Right to Work = Poverty and Welfare

Discussion in 'Politics' started by hazlnut, Dec 11, 2012.

  1. hazlnut
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    hazlnut Gold Member

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    Tea Farts don't get it. Right to work isn't about helping the worker....
     
  2. Avorysuds
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    Avorysuds Gold Member

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    List of U.S. states by African-American population - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    List of U.S. states by African-American population

    1 Mississippi 1,074,200 37.3
    2 Louisiana 1,452,396 31.98
    3 Georgia 2,950,435 30.02
    4 Maryland 1,700,298 29.44
    5 South Carolina 1,290,684 28.48
    6 Alabama 1,251,311 26.38
    7 North Carolina 2,048,628 21.60
    8 Delaware 191,814 20.95
    9 Virginia 1,551,399 19.91
    10 Tennessee 1,055,689 16.78


    Great, I guess this makes you a racist because the majority of the states have the highest black population...
     
  3. thereisnospoon
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    thereisnospoon Gold Member

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    NIce try..Hey dick nose, these states had poverty issues long before right to work laws were even thought of.
    Christ, you commie fuck union flag wavers will stop at nothing.
    So what si your goal? To get union membership up to 8% of all workers? Good luck with that.
    Unions are probably the single most prevalent issue regarding free trade agreements and how those agreements chased jobs out of the US.
     
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  4. The Professor
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    The Professor Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    While it is true that of the ten states with the highest poverty rates, eight are right-to-work (RTW), that means that two of them are union. The following list shows the 23 RTW states and their ranking relative to poverty rates (the lower the number, the lower the poverty rate):

    7 Utah
    8 Virginia
    10 Nebraska
    12 Idaho
    17 Nevada
    18 Wyoming
    19 Florida
    20 North Dakota
    22 Iowa
    26 South Dakota
    31 Kansas
    32 Indiana
    34 North Carolina
    37 Georgia
    40 Tennessee
    41 South Carolina
    42 Arizona
    44 Oklahoma
    45 Arkansas
    46 Texas
    47 Alabama
    49 Louisiana
    50 Mississippi

    This means that unionized states have the following numerical ratings:

    1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 9, 11, 13, 14, 15, 16, 21, 23, 24, 25, 27, 28, 29, 30, 33, 35, 36, 38, 39, 43, and 48

    Source: Poverty Rates By State:

    List of U.S. states by poverty rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    As can be easily seen, there are a number of RTW states above the average of 25th place, and there are a substantial number of unionized states below this same average. Thus, it is impossible to prove that a lack of unions is a direct result of, or even a contributing factor to, poverty levels. Of course, anyone who really wants to can manipulate the data to “find” the results they want. For example, Utah is in 7th place which means that there are only 6 union states with lower poverty levels but also 17 union states with higher poverty levels. Can residents of Utah use that statistic to discredit organized labor? I don't think so, though some might try.

    Besides, poverty lines calculations include those who are unemployed and on welfare. Unless you can prove that unions are responsible for job creation, the poverty rates prove nothing. My research shows that unions do not cause more jobs to be created; rather, they have historically caused a decline in the number of jobs (the steel industry for example). Further, even a state-by-state comparison of the WAGES of RTW and union states is more complicated than some people might think. In states with a higher cost of living and higher taxes, employers must pay higher wages to attract workers. The increased wages in these states cannot be attributed to unions, but to the factors aforementioned.

    The only legitimate and meaningful comparison is the difference in wages between union and non-union workers within the same occupation and same geographic area. But that is another issue for another thread.
     
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  5. Bfgrn
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    Bfgrn Gold Member

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    Human nature has not suddenly changed. The need for unions will never expire...

    'Right to Work' for Less

    Extremist groups, right-wing politicians and their corporate backers want to weaken the power of workers and their unions through so-called "right to work" laws. Their efforts are a partisan political ploy that undermines the basic rights of workers. By making unions weaker, these laws lower wages and living standards for all workers in the state. By many measures, the quality of life is worse in states with "right to work" laws. Wages are lower, poverty and lack of insurance are higher, education is weaker—even infant mortality and the likelihood of being killed on the job are higher.

