Resigning my defense of Islam

[Kalam]

I agree with the old testament, but only certain christian groups really follow them word for word.

In any case even when just using the OT as a reference, homosexuality IS a sin, but the NT goes with the whole hate the sin and not the sinner vibe.

Isn't this called "cafeteria Christianity"?

By that logic not keeping kosher would be cafeteria Christianity.

That issue is addressed directly by the NT.

Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. - Matt. 15:11​

Is there a similar statement about sexuality?

 

[Mini 14]

Cliff Notes for thread so far:

Muslims are intolerant of gays, and have killed a lot of people.
Buddhists are intolerant of Muslims, supportive of gays, and highly suspicious of Christians.
Christians are defensive, but seem to have killed a lot of people.
US Soldiers should not have religious views, and if they do, should certainly NEVER, under ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, express them.

We really need a Jew and a Mormon to weigh in, at which point I will update again.

Carry on, please

 

[Two Thumbs]

On his Fox News show, Glenn Beck gave a platform to retired Lt. Gen. William G. "Jerry" Boykin to claim that an Islamic republic would emerge in Egypt. Boykin has been censured by the Pentagon for comparing U.S. counterterrorism efforts to a holy war.

General Boykin has likened the battle against Islamic militants to a Christian struggle against Satan and said at evangelical gatherings that a militant Muslim militia leader in Somalia worshiped an ''idol'' and not ''a real God.'' [The New York Times, 10/20/03]

Beck Hosts William Boykin, Who Likened War On Terrorism To Holy War | Media Matters for America

buddist monks are some of the most feared men on the planet for thier ability to kill with thier bare hands.

see, I can pick out small useless points myself.

 

[syrenn]

After investigating which of the 79 countries in the United Nations voted for the right to execute gays without cause, and seeing most of them are Muslim majority nations, I will no longer defend Islam as peaceful.

I do support the right of every American to practice their religion freely, including Muslims.

I've had good experiences with American Sufis, and enjoy Sufi poetry, but I have no problem admitting my stubbornness of clinging to these has blinded me to the dangers of Islamic law.

I was wrong. That doesn't mean I hate Muslims or feel as though there is nothing of value in Islamic spiritual practices.

Good to see that you are opening your eyes about the "religion of peace".

Now think gay, and then ass the added crime of being a woman into that mix.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Cliff Notes for thread so far:

Muslims are intolerant of gays, and have killed a lot of people.
Buddhists are intolerant of Muslims, supportive of gays, and highly suspicious of Christians.
Christians are defensive, but seem to have killed a lot of people.
US Soldiers should not have religious views, and if they do, should certainly NEVER, under ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, express them.

We really need a Jew and a Mormon to weigh in, at which point I will update again.

Carry on, please

That is not a true statement. Buddhists are tolerant of Muslims. Shariah Law is antithetical to Buddhist teachings.

There is a small minority of Christian fundamentalists, Dominionists, who seek to make the US a Christian nation with the Bible the law of the land.

US soldiers are entitled to religious views. Some see the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq as holy wars and put Bible quotes on their rifle scopes.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Cliff Notes for thread so far:

Muslims are intolerant of gays, and have killed a lot of people.
Buddhists are intolerant of Muslims, supportive of gays, and highly suspicious of Christians.
Christians are defensive, but seem to have killed a lot of people.
US Soldiers should not have religious views, and if they do, should certainly NEVER, under ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, express them.

We really need a Jew and a Mormon to weigh in, at which point I will update again.

Carry on, please

I will assume that you are calling me a christian.

Just to make a point I'm none of the above.

It just pisses me off when some christian hater posts bs as fact, then goes to it's athiest website to pull quotes from a book it's never read.

In fairness to Sky, she went through something and is still working on forgiveness. (imo, it seems)

 

[Two Thumbs]

Cliff Notes for thread so far:

Muslims are intolerant of gays, and have killed a lot of people.
Buddhists are intolerant of Muslims, supportive of gays, and highly suspicious of Christians.
Christians are defensive, but seem to have killed a lot of people.
US Soldiers should not have religious views, and if they do, should certainly NEVER, under ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, express them.

