Romney-Obama Debate Thread

[dblack]

I can't imagine Mitt pushing through any major legislation without strong Congressional support and without the approval of the people.

I can't imagine him doing anything to disrupt the corporatist 'horse-trade' at the core of PPACA. He made the same "deal" with the insurance lobby in his home state. He clearly sees nothing wrong with that kind of governance.

I suppose you've just decided that Romney is a little better than Obama and that justifies making excuses for him. I can't do it.

I have a feeling you wouldn't make any excuses for Romney, but still will give a pass to a proven failure. I just don't understand your logic, or lack there of.

Not clear what you mean. Care to elaborate?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Obama came off as a lost man wandering aimlessly in search of a single, cogent thought. At the end, all he had was babble about billionaires and tax breaks.

 

[Meister]

I can't imagine him doing anything to disrupt the corporatist 'horse-trade' at the core of PPACA. He made the same "deal" with the insurance lobby in his home state. He clearly sees nothing wrong with that kind of governance.

I suppose you've just decided that Romney is a little better than Obama and that justifies making excuses for him. I can't do it.

I have a feeling you wouldn't make any excuses for Romney, but still will give a pass to a proven failure. I just don't understand your logic, or lack there of.

Not clear what you mean. Care to elaborate?

No, I think you just proved a point of mine. Carry on.

 

[del]

He and Ryan at least seem to understand what fundamental freedom is, and why it is far more productive than anything managed by government. Yes, Romney has said some things that bother me re the powers of government, but I look at his track record and see results. Right now, if the bleeding isn't stopped, we will be Greece. Our number one priority must be to get people back to work and to get spending under conrol and start paying down the debt. If that doesn't happen, there is no chance for us to remain a free people.

Obama has proved in spades he has no instincts to do that and no intention of even trying. I trust Romney/Ryan far more to at least make a difference in that regard.

I really wish Superman or Jesus Christ were running this year. But since neither are, we should put the country ahead of politics and partisanship and get the best that we can get.

Mitt's track record shows that he's closer to Obama than people are willing to admit. Sure, he got things done in Mass. By raising taxes and squashing freedoms.

Sorry, but I don't see it. Mitt took over a budget that was in serious trouble in Massachusetts and balanced it with a combination of cutting spending and by ending certain deductions and closiing corporate loopholes that had never been intended to exist, and did that without substantially pissing anybody off. And he subsequently promoted and signed legislation to reduce taxes in Massachusetts 17 times.

He did pass Romneycare through bipartisan support in the legislature and with the blessings of most of the people--contrast that with Obama getting no bipartisan support for Obamacare and passing it against the approval of most of the people. The final vote was 239 to 213 which is pathetic considering Obama had a super majority at the time. Only two members of the Massachusetts legislature, one Democrat and one Republican, voted against Romneycare.

When Mitt left office, Massachusetts was 22nd in per capital tax burden, boasted very low unemployment, one of the highest per capita incomes, at or near the best rated schools in the country, and, other than the mandatory part of Romneycare, I fail to see that he trampled on anybody's freedoms. And at the state level, it isn't a restriction of freedom.

The Founders deemed that freedom included the right for the states/local communities to form whatever sort of society they wished to have, and that included the right to do it poorly or wrong. The states are free to organize as they want and the federal government would not step in to stop people from having whatever social contract and society that they want.

Romney and Ryan understand the difference between states rights and federal powers., and Mitt was reassuring about that in the debate. I don't believe Obama does.

I can't imagine Mitt pushing through any major legislation without strong Congressional support and without the approval of the people.

bullshit. he did it by cutting local aid to the bone and increasing every fee he could find.

and i can assure you, he pissed off plenty of people.

not least because he spent the majority of his term running for president.

as for the horse puckey about states rights and federal powers, if that lets you sleep at night, knock yourself out.

 

[dblack]

I have a feeling you wouldn't make any excuses for Romney, but still will give a pass to a proven failure. I just don't understand your logic, or lack there of.

