Remember that littlecomment pelosi made about the healthcare bill?

[bigrebnc1775]

Is she saying they cannot see the bill until after it's voted on?

Obviously she's not, as in early March when she made those remarks the text of the primary legislation, H.R. 3590, had been sitting on THOMAS and available for public viewing for several months.

What did she say?

“We have to do this in partnership, and I wanted to bring up to date on where we see it from here. The final health care legislation that will soon be passed by Congress will deliver successful reform at the local level. It will offer paid for investments that will improve health care services and coverage for millions more Americans. It will make significant investments in innovation, prevention, wellness and offer robust support for public health infrastructure. It will dramatically expand investments into community health centers. That means a dramatic expansion in the number of patients community health centers can see and ultimately healthier communities. Our bill will significantly reduce uncompensated care for hospitals.

“You’ve heard about the controversies within the bill, the process about the bill, one or the other. But I don’t know if you have heard that it is legislation for the future, not just about health care for America, but about a healthier America, where preventive care is not something that you have to pay a deductible for or out of pocket. Prevention, prevention, prevention—it’s about diet, not diabetes. It’s going to be very, very exciting.

“But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.​

Is this ambiguous? She's clearly pointing out that attention focused heavily on 1) BS controversies (death panels or alleged subsidies to illegals or any number of made-up stories) and 2) process stories. Real issues, particular those that would be of interest to her audience (again, local officials, i.e. people who have to deal with public health and safety net health issues), like community health center expansions or enhancements of local capabilities to deal with infectious diseases or prevention provisions weren't part of the national discussion.

Again, you provided the link to the context--how is this still unclear to you?

The Healthcare Insurance Reform Bill was passed in its 2000+ page format. The regulations that will support the law will probably increase those pages by 10 times. That is what she was talking about unless you are going to have us believe she is an utter imbecile.

Presumably, she knows what happens to a law when it is passed and put into action.

There is the possibility that she does not and perhaps she is as astonished as the rest of us on how the Congress works.

There is the possibility that she does not and perhaps she is as astonished as the rest of us on how the Congress works

OH she knows how congress works, I think she was playing the part of a dictator.

 

[Old Rocks]

OK, dips. Spin it any way you want. The bill is now the law. It passed. And you haven't the 2/3 to repeal it.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

OK, dips. Spin it any way you want. The bill is now the law. It passed. And you haven't the 2/3 to repeal it.

Spin what? Are you trying to say someone is spining what pelosi said? I really cannot see how anyone can spin what she said into something else.

One of two things happen when she said it
They are stupid for signing some thing they did not know anything about
or
They are being arrogant and dictators
"you can't see it until we have made it a law"
But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.
Take your pick

 

[Sarah G]

Some people cannot get past the out of context spin that right wing pundits spew.

an example from a spun leftist pundit. president Bush told the American people: "you are with the terrorists".

This is why I and maybe millions of Americans take what they say with a grain of salt. They spin the simplest things and use it as talking points for years.

Mindless. Even they don't know what they are saying.

 

[Old Rocks]

OK, dips. Spin it any way you want. The bill is now the law. It passed. And you haven't the 2/3 to repeal it.

Spin what? Are you trying to say someone is spining what pelosi said? I really cannot see how anyone can spin what she said into something else.

One of two things happen when she said it
They are stupid for signing some thing they did not know anything about
or
They are being arrogant and dictators
"you can't see it until we have made it a law"
But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.
Take your pick

Come on, dingleberry. Pelosi passed the bill. You cannot change that. She was a very successful Speaker. Flap yap all you wish, the Bill is the law. And even Boehner is backing away from trying to repeal it.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

OK, dips. Spin it any way you want. The bill is now the law. It passed. And you haven't the 2/3 to repeal it.

Spin what? Are you trying to say someone is spining what pelosi said? I really cannot see how anyone can spin what she said into something else.

One of two things happen when she said it
They are stupid for signing some thing they did not know anything about
or
They are being arrogant and dictators
"you can't see it until we have made it a law"
But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.
Take your pick

Come on, dingleberry. Pelosi passed the bill. You cannot change that. She was a very successful Speaker. Flap yap all you wish, the Bill is the law. And even Boehner is backing away from trying to repeal it.