We really need a Jew and a Mormon to weigh in, at which point I will update again.

Carry on, please

That is not a true statement. Buddhists are tolerant of Muslims. Shariah Law is antithetical to Buddhist teachings.

There is a small minority of Christian fundamentalists, Dominionists, who seek to make the US a Christian nation with the Bible the law of the land.

US soldiers are entitled to religious views. Some see the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq as holy wars and put Bible quotes on their rifle scopes.

not true. They, the manufactor, puts the reference numbers. like John 3:16.

Funney how muslims use the same scopes but don't complain.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Cliff Notes for thread so far:

Muslims are intolerant of gays, and have killed a lot of people.
Buddhists are intolerant of Muslims, supportive of gays, and highly suspicious of Christians.
Christians are defensive, but seem to have killed a lot of people.
US Soldiers should not have religious views, and if they do, should certainly NEVER, under ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, express them.

We really need a Jew and a Mormon to weigh in, at which point I will update again.

Carry on, please

Damn, I'd fire your writer. I haven't even seen a tiny shred of any poster saying soldiers shouldn't express their religious views.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Cliff Notes for thread so far:

Muslims are intolerant of gays, and have killed a lot of people.
Buddhists are intolerant of Muslims, supportive of gays, and highly suspicious of Christians.
Christians are defensive, but seem to have killed a lot of people.
US Soldiers should not have religious views, and if they do, should certainly NEVER, under ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, express them.

We really need a Jew and a Mormon to weigh in, at which point I will update again.

Carry on, please

That is not a true statement. Buddhists are tolerant of Muslims. Shariah Law is antithetical to Buddhist teachings.

There is a small minority of Christian fundamentalists, Dominionists, who seek to make the US a Christian nation with the Bible the law of the land.

US soldiers are entitled to religious views. Some see the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq as holy wars and put Bible quotes on their rifle scopes.

not true. They, the manufactor, puts the reference numbers. like John 3:16.

Funney how muslims use the same scopes but don't complain.

I'm sorry, but bible quotes on rifle scopes seem unchristian like to me.

Officials with Michigan-based optics maker Trijicon Inc. said Monday in news reports that their optics have been inscribed with references to Bible verses for years. In a statement released Tuesday, the company explained further.

“For two generations our Michigan-based family owned business has been working to provide America’s military men and women with high quality, innovative sighting systems for the weapons they use,” it said. “Our effort is simple and straightforward: to help our servicemen and women win the war on terror and come home safe to their families.

“As part of our faith and our belief in service to our country, Trijicon has put scripture references on our products for more than two decades. As long as we have men and women in danger, we will continue to do everything we can to provide them with both state-of-the-art technology and the never-ending support and prayers of a grateful nation.”

The use of the biblical references has been blasted by The Military Religious Freedom Foundation, an independent organization that first brought the concerns to light after being contacted by active-duty troops. Mikey Weinstein, MRFF president, conceded that Trijicon may have meant well, but the practice allows insurgents to claim the U.S. is waging a holy war and puts some troops in an unfair, unwanted situation.
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2010/01/military_biblical_optics_011910w/

 

[Quantum Windbag]

After investigating which of the 79 countries in the United Nations voted for the right to execute gays without cause, and seeing most of them are Muslim majority nations, I will no longer defend Islam as peaceful.

I do support the right of every American to practice their religion freely, including Muslims.

I've had good experiences with American Sufis, and enjoy Sufi poetry, but I have no problem admitting my stubbornness of clinging to these has blinded me to the dangers of Islamic law.

I was wrong. That doesn't mean I hate Muslims or feel as though there is nothing of value in Islamic spiritual practices.

Islam needs to undergo a reformation from within like Christianity did with the Protestant reformation. Until them, I support the individual Muslims who speak up, and condemn the political/theological structure we know as Islam.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

After investigating which of the 79 countries in the United Nations voted for the right to execute gays without cause, and seeing most of them are Muslim majority nations, I will no longer defend Islam as peaceful.

I do support the right of every American to practice their religion freely, including Muslims.

I've had good experiences with American Sufis, and enjoy Sufi poetry, but I have no problem admitting my stubbornness of clinging to these has blinded me to the dangers of Islamic law.

