Roosevelt, Stalin and The Elusive "Second Front"

[JakeStarkey]

We caught you in a lie, PC. You can't post any of the Professor's evidence that supports your OP, can you?

Have you read the book? The answer is clearly no.

Your affirmation, kid, meet it.

 

[PoliticalChic]

9. "This talk about a 'second front' is getting annoying," a letter to the editor dated February 23, 1943, begins.
Listing assorted theaters of war including China, The South Pacific, Burma, and North Africa, the writer concludes "that when people talk about a second front what they mean is a ninth front"
From "Our Indispensible Fronts," NYTimes, February 25, 1943.
Quoted in "American Betrayal," West, p.269.


10. Somehow, only an Allied invasion via Normandy would count as an authentic 'second front.'
How to understand these decisions?
"Washington (U.P.)- A highly reliable informant who has first hand information of events in the Soviet Union said tonight the Russian people would not regard even a major Allied success in North Africa as the answer to their desire for the opening of a second front."
“Drive in North Africa Not Enough,” New York Times, October 28, 1942.


a. Give FDR credit: he sent over 100,000 Allied troops into North Africa in November. Yet he, Marshall, and Hopkins never waiverd from northern France as their 'second front.'

b. "Stalin Still Insisting On That Second Front...belittles fighting in Africa." NYTimes, November 8, 1942

c. "Soviet Renews Cry For Second Front"
NYTimes, March 12, 1943



11. And....surprise!....Stalin got exactly what he wanted from Franklin Roosevelt.

a. The attack at Normandy, instead of the Adriatic

b. Lend-Lease poured into Russia at the expense of Allied requirements (included uranium for a bomb).

c. An international socialist organ, the United Nations, where Russia got 3 votes to the US's single one. A Soviet agent as first sec'y general.

d. Hegemony and control of all of Eastern Europe

e. Crushing of Germany,which might have stood in Stalin's way, without allowing surrender years earlier.


BTW.....over 20,000 United States soldiers were captured and never returned by the USSR.
So.....who won WWII?

 

[Thunderbird]

Here's an article that discusses Benn Steil’s The Battle of Bretton Woods: John Maynard Keynes, Harry Dexter White, and the Making of a New World Order: The Communist Agent Who Caused Pearl Harbor — and Global Economic Havoc

Quote: Steil discusses White’s crucial role as a Soviet agent in the decisions and events that brought about the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Steil writes:

“We sighed a deep sigh of relief,” recalled the head of the American desk of the NKVD Intelligence Directorate, Vitali Pavlov. Yet this was not merely cheerleading from the sidelines. Pavlov had, secretly, been part of the game.

The Japanese decision to attack Pearl Harbor was the culmination of a series of critical political developments and, clearly, no single event, no single action, and no single individual can be said to have triggered it. Nevertheless, the most proximate cause has the curious connection with Pavlov and his most important American contact, Harry Dexter White.

Steil notes that, as a result of White’s fierce lobbying, FDR “authorized [Secretary of State] Hull to present the Japanese with what became known as the Ten-Point Note. Hull summoned Nomura and Kurusu on November 26 to deliver the austere ultimatum, incorporating White’s demands on China, without concessions. An alarmed Kurusu told Hull that the Japanese government would ‘throw up its hands’ if presented with such a response to their truce proposal. Hull did not waiver. The collision course had been set.”

And Soviet agent Harry Dexter White had set that course. Steil comments:

That White was the author of the key ultimatum demands is beyond dispute. That the Japanese government made the decision to move forward with the Pearl Harbor strike after receiving the ultimatum is also beyond dispute.

Steil notes that “the Soviets, American allies in the European war, were anxious to ensure that such an attack did take place.” He quotes Soviet spymaster Vladimir Karpov in this regard:

“The war in the Pacific could have been avoided,” wrote retired GRU military intelligence colonel and World War II “Hero of the Soviet Union” Vladimir Karpov in 2000, nearly sixty years after Pearl Harbor. “Stalin was the real initiator of the ultimatum to Japan,” he insisted.