Now look at who is spinning something.

 

[Old Rocks]

No need to spin. We passed a Health Care Bill that was far too weak, but was all that we could get for now. It was lied about by people like you continously, and the President and the Congressional Democrats justly got their asses kicked for not vigorously defending it, and promising to make it better.

 

[WillowTree]

I know most remeber it some would love to forget it and some love using it. Well let's take a look at what she said.

But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.

I actually think she was taunting the American people. Because the we she is talking about is the government, and the you are the people.

The government is the only body that can vote on legislation and the people cannot see it until allowed by the government

But we ( the government) have to pass the bill so that you (the people) can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.

I think she knew and congress knew exactly what was in the bill and she was rubbing it in the faces of the American people.
What do you think?

I think I hate that Skank. That's what I think.

 

[Full-Auto]

No need to spin. We passed a Health Care Bill that was far too weak, but was all that we could get for now. It was lied about by people like you continously, and the President and the Congressional Democrats justly got their asses kicked for not vigorously defending it, and promising to make it better.

No lies were ever necessary.

Death panels, instead we have a dept head making the decisions. Age will be a determining factor on what care gets paid for.

It fines the people for not carrying democrat care.

It treats small contractors of 5 employees as if they were the size of GM. Meaning the building trade will stay away from hiring anyone with a family due to possible fines.

You are a damn idiot when it comes to this. Should I go on about the 1099s?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

No need to spin. We passed a Health Care Bill that was far too weak, but was all that we could get for now. It was lied about by people like you continously, and the President and the Congressional Democrats justly got their asses kicked for not vigorously defending it, and promising to make it better.

A couplee of things I woiuld like to address with your comment
1. What spin?
"But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy."
What was she impling when she said it?

2. Who are the we you are talking about? Did you have anything to do with the legislation of this law?

3. the only way they could make it better is repeal or not voting for passage.

 

[cutter]

is she saying they cannot see the bill until after it's voted on?

no dipshit, she's saying that she can't tell you what's going to be in a bill that is still being amended. You have to wait till the bill actually passes to know what's going to be in it.

Duh.

what kind of stupid way is that to run a government?

 

[Greenbeard]

The fact remains that she is saying quite plainly that the bill needs to be passed BEFORE what is in the bill will be revealed.

That she is speaking to a group intimately familiar with the system and the problems presented by that system is even more damning. These people are experts and she is saying that not even they could understand what is happening and that she cannot explain it to them or that she will not reveal it to them.

Cannot explain it them? It's clear what she's talking about because she uses specific examples in her speech:

"The final health care legislation that will soon be passed by Congress will deliver successful reform at the local level. It will offer paid for investments that will improve health care services and coverage for millions more Americans. It will make significant investments in innovation, prevention, wellness and offer robust support for public health infrastructure. It will dramatically expand investments into community health centers. That means a dramatic expansion in the number of patients community health centers can see and ultimately healthier communities. Our bill will significantly reduce uncompensated care for hospitals. [...] But I don’t know if you have heard that it is legislation for the future, not just about health care for America, but about a healthier America, where preventive care is not something that you have to pay a deductible for or out of pocket. Prevention, prevention, prevention—it’s about diet, not diabetes. It’s going to be very, very exciting. "​

It has nothing to do with "saying that not even they could understand what is happening and that she cannot explain it to them or that she will not reveal it to them." I'm still unclear why this is so difficult for you. You may not remember the last two years but we had protesters crashing town hall meetings based on on bogus claims, we had a member of Congress shout down the President during remarks to a joint session based on a false point that Congressman's party was pushing, we had a national discussion of "death panels" that don't exist, we had long bullshit lists circulating about the health care proposals, and so on. By March of this year, there was (and in many areas, still is) a cloud of bullshit hovering around these proposals because the other side decided to best way to defeat them wasn't with a counterargument or cogent counterproposal, but simply by lying about what they are. Which leads to Pelosi's remarks: the only way to definitively separate the wheat from the chaff by that point was via implementation.

