Rigged Elections and Voter Fraud - how common is fraud? Not very.

[koshergrl]

PS...google CIRCULAR LOGIC.

 

[koshergrl]

[

"Put simply—and this is surprising to many people—there is no constitutional guarantee of the right to vote. Qualifications to vote in House and Senate elections are decided by each state, and the Supreme Court affirmed in Bush v. Gore that “[t]he individual citizen has no federal constitutional right to vote for electors for the President of the United States.”

The Missing Right: A Constitutional Right to Vote

Why are conservatives so happy to make that claim?

because commie dumbfucks pretend voter fraud is a right. It's not. Voting is a privilege granted to citizens only. Separate and different from inherent, god given rights that all humans are granted as a condition of their humanity.

 

[NYcarbineer]

its not a right, its a privilege determined by the state.

Oh really? So one state could determine that you have to be 21 and male to vote, all others excluded?

 

[OKTexas]

One of the problems here is that a voter can use just a utility bill to vote. And if there is a requirement to also have a picture ID, why not a government issued ID?

Because that is where people start to have difficulties and it starts to become unduly burdensome for particular groups of people.

Speeding fines that are set according offense effect the poor disproportionally as a percentage of income, are they discriminatory also? I still don't understand why you regressive keep fighting to allow an ineligible vote to cancel your valid vote by not demanding every safeguard possible.

Voting is a right, there is a requirement to not unduly make it burdensome for people to exercise that right. Driving a vehicle is not.

Owning a firearm is a right also, but we still verify a persons eligibility to do so. Would you favor the same lax standard you apply to voting to owning a firearm, should we get rid of those unduly burdensome regulations as well?

Your eligibility to vote is determined at the time of registration. To make the analogy work you'd have to show ID each time you discharged your weapon.

Wrong, each time you purchase a weapon, which you have to, I vote more often than I buy guns. Also states are prohibited for checking citizenship when a person registers, there are 3 states at this point that are allowed to check citizenship.

 

[Coyote]

[

"Put simply—and this is surprising to many people—there is no constitutional guarantee of the right to vote. Qualifications to vote in House and Senate elections are decided by each state, and the Supreme Court affirmed in Bush v. Gore that “[t]he individual citizen has no federal constitutional right to vote for electors for the President of the United States.”

The Missing Right: A Constitutional Right to Vote

Why are conservatives so happy to make that claim?

because commie dumbfucks pretend voter fraud is a right. It's not. Voting is a privilege granted to citizens only. Separate and different from inherent, god given rights that all humans are granted as a condition of their humanity.

Using your logic - owning guns isn't a "god given right" either but privilege.

 

[Coyote]

Voter ID would have no effect on ballot stuffing.

Clarify.

With voter ID, if there is one vote more counted than person voted, it could be proven that there is a fraud. One.

And in that case, I would void vote for whole precinct and do re-vote with additional oversight. Until it all match.

Ballot stuffing is when one person submits multiple ballots during a vote. ID wouldn't make a difference in that.

Voter ID would prevent exactly that.

By the way, ballot stuffing term is primarily used to describe election official stuffing the ballot box with the additional premarked ballots that favors one side.

And voter ID would prevent that how?

I said it earlier and its pretty simple, only people that show their voter ID can vote. Verification by swiping or pin, just like with a credit card. If number of ballot doesn't match the number of voter ID swipes, there is a fraud that needs to be investigated. Fool me once...

In that case, getting an ID would be further complicated - only ONE ID would be acceptable.

 

[OKTexas]

Ok, I'm Joe Smiths kid, I just take the card out of his wallet and vote for him.

So what works better?

Neither.

When you register, you receive a registration card that becomes you identification on election day. If you want want picture ID on election day, then have it photocopied onto the registration card when the person registers.

Really, my registration cards are mailed, I've never registered in person, in fact most people do it by mail. They just take the persons word that they are an eligible citizen. If an ID doesn't verify eligibility they're useless, so the best defense against fraud in verification of eligibility at the time of registration and having an ID that proves your the person registered when you vote.

The NVRA already has provisions for that. If the ID doesn't clear, then the voter does have to show ID at the polls.

The National Voter Registration Act Of 1993 (NVRA) | CRT | Department of Justice

Yeah, the States have to take the persons word they're eligible. The EAC has only provided 3 exceptions in Jan 2016.

