Resigning my defense of Islam

[Kalam]

Modern nation-states don't speak for Islam.

A Muslim can't be a homosexual because believing that the two sexes are complementary (and therefore exclusively sexually compatible) is a corollary of belief in Islam. Does homosexuality have legal consequences in Buddhism? Your behavior is regulated by the tenets of your own religion unless your crime involves the Muslim community. If we consider homosexuality a form of zina (which also includes adultery and heterosexual fornication,) a person can't be subjected to the hadd punishment unless there were four witnesses to the act of penetration or they bear witness against themselves four times. Hence no Muslim was executed for this crime during Muhammad's (SAWS) life who didn't choose to confess in this manner.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Then why did all the mostly christian nations vote against killing gays?

You wouldn't lie about anothers faith would you?

That's clever. No one said that mostly Christian nations vote against killing gays or infidels. Who's the liar?

"If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst." (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

I was speaking of the UN vote.

I cane nothing for vast parts of the bible, even less the quran.

When was the last time you heard of christians killing infedels?
When was the last time muslims killed infedels? Last week?

Depends how you look at it, our christian army is responsible for killing a lot more "infidels" than a muslim army is responsible for killing our "infidels."

It just depends on how the culture justifies or rationalizes killing. We rationalize it as a military act so the hundreds of thousands of civilians we kill is inconsequential, they rationalize it as their god given duty when they kill so it's inconsequential. Both are disgusting and immoral to me.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Glad to see you have a better understanding of that religion.

Killing is a little to conservative for you. that is good to know.

The evil is merging the Islamic religion with government and law. I still don't feel the religion itself is fundamentally flawed.

If we look at the Old Testament, and if for some reason, Christian Dominionists were to make the Bible the law of the land in America, the possibility exists for the same kind of excesses to occur.

"The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

Any country anywhere practice that?

Don't bother, the answers no, and not since, geez, I don't know when they stopped killing people for working Sunday, since I never heard of it being done.

The point is if they did the result would be the same.

Follow the Bible or the Quran and gays and non-believers must be wiped off the face of the earth, all of them, and more.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Then why did all the mostly christian nations vote against killing gays?

You wouldn't lie about anothers faith would you?

That's clever. No one said that mostly Christian nations vote against killing gays or infidels. Who's the liar?

"If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst." (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

I was speaking of the UN vote.

I care nothing for vast parts of the bible, even less the quran.

When was the last time you heard of christians killing infedels?
When was the last time muslims killed infedels? Last week?

I understand your point. Christians are not currently killing infidels. There is a Christian Dominionist movement that wants to make the Bible the law of the land and make the US a Christian nation with their kind of Christianity in place.

 

[Sky Dancer]

That's clever. No one said that mostly Christian nations vote against killing gays or infidels. Who's the liar?

"If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst." (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

I was speaking of the UN vote.

I cane nothing for vast parts of the bible, even less the quran.

When was the last time you heard of christians killing infedels?
When was the last time muslims killed infedels? Last week?

Depends how you look at it, our christian army is responsible for killing a lot more "infidels" than a muslim army is responsible for killing our "infidels."

It just depends on how the culture justifies or rationalizes killing. We rationalize it as a military act so the hundreds of thousands of civilians we kill is inconsequential, they rationalize it as their god given duty when they kill so it's inconsequential. Both are disgusting and immoral to me.

There is a Christian movement within the military.
http://www.jweekly.com/article/full...war-with-christian-extremism-in-the-military/

 

[GHook93]

After investigating which of the 79 countries in the United Nations voted for the right to execute gays without cause, and seeing most of them are Muslim majority nations, I will no longer defend Islam as peaceful.

I do support the right of every American to practice their religion freely, including Muslims.

I've had good experiences with American Sufis, and enjoy Sufi poetry, but I have no problem admitting my stubbornness of clinging to these has blinded me to the dangers of Islamic law.

I was wrong. That doesn't mean I hate Muslims or feel as though there is nothing of value in Islamic spiritual practices.

Bull shit your a dumb ass leftist! You will support them without merit because it's in the leftist blood to support Islam (you are deathly afraid of them, so your illogical thinking is, that if I support the Islamist and hate on the Jews they will leave us alone), but you will reup your membership to the Leftist Hate the Jews fan club!

 

[Dr.Drock]

After investigating which of the 79 countries in the United Nations voted for the right to execute gays without cause, and seeing most of them are Muslim majority nations, I will no longer defend Islam as peaceful.

I do support the right of every American to practice their religion freely, including Muslims.

I've had good experiences with American Sufis, and enjoy Sufi poetry, but I have no problem admitting my stubbornness of clinging to these has blinded me to the dangers of Islamic law.

I was wrong. That doesn't mean I hate Muslims or feel as though there is nothing of value in Islamic spiritual practices.