    States with "Right to Work Laws Have:

    Lower Wages and Incomes

    • The average worker in states with "right to work" laws makes $1,540 a year less when all other factors are removed than workers in other states.1

    • Median household income in states with these laws is $6,437 less than in other states ($46,402 vs. $52,839).2

    • In states with "right to work" laws, 26.7 percent of jobs are in low-wage occupations, compared with 19.5 percent of jobs in other states.3

    Less Job-Based Health Insurance Coverage

    • People in states with "right to work" laws are more likely to be uninsured (16.8 percent, compared with 13.1 percent overall; among children, it’s 10.8 percent vs. 7.5 percent).4

    • They’re less likely to have job-based health insurance than people in other states (56.2 percent, compared with 60.1 percent).5

    • Only 50.7 percent of employers in states with these laws offer insurance coverage to their employees, compared with 55.2 percent in other states. That difference is even more significant among small employers (with fewer than 50 workers)—only 34.4 percent of them offer workers health insurance, compared with 41.7 percent of small employers in other states.6

    Higher Poverty and Infant Mortality Rates


    • Poverty rates are higher in states with "right to work" laws (15.3 percent overall and 21.5 percent for children), compared with poverty rates of 13.1 percent overall and 18.1 percent for children in states without these laws.7

    • The infant mortality rate is 15 percent higher in states with these laws.8

    Less Investment in Education

    • States with "right to work" laws spend $3,392 less per pupil on elementary and secondary education than other states, and students are less likely to be performing at their appropriate grade level in math and reading.9

    Higher Rates of Death on the Job

    • The rate of workplace deaths is 36 percent higher in states with these laws, according to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.10

    1 Economic Policy Institute.
    2 U.S. Census Bureau, Table H-8. Median Household Income by State.
    3 CFED, Asset and Opportunity Scorecard.
    4 Kaiser Family Foundation.
    5 Ibid.
    6 Ibid.
    7 Census Bureau, POV46: Poverty Status by State: 2010, related children under 18; Table 19. Percent of Persons in Poverty, by State: 2008, 2009 and 2010.
    8 Kaiser Family Foundation.
    9 National Education Association, Rankings & Estimates–Rankings of the States 2011 and Estimates of School Statistics 2012, December 2011; CFED, Asset & Opportunity Scorecard.
    10 AFL-CIO, Death on the Job: The Toll of Neglect, April 2012.


    "With all their faults, trade unions have done more for humanity than any other organization of men that ever existed"
    Clarence Darrow
     
  6. Old Rocks
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    Old Rocks Diamond Member

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    Interesting numbers. Right to Work states. Only 9 are above the middle, 25 rank. Union states, 15 are above the 25 line. And 7 of the top ten are union. But only 3 Right to Work states are in the top ten.

    Steel industry. Strange you should choose the steel industry for an example of 'union caused' job decline. You see, I am a millwright in a steel mill. And it is not unions that caused the job declines, but automation. In fact, working as a millwright in sawmills, construction, and steel mills, I have watched fewer and fewer people produce more and more as we move increasingly into an automated world. At the same time, the people remaining have not seen their wages go up to as they have produced more and more. The increased profit has all gone to the top.

    At some point, the people that are left, the millwrights, electricians, and automation people are going to realize the fact that the managers do not have a clue as to how to keep the production going, and we will see a reversal, with much stronger unions than at present.
     
  7. Seawytch
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    Seawytch Information isnt Advocacy

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  8. Avorysuds
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    Avorysuds Gold Member

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    Didn't France have riots in the streets when they tried make it so a buiness owner could fire useless employee's?

    Mass welfare, never ends well, thanks for pointing that out man.
     
  9. g5000
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    g5000 Diamond Member

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    Excellent work, Professor.

    This is a great job of dismantling the Single Cause Fallacy in the OP.

    .
     
  10. hazlnut
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    hazlnut Gold Member

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    In other words, no, france didn't do that.
     

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