I was wrong. That doesn't mean I hate Muslims or feel as though there is nothing of value in Islamic spiritual practices.

I dont hate muslims either, I just object to Islams genocidal policies.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I agree. If the minority group of Christian dominionists were to have their way, America would be a Christian nation by their standards. That would most likely result in the recriminalization of homosexuality and could eventually lead to the execution of gays. That is, if we look to the example of the Christian extremist Church in Las Vegas who supported gay execution in Uganda.

I am opposed to theocracy of any kind, including Buddhist.

Put those fanatical people in charge and take all the money out of the United States and you'd have the same thing here.

What I find telling is how many Christians ignore the Dominionists. If there was a Buddhist equivalent movement I would sure be keeping an eye on them.


“I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good… Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a biblical duty, we are called on by God to conquer this country. We don’t want equal time. We don’t want pluralism.” Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue

As Betty Fischer, director of Kids in Ministry International and founder and director of Kids on Fire summer camp in North Dakota, noted in the Jesus Camp documentary, democracy is a problem because it "treats everyone as equals."

Theocratic Organizations

Alliance for Marriage
America's Foundation - Rick Santorum's Political Action Committee
American Center for Law and Justice
American Family Association
American Vision - founded by Gary Demar, leading theocratic ideologue
Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights
Center for Arizona Policy
Chalcedon Foundation - led by R. J. Rushdoony
Christian Action Network
Christian Business Men's Committee
Christian Coalition of America
Christian Exodus
ChristianAmerica.Com
Citizens for Excellence in Education - arm of National Association of Christian Educators
CitizenLink.Com - an arm of Focus on the Family
Coalition on Revival - Applying Biblical Principles to Every Sphere of Life and Thought
Concerned Women for America
Constitutional Law for Enlightened Citizens
Coral Ridge Ministries - led by D. James Kennedy
Council for National Policy - secret government council policy formed by Tim LaHaye
Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood
Creation Resource Foundation
Eagle Forum
Family Policy Network
Family Research Council
Free Congress Foundation
Home School Foundation - funded by the HSLDF
Home School Legal Defense Foundation (HSLDF)
Institute for Christian Economics - led by Gary North
National Association of Christian Educators (NACE)
Joshua Generation - aimed at 11 to 19 year olds; affiliated with Patrick Henry College
National Center for Home Education - affiliated with HSLDF
National Clergy Council
National Home Education Research Institute (NHERI)- funded by HSLDF
Operation Rescue
Restore America
Rutherford Institute
Traditional Values Coalition
Vision America - founded by Rick Scarborough, Baptist
Vision Forum Ministries
Wall Builders - led by David Barton
Worldview Weekend

Theocratic Educational Institutions

Patrick Henry College - for homeschooled children, partner of HSLDF
Regent University - "Regent" refers to Christian rulers who will govern the nation

Theocratic Publications and Media

A Christian Manifesto - address by Francis A. Schaeffer; summary of theocratic views
A Manifesto for the Christian Church - endorsed by the major theocratic players
American Vision Home School Online Store
Biblical Worldview Magazine
Citizen Magazine - published by Focus on the Family
Civilized Revolt (Formerly Virtue Magazine)
FreeBooks - from the Institute for Christian Economics
Generations - Radio Program
Home School Heartbeat (Radio program)
LifeWay Homeschool, Southern Baptist Convention - affiliated with HSLDF & NHERI
WorldView Magazine




American Theocracy: Who Wants to Turn America into a Theocracy?

there is a difference between watching a fringe group, debunking it when necessary, and ignoring them. I know they exist, and whenever anyone I know gets interested in them I point out the errors in their theology, and why we, as Christians, should not be overtly involved in politics. If they ever gain half the traction that what most of the world refers to as Fundamentalist Islam has I will be as vocal about my condemnation of them as I am about Islam.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Modern nation-states don't speak for Islam.

