Requiring health insurance is a enforcing conservative values

[Oscar Wao]

I believe you have no idea what "conservative" means.

A conservative takes responsibility for his own situation. He does not presume to know what is best for everyone else.

I wonder if anyone else has spotted the odd disparity between this post, and the sig line of the poster?

"Taking responsibility for his own situation" in the context of health insurance, is conservative code for: "I've got mine. Screw you."

Well, I believe your code is: "I have a right to everything, and you can't stop me from getting it!"

 

[The T]

Nobody stops you all from getting together, pooling your money and helping whomever you please.

Great. Would YOU kick in? No?

Well guess what - that's why the government has to step in and FORCE the "I don't give a fuck if you die or get sick," selfish assholes in this country to participate.

And Georgy boy? is that Liberty? NO. YOU mean to foist TYRANNY at the point of a gun upon others. *THAT* is what you advocate. Who's selfish with others' LIBERTY...?

Answer? *YOU*

 

[Cecilie1200]

Nobody stops you all from getting together, pooling your money and helping whomever you please.

Great. Would YOU kick in? No?

Well guess what - that's why the government has to step in and FORCE the "I don't give a fuck if you die or get sick," selfish assholes in this country to participate.

In order to take care of the "I'm entitled to the money you work for" selfish assholes?

Let's see. Who gets more sympathy? The people who are selfish with the products of their own labor, or the people who are selfish with the products of OTHER people's labor? That's a tough one.

Lemme say it again. I got mine, go get your own.

 

[George Costanza]

Nobody stops you all from getting together, pooling your money and helping whomever you please.

Great. Would YOU kick in? No?

Well guess what - that's why the government has to step in and FORCE the "I don't give a fuck if you die or get sick," selfish assholes in this country to participate.

And Georgy boy? is that Liberty? NO. YOU mean to foist TYRANNY at the point of a gun upon others. *THAT* is what you advocate. Who's selfish with others' LIBERTY...?

Answer? *YOU*

How do you feel about the income tax?

 

[The T]

Great. Would YOU kick in? No?

Well guess what - that's why the government has to step in and FORCE the "I don't give a fuck if you die or get sick," selfish assholes in this country to participate.

And Georgy boy? is that Liberty? NO. YOU mean to foist TYRANNY at the point of a gun upon others. *THAT* is what you advocate. Who's selfish with others' LIBERTY...?

Answer? *YOU*

How do you feel about the income tax?

Stop deflecting.

 

[The T]

Nobody stops you all from getting together, pooling your money and helping whomever you please.

Great. Would YOU kick in? No?

Well guess what - that's why the government has to step in and FORCE the "I don't give a fuck if you die or get sick," selfish assholes in this country to participate.

In order to take care of the "I'm entitled to the money you work for" selfish assholes?

Let's see. Who gets more sympathy? The people who are selfish with the products of their own labor, or the people who are selfish with the products of OTHER people's labor? That's a tough one.

Lemme say it again. I got mine, go get your own.

No it isn't, and why we find ourselves discussing this. FIRST thing these people have to LEARN/Understand ? It isn't the Government's Money or wealth to start with.

Once you come to grips with this fact?

Continue from there.

 

[ihopehefails]

Ahh...are you not aware of the fact that government is only obligated to ensure the free choice is everyone. You are not forced to participate in the increased cost of health care that you claim gets jacked up because of the uninsured. You choose to participate in it and you can choose not to. Your freedom is being maintained which is the only obligation government has to you.

PS
You are still communist.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Great. Would YOU kick in? No?

Well guess what - that's why the government has to step in and FORCE the "I don't give a fuck if you die or get sick," selfish assholes in this country to participate.

In order to take care of the "I'm entitled to the money you work for" selfish assholes?

Let's see. Who gets more sympathy? The people who are selfish with the products of their own labor, or the people who are selfish with the products of OTHER people's labor? That's a tough one.

Lemme say it again. I got mine, go get your own.

No it isn't, and why we find ourselves discussing this. FIRST thing these people have to LEARN/Understand ? It isn't the Government's Money or wealth to start with.

Once you come to grips with this fact?

Continue from there.

I'm afraid I have no idea what your response is supposed to mean in relation to the post you're presumably answering. Are you agreeing with me or arguing with me?

 

[George Costanza]

In order to take care of the "I'm entitled to the money you work for" selfish assholes?

Let's see. Who gets more sympathy? The people who are selfish with the products of their own labor, or the people who are selfish with the products of OTHER people's labor? That's a tough one.

Lemme say it again. I got mine, go get your own.

No it isn't, and why we find ourselves discussing this. FIRST thing these people have to LEARN/Understand ? It isn't the Government's Money or wealth to start with.

Once you come to grips with this fact?

Continue from there.

I'm afraid I have no idea what your response is supposed to mean in relation to the post you're presumably answering. Are you agreeing with me or arguing with me?

Not clear to me either. Clarification please!!!

 

[Polk]

Requiring health insurance forces people to be responsible for their own health care.