Bull shit your a dumb ass leftist! You will support them without merit because it's in the leftist blood to support Islam (you are deathly afraid of them, so your illogical thinking is, that if I support the Islamist and hate on the Jews they will leave us alone), but you will reup your membership to the Leftist Hate the Jews fan club!

Your a dumbass, one of my favorite message board lines.

 

[martybegan]

Putting any religion in government and going by the texts is going to bring about evil.

If we went by Biblical law we too would be in favor of executing gays, and anyone who wasn't christian (at a minimum).

Combine religion and lack of money into a culture and this is what you get more often than not.

Where the hell in the bible does it talk about executing gays and non christians?

Did I miss a "book of pyschotic bastard" somehwere in my copy of the new testament?

You missed it in the Old testament, it's all over that mess.

The Old Testament is where most christians point to in order to defend their homophobia, Jesus certainly never said anything bad about people being gay but christians will use the old testament as an excuse to keep gays from marrying, call them sinners, etc etc.

I agree with the old testament, but only certain christian groups really follow them word for word.

In any case even when just using the OT as a reference, homosexuality IS a sin, but the NT goes with the whole hate the sin and not the sinner vibe.

There is a large step between saying being gay is a sin, and opposing legally the allowing of marriages by gays and calling for thier execution as seen in some Islamic cultures. To borrow a line from a comdedian, one is like homophobia 0.5 and the other is homophobia 200.

 

[Kalam]

Bull shit your a dumb ass leftist!

You'll earn the right to insult others' intelligence when you master the basics of your own language.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Modern nation-states don't speak for Islam.

A Muslim can't be a homosexual because believing that the two sexes are complementary (and therefore exclusively sexually compatible) is a corollary of belief in Islam. Does homosexuality have legal consequences in Buddhism? Your behavior is regulated by the tenets of your own religion unless your crime involves the Muslim community. If we consider homosexuality a form of zina (which also includes adultery and heterosexual fornication,) a person can't be subjected to the hadd punishment unless there were four witnesses to the act of penetration or they bear witness against themselves four times. Hence no Muslim was executed for this crime during Muhammad's (SAWS) life who didn't choose to confess in this manner.

Homosexuality does not have legal consequences in Buddhism. Homosexuals are not singled out. We do not have punishment for sexual misconduct. We have the concept of karma. We follow the laws of our land. Not killing is the First and most important precept in Buddhism.

Here is the precept on sexual misconduct:

"Aware of the suffering caused by sexual misconduct, I undertake to cultivate responsibility and learn ways to protect the safety and integrity of individuals, couples, families, and society. I am determined not to engage in sexual relations without love and a long- term commitment. To preserve the happiness of myself and others, I am determined to respect my commitments and the commitments of others. I will do everything in my power to protect children from sexual abuse and to prevent couples and families from being broken by sexual misconduct."

 

[Kalam]

I agree with the old testament, but only certain christian groups really follow them word for word.

In any case even when just using the OT as a reference, homosexuality IS a sin, but the NT goes with the whole hate the sin and not the sinner vibe.

Isn't this called "cafeteria Christianity"?

 

[Two Thumbs]

That's clever. No one said that mostly Christian nations vote against killing gays or infidels. Who's the liar?

"If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst." (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

I was speaking of the UN vote.

I cane nothing for vast parts of the bible, even less the quran.

When was the last time you heard of christians killing infedels?
When was the last time muslims killed infedels? Last week?

Depends how you look at it, our christian army is responsible for killing a lot more "infidels" than a muslim army is responsible for killing our "infidels."

It just depends on how the culture justifies or rationalizes killing. We rationalize it as a military act so the hundreds of thousands of civilians we kill is inconsequential, they rationalize it as their god given duty when they kill so it's inconsequential. Both are disgusting and immoral to me.

We don't have a christian army.

This is not a holy war for us.

You do not know how to rationalize.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Where the hell in the bible does it talk about executing gays and non christians?

Did I miss a "book of pyschotic bastard" somehwere in my copy of the new testament?

You missed it in the Old testament, it's all over that mess.

The Old Testament is where most christians point to in order to defend their homophobia, Jesus certainly never said anything bad about people being gay but christians will use the old testament as an excuse to keep gays from marrying, call them sinners, etc etc.

I agree with the old testament, but only certain christian groups really follow them word for word.

In any case even when just using the OT as a reference, homosexuality IS a sin, but the NT goes with the whole hate the sin and not the sinner vibe.

There is a large step between saying being gay is a sin, and opposing legally the allowing of marriages by gays and calling for thier execution as seen in some Islamic cultures. To borrow a line from a comdedian, one is like homophobia 0.5 and the other is homophobia 200.

A minority of Christians in America, such as the ones in the Christian megachurch in Las Vegas, have financially supported the execute gays legislation in Uganda.

They would support it here too.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I was speaking of the UN vote.

I cane nothing for vast parts of the bible, even less the quran.

When was the last time you heard of christians killing infedels?
When was the last time muslims killed infedels? Last week?

Depends how you look at it, our christian army is responsible for killing a lot more "infidels" than a muslim army is responsible for killing our "infidels."

