Republicans Pull Brilliant Move in Senate

[Gem]

Middle School. I teach 6th, 7th, and 8th grade Learning Support. All subjects.

I also write (very part-time). Some articles and (don't laugh) two romance novels. Hehe. But trust me, that money went to the 1st year of law school - with loans still needed to cover the rest!

 

[Mr.Conley]

Middle School. I teach 6th, 7th, and 8th grade Learning Support. All subjects.

I also write (very part-time). Some articles and (don't laugh) two romance novels. Hehe. But trust me, that money went to the 1st year of law school - with loans still needed to cover the rest!

That sounds really cool. I've been thinking about teaching history. It's always something that I thought would be cool. I'm not sure though.

 

[Gem]

Teaching is incredibly rewarding...its also incredibly exhausting - for little reward aside from what you take away from it internally. It definetly isn't for everyone.

However - the moments I have been able to get another person excited about learning, the moments I have been there to help a middleschooler deal with an issue, work through a problem, etc. in a way that will help them develop into a good person are some of the coolest moments of my life...

(But if you want to hear the negative side...talk to me in about three months, lol...I should be good and tired by November!)

P.S. Sorry for the thread hijack!!!

 

[Annie]

That sounds really cool. I've been thinking about teaching history. It's always something that I thought would be cool. I'm not sure though.

I teach history. Like Gem, middle school, though looking for secondary position.

It truly is rewarding and exciting, except when it isn't! (Right, Gem)? Luckily that usually involves parents or administration and not too often.

 

[jillian]

My Grandfather was the older child of Irish immigrants. The family was incredibly poor. My grandfather used to put a block of ice and his younger sister on his wagon and sell ice door to door for money for the family. He worked on Christmas Eve. My great-grandfather died and great aunt became a nun in her teens and moved away, leaving my grandfather to take care of his family. He worked his entire young life and discovered ways to not spend money so there would be more for his family. For lunch for many years, he ate tomato sandwiches and tomato juice. That is, he would sit in the restaurant and ask for a glass of water and two pieces of bread...that and the ketchup on the table would provide his lunch.

In his late 20's and early 30's he served as a medic in WWII. He was in Normandy on D-Day, fought in France, Italy, and was devestated to discover that the Hershey's chocolate bars many of the GI's were giving to the Holocaust survivors they liberated from a concentration camp actually made them sicker.

When he returned home he went to a restaurant and ordered nothing but a head of lettuce - it had been years since he had eaten fresh vegetables. He then started working as a mechanics assistant for a shipping company all of you have heard of...by the time I was born he was a VP of the company. He never went to college. He just worked hard, every day. At his funeral - the CEO of this company was in attendance, so was every mechanic and worker at his local office.

Before he died he put both of his daughters through college and started a small trust fund for them and his 4 grandchildren.

Due to a lot of hard work and smart investments on my parents part my mother's share of that trust fund wasn't needed to put me through college...my parents were able to do it on their own. So the trust fund grew a bit more. I hope to one day never have to touch that trust fund to send my children to school...I hope to do nothing but add to it for my children and grandchildren...like my grandfather did - and like my mother and father did.

It still is remarkabley small compared to Paris Hilton's...but it represents a hope. A hope that an Irish-American boy had for his family. That they would be safe and protected...and able to go to college and do all the things my grandfather wasn't able to do. It was the hope that maybe his grandchildren wouldn't have to work every single Christmas Eve. That they could go to whatever school they wanted to...study what they wanted and become good people. It was the hope that he could provide for his "girls" as he called his daughters, even after he was gone.

Estate taxes don't just take money from Paris Hilton and Ivanka Trump, Jillian. They steal money that was sweated and worked for by hard-working American citizens who busted their asses their entire lives to achieve the American dream of providing a better life for their kids than they had themselves.

Personally, I don't want to ever have to touch that money. I'm working my ass off everyday - and trust me, with my husband in lawschool full-time and me supporting us as a teacher and writer - we are NOT living the high life. If I plan well, and I'm trying, by the time I inherit my grandfather's and mothers gift to me I won't need it...I can save it for my children and their children.

But I'll tell you one thing, Jillian...that money has been taxed and taxed again, already and you and any other tax payer do not deserve one more dime of the money my family worked their asses off for.

Estate taxes are unconstitutional...in fact, they go against much of what America is supposed to be about. You can choose to close your mind and just few it as Paris Hilton-types losing money they won't even know is gone...but thats not who this hurts.

You can still support estate taxes if you want. But I wanted to share my story with you because I want you to see another angle of it. My grandfather was a great man who worked so hard every day of his life. He worked not so he could be rich, so that he could take lavish vacations...he didn't do this so his family would be rich...or that we could have seven houses (no one in my family owns more than one house)...he did it so that we would have opportunities to go to college, be able to take care of emergencies, to be safe. It is a quite different story than Paris Hilton...but I think it is far more valid when considering why the estate tax should be lowered and/or removed.