 

[OKTexas]

Yep, I know exactly what it means, I can also recognize bullshit when I see it, and you're full of it.

If you knew what it meant, you would not have made the comment you did.

Say you have a bowl of red & green marbles where it is 20% red.

If I take some out & put them in a different bowl & this bowl had 40% red marbles, then it would be disproportionately Red even though there were more green marbles in both bowls.

Suppose that there are 40% of the people at are Republican & 40% Democrat & 20% other. If we stopped a million people at random from voting, then the resulting loss in votes would coincide with the expected.

If you stop a million poor people from voting, you stop a sample that is disproportionately poor & thereby disproportionately Democrat voters.

Yep, you've lost your marbles.

You're claiming a subset (minoritites) of a subset (the poor), are effected more than the subset(the poor) as a whole. That sir is bullshit.

I understand how difficult this is for you residents of Whiner World.

All poor would be affected the same. But by restricting the poor, you restrict more Democrat voters than Republican voters. Do ya get it yet???????

Your party is perfectly willing to deny Republicans from voting as long as they say to more Democrats that they can't vote.

It ios not thaty diffucult of a concept. Either you people are too dense to get it or you like cheating to win.

You might have a point IF there were more minority poor, which there is NOT when raw totals are considered.

Which number would be larger, 18% of 70% of the population, or 26% of 20% of the population?

My God you are freaking stupid.

There are is a higher percentage of minorities in a group of poor people than there are in the general population.

1) The reason Republicans want to exclude poor people his because poor people are higher percent democrat voter than the general population.

2) Poor people are a higher percentage Democrat voter because there is a higher percentage of minorities & minorities tend to vote Democrat.

You act as though all white people vote Republican.

See you keep trying to change the vernacular, I said raw numbers, there are more poor whites than minorities, period. Hence the law affects whites more. Fuck your percentages.

Also why do you think all poor people vote commiecrat?

 

[koshergrl]

[

"Put simply—and this is surprising to many people—there is no constitutional guarantee of the right to vote. Qualifications to vote in House and Senate elections are decided by each state, and the Supreme Court affirmed in Bush v. Gore that “[t]he individual citizen has no federal constitutional right to vote for electors for the President of the United States.”

The Missing Right: A Constitutional Right to Vote

Why are conservatives so happy to make that claim?

because commie dumbfucks pretend voter fraud is a right. It's not. Voting is a privilege granted to citizens only. Separate and different from inherent, god given rights that all humans are granted as a condition of their humanity.

Using your logic - owning guns isn't a "god given right" either but privilege.

Wrong. It is a god-given right. Our constitution protects it specifically as such.

I know this is hard for you. These are the terms and conditions of free people. You wouldn't understand.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

its not a right, its a privilege determined by the state.

Wrong again, as usual.

The voting is in fact a right, fundamental and inviolate:

‘In Yick Wo v. Hopkins, 118 U.S. 356, 370 , the Court referred to "the political franchise of voting" as a "fundamental political right, because preservative of all rights." Recently in Reynolds v. Sims, 377 U.S. 533, 561 -562, we said, "Undoubtedly, the right of suffrage is a fundamental matter in a free and democratic society. Especially since the right to exercise the franchise in a free and unimpaired manner is preservative of other basic civil and political rights, any alleged infringement of the right of citizens to vote must be carefully and meticulously scrutinized.”’ (Harper v. Virginia Board of Elections (1966)

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

[

"Put simply—and this is surprising to many people—there is no constitutional guarantee of the right to vote. Qualifications to vote in House and Senate elections are decided by each state, and the Supreme Court affirmed in Bush v. Gore that “[t]he individual citizen has no federal constitutional right to vote for electors for the President of the United States.”

The Missing Right: A Constitutional Right to Vote

Why are conservatives so happy to make that claim?

because commie dumbfucks pretend voter fraud is a right. It's not. Voting is a privilege granted to citizens only. Separate and different from inherent, god given rights that all humans are granted as a condition of their humanity.

Using your logic - owning guns isn't a "god given right" either but privilege.

Wrong. It is a god-given right. Our constitution protects it specifically as such.

I know this is hard for you. These are the terms and conditions of free people. You wouldn't understand.

Again, at least you're consistent at being wrong.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Voting is not a right.