Not clear what you mean. Care to elaborate?

No, I think you just proved a point of mine. Carry on.

And you have no interest in being clear on what that point is?

 

[KissMy]

I thought Romney won big, he made several points about the poor economic growth and UE numbers, and thoroughly debunked Obama's claims of 5 trillion in tax cuts and 2 trillion in more defense spending. And he hammered him on the 716 billion cuts in Medicare, I didn't think Obama came out of it looking very good. BUT - we got a couple more to go, and I would expect a much more combative president next time. Can't imagine how we're going to stay anywhere near close to the time limits in future debates.

We haven't had a budget since Obama has been in office. The notion that he has cut anything from a non existing budget is laughable. Any president with a backbone would get Harry Reid up to the White House and tell him to get his house in order and get a budget across his desk as the constitution spells out.

 

[Foxfyre]

Mitt's track record shows that he's closer to Obama than people are willing to admit. Sure, he got things done in Mass. By raising taxes and squashing freedoms.

Sorry, but I don't see it. Mitt took over a budget that was in serious trouble in Massachusetts and balanced it with a combination of cutting spending and by ending certain deductions and closiing corporate loopholes that had never been intended to exist, and did that without substantially pissing anybody off. And he subsequently promoted and signed legislation to reduce taxes in Massachusetts 17 times.

He did pass Romneycare through bipartisan support in the legislature and with the blessings of most of the people--contrast that with Obama getting no bipartisan support for Obamacare and passing it against the approval of most of the people. The final vote was 239 to 213 which is pathetic considering Obama had a super majority at the time. Only two members of the Massachusetts legislature, one Democrat and one Republican, voted against Romneycare.

When Mitt left office, Massachusetts was 22nd in per capital tax burden, boasted very low unemployment, one of the highest per capita incomes, at or near the best rated schools in the country, and, other than the mandatory part of Romneycare, I fail to see that he trampled on anybody's freedoms. And at the state level, it isn't a restriction of freedom.

The Founders deemed that freedom included the right for the states/local communities to form whatever sort of society they wished to have, and that included the right to do it poorly or wrong. The states are free to organize as they want and the federal government would not step in to stop people from having whatever social contract and society that they want.

Romney and Ryan understand the difference between states rights and federal powers., and Mitt was reassuring about that in the debate. I don't believe Obama does.

I can't imagine Mitt pushing through any major legislation without strong Congressional support and without the approval of the people.

bullshit. he did it by cutting local aid to the bone and increasing every fee he could find.

and i can assure you, he pissed off plenty of people.

not least because he spent the majority of his term running for president.

as for the horse puckey about states rights and federal powers, if that lets you sleep at night, knock yourself out.

Did Mitt leave Massachusetts in better shape when he left than when he first took office? I believe he did.

Will Mitt leave the USA in better shape when he finsihes his term of office as President? I believe he will.

Will Obama leave the USA in better shape when he finishes his term of office as President? I have seen absolutely no evidence that he will.

 

[kwc57]

It seemed obama was preoccupied with the interest...er...growing in his pants for his anniversary celebration than on the issues facing the nation. Sorry but there it is. And we can all be thankful there was a podium in front of him

Can you imagine how that anniversary celebration went when he showed just how impotent he is to millions of people?

 

[Zander]

I thought Romney won big, he made several points about the poor economic growth and UE numbers, and thoroughly debunked Obama's claims of 5 trillion in tax cuts and 2 trillion in more defense spending. And he hammered him on the 716 billion cuts in Medicare, I didn't think Obama came out of it looking very good. BUT - we got a couple more to go, and I would expect a much more combative president next time. Can't imagine how we're going to stay anywhere near close to the time limits in future debates.

We haven't had a budget since Obama has been in office. The notion that he has cut anything from a non existing budget is laughable. Any president with a backbone would get Harry Reid up to the White House and tell him to get his house in order and get a budget across his desk as the constitution spells out.