You know what, Gem. I respect your story. Mine is a bit different, but not so very much. You can couch it any way you want to. But right now, there is an exemption of one and a half million dollars before estate tax ever kicks in. Only the smallest percentage of families pays estate taxes based on that exemption. I don't even mind raising the minimum since one decent house can meet the exemption now.

My objection is that I didn't earn the money, my father, also the son of immigrants, but Belarussian, not Irish, did. He's also a "self-made" type of guy...went from being blue collar to running a successful, and pretty well known, corporation to having his own business concern. When the sad day comes that his money becomes mine (hopefully not for a very long time), I don't see anything wrong with paying tax on that money which never belonged to me previously. Now, I will say that my brother disagrees with me on that one.

As for estate taxes being unconstitutional or going against what this country was founded on, that's false on both counts. The founding fathers were really adamant about why they wanted estate taxes -- they didn't want inherited aristocracy and they certainly, in establishing the estate tax in the first place, made sure there was nothing in the Constitution which was inconsistent with its passage.

 

[Annie]

You know what, Gem. I respect your story. Mine is a bit different, but not so very much. You can couch it any way you want to. But right now, there is an exemption of one and a half million dollars before estate tax ever kicks in. Only the smallest percentage of families pays estate taxes based on that exemption. I don't even mind raising the minimum since one decent house can meet the exemption now.

My objection is that I didn't earn the money, my father, also the son of immigrants, but Belarussian, not Irish, did. He's also a "self-made" type of guy...went from being blue collar to running a successful, and pretty well known, corporation to having his own business concern. When the sad day comes that his money becomes mine (hopefully not for a very long time), I don't see anything wrong with paying tax on that money which never belonged to me previously. Now, I will say that my brother disagrees with me on that one.

As for estate taxes being unconstitutional or going against what this country was founded on, that's false on both counts. The founding fathers were really adamant about why they wanted estate taxes -- they didn't want inherited aristocracy and they certainly, in establishing the estate tax in the first place, made sure there was nothing in the Constitution which was inconsistent with its passage.

Jillian, are you saying that the estate tax has been in existence since the beginning of the republic? I'm not finding anything like that, do you have a link?

 

[jillian]

Jillian, are you saying that the estate tax has been in existence since the beginning of the republic? I'm not finding anything like that, do you have a link?

I can't find it right now either, but here's some interesting stuff including Jefferson's comments on the subject.

http://www.courant.com/news/opinion/op_ed/hc-neem0726.artjul26,0,911989.story?coll=hc-headlines-oped

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4725777

 

[Annie]

I can't find it right now either, but here's some interesting stuff including Jefferson's comments on the subject.

http://www.courant.com/news/opinion/op_ed/hc-neem0726.artjul26,0,911989.story?coll=hc-headlines-oped

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4725777

NPR takes it out of context, I think the first is more on the mark. Jefferson, like many of the 'founders' were progeny of those that had left Europe, because of primogenture. Jillian, is this another case of your understanding, but misrepresenting?

 

[Bullypulpit]

I care because it is double and even triple taxation. Why is it so bad to pass on the fruits of your labor to your family? Why should the government step in and take half because you died?

Many times the family has to sell the business, or family property, to pay the tax.

Liberalism punishes achievement and rewards failure

If it was income from wages earned, it would be one thing. But since most of the income generated in these multi-million and billion dollar estates is income from investments...Screw 'em. Tax investment income at twice the rate of wage generated income and tax estates valued at greater than $3 million at 50%. Also, the Republican bill includes language which would eliminate requirements for overtime pay.

If you want an aristocracy in America, abolish the estate tax...Then you will have a wealthy, propertied gentry beholden to no one. Then there will be everyone else. As it stands now, the Republicans have the average citizen bent over a brass rail while they, and their monied backers, take turns screwing us.

As for the consequences you ascribe to the estate tax, can you actually provide a to a documented case(s). Or are you just blowing smoke again? There's nothing "brilliant" about their strategy. It's just pure cussedness, mean-spiritedness and greed.

 

[dilloduck]

You know what, Gem. I respect your story. Mine is a bit different, but not so very much. You can couch it any way you want to. But right now, there is an exemption of one and a half million dollars before estate tax ever kicks in. Only the smallest percentage of families pays estate taxes based on that exemption. I don't even mind raising the minimum since one decent house can meet the exemption now.

My objection is that I didn't earn the money, my father, also the son of immigrants, but Belarussian, not Irish, did. He's also a "self-made" type of guy...went from being blue collar to running a successful, and pretty well known, corporation to having his own business concern. When the sad day comes that his money becomes mine (hopefully not for a very long time), I don't see anything wrong with paying tax on that money which never belonged to me previously. Now, I will say that my brother disagrees with me on that one.

As for estate taxes being unconstitutional or going against what this country was founded on, that's false on both counts. The founding fathers were really adamant about why they wanted estate taxes -- they didn't want inherited aristocracy and they certainly, in establishing the estate tax in the first place, made sure there was nothing in the Constitution which was inconsistent with its passage.

Well lets make it equal for everyone-----20% of everything you own when you die goes to uncle sam .

