Remind us again how Health Care will be voluntary

[Oddball]

It's good enough for McCain and the rest of our Congresspeople, after all. I believe Americans - and American business - would love it.

Thanks for tossing out that most brain dead of brain dead arguments.

It's really easy to say that when 200+ million people are paying the medical benefits for 535 overdressed moochers.

Can't you even pretend to have an analytical thought before you post this dreck??

 

[Chris]

It's good enough for McCain and the rest of our Congresspeople, after all. I believe Americans - and American business - would love it.

Thanks for tossing out that most brain dead of brain dead arguments.

It's really easy to say that when 200+ million people are paying the medical benefits for 535 overdressed moochers.

Can't you even pretend to have an analytical thought before you post this dreck??

Personal insults are all you have. Pathetic.

Universal healthcare is cheaper and better.

That is why every other Western democracy has it.

 

[elvis]

It's good enough for McCain and the rest of our Congresspeople, after all. I believe Americans - and American business - would love it.

Thanks for tossing out that most brain dead of brain dead arguments.

It's really easy to say that when 200+ million people are paying the medical benefits for 535 overdressed moochers.

Can't you even pretend to have an analytical thought before you post this dreck??

Personal insults are all you have. Pathetic.

Universal healthcare is cheaper and better.

That is why every other Western democracy has it.

It's also the reason people wait hours instead of minutes in those countries. and why there is a shortage of medical personnel and equipment in those countries.

 

[Chris]

Thanks for tossing out that most brain dead of brain dead arguments.

It's really easy to say that when 200+ million people are paying the medical benefits for 535 overdressed moochers.

Can't you even pretend to have an analytical thought before you post this dreck??

Personal insults are all you have. Pathetic.

Universal healthcare is cheaper and better.

That is why every other Western democracy has it.

It's also the reason people wait hours instead of minutes in those countries. and why there is a shortage of medical personnel and equipment in those countries.

No, the other countries do a good job with healthcare and cover everyone, because a single payer system is more efficient than having 150 different insurance companies.

That is why American doctors are now in favor of universal healthcare. In fact the whole world and most Americans get it, except for a few right wing nuts.

 

[elvis]

Personal insults are all you have. Pathetic.

Universal healthcare is cheaper and better.

That is why every other Western democracy has it.

It's also the reason people wait hours instead of minutes in those countries. and why there is a shortage of medical personnel and equipment in those countries.

No, the other countries do a good job with healthcare and cover everyone, because a single payer system is more efficient than having 150 different insurance companies.

That is why American doctors are now in favor of universal healthcare. In fact the whole world and most Americans get it, except for a few right wing nuts.

you know nothing about economics. That's why everyone on here treats you like the douchebag that you are.

 

[Chris]

It's also the reason people wait hours instead of minutes in those countries. and why there is a shortage of medical personnel and equipment in those countries.

No, the other countries do a good job with healthcare and cover everyone, because a single payer system is more efficient than having 150 different insurance companies.

That is why American doctors are now in favor of universal healthcare. In fact the whole world and most Americans get it, except for a few right wing nuts.

you know nothing about economics. That's why everyone on here treats you like the douchebag that you are.

Like I said, everybody in the world gets it, except for the right in America.

That is why every other Western democracy has universal healthcare, and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare. The Germans have had it since 1886!

 

[elvis]

No, the other countries do a good job with healthcare and cover everyone, because a single payer system is more efficient than having 150 different insurance companies.

That is why American doctors are now in favor of universal healthcare. In fact the whole world and most Americans get it, except for a few right wing nuts.

you know nothing about economics. That's why everyone on here treats you like the douchebag that you are.

Like I said, everybody in the world gets it, except for the right in America.

That is why every other Western democracy has universal healthcare, and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare. The Germans have had it since 1886!

hope you like waiting for hours instead of minutes, having doctor shortages, and having medical equipment shortages.

 

[Soaring]

I see absolutely no reason to change what we already have as healthcare. If you are not lazy, or depend on welfare for a free ride, you can get a decent healthcare insurance program from just about any company, and you make easy payments per month that don't break the bank. What Obama is proposing is free health care for his lazy assed black people who aren't motivated enough to get an education and work for a living, but rely on us who do have the impetus to get ahead in life and get an education and work for a living to furnish the funds to take care of their health needs. That's nothing more than socialism. That breeds nothing more than lazy and unmotivated people who add nothing to our society.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Mythbusting: Universal Health Care in other countries (Japan, with costs!) | Guaranteed Healthcare

I don't think I even spend 15 minutes a month on managing employee health insurance and I don't know of anyone who has ever gone to the doctor in Japan afraid they can't afford it. I have never heard of anyone going bankrupt as a result of a medical emergency.