The missing right
...
When the Constitution was enacted, it did not include a right to vote for the simple reason that the Founders didn't think most people should vote. Voting laws, at the time, mostly favored white, male property-holders, and the rules varied sharply from state to state. But in the first half of the nineteenth century, the idea of popular democracy took root across the land. Property qualifications were universally abolished and the franchise became the key marker of white male political equality. Subsequent activists sought to further expand the franchise by barring discrimination on the basis of race (the 15th Amendment) and gender (the 19th Amendment) — establishing the norm that all citizens should have the right to vote.

But this norm is just a norm. There is no actual constitutional provision stating that all citizens have the right to vote, only that voting rights cannot be dispensed on the basis of race or gender discrimination. A law requiring you to cut your hair short before voting, or to dye it blue, or to say "pretty please let me vote," all might pass muster. And so might a voter ID requirement.

The legality of these kinds of laws hinge on whether they violate the Constitution's protections against race and gender discrimination, not on whether they prevent citizens from voting. As Harvard Law professor Lani Guinier has written, this "leaves one of the fundamental elements of democratic citizenship tethered to the whims of local officials."...

Americans don't have a constitutional right to vote — it's time for that to change

And another rightwing nitwit chimes in to exhibit her ignorance.

 

[Coyote]

[

"Put simply—and this is surprising to many people—there is no constitutional guarantee of the right to vote. Qualifications to vote in House and Senate elections are decided by each state, and the Supreme Court affirmed in Bush v. Gore that “[t]he individual citizen has no federal constitutional right to vote for electors for the President of the United States.”

The Missing Right: A Constitutional Right to Vote

Why are conservatives so happy to make that claim?

because commie dumbfucks pretend voter fraud is a right. It's not. Voting is a privilege granted to citizens only. Separate and different from inherent, god given rights that all humans are granted as a condition of their humanity.

Using your logic - owning guns isn't a "god given right" either but privilege.

Wrong. It is a god-given right. Our constitution protects it specifically as such.

I know this is hard for you. These are the terms and conditions of free people. You wouldn't understand.

You clearly don't.

The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged . . .

 

[NYcarbineer]

[

"Put simply—and this is surprising to many people—there is no constitutional guarantee of the right to vote. Qualifications to vote in House and Senate elections are decided by each state, and the Supreme Court affirmed in Bush v. Gore that “[t]he individual citizen has no federal constitutional right to vote for electors for the President of the United States.”

The Missing Right: A Constitutional Right to Vote

Why are conservatives so happy to make that claim?

because commie dumbfucks pretend voter fraud is a right. It's not. Voting is a privilege granted to citizens only. Separate and different from inherent, god given rights that all humans are granted as a condition of their humanity.

Using your logic - owning guns isn't a "god given right" either but privilege.

Wrong. It is a god-given right. Our constitution protects it specifically as such.

I know this is hard for you. These are the terms and conditions of free people. You wouldn't understand.

So abortion is a God given right protected by the constitution. As is marriage, as is same sex marriage.

 

[koshergrl]

[

"Put simply—and this is surprising to many people—there is no constitutional guarantee of the right to vote. Qualifications to vote in House and Senate elections are decided by each state, and the Supreme Court affirmed in Bush v. Gore that “[t]he individual citizen has no federal constitutional right to vote for electors for the President of the United States.”

The Missing Right: A Constitutional Right to Vote

Why are conservatives so happy to make that claim?

because commie dumbfucks pretend voter fraud is a right. It's not. Voting is a privilege granted to citizens only. Separate and different from inherent, god given rights that all humans are granted as a condition of their humanity.

Using your logic - owning guns isn't a "god given right" either but privilege.

Wrong. It is a god-given right. Our constitution protects it specifically as such.

I know this is hard for you. These are the terms and conditions of free people. You wouldn't understand.

You clearly don't.

The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged . . .

Voting isn't a right, ding dong. Our government does not "create" rights. It protects some God given rights, of which voting is not one.

Meanwhile...

BEWARE THE USEFUL IDIOTS – The Burning Platform

 

[Seawytch]

Because that is where people start to have difficulties and it starts to become unduly burdensome for particular groups of people.

Speeding fines that are set according offense effect the poor disproportionally as a percentage of income, are they discriminatory also? I still don't understand why you regressive keep fighting to allow an ineligible vote to cancel your valid vote by not demanding every safeguard possible.