No. Requiring Health Insurance forces people to pay for the health care of others.

We're always paid for the health care of others. Or do you think when people without insurance show up to the ER that they're just treated for free?

 

[Polk]

I believe you have no idea what "conservative" means.

A conservative takes responsibility for his own situation. He does not presume to know what is best for everyone else.

In theory that sounds good.

In the real world it does not work.

Your neighbor chooses not to buy healthcare. He has a heart attack. He rund up $300,000 in bills. He has no savings.

Who pays for it?

Private foundations.
The hospital absorbs the loss
His relatives
His neighbors
His church

This is the issue. To big government types the only and universal solution is more big government. There are no mechanisms outside of government that are capable of dealing with these issues, despite the fact that they did just fine before big government got into the act.
In any case, unreimbursed health care expenses are a very small part of the problem in health care.

That's the thing though. The hospital doesn't absorb the loss. It passes it on to other consumers in the form of higher prices.

 

[Polk]

And yet every one of the orgs I mentioned did a fine job in the late 19th and early 20th century covering all of those problems and more.

They did a "fine job" covering these problems because these problems didn't exist. You got sick and you died.

Why are these institutions so strapped? Can it be that high taxation has left them with less money? Could this be part of the overall bureaucratic plan, to cut out alternatives to big government? I don't know but it wouldn't suprise me.

Except that, you know, charities aren't taxed.

 

[ihopehefails]

In theory that sounds good.

In the real world it does not work.

Your neighbor chooses not to buy healthcare. He has a heart attack. He rund up $300,000 in bills. He has no savings.

Who pays for it?

Private foundations.
The hospital absorbs the loss
His relatives
His neighbors
His church

This is the issue. To big government types the only and universal solution is more big government. There are no mechanisms outside of government that are capable of dealing with these issues, despite the fact that they did just fine before big government got into the act.
In any case, unreimbursed health care expenses are a very small part of the problem in health care.

That's the thing though. The hospital doesn't absorb the loss. It passes it on to other consumers in the form of higher prices.

Let me get this straight. In order to reduce the cost of eveyone's health care we have to remove my freedom? The last time I checked my freedom is my own property handed to me from God. I know you don't believe that and I'm not stopping you from believing otherwise for yourself but since I retain my rights (as stated in the 9th amendment of the constitution) those rights are not negotiable.

Do you want to try another solution to the problem?

 

[The T]

In theory that sounds good.

In the real world it does not work.

Your neighbor chooses not to buy healthcare. He has a heart attack. He rund up $300,000 in bills. He has no savings.

Who pays for it?

Private foundations.
The hospital absorbs the loss
His relatives
His neighbors
His church

This is the issue. To big government types the only and universal solution is more big government. There are no mechanisms outside of government that are capable of dealing with these issues, despite the fact that they did just fine before big government got into the act.
In any case, unreimbursed health care expenses are a very small part of the problem in health care.

That's the thing though. The hospital doesn't absorb the loss. It passes it on to other consumers in the form of higher prices.

So government comes in and makes it worse by mandating that other people PAY for it under penalty of LAW. Now there's a Solution...NOT.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Requiring health insurance forces people to be responsible for their own health care.

If someone does not have health insurance the rest of us pay their bills. We pay their bills through health care providers increasing the costs to those who can pay. Many times the government pays the bill of those who do not pay using our tax dollars.

People who choose not to have health care insurance cannot choose not to get sick.

If an individual does not have health care coverage the rest of us will end up paying their costs one way or another.

To enforce personal accountability for health care costs we have two choices.
1. Mandate health care insurance
2. Do not treat individuals who cannot pay.

I believe in personal accountability and I believe in option 1 to make people accountable. for their health care.

Frank Zappa said it best,

"Cause you're an asshole, you're an asshole. That's right! You're an asshole, you're an asshole. Yes Yes!"

 

[The T]

Requiring health insurance forces people to be responsible for their own health care.

If someone does not have health insurance the rest of us pay their bills. We pay their bills through health care providers increasing the costs to those who can pay. Many times the government pays the bill of those who do not pay using our tax dollars.

People who choose not to have health care insurance cannot choose not to get sick.

If an individual does not have health care coverage the rest of us will end up paying their costs one way or another.

To enforce personal accountability for health care costs we have two choices.
1. Mandate health care insurance
2. Do not treat individuals who cannot pay.

I believe in personal accountability and I believe in option 1 to make people accountable. for their health care.

Frank Zappa said it best,

"Cause you're an asshole, you're an asshole. That's right! You're an asshole, you're an asshole. Yes Yes!"

No Sooner Said....

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x80h_JiOTZs&feature=related"]YouTube - Frank Zappa - Broken Hearts Are For Assholes[/ame]

 

[Polk]

Private foundations.
The hospital absorbs the loss
His relatives
His neighbors
His church

This is the issue. To big government types the only and universal solution is more big government. There are no mechanisms outside of government that are capable of dealing with these issues, despite the fact that they did just fine before big government got into the act.
In any case, unreimbursed health care expenses are a very small part of the problem in health care.

