Republican’s VS. Democrat’s Health Care Plan

[Fraulein Hilda]

What did I do to incur the debt of paying for someone else's healthcare?

And that's from Mark Steyn, who is Canadian.

 

[driveby]

You just confirmed why the "conservative" party is part of the problem, not the solution. ME ME ME ME ME ME. I got mine, so fuck you. But then perhaps you're not really a true American, Frau. If not, then your comment is understandable.

People who think the government will give them good healthcare are being lied to. People who think government will control the cost of healthcare without rationing are being lied to.

What did I do to incur the debt of paying for your healthcare?

Just because YOU parrot the "bottomfeeder" Limbaugh-Fox bullshit doesn't make it so. For one thing, government sponsored health care will continue to be an exremely contentious issue in the halls of Congress, no matter which party is in the majority, so it's highly doubtful that your prediction of doom will EVER come to pass. Quit your bitching. The time has come to put some controls on runaway health costs in this country.

Can you clownshoes debate anything by sticking to the issue and without demonizing Limbaugh or Fox News ? .........

 

[auditor0007]

Government rigged the mortgage market in the name of making housing "affordable" and fucked that up badly. Why will government rigging the healthcare market be any different?

You are a pestilant whore. That said...The government was George Bush's. The "fucked up" was the criminal deregulation paid for by K-street parasites like yourself.

Single payer is the only answer. You should be satisfied that we the people get affordable health care for all without prosecuting you slime for fraud and conspiracy to commit murder in denying health care and causing the deaths of thousands of americans.

I actually would prefer Switzerland's system. It is private, cheaper than our current system, and the goverenment contriubution is much less than our own. What is different is that health insurance is mandatory. If you work, you must purchase a policy. If you don't make enough to afford the policy, then the goverenment subsidizes you so that you can afford it. Rates are determined by age. People are not charged more for having prior illnesses, but then everyone is paying for insurance their entire lives. Last of all, they have a great deal of choice as far as deductibles and services, but everyone must have a basic policy covering major medical.

While they're costs are higher than most other countries with universal care, they are still much less than our own.

 

[jillian]

Actually, it's about controlling costs. They are spiraling out of control in case you haven't noticed. Whether you like it or not, rationing will be part of the formula. It already is. Now they just ration who can receive care and who cannot. But it will get worse. When half the population can no longer afford health insurance, what do you think that will do to the rates of those who can? You really think that will make it cheaper and offer you better care, even if you manage a way to afford it?

They have already told women who had mastectomies that they had to get out of the hospital after 24 hours....

They have already refused to pay for life-saving treatments like bone marrow transplants saying they are "experimental" long after we know they work.

They have routinely refused to pay for "cosmetic" treatment like removal of facial tumors, breast reconstruction and a myriad of other treatments like organ transplants.... or they will refuse to pay for such transplants for older people or people who have other health issues, thus letting them die.

They pay for Viagra, though. Isn't that a hoot?

So I'm not really sure what they're talking about when they start to rant and rave about the evil guv'ment controlling health care.

... especially when they say stupid things like that there won't be a two-tiered system because it isn't "fair".

i figure to keep my doctors. but whatever.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

You can have all the healthcare you are willing to pay for, Jillian. You want somebody else to pay for it and stay as long as you want to?

 

[jillian]

You can have all the healthcare you are willing to pay for, Jillian. You want somebody else to pay for it and stay as long as you want to?

hey, that's life frau hilda... I'm paying for bush's war of choice in Iraq.

Now...how about responding to the points that were made that eviscerated yours instead of continuing your rant.

 

[MaggieMae]

If you don't like how I reply to your nonsense, then put me on ignore. It's interesting that someone who appears to be such a greedy, me-first-fuck-you holier-than-thou person...

See: Freudian projection. Basic Human Psychology 1: Neurosis, Projection and Freudian Projection

A REPUBLIC is a state or country that is not led by a hereditary monarch, in which the people (or at least a part of its people) have an impact on its government. The word 'republic' is derived from the Latin res publica which can be translated as "public thing".

A DEMOCRACY is a society in which all adults (the people) have easily accessible, meaningful, and effective ways:

--to participate in the decision-making processes of every organization that makes decisions or takes actions that affect them, and;

--to hold other individuals, and those in these organizations who are responsible for making decisions and taking actions, fully accountable if their decisions or actions violate fundamental human rights, or are dishonest, unethical, unfair, secretive, inefficient, unrepresentative, unresponsive or irresponsible, so that all organizations in the society are citizen-owned, citizen-controlled, and citizen-driven, and all individuals and organizations are held accountable for wrongdoing. [/I]

All of which oh-so conveniently, and not very cleverly, avoids Article 4, Section 4 of the Constitution, and the writings of the framers of that document, both Federalist and Anti-federalist.

We DO NOT live in a DEMOCRACY!

Ahem, James Madison, one of the "framers" of the Constitution, defined in Federalist 39 that a "republic" is a government which derives all its powers directly or indirectly from the great body of the people.

Every few years, the great body of the people get to nominate representatives for themselves at ELECTIONS. Duh...

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

Psst. It's Obama's war in Iraq, now.

And Afghanistan.

And Pakistan.

 

[Oddball]

While they're costs are higher than most other countries with universal care, they are still much less than our own.

Speaking of costs.....The expense of Lasik surgery has plummeted over the last several years, because no insurance pays for it and the clinics offering it have to compete to get business.

If only other aspects of the medical care system were as free from third-party payer interference.

 

[MaggieMae]

You just confirmed why the "conservative" party is part of the problem, not the solution. ME ME ME ME ME ME. I got mine, so fuck you. But then perhaps you're not really a true American, Frau. If not, then your comment is understandable.

