Republicans are in trouble

[kiwiman127]

Next years election is one the GOP should win based on the economy of Main Street America. But the GOP is repeating over and over that it's the wealthy elite and Corporate America who needs all the help and that the Middle Class and poor are the only ones who must make the sacrifice in reducing the National Debt.
That's where the GOP shows just out of touch with Main Street America they really are! Every solution they have for the economy targets the further enhancement of those who are already wildly increasing their income and wealth. Every sacrifice the GOP is asking of this country targets those who have seen flat wages, loss of wealth, fixes incomes and those who are suffering from high unemployment. And they are doing this in the face of poll after poll after poll that shows that Main Street America wants the wealthy to also sacrifice to help this country's overall economy. Yet, the GOP wants to go in the opposite direction. That chosen direction has the GOP shooting themselves in the foot as it turns it back on America's biggest voting block, (the working Middle Class).

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Republicans are in trouble

Republicans are in trouble to the extent they’ve alienated a majority of moderate and independent voters with a radical, extreme agenda predicated on blind dogma and the single goal of ‘getting rid of Obama.’

The elections this week clearly illustrate that a majority of Americans reject the war waged on unions and the pointless hostile demeanor toward public sector employees.

They are in trouble with regard to their inability to field a viable, credible presidential candidate; indeed, these candidates’ efforts to appease the radical right in the GOP has succeeded in only turning-off millions of additional voters.

Americans want responsible governance, not partisan politics; they want the ‘war on Obama’ to stop and lawmakers to address the Nation’s issues.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Next years election is one the GOP should win based on the economy of Main Street America. But the GOP is repeating over and over that it's the wealthy elite and Corporate America who needs all the help and that the Middle Class and poor are the only ones who must make the sacrifice in reducing the National Debt.
That's where the GOP shows just out of touch with Main Street America they really are! Every solution they have for the economy targets the further enhancement of those who are already wildly increasing their income and wealth. Every sacrifice the GOP is asking of this country targets those who have seen flat wages, loss of wealth, fixes incomes and those who are suffering from high unemployment. And they are doing this in the face of poll after poll after poll that shows that Main Street America wants the wealthy to also sacrifice to help this country's overall economy. Yet, the GOP wants to go in the opposite direction. That chosen direction has the GOP shooting themselves in the foot as it turns it back on America's biggest voting block, (the working Middle Class).

Funny, your avatar say "No Labels" but that's the only language you seem to speak!

And you think that only the Republicans are asking for sacrifice? Must I remind you of the number of times our President has said that "we all need to sacrifice"?

Translation: That means Tax Hikes and Austerity Measures.
Translation2: That means Gov't Takes More and gives us back Less.

 

[kiwiman127]

Next years election is one the GOP should win based on the economy of Main Street America. But the GOP is repeating over and over that it's the wealthy elite and Corporate America who needs all the help and that the Middle Class and poor are the only ones who must make the sacrifice in reducing the National Debt.
That's where the GOP shows just out of touch with Main Street America they really are! Every solution they have for the economy targets the further enhancement of those who are already wildly increasing their income and wealth. Every sacrifice the GOP is asking of this country targets those who have seen flat wages, loss of wealth, fixes incomes and those who are suffering from high unemployment. And they are doing this in the face of poll after poll after poll that shows that Main Street America wants the wealthy to also sacrifice to help this country's overall economy. Yet, the GOP wants to go in the opposite direction. That chosen direction has the GOP shooting themselves in the foot as it turns it back on America's biggest voting block, (the working Middle Class).

Funny, your avatar say "No Labels" but that's the only language you seem to speak!

And you think that only the Republicans are asking for sacrifice? Must I remind you of the number of times our President has said that "we all need to sacrifice"?

Translation: That means Tax Hikes and Austerity Measures.
Translation2: That means Gov't Takes More and gives us back Less.