It has nothing to do with keeping the law's contents secret. Besides the actual text of the legislation being readily available, extremely good comprehensive summaries were available from various sources. Information about every piece of the legislation was publicly available at that point, but most people (and, yes, that includes county officials who have other things to do) didn't bother to seek out comprehensive information. In fact, quite a few people still haven't.

Words mean things. She is saying that the people who work with the system know less than she does and that they just need to trust her.

Know less than she does about what? Federal legislation? I would imagine the Speaker of the House knows more about pending legislation than just about anyone else, yes.

The Healthcare Insurance Reform Bill was passed in its 2000+ page format. The regulations that will support the law will probably increase those pages by 10 times. That is what she was talking about unless you are going to have us believe she is an utter imbecile.

Yes, clearly the "fog of controversy" is a reference to the page count. Get fucking real.

No lies were ever necessary.

Death panels, instead we have a dept head making the decisions. Age will be a determining factor on what care gets paid for.

As in, age remains the determining factor for Medicare eligibility?

It treats small contractors of 5 employees as if they were the size of GM. Meaning the building trade will stay away from hiring anyone with a family due to possible fines.

What fines?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

OK, dips. Spin it any way you want. The bill is now the law. It passed. And you haven't the 2/3 to repeal it.

Spin what? Are you trying to say someone is spining what pelosi said? I really cannot see how anyone can spin what she said into something else.

One of two things happen when she said it
They are stupid for signing some thing they did not know anything about
or
They are being arrogant and dictators
"you can't see it until we have made it a law"
But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.
Take your pick

Come on, dingleberry. Pelosi passed the bill. You cannot change that. She was a very successful Speaker. Flap yap all you wish, the Bill is the law. And even Boehner is backing away from trying to repeal it.

dipshit I suspect you are the type of person who would eat those little balls of shit.

Now
One of two things happen when she said it
They are stupid for signing some thing they did not know anything about
or
They are being arrogant and dictators
"you can't see it until we have made it a law"
But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.
Take your pick

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The fact remains that she is saying quite plainly that the bill needs to be passed BEFORE what is in the bill will be revealed.

That she is speaking to a group intimately familiar with the system and the problems presented by that system is even more damning. These people are experts and she is saying that not even they could understand what is happening and that she cannot explain it to them or that she will not reveal it to them.

Cannot explain it them? It's clear what she's talking about because she uses specific examples in her speech:

"The final health care legislation that will soon be passed by Congress will deliver successful reform at the local level. It will offer paid for investments that will improve health care services and coverage for millions more Americans. It will make significant investments in innovation, prevention, wellness and offer robust support for public health infrastructure. It will dramatically expand investments into community health centers. That means a dramatic expansion in the number of patients community health centers can see and ultimately healthier communities. Our bill will significantly reduce uncompensated care for hospitals. [...] But I don’t know if you have heard that it is legislation for the future, not just about health care for America, but about a healthier America, where preventive care is not something that you have to pay a deductible for or out of pocket. Prevention, prevention, prevention—it’s about diet, not diabetes. It’s going to be very, very exciting. "​

It has nothing to do with "saying that not even they could understand what is happening and that she cannot explain it to them or that she will not reveal it to them." I'm still unclear why this is so difficult for you. You may not remember the last two years but we had protesters crashing town hall meetings based on on bogus claims, we had a member of Congress shout down the President during remarks to a joint session based on a false point that Congressman's party was pushing, we had a national discussion of "death panels" that don't exist, we had long bullshit lists circulating about the health care proposals, and so on. By March of this year, there was (and in many areas, still is) a cloud of bullshit hovering around these proposals because the other side decided to best way to defeat them wasn't with a counterargument or cogent counterproposal, but simply by lying about what they are. Which leads to Pelosi's remarks: the only way to definitively separate the wheat from the chaff by that point was via implementation.

It has nothing to do with keeping the law's contents secret. Besides the actual text of the legislation being readily available, extremely good comprehensive summaries were available from various sources. Information about every piece of the legislation was publicly available at that point, but most people (and, yes, that includes county officials who have other things to do) didn't bother to seek out comprehensive information. In fact, quite a few people still haven't.