How was that possible? Steil allows Karpov to explain:

“Harry Dexter White was acting in accordance with a design initiated by [NKVD intelligence official Iskhak] Akhmerov and Pavlov,” Karpov argued. “[White] prepared the aide-memoire for signature by Morgenthau and President Roosevelt.” The Soviets had, according to Karpov, used White to provoke Japan to attack the United States. The scheme even had a name, “Operation Snow,” snow referring to White. “[T]he essence of ‘Operation Snow’ was to provoke the war between the Empire of the Rising Sun and the USA and to insure the interests of the Soviet Union in the Far East.... If Japan was engaged in a war against the USA it would have no resources to strike against the USSR."

 

[Ravi]

Did FDR do a con-job on old Stalin about the second front? I mean all those excuses over the years must have had an effect on old Joe. How long can you do "The second front Is in the mail" before it get old. But I also think of the America lives FDR saved with the delay. Wonder how that delay is written up in the Russian history books?

Mmmmmmm, that's basically it. And PC and Stalin were both conned. Which makes PC a Stalinist.

 

[Thunderbird]

FDR deserves considerable blame for Communist infiltration into the U.S. government:

History News Network Hiss Was Guilty

McCarthyism Waging the Cold War in America Human Events

"Accomplishments" of Marxism-Leninism: The Black Book of Communism - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Thunderbird]

Stalin's engineered famine killed millions.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Still no objective evidence accepted by the great majority of politicians. We have been through this at least six times in the last eighteen months. It's tiring.

PC admits, obviously, she has not read the professor's book but is willing to suggest it supports her thesis.

I suggest next time the mods place it in the Conspiracy forum.

 

[Thunderbird]

Silvermaster is such a perfect name for a traitor, reminiscent of thirty pieces of silver.

Nathan Gregory Silvermaster - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Thunderbird]

More "gifts" of Marxism-Leninism:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/16/opinion/16iht-eddikotter16.html?_r=0

 

[JakeStarkey]

 

[CrusaderFrank]

FDR save the county by pulling it out of the great depression and defeating Nazi Germany. Probably the best president since Washington, maybe even better.

He had no love of Hitler and Stalin.

When did FDR pull out of the Depression?

What year exactly?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

PC makes no scholarly revelations about FDR.

She made herself look like a fool last time she tackled this subject.

Readers, understand that she is writing for a small online and podcast audience who are as delusional as is she.

Request that this be placed in the Conspiracy forum.

Jake, defender of Progressives

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Harry White's Creed, which PC hates

"I believe in freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of the press, freedom of criticism, and freedom of movement. I believe in the goal of equality of opportunity, and the right of each individual to follow the calling of his or her own choice, and the right of every individual to have an opportunity to develop his or her capacity to the fullest. . . . I consider these principles sacred. I regard them as the basic fabric of our American way of life, and I believe in them as living realities, and not mere words on paper. This is my creed."

Harry White, Communist Spy

Good work, Jake

 

[NYcarbineer]

You have been unable to deny any of the documented, linked, sourced, facts that I have provided.

You remain a lying imbecile....and many know it.

The country in 1933 was ready to hand FDR dictatorial powers, but he refused them. That is the fact of that matter,

well described here:

The Fireside Chat that Roosevelt Threw Away by Jonathan Alter

 

[PoliticalChic]

You have been unable to deny any of the documented, linked, sourced, facts that I have provided.

You remain a lying imbecile....and many know it.

The country in 1933 was ready to hand FDR dictatorial powers, but he refused them. That is the fact of that matter,

well described here:

The Fireside Chat that Roosevelt Threw Away by Jonathan Alter

"The country in 1933 was ready to hand FDR dictatorial powers, but he refused them."
Utter nonsense.
He used them to shred the Constitution.

1. In 1933, Fascism was celebrating its eleventh year in power, in Italy, and the election of the National Socialists in Germany represented an unmitigated defeat for liberal democracy in Europe’s largest industrialized nation. Schivelbusch, Op.Cit. 2. At the beginning of the same month, FDR was inaugurated as President. And before Congress went into recess it granted powers to Roosevelt unprecedented in peacetime. From Congressional hearings, 1973: “Since March 9, 1933, the United States has been in a state of declared national emergency.” Freedomsite.net

 

[NYcarbineer]

You have been unable to deny any of the documented, linked, sourced, facts that I have provided.

You remain a lying imbecile....and many know it.