Yes, but that would require LEADERSHIP from Obama. He really doesn't know how to lead.

He does campaign well however, so I would not be surprised to see a lot of push back over the coming weeks. I imagine that Obama's TOTUS will be fully recharged with new "slogans and phrases" that he can spew to distract from his own record. He'll be pressed and polished with a shiny new smile (to replace the SMIRK from the debates) and a pile new promises - all for the middle class, of course!! And of course lots of "Blame" to go around. Blame Bush. Blame Republicans. Iraq, Iran, the Arab Spring, Kiosks, ATM's, Class Envy, the 1%, the Tea Party, Sarah Palin, anyone and everything....

 

[Foxfyre]

It seemed obama was preoccupied with the interest...er...growing in his pants for his anniversary celebration than on the issues facing the nation. Sorry but there it is. And we can all be thankful there was a podium in front of him

Can you imagine how that anniversary celebration went when he showed just how impotent he is to millions of people?

Yup. Not an empty chair tonight, but he sure came across as pretty much an empty suit.

 

[del]

Sorry, but I don't see it. Mitt took over a budget that was in serious trouble in Massachusetts and balanced it with a combination of cutting spending and by ending certain deductions and closiing corporate loopholes that had never been intended to exist, and did that without substantially pissing anybody off. And he subsequently promoted and signed legislation to reduce taxes in Massachusetts 17 times.

He did pass Romneycare through bipartisan support in the legislature and with the blessings of most of the people--contrast that with Obama getting no bipartisan support for Obamacare and passing it against the approval of most of the people. The final vote was 239 to 213 which is pathetic considering Obama had a super majority at the time. Only two members of the Massachusetts legislature, one Democrat and one Republican, voted against Romneycare.

When Mitt left office, Massachusetts was 22nd in per capital tax burden, boasted very low unemployment, one of the highest per capita incomes, at or near the best rated schools in the country, and, other than the mandatory part of Romneycare, I fail to see that he trampled on anybody's freedoms. And at the state level, it isn't a restriction of freedom.

The Founders deemed that freedom included the right for the states/local communities to form whatever sort of society they wished to have, and that included the right to do it poorly or wrong. The states are free to organize as they want and the federal government would not step in to stop people from having whatever social contract and society that they want.

Romney and Ryan understand the difference between states rights and federal powers., and Mitt was reassuring about that in the debate. I don't believe Obama does.

I can't imagine Mitt pushing through any major legislation without strong Congressional support and without the approval of the people.

bullshit. he did it by cutting local aid to the bone and increasing every fee he could find.

and i can assure you, he pissed off plenty of people.

not least because he spent the majority of his term running for president.

as for the horse puckey about states rights and federal powers, if that lets you sleep at night, knock yourself out.

Did Mitt leave Massachusetts in better shape when he left than when he first took office? I believe he did.

Will Mitt leave the USA in better shape when he finsihes his term of office as President? I believe he will.

Will Obama leave the USA in better shape when he finishes his term of office as President? I have seen absolutely no evidence that he will.

no, he didn't. any other governor would have balanced the budget, some might have done it in a way that didn't balance it on the backs of working people, some might not have, but they all would have balanced it.

you're free to believe whatever myths you choose.

 

[Foxfyre]

bullshit. he did it by cutting local aid to the bone and increasing every fee he could find.

and i can assure you, he pissed off plenty of people.

not least because he spent the majority of his term running for president.

as for the horse puckey about states rights and federal powers, if that lets you sleep at night, knock yourself out.

Did Mitt leave Massachusetts in better shape when he left than when he first took office? I believe he did.

Will Mitt leave the USA in better shape when he finsihes his term of office as President? I believe he will.

Will Obama leave the USA in better shape when he finishes his term of office as President? I have seen absolutely no evidence that he will.

no, he didn't. any other governor would have balanced the budget, some might have done it in a way that didn't balance it on the backs of working people, some might not have, but they all would have balanced it.

you're free to believe whatever myths you choose.