Words mean things. She is saying that the people who work with the system know less than she does and that they just need to trust her.

Know less than she does about what? Federal legislation? I would imagine the Speaker of the House knows more about pending legislation than just about anyone else, yes.



Yes, clearly the "fog of controversy" is a reference to the page count. Get fucking real.

No lies were ever necessary.

Death panels, instead we have a dept head making the decisions. Age will be a determining factor on what care gets paid for.

As in, age remains the determining factor for Medicare eligibility?

It treats small contractors of 5 employees as if they were the size of GM. Meaning the building trade will stay away from hiring anyone with a family due to possible fines.

What fines?

Doiuble talk thats all yu are doing
Clear and simple
One of two things happen when she said it
They are stupid for signing some thing they did not know anything about
or
They are being arrogant and dictators
"you can't see it until we have made it a law"
But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.
Take your pick

Edited to point out the fact that you do not know what in th hell you are talking about

What fines

WHAT FINE? Go away leave this discussion if you are not aware tht there will be fines imposed.

 

[code1211]

No need to spin. We passed a Health Care Bill that was far too weak, but was all that we could get for now. It was lied about by people like you continously, and the President and the Congressional Democrats justly got their asses kicked for not vigorously defending it, and promising to make it better.

So you are saying that this thing will really do what they said it would do? Change the cost curve of Healthcare downwward despite the FACT that it has already turned that curve upward?

Reduce the costs of Healthcare Insurance despite the FACT that Healthcare insurance is already more costly than it was?

Make Healthcare insurance more available despite the FACT that Healthcare Insurance is already less available than it was before.

Oh! And lest we forget, 500 Billion dollars worth of Medicare is now cancelled and the Doc fix which is only one gimmick to pretend that the increased costs are covered is already being cancelled.

Finally, Nancy Pelosi saying that costs would never go up and benefits would never go down.

None of this is spin. All of this is actual reality. The bill was passed using political deals, lies and threats. The American people see it. The vote shows that they did. We know Pelosi lied from the outset and we know that the pipe dream is a swindle.

I wonder how the thing will work if the House will not approve the cash...

 

[code1211]

The fact remains that she is saying quite plainly that the bill needs to be passed BEFORE what is in the bill will be revealed.

That she is speaking to a group intimately familiar with the system and the problems presented by that system is even more damning. These people are experts and she is saying that not even they could understand what is happening and that she cannot explain it to them or that she will not reveal it to them.

Cannot explain it them? It's clear what she's talking about because she uses specific examples in her speech:

"The final health care legislation that will soon be passed by Congress will deliver successful reform at the local level. It will offer paid for investments that will improve health care services and coverage for millions more Americans. It will make significant investments in innovation, prevention, wellness and offer robust support for public health infrastructure. It will dramatically expand investments into community health centers. That means a dramatic expansion in the number of patients community health centers can see and ultimately healthier communities. Our bill will significantly reduce uncompensated care for hospitals. [...] But I don’t know if you have heard that it is legislation for the future, not just about health care for America, but about a healthier America, where preventive care is not something that you have to pay a deductible for or out of pocket. Prevention, prevention, prevention—it’s about diet, not diabetes. It’s going to be very, very exciting. "​

It has nothing to do with "saying that not even they could understand what is happening and that she cannot explain it to them or that she will not reveal it to them." I'm still unclear why this is so difficult for you. You may not remember the last two years but we had protesters crashing town hall meetings based on on bogus claims, we had a member of Congress shout down the President during remarks to a joint session based on a false point that Congressman's party was pushing, we had a national discussion of "death panels" that don't exist, we had long bullshit lists circulating about the health care proposals, and so on. By March of this year, there was (and in many areas, still is) a cloud of bullshit hovering around these proposals because the other side decided to best way to defeat them wasn't with a counterargument or cogent counterproposal, but simply by lying about what they are. Which leads to Pelosi's remarks: the only way to definitively separate the wheat from the chaff by that point was via implementation.