A Muslim can't be a homosexual because believing that the two sexes are complementary (and therefore exclusively sexually compatible) is a corollary of belief in Islam. Does homosexuality have legal consequences in Buddhism? Your behavior is regulated by the tenets of your own religion unless your crime involves the Muslim community. If we consider homosexuality a form of zina (which also includes adultery and heterosexual fornication,) a person can't be subjected to the hadd punishment unless there were four witnesses to the act of penetration or they bear witness against themselves four times. Hence no Muslim was executed for this crime during Muhammad's (SAWS) life who didn't choose to confess in this manner.

There are no Muslims that are homosexuals. You and Ahmadinejad agree about something, why am I not surprised?

 

[High_Gravity]

You can condemn the bad things that are done in Muslim countries without hating Islam.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

That's clever. No one said that mostly Christian nations vote against killing gays or infidels. Who's the liar?

"If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst." (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

I was speaking of the UN vote.

I cane nothing for vast parts of the bible, even less the quran.

When was the last time you heard of christians killing infedels?
When was the last time muslims killed infedels? Last week?

Depends how you look at it, our christian army is responsible for killing a lot more "infidels" than a muslim army is responsible for killing our "infidels."

It just depends on how the culture justifies or rationalizes killing. We rationalize it as a military act so the hundreds of thousands of civilians we kill is inconsequential, they rationalize it as their god given duty when they kill so it's inconsequential. Both are disgusting and immoral to me.

Our Army is not Christian. Other than that, you are a complete idiot.

 

[Sky Dancer]

After investigating which of the 79 countries in the United Nations voted for the right to execute gays without cause, and seeing most of them are Muslim majority nations, I will no longer defend Islam as peaceful.

I do support the right of every American to practice their religion freely, including Muslims.

I've had good experiences with American Sufis, and enjoy Sufi poetry, but I have no problem admitting my stubbornness of clinging to these has blinded me to the dangers of Islamic law.

I was wrong. That doesn't mean I hate Muslims or feel as though there is nothing of value in Islamic spiritual practices.

I dont hate muslims either, I just object to Islams genocidal policies.

I object to genocidal polices too. I don't see them in the Five Pillars of Islam. I wonder what happened?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

After investigating which of the 79 countries in the United Nations voted for the right to execute gays without cause, and seeing most of them are Muslim majority nations, I will no longer defend Islam as peaceful.

I do support the right of every American to practice their religion freely, including Muslims.

I've had good experiences with American Sufis, and enjoy Sufi poetry, but I have no problem admitting my stubbornness of clinging to these has blinded me to the dangers of Islamic law.

I was wrong. That doesn't mean I hate Muslims or feel as though there is nothing of value in Islamic spiritual practices.

I dont hate muslims either, I just object to Islams genocidal policies.

I object to genocidal polices too. I don't see them in the Five Pillars of Islam. I wonder what happened?

Thats as far as you looked.

 

[jillian]

Putting any religion in government and going by the texts is going to bring about evil.

If we went by Biblical law we too would be in favor of executing gays, and anyone who wasn't christian (at a minimum).

Combine religion and lack of money into a culture and this is what you get more often than not.

there is nothing in the bible saying one should execute gays.

there is nothing in the bible saying anyone who isn't christian should be executed. not in the new testament and certainly not in the old testament since there were no christians then.+

your conclusion is faulty.

 

[ekrem]

The German FM is a gay (Guido Westerwelle).
When he visited White-Russia, he asked Lukashenko in the press-conference what it is like for minorities like Gays in White-Russia.
Lukashenko answered: "I don't like faggots".

 

[Dr.Drock]

Putting any religion in government and going by the texts is going to bring about evil.

If we went by Biblical law we too would be in favor of executing gays, and anyone who wasn't christian (at a minimum).

Combine religion and lack of money into a culture and this is what you get more often than not.

there is nothing in the bible saying one should execute gays.

there is nothing in the bible saying anyone who isn't christian should be executed. not in the new testament and certainly not in the old testament since there were no christians then.+

your conclusion is faulty.

I apologize for the wording, let me say the exact same message to better fit the words you're looking for.

The Bible says to kill people who engage in gay activities, the Bible says to kill non-believers, it's your duty to kill them even if they're in your family.

(I dunno why I did that, I'm sure those words will just be picked at as well.)