Voting is a right, there is a requirement to not unduly make it burdensome for people to exercise that right. Driving a vehicle is not.

Owning a firearm is a right also, but we still verify a persons eligibility to do so. Would you favor the same lax standard you apply to voting to owning a firearm, should we get rid of those unduly burdensome regulations as well?

Your eligibility to vote is determined at the time of registration. To make the analogy work you'd have to show ID each time you discharged your weapon.

Wrong, each time you purchase a weapon, which you have to, I vote more often than I buy guns. Also states are prohibited for checking citizenship when a person registers, there are 3 states at this point that are allowed to check citizenship.

You provide ID when you register to vote just like you provide ID each time you buy a weapon. You want people to show ID each time they vote too which would be like providing ID each time you discharge your weapon.

Again, for me at least, it's not the ID that is the issue, it's the narrow and restrictive nature of the ID required.

Oh, and...

Court Blocks Proof-Of-Citizenship Requirement For Voters In 3 States

 

[Seawytch]

So what works better?

Neither.

When you register, you receive a registration card that becomes you identification on election day. If you want want picture ID on election day, then have it photocopied onto the registration card when the person registers.

Really, my registration cards are mailed, I've never registered in person, in fact most people do it by mail. They just take the persons word that they are an eligible citizen. If an ID doesn't verify eligibility they're useless, so the best defense against fraud in verification of eligibility at the time of registration and having an ID that proves your the person registered when you vote.

The NVRA already has provisions for that. If the ID doesn't clear, then the voter does have to show ID at the polls.

The National Voter Registration Act Of 1993 (NVRA) | CRT | Department of Justice

Yeah, the States have to take the persons word they're eligible. The EAC has only provided 3 exceptions in Jan 2016.

In what regard, Charlie? I just said that they provide ID and that ID has to clear through a check of SS and/or DMV. Here in CA a voter registers, provides their SSN or DL. If they don't provide it or a check of their name, SSN, DL and DOB doesn't clear, they are flagged to show ID the first time they vote in a Federal Election (this is all IAW the NVRA). CA allows you to show one of 30 forms of ID, not a just a state or Federal government issued photo ID.

 

[Seawytch]

Why are conservatives so happy to make that claim?

because commie dumbfucks pretend voter fraud is a right. It's not. Voting is a privilege granted to citizens only. Separate and different from inherent, god given rights that all humans are granted as a condition of their humanity.

Using your logic - owning guns isn't a "god given right" either but privilege.

Wrong. It is a god-given right. Our constitution protects it specifically as such.

I know this is hard for you. These are the terms and conditions of free people. You wouldn't understand.

You clearly don't.

The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged . . .

Voting isn't a right, ding dong. Our government does not "create" rights. It protects some God given rights, of which voting is not one.

Do these words:

"The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged"

mean something different when passed through your filter? What do they mean to you?

 

[Seawytch]

Why are conservatives so happy to make that claim?

because commie dumbfucks pretend voter fraud is a right. It's not. Voting is a privilege granted to citizens only. Separate and different from inherent, god given rights that all humans are granted as a condition of their humanity.

Using your logic - owning guns isn't a "god given right" either but privilege.

Wrong. It is a god-given right. Our constitution protects it specifically as such.

I know this is hard for you. These are the terms and conditions of free people. You wouldn't understand.

You clearly don't.

The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged . . .

Voting isn't a right, ding dong. Our government does not "create" rights. It protects some God given rights, of which voting is not one.

Do these words:

"The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged"

mean something different when passed through your filter? What do they mean to you?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Why are conservatives so happy to make that claim?

because commie dumbfucks pretend voter fraud is a right. It's not. Voting is a privilege granted to citizens only. Separate and different from inherent, god given rights that all humans are granted as a condition of their humanity.

Using your logic - owning guns isn't a "god given right" either but privilege.

Wrong. It is a god-given right. Our constitution protects it specifically as such.

I know this is hard for you. These are the terms and conditions of free people. You wouldn't understand.

You clearly don't.

The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged . . .

Voting isn't a right, ding dong. Our government does not "create" rights. It protects some God given rights, of which voting is not one.

Meanwhile...

BEWARE THE USEFUL IDIOTS – The Burning Platform

Voting is a right. You are an idiot.