It has nothing to do with keeping the law's contents secret. Besides the actual text of the legislation being readily available, extremely good comprehensive summaries were available from various sources. Information about every piece of the legislation was publicly available at that point, but most people (and, yes, that includes county officials who have other things to do) didn't bother to seek out comprehensive information. In fact, quite a few people still haven't.

Words mean things. She is saying that the people who work with the system know less than she does and that they just need to trust her.

Know less than she does about what? Federal legislation? I would imagine the Speaker of the House knows more about pending legislation than just about anyone else, yes.



Yes, clearly the "fog of controversy" is a reference to the page count. Get fucking real.

No lies were ever necessary.

Death panels, instead we have a dept head making the decisions. Age will be a determining factor on what care gets paid for.

As in, age remains the determining factor for Medicare eligibility?

It treats small contractors of 5 employees as if they were the size of GM. Meaning the building trade will stay away from hiring anyone with a family due to possible fines.

What fines?

So...

You're saying what she meant when she said that we must pass it for you to know what in it, she meant that what's in it is very clear and you all know exactly what's in it so I don't need to expain it further? Now, excuse me so I can close the door on the back room and creat the rest of this thing.

What planet are you from?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The fact remains that she is saying quite plainly that the bill needs to be passed BEFORE what is in the bill will be revealed.

That she is speaking to a group intimately familiar with the system and the problems presented by that system is even more damning. These people are experts and she is saying that not even they could understand what is happening and that she cannot explain it to them or that she will not reveal it to them.

Cannot explain it them? It's clear what she's talking about because she uses specific examples in her speech:

"The final health care legislation that will soon be passed by Congress will deliver successful reform at the local level. It will offer paid for investments that will improve health care services and coverage for millions more Americans. It will make significant investments in innovation, prevention, wellness and offer robust support for public health infrastructure. It will dramatically expand investments into community health centers. That means a dramatic expansion in the number of patients community health centers can see and ultimately healthier communities. Our bill will significantly reduce uncompensated care for hospitals. [...] But I don’t know if you have heard that it is legislation for the future, not just about health care for America, but about a healthier America, where preventive care is not something that you have to pay a deductible for or out of pocket. Prevention, prevention, prevention—it’s about diet, not diabetes. It’s going to be very, very exciting. "​

It has nothing to do with "saying that not even they could understand what is happening and that she cannot explain it to them or that she will not reveal it to them." I'm still unclear why this is so difficult for you. You may not remember the last two years but we had protesters crashing town hall meetings based on on bogus claims, we had a member of Congress shout down the President during remarks to a joint session based on a false point that Congressman's party was pushing, we had a national discussion of "death panels" that don't exist, we had long bullshit lists circulating about the health care proposals, and so on. By March of this year, there was (and in many areas, still is) a cloud of bullshit hovering around these proposals because the other side decided to best way to defeat them wasn't with a counterargument or cogent counterproposal, but simply by lying about what they are. Which leads to Pelosi's remarks: the only way to definitively separate the wheat from the chaff by that point was via implementation.

It has nothing to do with keeping the law's contents secret. Besides the actual text of the legislation being readily available, extremely good comprehensive summaries were available from various sources. Information about every piece of the legislation was publicly available at that point, but most people (and, yes, that includes county officials who have other things to do) didn't bother to seek out comprehensive information. In fact, quite a few people still haven't.



Know less than she does about what? Federal legislation? I would imagine the Speaker of the House knows more about pending legislation than just about anyone else, yes.



Yes, clearly the "fog of controversy" is a reference to the page count. Get fucking real.



As in, age remains the determining factor for Medicare eligibility?

It treats small contractors of 5 employees as if they were the size of GM. Meaning the building trade will stay away from hiring anyone with a family due to possible fines.

What fines?

So...

You're saying what she meant when she said that we must pass it for you to know what in it, she meant that what's in it is very clear and you all know exactly what's in it so I don't need to expain it further? Now, excuse me so I can close the door on the back room and creat the rest of this thing.

What planet are you from?

Wha planet? The planet spintonyia. wonderful place if you can keep from acting like a drunk

 

[Greenbeard]

You're saying what she meant when she said that we must pass it for you to know what in it, she meant that what's in it is very clear and you all know exactly what's in it so I don't need to expain it further? Now, excuse me so I can close the door on the back room and creat the rest of this thing.