Japan pays less per capita (approx. 40% less) than America and still manages to cover everyone. Oh, and drug prices are lower, too. That'll have to wait for another post though.

I hope this information was useful. I'm a huge fan of Univeral Health Care and like the Japanese system's transparency and ease-of-use. Americans deserve this sort of health care. It's good enough for McCain and the rest of our Congresspeople, after all. I believe Americans - and American business - would love it.

Keep up with the times, Japan's health care is so broken hospitals are REFUSING to admit sick people and not just one hospital but all of them. There were numerous stories earlier in the year and last year about Japanese citizens DYING because no hospital would admit them.

 

[Harry Dresden]

If this plan leads to the death of the insurance companies, I'm all for it.

If it simple subsidizes the system we have now, it is a mistake.

A single payer plan is the best and most efficient system.

So ... you are all for giving all the power over your life to one entity without choice ...


... and paying more than five times what you do now, just in taxes instead of directly.

thats what the idiot is saying KK....aint he wonderful...

 

[Harry Dresden]

Sorry, honey, get your facts straight.

Every other Western democracy has a single payer system, and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare. Why? Because our system is incredible inefficient and greedy. It is based on making money off of sick people, NOT keeping people healthy. How perverse is that?

You really need to do some reading about the rest of the world. I suggest you start with this...

Universal health care - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

why the hell dont you get some new facts .....you have said this exact same thing at least 61 times ....got anything new fuckhead?

 

[Harry Dresden]

Sorry, honey, get your facts straight.

Every other Western democracy has a single payer system, and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare. Why? Because our system is incredible inefficient and greedy. It is based on making money off of sick people, NOT keeping people healthy. How perverse is that?

You really need to do some reading about the rest of the world. I suggest you start with this...

Universal health care - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

those countries have enjoyed double-digit unemployment for the last 15 years, dumbfuck.

The unemployment rate in Japan is 5%, dumbfuck.

Do you ever research anything?

and it went up 25% in the last year and is expected to keep rising....8-9%,possibly 10 is a probable forcast for this time next year if things keep going the way it is......read the whole article Chrissy not just what you wanna see....

 

[Harry Dresden]

KK, I knew you wouldn't do any reading about the rest of the world.

Better to remain ignorant, eh?

I know a lot more about the "rest of the world" than you do.

Hardly.

You don't seem to know anything except to parrot the right.

A single payer system is the best system there is. It is cheaper and more fair and I pray one day we will have one. Although the ignorance is strong against it.

and you dont parrot the left?.....fucking hypocrite....

 

[Harry Dresden]

It's also the reason people wait hours instead of minutes in those countries. and why there is a shortage of medical personnel and equipment in those countries.

No, the other countries do a good job with healthcare and cover everyone, because a single payer system is more efficient than having 150 different insurance companies.

That is why American doctors are now in favor of universal healthcare. In fact the whole world and most Americans get it, except for a few right wing nuts.

you know nothing about economics. That's why everyone on here treats you like the douchebag that you are.

he watches Moores movie every night.....and then parrots him here....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Mythbusting: Universal Health Care in other countries (Japan, with costs!) | Guaranteed Healthcare

I don't think I even spend 15 minutes a month on managing employee health insurance and I don't know of anyone who has ever gone to the doctor in Japan afraid they can't afford it. I have never heard of anyone going bankrupt as a result of a medical emergency.

Japan pays less per capita (approx. 40% less) than America and still manages to cover everyone. Oh, and drug prices are lower, too. That'll have to wait for another post though.

I hope this information was useful. I'm a huge fan of Univeral Health Care and like the Japanese system's transparency and ease-of-use. Americans deserve this sort of health care. It's good enough for McCain and the rest of our Congresspeople, after all. I believe Americans - and American business - would love it.

Keep up with the times, Japan's health care is so broken hospitals are REFUSING to admit sick people and not just one hospital but all of them. There were numerous stories earlier in the year and last year about Japanese citizens DYING because no hospital would admit them.

Dildo will not read what doesnt go along with his views RGS.....