 

[Annie]

Well lets make it equal for everyone-----20% of everything you own when you die goes to uncle sam .

Why? It was taxed when earned.

 

[jillian]

Why? It was taxed when earned.

The same argument can be made with respect to wages paid to someone who takes care of your kids or cleans your house. It's fallacious.

As for your last question, I think the NPR piece is pretty on the money (pardon the pun).

 

[Annie]

The same argument can be made with respect to wages paid to someone who takes care of your kids or cleans your house. It's fallacious.

As for your last question, I think the NPR piece is pretty on the money (pardon the pun).

If I'd have someone taking care of my kids or cleaning my house, why should their survivors have to pay more than what is owed upon earning?

Why do you think the NPR article was right? What about primogenture and Jefferson, which is what he was referring to?

 

[jillian]

Well lets make it equal for everyone-----20% of everything you own when you die goes to uncle sam .

As I said, I don't have a problem with the exemption or even making it a bit bigger. I'm just not so het up about protecting 1/2 of one percent of families. And just for the record, it may sound a bit like semantics, but it's not the money you have when you die that is taxed. It's the money that comes into the possession of your heirs which is taxed...and they did nothing to earn it.

Let's also not forget that jointly owned property isn't taxed; nor are certain types of trusts. People of substantial wealth know how to avail themselves of effective estate tax planning.

 

[dilloduck]

As I said, I don't have a problem with the exemption or even making it a bit bigger. I'm just not so het up about protecting 1/2 of one percent of families. And just for the record, it may sound a bit like semantics, but it's not the money you have when you die that is taxed. It's the money that comes into the possession of your heirs which is taxed...and they did nothing to earn it.

Let's also not forget that jointly owned property isn't taxed; nor are certain types of trusts. People of substantial wealth know how to avail themselves of effective estate tax planning.

ahhhhhhh back to rich people and lawyers again

 

[dilloduck]

As I said, I don't have a problem with the exemption or even making it a bit bigger. I'm just not so het up about protecting 1/2 of one percent of families. And just for the record, it may sound a bit like semantics, but it's not the money you have when you die that is taxed. It's the money that comes into the possession of your heirs which is taxed...and they did nothing to earn it.

Let's also not forget that jointly owned property isn't taxed; nor are certain types of trusts. People of substantial wealth know how to avail themselves of effective estate tax planning.

it's not the money you have when you die that is taxed. It's the money that comes into the possession of your heirs which is taxed

It is my wish to pass it on---I thought things you say before you die are sacred --like " don't let me live in a coma"

 

[Mr. P]

THE GOOD NEWS is it's becoming increasingly less likely that you'll owe estate taxes. That's because Congress has approved a schedule that increases the amount an individual can leave to heirs tax-free to $2 million in 2006-2008 and eventually to $3.5 million in 2009. In 2010, it will supposedly be repealed altogether.
Still, with 401(k) accounts compounding and life insurance death benefits thrown into the pot, it's easier than some think for a working couple to be subject to the estate tax, at least for the next few years. And this tax can be brutal. For every dollar more than $2 million that you leave behind, Uncle Sam will take 46 cents.

More......

http://www.smartmoney.com/tax/homefamily/index.cfm?story=estatetax

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

What if you have a business with say...lots of expensive machinery? What if your income stream is relatively low despite that? I guess you lose the family business. Yay for big corporations.

From the second NPR article:

Put another way, those of us who support sensible reform propose that about 99.5% of all American families pay not a single penny in taxes on what they leave to their heirs. Not a penny. Zippo. Nothing. The overwhelming number of Democrats who oppose complete repeal would be willing to pass this type of reform today.

Mr. Sperling, if it were up to most people who think like you do, there would be a nearly total confiscation of wealth upon death. Most of them will also gleefully point out that the estate tax doesn't affect that many people. Of course it doesn't, thanks to lawmakers who fought your side tooth and nail. If it were up to you, it would, in fact, effect nearly everyone.

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

Another thing I've been pondering lately: how could you dodge the estate tax, or at least stay under whatever the ceiling is, if you're sort of borderlineish?

You can't just write your heirs a check. No, that would leave an electronic record in a bank somewhere. Hmmm. You could give your heir a gift of land or stocks or whatever, but that just gets taxed as income.

Maybe you could just withdraw a very large sum of cash, and then hand it over without telling anyone. But then your heirs are left with a large pile of rapidly depreciating paper, which could potentially become worthless if/when there is a banking panic or the fed lets hyperinflation spiral out of control. They would only be able to spend it sparingly, otherwise it would attract undue attention.

Which leads to my final thought: gold. Withdraw your cash without explaining why to anyone at the bank. Go to your local bullion dealer (not online, that will leave an electronic trail), and purchase gold anonymously. Now you can leave your property to whoever you please, with no one the wiser. They can't spend it, except in minute amounts here and there, but it would be a nice safety hedge in case of a bad recession or depression.

 

[red states rule]

Leave it to liberals like Jilly to create a country where when you are born your family gets a birth certificate

When you die, your family gets a tax bill