What planet are you from?

To review what happened: the House passed its bill last November and the Senate passed its bill last December. Normally differences between the bills would be resolved in a conference committee and then a final bill would be passed in both chambers. The election of Scott Brown at the beginning of this year made it impossible to pass any new bills through the Senate because you can't get cloture with 59 votes. Thus the Senate's bill, passed last Christmas eve, became the health care bill. The House, in exchange for passing the Senate's bill unaltered, passed a reconciliation bill that could proceed to a vote without being subject to a filibuster. The reconciliation bill contained the only changes to the Senate's legislation, was relatively short, and by rule could only contain changes affecting the budget: so the value of the tax credits was increased, the FMAP provisions were altered, the excise tax was delayed but the cap was altered to grow more slowly, etc.

So what you had was the main piece of legislation--the ACA--sitting there unaltered since the Senate passed it in December. The much shorter reconciliation bill, within which virtually every change to the ACA was drawn either from the House's bill passed in November or variations of the proposals offered by the President just before and just after the bipartisan summit earlier this year, was released in March a few days before the final vote. There weren't any surprises in it.

So the idea that Pelosi was still "creating" the ACA in March of this year is silly--the law didn't even come from her chamber, the House was forced to pass the Senate bill as it was reported. The only thing the House got to do was change some of the numbers in the Senate's bill to more closely reflect the numbers in the House's bill. And yes, the text of the ACA as passed by the Senate had been available for several months by the time she made her remarks to NACo.

I assume there were threads here on all this as it was happening.

 

[Avorysuds]

As far as I remember any Democrat that was given the opportunity to defend the Bill in an interview usually got stuck on the simple questions because they didn't know much if anything that was in the bill.. I remember Obama even had his chance and failed miserably... So no, I don't they had a clue before and the only reason they found out after is because the Bill had so much crap in it that it was making the news on near a daily basis.

If congress knew what was in it then they purposely fucked it up about as bad as humanly possible.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

You're saying what she meant when she said that we must pass it for you to know what in it, she meant that what's in it is very clear and you all know exactly what's in it so I don't need to expain it further? Now, excuse me so I can close the door on the back room and creat the rest of this thing.

What planet are you from?

To review what happened: the House passed its bill last November and the Senate passed its bill last December. Normally differences between the bills would be resolved in a conference committee and then a final bill would be passed in both chambers. The election of Scott Brown at the beginning of this year made it impossible to pass any new bills through the Senate because you can't get cloture with 59 votes. Thus the Senate's bill, passed last Christmas eve, became the health care bill. The House, in exchange for passing the Senate's bill unaltered, passed a reconciliation bill that could proceed to a vote without being subject to a filibuster. The reconciliation bill contained the only changes to the Senate's legislation, was relatively short, and by rule could only contain changes affecting the budget: so the value of the tax credits was increased, the FMAP provisions were altered, the excise tax was delayed but the cap was altered to grow more slowly, etc.

So what you had was the main piece of legislation--the ACA--sitting there unaltered since the Senate passed it in December. The much shorter reconciliation bill, within which virtually every change to the ACA was drawn either from the House's bill passed in November or variations of the proposals offered by the President just before and just after the bipartisan summit earlier this year, was released in March a few days before the final vote. There weren't any surprises in it.

So the idea that Pelosi was still "creating" the ACA in March of this year is silly--the law didn't even come from her chamber, the House was forced to pass the Senate bill as it was reported. The only thing the House got to do was change some of the numbers in the Senate's bill to more closely reflect the numbers in the House's bill. And yes, the text of the ACA as passed by the Senate had been available for several months by the time she made her remarks to NACo.

I assume there were threads here on all this as it was happening.

You are assuming to much. This thread has nothing to do with the fact that she said it. It's dealing with why she said it.
Was she saying Congress knew what was in the bill and until it was passed no one outside of Congress could see what was in the bill
or was she saying we do not know whats in the bill but we are going to pass it anyway
Stupid or arrogance.
And you are missing the mark so badly I really feel sorry for you.

But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.
Take your pick