The country in 1933 was ready to hand FDR dictatorial powers, but he refused them. That is the fact of that matter,

well described here:

The Fireside Chat that Roosevelt Threw Away by Jonathan Alter

"The country in 1933 was ready to hand FDR dictatorial powers, but he refused them."
Utter nonsense.
He used them to shred the Constitution.

1. In 1933, Fascism was celebrating its eleventh year in power, in Italy, and the election of the National Socialists in Germany represented an unmitigated defeat for liberal democracy in Europe’s largest industrialized nation. Schivelbusch, Op.Cit. 2. At the beginning of the same month, FDR was inaugurated as President. And before Congress went into recess it granted powers to Roosevelt unprecedented in peacetime. From Congressional hearings, 1973: “Since March 9, 1933, the United States has been in a state of declared national emergency.” Freedomsite.net

You should have read the article I posted.

 

[NYcarbineer]

You have been unable to deny any of the documented, linked, sourced, facts that I have provided.

You remain a lying imbecile....and many know it.

The country in 1933 was ready to hand FDR dictatorial powers, but he refused them. That is the fact of that matter,

well described here:

The Fireside Chat that Roosevelt Threw Away by Jonathan Alter

"The country in 1933 was ready to hand FDR dictatorial powers, but he refused them."
Utter nonsense.
He used them to shred the Constitution.

1. In 1933, Fascism was celebrating its eleventh year in power, in Italy, and the election of the National Socialists in Germany represented an unmitigated defeat for liberal democracy in Europe’s largest industrialized nation. Schivelbusch, Op.Cit. 2. At the beginning of the same month, FDR was inaugurated as President. And before Congress went into recess it granted powers to Roosevelt unprecedented in peacetime. From Congressional hearings, 1973: “Since March 9, 1933, the United States has been in a state of declared national emergency.” Freedomsite.net

Great link:

The domain freedomsite.net may be for sale. Click here for details.

 

[Agit8r]

Seems that any scholarly revelation about Franklin Roosevelt produces the sort of ire that one would expect in response to a slur about one's dear, departed- and saintly- mom!

An earlier thread resulted in this unwarranted attack:

"I've accused you of being dishonest on one and an unqualified sloppy researcher on the other. Still you deflect, and refuse to respond on those topics, instead wanting to start a discussion on the old stand-by FDR was a communist tool of Stalin fantasy." Roosevelt s Great Depression Page 30 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum




What can I say? I'm left no course of action but to reveal more facts about Franklin Roosevelt that his devotees would rather left hidden.
Perhaps a stiff dose of the truth will prove to be a sort of shock therapy for these ....disciples.



Let's begin:

From well before his election, the liar- it is well documented that he was a liar- was a totalitarian aficionado: a dictator who adored other dictators.


1. For proper context, it is important to remember that the economic policies of Hitler, Mussolini, and Franklin Roosevelt were...sympatico.
And, consdier that the policies and view of Hitler and Stalin where, for the most part, identical....right down to genocide and concentration camps as government policy. Karl Marx had been the first political thinker to support same.

a. . "Early socialists publically advocated genocide, in the 19th and 20th centuries. It first appeared in Marx's journal, Rheinishe Zeitung, in January of 1849. When the socialist class war happens, there will be primitive societies in Europe, two stages behind- not even capitalist yet- the Basques, the Bretons, the Scottish Highlanders, the Serbs, and others he calls 'racial trash,' and they will have to be destroyed because, being two stages behind in the class struggle, it will be impossible to bring them up to being revolutionary."
George Watson, Historian, Cambridge University.




2. Hitler and Stalin were, essentially, clones. And, allies until 'Operation Barbarossa,...22 June 1941,... was the code name for Germany's invasion of the Soviet Union during World War II."
Operation Barbarossa - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

a. Where does Franklin Roosevelt come in? " Fascism did not acquire an evil name in Washington until Hitler became a menace to·the Soviet Union."
Manly, "The Twenty Year Revolution,"p. 48


Perhaps a closer look at Franklin Delano Roosevelt's intentions are long overdue.

How much does crack cost these days?

 

[Moonglow]

Seems that any scholarly revelation about Franklin Roosevelt produces the sort of ire that one would expect in response to a slur about one's dear, departed- and saintly- mom!