People who think the government will give them good healthcare are being lied to. People who think government will control the cost of healthcare without rationing are being lied to.

What did I do to incur the debt of paying for your healthcare?

When you turn 65, you won't be paying for all of your healthcare any longer, or didn't you realize that. If everyone over 65 had to pay for their own healthcare, maybe 10% would be able to afford it. Everyone else would go without, and that would very likely include you unless you have a few million in the bank.

Actually, although you qualify for Social Security benefits at 65, Medicare doesn't kick in for two years after that.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

What did I do to incur the debt of paying for able-bodied Americans' healthcare?

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

While they're costs are higher than most other countries with universal care, they are still much less than our own.

Speaking of costs.....The expense of Lasik surgery has plummeted over the last several years, because no insurance pays for it and the clinics offering it have to compete to get business.

If only other aspects of the medical care system were as free from third-party payer interference.

Brilliant. You nailed it, sir.

 

[MaggieMae]

It does not make sense to fuck up the best system in the world just to insure a few million uninsured. Drag everyone else down. Give everyone the same coverage.

You just confirmed why the "conservative" party is part of the problem, not the solution. ME ME ME ME ME ME. I got mine, so fuck you. But then perhaps you're not really a true American, Frau. If not, then your comment is understandable.

So it's I got mine, you don't have yours, so I have to pay for yours too. Then eventually mine will be pushed out to where I have to accept a second rate system like yours. Hmmm, it hardly seems fair to me. It sounds like your saying me, me, me. Get a job that has benefits.LOL--Now we all KNOW you're full of shit! Like where might THOSE jobs exist anymore?

The whole premise is that before long, leaving things as they are, even YOU will not be able to afford adequate care. READ!!!! Even this article is four years old, and health insurance premiums have risen steadily since THEN!!

USATODAY.com - Health insurance premiums crash down on middle class

 

[MaggieMae]

The waiting list for knee replacement surgery is 18 months in Canada.

The waiting list for cancer treatment is 28 days. How long did Ted Kennedy wait? Ruth Bader Ginsburg?

They have entire bureacracies there dedicated to nothing more than managing waiting lists.

But everyone gets free healthcare.

I'd love to have my arthritic right knee replaced and be covered by the same insurance Ted and Ruth have. Your point? I have to wait until I can AFFORD it, which is mine.

 

[auditor0007]

While they're costs are higher than most other countries with universal care, they are still much less than our own.

Speaking of costs.....The expense of Lasik surgery has plummeted over the last several years, because no insurance pays for it and the clinics offering it have to compete to get business.

If only other aspects of the medical care system were as free from third-party payer interference.

I can see them advertising already. "Heart transplants only $599,999. Liver transplants only $349,999. We have the best rates. Got cancer? We have the best chemo treatment starting at $39,999."

 

[MaggieMae]

If someone is happy with their own pesonal health care insurance plan, THEY CAN KEEP IT. If you don’t have health insurance, you will have a choice of new, affordable health insurance options. You need to do some serious homework, girl.

Local Health Departments and the Challenge of Chronic Disease: Lessons From California

Wrong link. Sorry.
http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/issues/HealthCareFullPlan.pdf

Oh, Barack Obama says you can keep your doctor. How nice.

Yes, isn't it... Do you enjoy being dumbed down? Or just need to get the last word in by posting something silly?

We get that you're anti-Obama, anti-liberal, anti-anything that doesn't fit YOUR mold as one of the haves and screw the have-nots.

 

[jillian]

Psst. It's Obama's war in Iraq, now.

And Afghanistan.

And Pakistan.

achtung, frau blucher, someone has to clean up the mess. i wish we didn't still have to, but your boy made sure we'll be paying for his mistakes for a very long time.

i hope you're really proud.

now again... try to stick to the subject. cause i've yet to see you prove anyone wrong or even raise a relevant point. you do have a lot of righteous indignation, though.

 

[Oddball]

I can see them advertising already. "Heart transplants only $599,999. Liver transplants only $349,999. We have the best rates. Got cancer? We have the best chemo treatment starting at $39,999."

What would be wrong with that??

We have the least expensive food, clothing, and most for-the-dollar valuable housing in the world using just such a model.

 

[auditor0007]

People who think the government will give them good healthcare are being lied to. People who think government will control the cost of healthcare without rationing are being lied to.

What did I do to incur the debt of paying for your healthcare?

When you turn 65, you won't be paying for all of your healthcare any longer, or didn't you realize that. If everyone over 65 had to pay for their own healthcare, maybe 10% would be able to afford it. Everyone else would go without, and that would very likely include you unless you have a few million in the bank.

Actually, although you qualify for Social Security benefits at 65, Medicare doesn't kick in for two years after that.

You have that backwards. SS is not 67, although you can take reduced benefits as early as age 62. Medicare kicks in at 65.

 

[MaggieMae]

When no one can afford health care, the prices will drop.

Health care providers can't eat gauze.

What you can't seem to grasp is that no government solution rammed down peoples' throats...from either party...will work.

Rememember what happened when government tried to make the mortgage market "fair" and housing "affordable?"Yeah, don't get me started.

If every government solution hasn't "worked," we would be a banana republic, and you'd be fishing out of the same lake you piss in.

Banana republics have lots of government. And leaders who throw former leaders in jail. And busineses that only exist at the pleasure of the ruling class. And not much else.

Thanks for making my point. The majority of Haitians piss in the same water they drink from because the autocratic government doesn't give a shit about its citizens.