you claim is a fabrication, I suggest you or anyone in doubt of my analysis refer to E.O. 6166, signed by FDR on 10 June 1933 giving Douglas power over waving, and modifying apportionments and appropriations. When he was given even more authority with E.O. 6548 on 3 Jan 1934, there arose great protest from the Secretaries and Administration officials. Douglas had written a 10 page critical letter on 30 Dec. 1933. In it he predicted if FDR's policies and the policies his team had designed were followed there would be "years of intense suffering on the part of millions". Three days after E.O. 6548 the protest led to E.O. 6550 which canceled out 6548 and put restrictions on Douglas's authority. Douglas resigned within the year and was transferred to other positions in the administration of far less authority.

So my fabricated answer was based of factual data that can be retrieved and viewed by anyone. Now how about you answer some of the challenges made to you. Like the claim that FDR used forced labor camps and enslaved millions of citizens just like Mussolini, Hitler and Stalin to fight the depression and boost the economy.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I believe I gave you the answer. My opinion is that FDR had hope for cooperation and brought on Lewis Douglas in an effort to show his willingness to cooperate. Douglas certainly didn't fit in the FDR administration. So, I believe he gave up on the cooperation thing quickly and did a complete turn. He decided to go the complete opposite route.

I assume you are influenced by Folsom and NEW DEAL-RAW DEAL. Are you familiar with his work? And good lord, you must love this work by Stockman.

FDR: Sowing the Seeds of Chaos - David Stockman - Mises Daily

Your 'answer' is a fabrication. He was expansionist from the very first 100 days.

My answer explains all of his economic and political actions.

You have done as I predicted. While you acknowledge that I answered your question, you have labeled it a "fabrication" and again, as predicted, declared victory and informed us that you and only you have the answers.

Noticeably, and as usual, you ignore and fail to answer questions asked of you or challenges to your assertions. So your assertion that FDR used the same methods as Mussolini, Hitler and Stalin and the challenge made to you to prove it just gets ignored and left out of the discussion.

In regard to the question you claim is a fabrication, I suggest you or anyone in doubt of my analysis refer to E.O. 6166, signed by FDR on 10 June 1933 giving Douglas power over waving, and modifying apportionments and appropriations. When he was given even more authority with E.O. 6548 on 3 Jan 1934, there arose great protest from the Secretaries and Administration officials. Douglas had written a 10 page critical letter on 30 Dec. 1933. In it he predicted if FDR's policies and the policies his team had designed were followed there would be "years of intense suffering on the part of millions". Three days after E.O. 6548 the protest led to E.O. 6550 which canceled out 6548 and put restrictions on Douglas's authority. Douglas resigned within the year and was transferred to other positions in the administration of far less authority.

So my fabricated answer was based of factual data that can be retrieved and viewed by anyone. Now how about you answer some of the challenges made to you. Like the claim that FDR used forced labor camps and enslaved millions of citizens just like Mussolini, Hitler and Stalin to fight the depression and boost the economy.

"You have done as I predicted. While you acknowledge that I answered your question, you have labeled it a "fabrication" and again, as predicted, declared victory and informed us that you and only you have the answers."


I didn't merely label your babble a fabrication.....I proved that it was.

And I don't mind doing so again:

1. Douglas's time as budget director proved frustrating."
Lewis Williams Douglas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wait....Even a quick glance at the economic history of the Roosevelt administration would show no such fiscal conservatism.



2. Now then: did appointing Lewis Douglas mean that Roosevelt would carry out his promises?
Well....to begin with, in March of 1933, he didn't fill his cabinet with persons committed to a balanced budget. A pretty much poke 'in your eye.'

a. Nah....instead the bunch put together the huge spending and administrative expansion of his first hundred day, Douglas knew the real deal.

b. Roosevelt expanded the federal government and ran up deficits much greater than those of Hoover.




3. . "[Roosevelt] pointed to the clipping, patting it with his fingertips, and said he was curious how such fantastic stories got around. He said, most affably, that I needn't have swallowed such a cock-and-bull story, for all I had to do was call him and check the facts, as I was always free to do. This was news to me.....My story about an agreed-on cutback, he said, was made up out of whole cloth....I later confirmed that Roosevelt had led Douglas to believe he'd accepted his budget cuts....
"My Life and The Times," by Turner Catledge, p.83-84





And the only credible explanation was Roosevelt's desire to be re-created in the economic images of Mussolini, Hitler, and Stalin.

And he was.