It just depends on how the culture justifies or rationalizes killing. We rationalize it as a military act so the hundreds of thousands of civilians we kill is inconsequential, they rationalize it as their god given duty when they kill so it's inconsequential. Both are disgusting and immoral to me.

We don't have a christian army.

This is not a holy war for us.

You do not know how to rationalize.

Christians haven't created militia in the US.

There is an extremist movement in the military that does see the war in Iraq and Afghanistan as a holy war.

How about the Jesus rifles? Rifle scopes used in and Iraq were embossed with New Testament verses.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/jesus-rifles/story?id=9618791

 

[Dr.Drock]

I was speaking of the UN vote.

I cane nothing for vast parts of the bible, even less the quran.

When was the last time you heard of christians killing infedels?
When was the last time muslims killed infedels? Last week?

Depends how you look at it, our christian army is responsible for killing a lot more "infidels" than a muslim army is responsible for killing our "infidels."

It just depends on how the culture justifies or rationalizes killing. We rationalize it as a military act so the hundreds of thousands of civilians we kill is inconsequential, they rationalize it as their god given duty when they kill so it's inconsequential. Both are disgusting and immoral to me.

We don't have a christian army.

This is not a holy war for us.

You do not know how to rationalize.

We have an army full of christians, they have a group we call terrorists they call an army that's full of muslims. I'm not overly interested in the word games or adjectives, just the dynamic.

We rationalize killing civilians because the leader of the country violated UN agreements, they rationalize killing civilians becase our leaders violate the laws of their religion.

It's all disgusting, they're both wrong.

 

[Two Thumbs]

That's clever. No one said that mostly Christian nations vote against killing gays or infidels. Who's the liar?

"If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst." (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

I was speaking of the UN vote.

I care nothing for vast parts of the bible, even less the quran.

When was the last time you heard of christians killing infedels?
When was the last time muslims killed infedels? Last week?

I understand your point. Christians are not currently killing infidels. There is a Christian Dominionist movement that wants to make the Bible the law of the land and make the US a Christian nation with their kind of Christianity in place.

Beyond "The 700 Club" I don't know of any such movement.

How small is this minority that it's never made the news?

Now consider this. The same kind of thinking is the majority in islam. else, it wouldn't be law and thier nations wouldn't support death for gays. also, keep in mind, when it's death by stoneing, they are not kidding.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Depends how you look at it, our christian army is responsible for killing a lot more "infidels" than a muslim army is responsible for killing our "infidels."

It just depends on how the culture justifies or rationalizes killing. We rationalize it as a military act so the hundreds of thousands of civilians we kill is inconsequential, they rationalize it as their god given duty when they kill so it's inconsequential. Both are disgusting and immoral to me.

We don't have a christian army.

This is not a holy war for us.

You do not know how to rationalize.

Christians haven't created militia in the US. There is an extremist movement in the military that does see the war in Iraq and Afghanistan as a holy war.

How about the Jesus rifles? Rifle scopes used in Afghanistan and Iraq were embossed with New Testament verses.

No More Jesus Rifles - ABC News
Trijicon, the gunsight maker that has imprinted Bible verse numbers on its scopes, has announced that it will no longer imprint the verses on the sides of scopes intended ...

abcnews.go.com/Blotter/jesus-rifles/story?id=9618791


U.S. Military Weapons Inscribed With Secret 'Jesus' Bible Codes
Jan 18, 2010 · Coded references to New Testament Bible passages about Jesus Christ are inscribed on high-powered rifle sights provided to the U.S. military by a Michigan ...

abcnews.go.com/Blotter/us-military-weapons-inscribed-secret-jesus-bible-codes/story?id=...

The military had nothing to do with it.

 

[Kalam]

Homosexuality does not have legal consequences in Buddhism. Homosexuals are not singled out. We do not have punishment for sexual misconduct. We have the concept of karma. We follow the laws of our land.

Then there would be no Islamic basis for punishing you.

 

[martybegan]

I agree with the old testament, but only certain christian groups really follow them word for word.

In any case even when just using the OT as a reference, homosexuality IS a sin, but the NT goes with the whole hate the sin and not the sinner vibe.

Isn't this called "cafeteria Christianity"?

By that logic not keeping kosher would be cafeteria Christianity.

 

[Sky Dancer]

On his Fox News show, Glenn Beck gave a platform to retired Lt. Gen. William G. "Jerry" Boykin to claim that an Islamic republic would emerge in Egypt. Boykin has been censured by the Pentagon for comparing U.S. counterterrorism efforts to a holy war.

General Boykin has likened the battle against Islamic militants to a Christian struggle against Satan and said at evangelical gatherings that a militant Muslim militia leader in Somalia worshiped an ''idol'' and not ''a real God.'' [The New York Times, 10/20/03]

Beck Hosts William Boykin, Who Likened War On Terrorism To Holy War | Media Matters for America