Oh, I have done my fair share of beating down the do nothing Dems who have no clue on how to devise a budget. A good share of my Reps have come from conservatives. Actually, (and I have stated this often on these boards) I think both parties suck. They are married so much to their ideologies that they refuse to work together, that hurts America and our ability to recover from this long, long, long recovery (?).
My thoughts reflect Main Street America. Secondly I do think, as most of Main Street America thinks that all of Americans should sacrifice to right our economy and not just Main Street America. Representing what is good for Main Street America represents what's good for America. I'm simply defending working Americans who have been screwed over for decades while the elitist prosper while grabbing more and more of this country's total income and wealth.
America as a whole, had it's strongest economy when the Middle Class was strong. What happened to that? The American worker saw their wages falling behind inflation starting in the 1980's. As the wealth and income transfered upwards, the ability of the Middle Class to drive the economy went downwards. The Middle Class is the Consumer Class. Why this recovery is taking so long (and projected to drag out for years) is the lack of capital in the Middle Class sector. Over 70% of the US economy is driven by consumer spending and the economy is dragging because there is little strength in expendable income within the Middle Class, thus demand is weak.
Yeah, I'm taking a shot at the GOP, I'll admit it. They have alot ideas that benefit those who don't need anymore breaks and the only ideas they have for Main Street America is for them to sacrifice and to accept the move towards plutocracy.
This thread is about the 2012 election and why I think the GOP may be in trouble. If one in a unbias way listens to their sound bites on the economy, one would think that the opposite is happening in this country. One would think the wealthy elites are struggling and need immediate help and that Main Street America was doing just great and should be willing to bear the cost of the economic recovery of the US. That is being out of touch with reality and Main Street America knows it.
The sad truth is that the Dems are no better as they have no ideas, so there are no negative sound bites that would enrage Main Street America. One can't say that about the GOP.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Next years election is one the GOP should win based on the economy of Main Street America. But the GOP is repeating over and over that it's the wealthy elite and Corporate America who needs all the help and that the Middle Class and poor are the only ones who must make the sacrifice in reducing the National Debt.
That's where the GOP shows just out of touch with Main Street America they really are! Every solution they have for the economy targets the further enhancement of those who are already wildly increasing their income and wealth. Every sacrifice the GOP is asking of this country targets those who have seen flat wages, loss of wealth, fixes incomes and those who are suffering from high unemployment. And they are doing this in the face of poll after poll after poll that shows that Main Street America wants the wealthy to also sacrifice to help this country's overall economy. Yet, the GOP wants to go in the opposite direction. That chosen direction has the GOP shooting themselves in the foot as it turns it back on America's biggest voting block, (the working Middle Class).

Funny, your avatar say "No Labels" but that's the only language you seem to speak!

And you think that only the Republicans are asking for sacrifice? Must I remind you of the number of times our President has said that "we all need to sacrifice"?

Translation: That means Tax Hikes and Austerity Measures.
Translation2: That means Gov't Takes More and gives us back Less.

The sad truth is that the Dems are no better as they have no ideas, so there are no negative sound bites that would enrage Main Street America. One can't say that about the GOP.

Point taken.

 

[Oldstyle]

Republicans are in trouble

Republicans are in trouble to the extent they’ve alienated a majority of moderate and independent voters with a radical, extreme agenda predicated on blind dogma and the single goal of ‘getting rid of Obama.’

The elections this week clearly illustrate that a majority of Americans reject the war waged on unions and the pointless hostile demeanor toward public sector employees.

They are in trouble with regard to their inability to field a viable, credible presidential candidate; indeed, these candidates’ efforts to appease the radical right in the GOP has succeeded in only turning-off millions of additional voters.

Americans want responsible governance, not partisan politics; they want the ‘war on Obama’ to stop and lawmakers to address the Nation’s issues.

Ah, yes...the "war" on public sector employees! It's amusing how a group who's level of benefits and general compensation has skyrocketed in comparison to the general public's benefits and compensation, now view themselves as "under attack" when the very taxpayers that can't afford to pay for the lavish benefits packages that union friendly politicians have given to the unions that put them in power simply ask for some fiscal sanity.

States and towns across the nation can't afford the benefit packages that public sector unions have essentially awarded themselves. They will either have to be bailed out financially by the Federal Government or they will have to raise taxes on the private sector. But you call for "responsible governance"? Too funny...

 

[thereisnospoon]

George W. Bush inherited a strong economy, a budget surplus, and a nation at peace.

Eight years later, he left Obama with a shattered economy, a trillion dollar deficit, and two useless wars.

Obama saved the country from another Great Depression, rebuilt GM, reformed healthcare, reformed Wall Street, doubled the stock market, created 19 straight months of private sector job growth, got Bin Laden, got Gaddafi, and got us out of Iraq.

Obama deserves to be re-elected, my friends.

Ahh yes....the words of an Obama sycophant...
You will blindly and faithfully cast your vote for Obama.
Question is what will you do if he wins a 2nd term and by law cannot run for a third term?
I think you will shit yourself and enter a mental institution because the country will NEVER elect another leftist radical like Obama ever again.

 

[thereisnospoon]

If you are right and the corps are not hiring for poltical reasons then the corps are fucking with our democracy huh?

If corps are using their power to control our democracy then you know why there are Americans protesting in the streets to stop them huh?

With each successive displays of vapidity I have come to the conclusion that you have lost your right to an opinion.
God gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason. In the absence of knowledge of a certain subject, one should open the plural and close the singular.