 

[Oddball]

It's good enough for McCain and the rest of our Congresspeople, after all. I believe Americans - and American business - would love it.

Thanks for tossing out that most brain dead of brain dead arguments.

It's really easy to say that when 200+ million people are paying the medical benefits for 535 overdressed moochers.

Can't you even pretend to have an analytical thought before you post this dreck??

Personal insults are all you have. Pathetic.

Universal healthcare is cheaper and better.

That is why every other Western democracy has it.

They aren't all I have....Just all I care to **ahem** "invest" on stone meatheads, who do next to nothing more than spew the same limited litany of platitudes, slogans, and talking points.

Speaking of pathetic.

 

[Chris]

you know nothing about economics. That's why everyone on here treats you like the douchebag that you are.

Like I said, everybody in the world gets it, except for the right in America.

That is why every other Western democracy has universal healthcare, and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare. The Germans have had it since 1886!

hope you like waiting for hours instead of minutes, having doctor shortages, and having medical equipment shortages.

Typical scare tactics.

You will still chose your doctor, and doctors will still be well paid, so there will be no shortage.

 

[Chris]

Mythbusting Canadian Health Care -- Part I | OurFuture.org --

Wait times in Canada are horrendous.
True and False again -- it depends on which province you live in, and what's wrong with you. Canada's health care system runs on federal guidelines that ensure uniform standards of care, but each territory and province administers its own program. Some provinces don't plan their facilities well enough; in those, you can have waits. Some do better. As a general rule, the farther north you live, the harder it is to get to care, simply because the doctors and hospitals are concentrated in the south. But that's just as true in any rural county in the U.S.

You can hear the bitching about it no matter where you live, though. The percentage of Canadians who'd consider giving up their beloved system consistently languishes in the single digits. A few years ago, a TV show asked Canadians to name the Greatest Canadian in history; and in a broad national consensus, they gave the honor to Tommy Douglas, the Saskatchewan premier who is considered the father of the country's health care system. (And no, it had nothing to do with the fact that he was also Kiefer Sutherland's grandfather.). In spite of that, though, grousing about health care is still unofficially Canada's third national sport after curling and hockey.

And for the country's newspapers, it's a prime watchdogging opportunity. Any little thing goes sideways at the local hospital, and it's on the front pages the next day. Those kinds of stories sell papers, because everyone is invested in that system and has a personal stake in how well it functions. The American system might benefit from this kind of constant scrutiny, because it's certainly one of the things that keeps the quality high. But it also makes people think it's far worse than it is.

Critics should be reminded that the American system is not exactly instant-on, either. When I lived in California, I had excellent insurance, and got my care through one of the best university-based systems in the nation. Yet I routinely had to wait anywhere from six to twelve weeks to get in to see a specialist. Non-emergency surgical waits could be anywhere from four weeks to four months. After two years in the BC system, I'm finding the experience to be pretty much comparable, and often better. The notable exception is MRIs, which were easy in California, but can take many months to get here. (It's the number one thing people go over the border for.) Other than that, urban Canadians get care about as fast as urban Americans do.

4. You have to wait forever to get a family doctor.
False for the vast majority of Canadians, but True for a few. Again, it all depends on where you live. I live in suburban Vancouver, and there are any number of first-rate GPs in my neighborhood who are taking new patients. If you don't have a working relationship with one, but need to see a doctor now, there are 24-hour urgent care clinics in most neighborhoods that will usually get you in and out on the minor stuff in under an hour.

It is, absolutely, harder to get to a doctor if you live out in a small town, or up in the territories. But that's just as true in the U.S. -- and in America, the government won't cover the airfare for rural folk to come down to the city for needed treatment, which all the provincial plans do.

 

[Chris]

Mythbusting Canadian Health Care -- Part I | OurFuture.org --

Doctors in Canada do make less than their US counterparts. But they also have lower overhead, and usually much better working conditions. A few reasons for this:

First, as noted, they don't have to charge higher fees to cover the salary of a full-time staffer to deal with over a hundred different insurers, all of whom are bent on denying care whenever possible. In fact, most Canadian doctors get by quite nicely with just one assistant, who cheerfully handles the phones, mail, scheduling, patient reception, stocking, filing, and billing all by herself in the course of a standard workday.