Thank you. Most charitable of you. Carry on.

 

[indanebioshock]

Obama is shit. He hate's Wisconsin. There is no change. What has he really done for the usa really Obama care nobama care. He wants major change where is it. He is just a speeker not a doer. Anericans think aout who u vote for. Now tell me what u think. All Wisconsin got was fixed roads. Whats that about ???

 

[Interpol]

Romney should try being honest about his tax plan.

IN what way is Romney being dishonest?

In the way that you lie bald-faced to people so that you don't have to explain your plan.

He proposes a massive tax cut of 20% across the board for everyone. His plan is to reduce the top marginal tax rate from 35% to 25%.

He plans on increasing the defense budget.

Mitt Romney was dishonest last night because he assumed that none of us have been following anything he has said or proposed over the last year or so. I watched him turn into a Democrat right there on my tv, promising to do everything Obama is doing, only bigger and better, while it costs nothing to nobody.

I'm sorry, but I want real answers and Mitt Romney was just making it all up as he went along last night.

 

[Foxfyre]

Romney should try being honest about his tax plan.

IN what way is Romney being dishonest?

In the way that you lie bald-faced to people so that you don't have to explain your plan.

He proposes a massive tax cut of 20% across the board for everyone. His plan is to reduce the top marginal tax rate from 35% to 25%.

He plans on increasing the defense budget.

Mitt Romney was dishonest last night because he assumed that none of us have been following anything he has said or proposed over the last year or so. I watched him turn into a Democrat right there on my tv, promising to do everything Obama is doing, only bigger and better, while it costs nothing to nobody.

I'm sorry, but I want real answers and Mitt Romney was just making it all up as he went along last night.

Actually, I wish Romney would give fewer specifics and focus on teaching principles. Certainly some of what he promises he will have a tough time delivering because he can't do it as President and he can't guarantee that Congress will help. And it may very well be that the solution he has in mind will prove to be unfeasible and he will need to, as Ross Perot once described it, get everybody under the hood and figure out the best way to fix it. That is what he has had to do in every circumstance that he was called in as the trouble shooter and problem solver. I don't want him boxed into too many corners that will make it harder to find the real solutions.

But I do believe his track record is solid that he will be motivated to find real solutions for real problems. He has the right ideas. And he has a really good track record of success.

Obama had no track record of success. And he hasn't developed one in the last four years.

Obama needs to be fired, and we could do much much worse than giving Mitt Romney a chance.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

bullshit. he did it by cutting local aid to the bone and increasing every fee he could find.

and i can assure you, he pissed off plenty of people.

not least because he spent the majority of his term running for president.

as for the horse puckey about states rights and federal powers, if that lets you sleep at night, knock yourself out.

Did Mitt leave Massachusetts in better shape when he left than when he first took office? I believe he did.

Will Mitt leave the USA in better shape when he finsihes his term of office as President? I believe he will.

Will Obama leave the USA in better shape when he finishes his term of office as President? I have seen absolutely no evidence that he will.

no, he didn't. any other governor would have balanced the budget, some might have done it in a way that didn't balance it on the backs of working people, some might not have, but they all would have balanced it.

you're free to believe whatever myths you choose.

We both live in MA but feel differently about the answers to those questions. Your response sounds a bit mythical to me.

My big issue with Romney is that Romneycare fines me if I choose not to buy insurance just like Obamacare. The reason Romneycare isn't as bad to me as Obamacare is because, well before Obamacare, I could move out of this state if I didn't like receiving a penalty in the form of taxes for not buying a private company's product. Now I can't.

Romney also brought gay marriage to massachussetts. He may have resisted it but he, in the end, compromised on it. Shows good leadership and a willingness to not be as partisan as the current President.