An earlier thread resulted in this unwarranted attack:

"I've accused you of being dishonest on one and an unqualified sloppy researcher on the other. Still you deflect, and refuse to respond on those topics, instead wanting to start a discussion on the old stand-by FDR was a communist tool of Stalin fantasy." Roosevelt s Great Depression Page 30 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum




What can I say? I'm left no course of action but to reveal more facts about Franklin Roosevelt that his devotees would rather left hidden.
Perhaps a stiff dose of the truth will prove to be a sort of shock therapy for these ....disciples.



Let's begin:

From well before his election, the liar- it is well documented that he was a liar- was a totalitarian aficionado: a dictator who adored other dictators.


1. For proper context, it is important to remember that the economic policies of Hitler, Mussolini, and Franklin Roosevelt were...sympatico.
And, consdier that the policies and view of Hitler and Stalin where, for the most part, identical....right down to genocide and concentration camps as government policy. Karl Marx had been the first political thinker to support same.

a. . "Early socialists publically advocated genocide, in the 19th and 20th centuries. It first appeared in Marx's journal, Rheinishe Zeitung, in January of 1849. When the socialist class war happens, there will be primitive societies in Europe, two stages behind- not even capitalist yet- the Basques, the Bretons, the Scottish Highlanders, the Serbs, and others he calls 'racial trash,' and they will have to be destroyed because, being two stages behind in the class struggle, it will be impossible to bring them up to being revolutionary."
George Watson, Historian, Cambridge University.




2. Hitler and Stalin were, essentially, clones. And, allies until 'Operation Barbarossa,...22 June 1941,... was the code name for Germany's invasion of the Soviet Union during World War II."
Operation Barbarossa - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

a. Where does Franklin Roosevelt come in? " Fascism did not acquire an evil name in Washington until Hitler became a menace to·the Soviet Union."
Manly, "The Twenty Year Revolution,"p. 48


Perhaps a closer look at Franklin Delano Roosevelt's intentions are long overdue.

How much does crack cost these days?

Depends who's crack it is...

 

[PoliticalChic]

Seems that any scholarly revelation about Franklin Roosevelt produces the sort of ire that one would expect in response to a slur about one's dear, departed- and saintly- mom!

An earlier thread resulted in this unwarranted attack:

"I've accused you of being dishonest on one and an unqualified sloppy researcher on the other. Still you deflect, and refuse to respond on those topics, instead wanting to start a discussion on the old stand-by FDR was a communist tool of Stalin fantasy." Roosevelt s Great Depression Page 30 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum




What can I say? I'm left no course of action but to reveal more facts about Franklin Roosevelt that his devotees would rather left hidden.
Perhaps a stiff dose of the truth will prove to be a sort of shock therapy for these ....disciples.



Let's begin:

From well before his election, the liar- it is well documented that he was a liar- was a totalitarian aficionado: a dictator who adored other dictators.


1. For proper context, it is important to remember that the economic policies of Hitler, Mussolini, and Franklin Roosevelt were...sympatico.
And, consdier that the policies and view of Hitler and Stalin where, for the most part, identical....right down to genocide and concentration camps as government policy. Karl Marx had been the first political thinker to support same.

a. . "Early socialists publically advocated genocide, in the 19th and 20th centuries. It first appeared in Marx's journal, Rheinishe Zeitung, in January of 1849. When the socialist class war happens, there will be primitive societies in Europe, two stages behind- not even capitalist yet- the Basques, the Bretons, the Scottish Highlanders, the Serbs, and others he calls 'racial trash,' and they will have to be destroyed because, being two stages behind in the class struggle, it will be impossible to bring them up to being revolutionary."
George Watson, Historian, Cambridge University.




2. Hitler and Stalin were, essentially, clones. And, allies until 'Operation Barbarossa,...22 June 1941,... was the code name for Germany's invasion of the Soviet Union during World War II."
Operation Barbarossa - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

a. Where does Franklin Roosevelt come in? " Fascism did not acquire an evil name in Washington until Hitler became a menace to·the Soviet Union."
Manly, "The Twenty Year Revolution,"p. 48


Perhaps a closer look at Franklin Delano Roosevelt's intentions are long overdue.

How much does crack cost these days?

You've implied that the post linked isn't true.....but, wisely, you didn't deny any of the facts.