Second, they don't have to spend several hours every day on the phone cajoling insurance company bean counters into doing the right thing by their patients. My doctor in California worked a 70-hour week: 35 hours seeing patients, and another 35 hours on the phone arguing with insurance companies. My Canadian doctor, on the other hand, works a 35-hour week, period. She files her invoices online, and the vast majority are simply paid -- quietly, quickly, and without hassle. There is no runaround. There are no fights. Appointments aren't interrupted by vexing phone calls. Care is seldom denied (because everybody knows the rules). She gets her checks on time, sees her patients on schedule, takes Thursdays off, and gets home in time for dinner.

One unsurprising side effect of all this is that the doctors I see here are, to a person, more focused, more relaxed, more generous with their time, more up-to-date in their specialties, and overall much less distracted from the real work of doctoring. You don't realize how much stress the American doctor-insurer fights put on the day-to-day quality of care until you see doctors who don't operate under that stress, because they never have to fight those battles at all. Amazingly: they seem to enjoy their jobs.
Third: The average American medical student graduates $140,000 in hock. The average Canadian doctor's debt is roughly half that.

Finally, Canadian doctors pay lower malpractice insurance fees. When paying for health care constitutes a one of a family's major expenses, expectations tend to run very high. A doctor's mistake not only damages the body; it may very well throw a middle-class family permanently into the ranks of the working poor, and render the victim uninsurable for life. With so much at stake, it's no wonder people are quick to rush to court for redress.

Canadians are far less likely to sue in the first place, since they're not having to absorb devastating financial losses in addition to any physical losses when something goes awry. The cost of the damaging treatment will be covered. So will the cost of fixing it. And, no matter what happens, the victim will remain insured for life. When lawsuits do occur, the awards don't have to include coverage for future medical costs, which reduces the insurance company's liability.

 

[elvis]

Mythbusting Canadian Health Care -- Part I | OurFuture.org --

Wait times in Canada are horrendous.
True and False again -- it depends on which province you live in, and what's wrong with you. Canada's health care system runs on federal guidelines that ensure uniform standards of care, but each territory and province administers its own program. Some provinces don't plan their facilities well enough; in those, you can have waits. Some do better. As a general rule, the farther north you live, the harder it is to get to care, simply because the doctors and hospitals are concentrated in the south. But that's just as true in any rural county in the U.S.

You can hear the bitching about it no matter where you live, though. The percentage of Canadians who'd consider giving up their beloved system consistently languishes in the single digits. A few years ago, a TV show asked Canadians to name the Greatest Canadian in history; and in a broad national consensus, they gave the honor to Tommy Douglas, the Saskatchewan premier who is considered the father of the country's health care system. (And no, it had nothing to do with the fact that he was also Kiefer Sutherland's grandfather.). In spite of that, though, grousing about health care is still unofficially Canada's third national sport after curling and hockey.

And for the country's newspapers, it's a prime watchdogging opportunity. Any little thing goes sideways at the local hospital, and it's on the front pages the next day. Those kinds of stories sell papers, because everyone is invested in that system and has a personal stake in how well it functions. The American system might benefit from this kind of constant scrutiny, because it's certainly one of the things that keeps the quality high. But it also makes people think it's far worse than it is.

Critics should be reminded that the American system is not exactly instant-on, either. When I lived in California, I had excellent insurance, and got my care through one of the best university-based systems in the nation. Yet I routinely had to wait anywhere from six to twelve weeks to get in to see a specialist. Non-emergency surgical waits could be anywhere from four weeks to four months. After two years in the BC system, I'm finding the experience to be pretty much comparable, and often better. The notable exception is MRIs, which were easy in California, but can take many months to get here. (It's the number one thing people go over the border for.) Other than that, urban Canadians get care about as fast as urban Americans do.

4. You have to wait forever to get a family doctor.
False for the vast majority of Canadians, but True for a few. Again, it all depends on where you live. I live in suburban Vancouver, and there are any number of first-rate GPs in my neighborhood who are taking new patients. If you don't have a working relationship with one, but need to see a doctor now, there are 24-hour urgent care clinics in most neighborhoods that will usually get you in and out on the minor stuff in under an hour.

It is, absolutely, harder to get to a doctor if you live out in a small town, or up in the territories. But that's just as true in the U.S. -- and in America, the government won't cover the airfare for rural folk to come down to the city for needed treatment, which all the provincial plans do.

socialism doesn't work, no matter how many socialist websites you quote.