 

[thereisnospoon]

It has everything to do with the president. We (the corporation I work for) are making decisions to export manufacturing to other places because of the cost uncertainty of this country due to regulation. Crow all you want...I sit in meetings and hear it all the time.

You're exporting manufacturing jobs to other places because of the "cost uncertainty?" Is that even English? What is Cost Uncertainty? You have no idea how much it will cost to manufacture something?

Shouldn't you blame your suppliers for that and not Obama?

Naive..
Cost uncertainty can be explained as this:...With the uncertainty of Obamacare and impending tax increases associated with the ACA plus other new regulations and fees proposed by the Obama admin, business is in a holding pattern.
For companies with facilities overseas that are looking to reinvest here in the US there is a mine field of tax liability. There is a bill being discussed that will permanently lower the tax rates on repatriated assets to be used for new investment.
Right now the tax on these funds is a whopping 35%. Business is staying clear.
As long as such anti business anti job creating laws and regulations exist, unemployment will remain high and the economy stagnant.
Obama has the opportunity to prove that he is interested ion creating REAL employment. Permanent jobs in the private sector.

 

[Katzndogz]

Oh yes the republicans are in big trouble.

Just ask obama and mention Virginia. See what he says.

 

[The T]

Oh yes the republicans are in big trouble.

Just ask obama and mention Virginia. See what he says.

Florida for that matter.

 

[Unkotare]

Honestly, this is Obama's election to lose. .

Whatever drugs you are on, you need to stop.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Next years election is one the GOP should win based on the economy of Main Street America. But the GOP is repeating over and over that it's the wealthy elite and Corporate America who needs all the help and that the Middle Class and poor are the only ones who must make the sacrifice in reducing the National Debt.
That's where the GOP shows just out of touch with Main Street America they really are! Every solution they have for the economy targets the further enhancement of those who are already wildly increasing their income and wealth. Every sacrifice the GOP is asking of this country targets those who have seen flat wages, loss of wealth, fixes incomes and those who are suffering from high unemployment. And they are doing this in the face of poll after poll after poll that shows that Main Street America wants the wealthy to also sacrifice to help this country's overall economy. Yet, the GOP wants to go in the opposite direction. That chosen direction has the GOP shooting themselves in the foot as it turns it back on America's biggest voting block, (the working Middle Class).

The government cannot 'help' the middle class by taking away assets from the top earners.
Like it or not, these are the job creators. Punish them and it all goes down hill from there.
A society cannot cure it's economic ills by lowering the top. Correcting these ills happens by lifting the bottom.
This is not done by offering endless supply of entitlements and giveaways.
The bottom is lifted by education, training and skill improvement.
It doesn't matter if a worker is a manual laborer. He or she can always learn to do their job better and more efficiently. This makes that worker more valuable to the employer and thus that employer will be more likely to reward that worker with higher wages.

 

[FactFinder]

Republicans are in trouble

This ***Independent*** says YUP!

 

[Dragon]

The government cannot 'help' the middle class by taking away assets from the top earners.

Yes, it can.

Like it or not, these are the job creators.

No, they're not. Consumers are the job creators. The rich are just the middlemen.

Punish them and it all goes down hill from there.

No, it doesn't. Our economy was at its best when the top marginal tax rate was above 90%.

A society cannot cure it's economic ills by lowering the top.

Yes, it can. See just above.

Correcting these ills happens by lifting the bottom.

Lifting the bottom is impossible without lowering the top.

This is not done by offering endless supply of entitlements and giveaways.

That's certainly not the best way, at least not by itself.

The bottom is lifted by education, training and skill improvement.

That helps, although "entitlements and giveaways" are necessary to accomplish it. On top of education and training, though, we also need unions. Otherwise, pay will not rise to match productivity.

It doesn't matter if a worker is a manual laborer. He or she can always learn to do their job better and more efficiently. This makes that worker more valuable to the employer and thus that employer will be more likely to reward that worker with higher wages.

Employers do not pay workers either what they can, or what they are worth. Employers pay workers what they have to. If the worker learns to do the job more efficiently, and does not have the bargaining power that comes with either a union or a labor shortage, the employer will simply take advantage of the improved productivity, pocketing all of the gains. Only if he must will he pay a reasonable share of those gains to the worker producing them.

 

[Listening]

The government cannot 'help' the middle class by taking away assets from the top earners.

Yes, it can.

Like it or not, these are the job creators.

No, they're not. Consumers are the job creators. The rich are just the middlemen.



No, it doesn't. Our economy was at its best when the top marginal tax rate was above 90%.



Yes, it can. See just above.



Lifting the bottom is impossible without lowering the top.



That's certainly not the best way, at least not by itself.

The bottom is lifted by education, training and skill improvement.