Under Romney Massachusetts’ Unemployment Rate Fell From 5.6% To 4.7% During The Romney Administration. Verify on BLS.GOV

Mitt Romney Entered Office Facing A $3 Billion Budget Shortfall And Left The State With A $2 Billion Rainy Day Fund: Governor Romney Closed A Nearly $3 Billion Shortfall Without Raising Taxes And Balanced Four Budgets http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/16/us/politics/16romney.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 <-- nytimes!

 

[Neotrotsky]

yep.
out of $3.5 plus trillion spent in fy 2009, $3.3 trillion goes to Bush, and 150 billion to 200 billion which includes the stimulus spent in fy 2009, goes towards obama

That's pure bullshit and has already been debunked.

FY 09 started Oct 1 08. Obama was sworn in Jan 20 09. His first fiscal bill was Mar 09. How was this debunked?

If the Democratic congress did their job properly.
They purposely held off on the budget that Bush should have signed....
They did so for the purposes of jacking up spending.

President Obama signed the final FY2009 spending bills on March 11, 2009,
FY 2009 was NOT signed off by Sept 2008.

Bush signed only three of the twelve appropriations bills for FY 2009.
So yeah, the argument that a President is not really "responsible" for the first year of spending
holds no water.... in this case.

 

[Foxfyre]

Did Mitt leave Massachusetts in better shape when he left than when he first took office? I believe he did.

Will Mitt leave the USA in better shape when he finsihes his term of office as President? I believe he will.

Will Obama leave the USA in better shape when he finishes his term of office as President? I have seen absolutely no evidence that he will.

no, he didn't. any other governor would have balanced the budget, some might have done it in a way that didn't balance it on the backs of working people, some might not have, but they all would have balanced it.

you're free to believe whatever myths you choose.

We both live in MA but feel differently about the answers to those questions. Your response sounds a bit mythical to me.

My big issue with Romney is that Romneycare fines me if I choose not to buy insurance just like Obamacare. The reason Romneycare isn't as bad to me as Obamacare is because, well before Obamacare, I could move out of this state if I didn't like receiving a penalty in the form of taxes for not buying a private company's product. Now I can't.

Romney also brought gay marriage to massachussetts. He may have resisted it but he, in the end, compromised on it. Shows good leadership and a willingness to not be as partisan as the current President.

Under Romney Massachusetts&#8217; Unemployment Rate Fell From 5.6% To 4.7% During The Romney Administration. Verify on BLS.GOV

Mitt Romney Entered Office Facing A $3 Billion Budget Shortfall And Left The State With A $2 Billion Rainy Day Fund: Governor Romney Closed A Nearly $3 Billion Shortfall Without Raising Taxes And Balanced Four Budgets http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/16/us/politics/16romney.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 <-- nytimes!

Romney also enjoyed a 50% or better approval rating in Mass, about as good as a Republican governor cold ever expect in a deep blue state, right up to the last months when he announced that he would not run for re-election. So he had to be doing something right.

Again, Romney is not everything I want in a President. But right now, the USA is in deep shit and unless we elect a President with his head on straight and ability to get things done, we could be screwed for a very long time. Romney is head and shoulders more able than Obama with those most necessary qualities we have to have.

 

[mudwhistle]

yep.
out of $3.5 plus trillion spent in fy 2009, $3.3 trillion goes to Bush, and 150 billion to 200 billion which includes the stimulus spent in fy 2009, goes towards obama

That's pure bullshit and has already been debunked.

no, it's not bull, and no it has not been debunk....

what some on the rightwing are claiming HAS BEEN DEBUNKED.....

Please read the lengthy article, it goes in to the most minute detail, and is as accurate as accurate can be....from every aspect of spending for the 2009 budget.

FactCheck.org : Obama’s Spending: ‘Inferno’ or Not?

Bush didn't have anything to do with the Stimulus or Obamacare......so nice try.

 

[namvet]

he was caught like a deer in the headlights. in addition to taking on Romney he had to explain to a national TV audience how big a fuck up he's been for 4 years. no way out.