That's the thing though. The hospital doesn't absorb the loss. It passes it on to other consumers in the form of higher prices.

Let me get this straight. In order to reduce the cost of eveyone's health care we have to remove my freedom? The last time I checked my freedom is my own property handed to me from God. I know you don't believe that and I'm not stopping you from believing otherwise for yourself but since I retain my rights (as stated in the 9th amendment of the constitution) those rights are not negotiable.

Do you want to try another solution to the problem?

If that's true, then the government is also violating your freedom because smoking crack is against the law.

 

[ElmerMudd]

If the government did not provide sewers people would start crapping all over your yard and it would become your business.
You would have to make decisions. Do you start shooting everyone who craps on my yard, do you clean up the crap or do you agree to pay some taxes so you and everyone else does not have to crap on your yard.
The point is:
At the end of the day what others do will affect you. As a human it is impossible to be an isolationist in the 21st century in the USA.

If you choose to live in a city you pay that sewer cost that the city provides. You should be free to shit in your own yard as long as the smell of your shit does not infect the air of your neighbors yards. Don't expect someone else to pay for your tie in cost to city sewer. You have options you can pay for tie ins to city sewer or you build your own septic system. See how that works.

I can say I do not and will refuse to pay for cleaning up or maintaining your shit when I personally built my own septic system and maintain it without costing you or anyone else a single dime.

Private foundations.
The hospital absorbs the loss
His relatives
His neighbors
His church

This is the issue. To big government types the only and universal solution is more big government. There are no mechanisms outside of government that are capable of dealing with these issues, despite the fact that they did just fine before big government got into the act.
In any case, unreimbursed health care expenses are a very small part of the problem in health care.

And what I highlighted do so because they are geared for it and do so willingly. To foist this on the people whom have other ideas on how to spend their hard-earned money is Servitude at the point of a GUN courtesy of the Government.

That isn't Liberty. It's Tyranny in a basic form. It flies in the Face of what the Founders legacy. it's high time people start learning this basic precept.

I had to have surgery about eight years ago. We did not have insurance. Knowing this in advance the surgeon arranged to have the surgery done at a day clinic. We traded services with the doctor for our landscaping services for his ability to do the needed surgery. The day surgery clinic cost was less than sixteen hundred dollars. A friend's wife who is a nurse had us stay at their house so she could watch over me for the night after the surgery. The next day I went to the doctor's office and he removed a drain tube. That same surgery in a hospital setting for the same procedure on the opposite side with the same problem three years later cost almost $40,000.00.

I do believe that there should be options for those who cannot afford insurance. An option and mandatory by forced into purchasing something you do not want are two different cats.

The federal legislators are mandating laws they themselves do not have to partake of. Everyone who believes in freedom should be bothered by this.

Try having a heart attack and hold off healthcare until you can afford it.

 

[ElmerMudd]

What the fuckin HELL do you think the healthcare bill is? And YOU applaud it at the point of a gun if people elect OUT? Refuse and Jail time?

s0n? YOU have alot of thinking to do.

If you elect out we will end up paying for your sorry ass. You elect out and cannot pay your biill the taxpayer have to bail you out.
I would be OK with you not signing up if you sign a contract saying If I do not have insurance or funds do not treat me.

Really? No MATTER if *I* or some other Individual can pay for care ourselves?

You want to punish those that can pay for it and OPT OUT on their own accord demonstrating responsibility that comes with their Liberty?

IS THIS YOUR STAND? Is this *Your FINAL ANSWER*?

If someone is willing to pay for you that is fine.

If you cannot pay and no friend, relative or unknown beneficiary other than the government will not pay for you we pull the plug.

sign the paper or buy the government insurance.

that seems fair to me.

 

[ElmerMudd]

Spare us the lame assed argument of basic services we agree to vs social injustice nonsense, that red herring fools nobody so stop the bullshit.

I find healthcare more important than sewers and roads. If you are dead you tend not to crap or drive as much.

I believe in the free market but it does not work for healtcare. In the free market you eliminate risk and increase profits. With healtcare that does not work.

You are an idiot. Without proper sanitation you have cities full of diseased people. Commerce is dead without adequate roads. The free market works fine with health care regardless of the push you and your cohorts are willing to force on everyone else in order to line the pockets of again a few who believe they have the right to deny others freedom of choice.

Do you run a business or work for a business in the private sector? I do. I own my own small business that I am proud to run in the free market.
Even in this poor ecomomy we have been successful. No lay offs. we even gave raises this year.
We also have reduced risk and overhead to increase profits.
If I ran a healthcare insurance company I would decrease risk by not selling insurance to people with preexisting conditions or anyone over the age of 50. I would not want large healthcare pools because their profits would be substantially less than small pools where I could hve more controll of the risk.

The people who need health insurance the most are the ones who are the toughest to make a profit on if you are a private business.

You do not have a clue how the free market works. it works great for most endeavors but not healthcare.

You are an idiot.