That helps, although "entitlements and giveaways" are necessary to accomplish it. On top of education and training, though, we also need unions. Otherwise, pay will not rise to match productivity.

It doesn't matter if a worker is a manual laborer. He or she can always learn to do their job better and more efficiently. This makes that worker more valuable to the employer and thus that employer will be more likely to reward that worker with higher wages.

Employers do not pay workers either what they can, or what they are worth. Employers pay workers what they have to. If the worker learns to do the job more efficiently, and does not have the bargaining power that comes with either a union or a labor shortage, the employer will simply take advantage of the improved productivity, pocketing all of the gains. Only if he must will he pay a reasonable share of those gains to the worker producing them.

Karl Marx would be proud.

If I was hooked to a printer, I'd spool this off and use it to wipe my ass.

 

[Unkotare]

The government cannot 'help' the middle class by taking away assets from the top earners.

Yes, it can.

Like it or not, these are the job creators.

No, they're not. Consumers are the job creators. The rich are just the middlemen..

You are an unbelievably stupid and ignorant little wannabe communist.

 

[Dragon]

Karl Marx would be proud.

If I was hooked to a printer, I'd spool this off and use it to wipe my ass.

When you have no coherent response to give, the intelligent thing is to say nothing.

Or, to put it another way, it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

What you did above was to repeat, without critical examination and without presenting any evidence in support, shibboleths of the economic right all of which are without foundation and utterly wrong. What I did was to call them into question. What you did in response to THAT was to demonstrate that you don't know what you're talking about, by resorting to insult and empty rhetoric rather than argument and evidence.

Thus, as I said, removing all doubt about your folly.

 

[Oldstyle]

The government cannot 'help' the middle class by taking away assets from the top earners.

Yes, it can.

Like it or not, these are the job creators.

No, they're not. Consumers are the job creators. The rich are just the middlemen.



No, it doesn't. Our economy was at its best when the top marginal tax rate was above 90%.



Yes, it can. See just above.



Lifting the bottom is impossible without lowering the top.



That's certainly not the best way, at least not by itself.

The bottom is lifted by education, training and skill improvement.

That helps, although "entitlements and giveaways" are necessary to accomplish it. On top of education and training, though, we also need unions. Otherwise, pay will not rise to match productivity.

It doesn't matter if a worker is a manual laborer. He or she can always learn to do their job better and more efficiently. This makes that worker more valuable to the employer and thus that employer will be more likely to reward that worker with higher wages.

Employers do not pay workers either what they can, or what they are worth. Employers pay workers what they have to. If the worker learns to do the job more efficiently, and does not have the bargaining power that comes with either a union or a labor shortage, the employer will simply take advantage of the improved productivity, pocketing all of the gains. Only if he must will he pay a reasonable share of those gains to the worker producing them.

I'd be more than happy to respond to your nonsense, Dragon.

First of all if the government removes capital from the top earners, those top earners cannot use that capital to create jobs. That hurts all those below them in the economic pyramid. Jobs are created by the private sector. Every time the government takes capital from the private sector to "redistribute" it, a large part of that capital is lost due to inefficiency and administrative costs. That's the nature of government.

Consumers cannot consume until someone MAKES something to consume. A business person has to decide that there is a potential demand for a product or service...invest capital in order to produce that product or provide that service...and then cross their fingers that they've figured correctly and that consumers will purchase their good or their service. Consumers are not the job makers. Jobs are made by the person that risks capital in hopes of making a profit.

If we were to raise our top marginal tax rate to 90% what little growth we are experiencing would vanish like a puff of smoke in a stiff breeze and we would instantly go back into a severe double dip recession. Even an uber-lib economist like Christina Romer admits that.

You have to lower the top to lift the bottom? Come on, that's ridiculous. If you're espousing a straight Communist system of economics then you would be correct in that assertion. If you want to stick with a Free Market system of economics then you could actually lift EVERYONE. Where is it written that because Warren Buffet makes a billion that a pipe fitter working for one of his successful companies cannot make more as well?

As for when pay rises? Pay rises when business is good and there is competition for the best workers. The better the economy the better pay workers will receive because the more demand there is for workers. You seem to think that if you just legislated pay raises for everyone that the economy would take off. Sorry but the economy doesn't work that way.

Employers will always pay employees more when they risk losing those employees to someone who WILL pay them more. That's how the free enterprise system works. If I have a great employee who's incredibly productive and I DON'T compensate him or her? I run the very real risk of losing them to my competition.

 

[Unkotare]

Don't bother. He's just another empty-headed kid who read the Cliffs Notes to The Communist Manifesto and now thinks he's achieved 'enlightenment.' Next semester he'll read something else and we'll be treated to a different 'truth.'